NickJ Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 Deja vu http://www.southwestbusiness.co.uk/news/24102013085511-what-went-wrong-at-bristol-city-football-club-/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tall King Blox Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 dunno, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MigratedRobin Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 Wow! That was an intense read, Pretty accurate though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southvillekiddy Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 Confusion at the top. Enough said. If true the article explains a lot about what happened with Coppell, our only "name" manager so far. Why not study and follow how leading Premiership Clubs organise and conduct their affairs if that is where the owner truly wants us to be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 I mean that is a good read and on the money, but we're hardly at that stage again are we? A lot would need to go downhill to reach that place again any time soon. Definite differences now IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midlands Robin Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 Interesting take on Coppells departure. Not the hearts not in it version we've seen many times before. Long contracts and higher wages. Hmmm now where have we heard that before in our history? The main thrust of the article is highly critical of SL and the board. It makes you wonder how they reconcile throwing in good money after bad against their own poor management of the club from the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 As a student, I find it weird to make claims without referencing your sources. Who wrote this article and is it factual? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivorguy Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 As a graduate seems pretty accurate to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 9 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said: As a student, I find it weird to make claims without referencing your sources. Who wrote this article and is it factual? 5 minutes ago, Ivorguy said: As a graduate seems pretty accurate to me And as neither I agree with Ivor . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 14 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said: Who wrote this article and is it factual? Andy Stockhausen. Is it accurate? See first answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoldenBall Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 Great read, 2013 was definitely one of the worst years ever following City for me.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 17 minutes ago, Ivorguy said: As a graduate seems pretty accurate to me oh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 Obviously a lot of these issues are the reason why we're trying to promote the academy and not pay over the odds for players and wages. Given the basis of the article was "the manager was hamstrung due to the amount of money being spent on wages" and the recent cry has been that Cotterill wasn't allowed to spend over the odds, I think we can safely say it's not really 'deja vu'. I'd also add that this article predicted doom and gloom yet within a year we were top of the league so the article was wrong in that respect. @NickJ What I'm curious about is that not so long ago you posted rather a good article about how important it was the fans, the club, the players and the management stuck together. Yet now every post you make seems to contradict that and seems to be "we must undermine the club at all costs". By anyone's reckoning, we've had a decent week. Two signings have arrived - with a far better pedigree than we might have hoped for - with strong rumours that one or two more will be in by the end of the month. It just might be the fillip we need to turn things around. Maybe it's time to put Cotterill's sacking in the past where it belongs and get behind the team and the temporary manager? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamsober Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 Just shows I interesting this old news is! 393 views - 12 now 13 replies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cider city red 81 Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 WE WILL NEVER KNOW HOW DAMAGING LETTING GO OF NEIL KILKENNY WILL BE. WOULD WE BE IN PREM? IF AND ITS A big if WE COULD HAVE KEPT HIM WOULD WE BEST TEAM? DISCUS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handsofclay Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 3 minutes ago, cider city red 81 said: WE WILL NEVER KNOW HOW DAMAGING LETTING GO OF NEIL KILKENNY WILL BE. WOULD WE BE IN PREM? IF AND ITS A big if WE COULD HAVE KEPT HIM WOULD WE BEST TEAM? DISCUS We would have been even bigger had we not signed him at all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted January 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 25 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said: Obviously a lot of these issues are the reason why we're trying to promote the academy and not pay over the odds for players and wages. Given the basis of the article was "the manager was hamstrung due to the amount of money being spent on wages" and the recent cry has been that Cotterill wasn't allowed to spend over the odds, I think we can safely say it's not really 'deja vu'. I'd also add that this article predicted doom and gloom yet within a year we were top of the league so the article was wrong in that respect. @NickJ What I'm curious about is that not so long ago you posted rather a good article about how important it was the fans, the club, the players and the management stuck together. Yet now every post you make seems to contradict that and seems to be "we must undermine the club at all costs". By anyone's reckoning, we've had a decent week. Two signings have arrived - with a far better pedigree than we might have hoped for - with strong rumours that one or two more will be in by the end of the month. It just might be the fillip we need to turn things around. Maybe it's time to put Cotterill's sacking in the past where it belongs and get behind the team and the temporary manager? Yes I did write a good article thanks and to my surprise - given the negativity on here towards the manager at the time - it was "liked" by 60 odd people. Shame the club saw fit to sack the manager within a few days of that, particularly as at around the same time a - shall we say - privileged person who may or may not be connected with the club started a thread which included a comment extolling the virtues of said manager. Anyway, apart from that just about everything else in your post is incorrect. I haven't mentioned Cotterill so why do you. There is a difference between "undermining" the board and questioning what has happened and what is going on. Whether or not we have had a decent week and signed players with unexpected pedigree is an opinion and remains to be seen, but of course I hope you are right. And the reference to deja vu was the apparent similarities in the failing of the board to 3 years ago, not a reference to any particular manger. Sorry if you don't like it but that's how it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 1 hour ago, NickJ said: Deja vu http://www.southwestbusiness.co.uk/news/24102013085511-what-went-wrong-at-bristol-city-football-club-/ Surprised you've not dragged that article out before Nick...it pretty much confirms what a few of us have been saying for years. It's the structure and not the managers that have been at fault in the main. Hence why I've always said managers would always struggle here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Exile Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 1 hour ago, exAtyeoMax said: As a student, I find it weird to make claims without referencing your sources. Who wrote this article and is it factual? I asked myself the same question (as a current - rather mature - student and a graduate!) I'm not sure I've ever seen the tale of those years laid out quite so definitively. So for me the first question is is this accurate, and second, who wrote it…cos it's not stated in the article unless I missed something. Of course, someone must know what actually happened when Coppell left and this could all be true. Despite having met SL a couple of times since I've always been too polite to ask! But is this the inside story, or just speculation? As it is it repeats much that was said on here at the time and since about the real failure at Bristol City…namely the failure of the people in charge to make the most of the assets at their disposal. As I recall NickJ is one of the relatively few people to consistently question the Lansdowns' stewardship of the club, through the good years and bad. I don't happen to think that's undermining the club or inconsistent with supporting the team…I'd see as shining a light on the area which mosts needs attention. In the absence of any local journalism that will do the same long may that continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 30 minutes ago, Red Exile said: I asked myself the same question (as a current - rather mature - student and a graduate!) I'm not sure I've ever seen the tale of those years laid out quite so definitively. So for me the first question is is this accurate, and second, who wrote it…cos it's not stated in the article unless I missed something. Of course, someone must know what actually happened when Coppell left and this could all be true. Despite having met SL a couple of times since I've always been too polite to ask! But is this the inside story, or just speculation? As it is it repeats much that was said on here at the time and since about the real failure at Bristol City…namely the failure of the people in charge to make the most of the assets at their disposal. As I recall NickJ is one of the relatively few people to consistently question the Lansdowns' stewardship of the club, through the good years and bad. I don't happen to think that's undermining the club or inconsistent with supporting the team…I'd see as shining a light on the area which mosts needs attention. In the absence of any local journalism that will do the same long may that continue. It's written exactly how I've seen it and been told...it backs up many things Nick, myself and a few others have said in the past. It's a few years old,,,and I don't know who the author is...but if it were wrong surely the Club would have challenged it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 I would think the club would steer clear of any such thing Spud; hiding to nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 4 minutes ago, spudski said: It's written exactly how I've seen it and been told...it backs up many things Nick, myself and a few others have said in the past. It's a few years old,,,and I don't know who the author is...but if it were wrong surely the Club would have challenged it? Not necessarily, it's not exactly 'wrong' but possibly missing a few 'allegedly' or 'possibly' to qualify the statements, especially those regarding Coppell. Does the author know for a fact that is the reason why Coppell left or is it their opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiled Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 I'm not entirely convinced by that article. I agree with @exAtyeoMax that for some of the stronger statements to actually hold water, they need references to some extent. Unfortunately, football being the closed shop that it is, an awful lot of what is done and said goes unreported. If the figures and transfer dealings are accurate then I would actually applaud the board for not repeating the mistakes of the past. They've clearly seen the folly of recruiting one player on 20k per week and the upward pressure that it puts on the entire wage bill. Since the end of last season, we have been conditioned to the idea that we will not have a big budget in the Championship and we will not break the wage structure for new signings. You can debate the merits of it (at present, it could be seen as a flawed model) but you cannot accuse the club of repeating the mistakes of signing players in the David James category. Equally, in these few short interim years since the article was written, the club has taken an entirely new direction with the redevelopment of Ashton Gate. So the distraction and waste of money at Ashton Vale is now history. The strategy will now focus on maximising non-matchday revenue and selling season tickets. Again, a very clear difference. And finally, my opinion of all of this season's terrible "misery". There are 92 English league clubs. 9 teams from that group are promoted each season. 1 team wins the FA Cup, A handful play in Europe and 1 team will be Premier League champions. That isn't a whole lot of success to share around. We had an amazing season in 2014/15, it's not realistic to expect equivalent or greater success the following year. The recent signings look very strong on paper. We clearly aren't going down without a fight. I actually think the board of BCFC have learnt a lot since the article was written but this season more than any I can remember we have lost a lot of games by a narrow margin against the run of play. It could be argued that we have been unlucky. That's the difference between mid-table and third from bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 Er I wasn't joking. This is a Stockhausen article that was originally published in The Post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 5 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said: Not necessarily, it's not exactly 'wrong' but possibly missing a few 'allegedly' or 'possibly' to qualify the statements, especially those regarding Coppell. Does the author know for a fact that is the reason why Coppell left or is it their opinion? It's exactly how I see it....I've not so much 'knowledge' on DM's time...but GJ, SC, KM and SoD.... You can go right back to when they left to see posts I put up regarding 'problems' at the club. Maybe the 'Author' has similar 'knowledge' but can't reveal sources...as many journalists don't. 3 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said: Er I wasn't joking. This is a Stockhausen article that was originally published in The Post. Wouldn't you agree its mainly correct though fella? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 1 minute ago, spudski said: Wouldn't you agree its mainly correct though fella? Yep, and I bet I know exactly who the disgruntled ex employee he spoke to was, who clearly informs this article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Dawe Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 14 minutes ago, Xiled said: I'm not entirely convinced by that article. I agree with @exAtyeoMax that for some of the stronger statements to actually hold water, they need references to some extent. Unfortunately, football being the closed shop that it is, an awful lot of what is done and said goes unreported. If the figures and transfer dealings are accurate then I would actually applaud the board for not repeating the mistakes of the past. They've clearly seen the folly of recruiting one player on 20k per week and the upward pressure that it puts on the entire wage bill. Since the end of last season, we have been conditioned to the idea that we will not have a big budget in the Championship and we will not break the wage structure for new signings. You can debate the merits of it (at present, it could be seen as a flawed model) but you cannot accuse the club of repeating the mistakes of signing players in the David James category. Equally, in these few short interim years since the article was written, the club has taken an entirely new direction with the redevelopment of Ashton Gate. So the distraction and waste of money at Ashton Vale is now history. The strategy will now focus on maximising non-matchday revenue and selling season tickets. Again, a very clear difference. And finally, my opinion of all of this season's terrible "misery". There are 92 English league clubs. 9 teams from that group are promoted each season. 1 team wins the FA Cup, A handful play in Europe and 1 team will be Premier League champions. That isn't a whole lot of success to share around. We had an amazing season in 2014/15, it's not realistic to expect equivalent or greater success the following year. The recent signings look very strong on paper. We clearly aren't going down without a fight. I actually think the board of BCFC have learnt a lot since the article was written but this season more than any I can remember we have lost a lot of games by a narrow margin against the run of play. It could be argued that we have been unlucky. That's the difference between mid-table and third from bottom. I think our goal difference indicates we have not been unlucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 19 minutes ago, Xiled said: I'm not entirely convinced by that article. I agree with @exAtyeoMax that for some of the stronger statements to actually hold water, they need references to some extent. Unfortunately, football being the closed shop that it is, an awful lot of what is done and said goes unreported. If the figures and transfer dealings are accurate then I would actually applaud the board for not repeating the mistakes of the past. They've clearly seen the folly of recruiting one player on 20k per week and the upward pressure that it puts on the entire wage bill. Since the end of last season, we have been conditioned to the idea that we will not have a big budget in the Championship and we will not break the wage structure for new signings. You can debate the merits of it (at present, it could be seen as a flawed model) but you cannot accuse the club of repeating the mistakes of signing players in the David James category. Equally, in these few short interim years since the article was written, the club has taken an entirely new direction with the redevelopment of Ashton Gate. So the distraction and waste of money at Ashton Vale is now history. The strategy will now focus on maximising non-matchday revenue and selling season tickets. Again, a very clear difference. And finally, my opinion of all of this season's terrible "misery". There are 92 English league clubs. 9 teams from that group are promoted each season. 1 team wins the FA Cup, A handful play in Europe and 1 team will be Premier League champions. That isn't a whole lot of success to share around. We had an amazing season in 2014/15, it's not realistic to expect equivalent or greater success the following year. The recent signings look very strong on paper. We clearly aren't going down without a fight. I actually think the board of BCFC have learnt a lot since the article was written but this season more than any I can remember we have lost a lot of games by a narrow margin against the run of play. It could be argued that we have been unlucky. That's the difference between mid-table and third from bottom. The difference between being mid table and third from bottom, is down to our disaster of a summer recruiting, the reasons surrounding that, and a manager that refused to change his system. All those 'problems'...revolve around 'poor management' from both board, manager and dof. How anyone can condone and excuse what happened over the summer is beyond me. We shoot ourselves in the foot year in year out...yet there are always some fans that will say it's bad luck. Blinkered to say the least...either don't want to believe it...or can't see the wood for the trees. If we were Crewe or S****horpe...I'd get it...but we are not...we've thrown money at short term fix's, have had no structure...managers don't have a clue as to who does what at the club. Then you get managers that try to work it the best they can in there own way. Dof's and 'Accountants' get put in place and they don't sing from the same hymn sheet. Board members allegedly not seeing eye to eye or agreeing on things. 'People' feeling betrayed. It's like a bloody soap opera down there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 3 minutes ago, spudski said: The difference between being mid table and third from bottom, is down to our disaster of a summer recruiting, the reasons surrounding that, and a manager that refused to change his system. All those 'problems'...revolve around 'poor management' from both board, manager and dof. How anyone can condone and excuse what happened over the summer is beyond me. We shoot ourselves in the foot year in year out...yet there are always some fans that will say it's bad luck. Blinkered to say the least...either don't want to believe it...or can't see the wood for the trees. If we were Crewe or S****horpe...I'd get it...but we are not...we've thrown money at short term fix's, have had no structure...managers don't have a clue as to who does what at the club. Then you get managers that try to work it the best they can in there own way. Dof's and 'Accountants' get put in place and they don't sing from the same hymn sheet. Board members allegedly not seeing eye to eye or agreeing on things. 'People' feeling betrayed. It's like a bloody soap opera down there. I just hope that Mark Ashton is flexible enough when appointing the new manager/coach, and doesn't stick too rigidly to corporate ideas of DNA etc. I understand the need for someone who fits into the structure of the club but we also need someone who knows how to manage a football team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted January 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 9 minutes ago, spudski said: ...managers don't have a clue as to who does what at the club. I've never spoken to a manager but I have been told the same or similar by many others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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