Steve Cotterill

[spudski]

apologies for the last list...this forum has never been right since the update...can't even remove it in edit.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

2 minutes ago, spudski said:

Apologies EMB...I was looking at the whole conversation, not just the quote. You mentioned success a couple of times in your previous quote.

Likewise in your quote about Jose and LVG about SC not being as stubborn...and 'you're joking right?'...the poster you answered to, never mentioned either of those managers or being as stubborn as....see where i'm going there?

 

You say SL should have acted quicker...how do you know he didn't want to, but circumstances wouldn't allow it? You're making a lot of presumptions considering you don't know the facts.

Also...who has said SC is unique in his stubbornness? No one.

Not sure why you are knocking LVG either...have you looked at his win rate for Man Utd and previous clubs? Not bad eh?

Ajax	28 September 1991	30 June 1997	7002285000000000000♠285	7002196000000000000♠196	7001490000000000000♠49	7001400000000000000♠40	7001687700000000000♠68.77
Barcelona	1 July 1997	20 May 2000[94]	7002171000000000000♠171	7001950000000000000♠95	7001320000000000000♠32	7001440000000000000♠44	7001555600000000000♠55.56
Netherlands	3 July 2000[95]	1 February 2002[96]	7001150000000000000♠15	7000800000000000000♠8	7000400000000000000♠4	7000300000000000000♠3	7001533300000000000♠53.33
Barcelona	1 July 2002[97]	28 January 2003[98]	7001300000000000000♠30	7001160000000000000♠16	7000500000000000000♠5	7000900000000000000♠9	7001533300000000000♠53.33
AZ Alkmaar	1 July 2005	30 June 2009	7002176000000000000♠176	7002102000000000000♠102	7001380000000000000♠38	7001360000000000000♠36	7001579500000000000♠57.95
Bayern Munich	1 July 2009[26]	10 April 2011[43]	7001960000000000000♠96	7001590000000000000♠59	7001180000000000000♠18	7001190000000000000♠19	7001614600000000000♠61.46	[99]
Netherlands	6 July 2012[44]	12 July 2014[52]	7001280000000000000♠28	7001170000000000000♠17	7000900000000000000♠9	7000200000000000000♠2	7001607100000000000♠60.71
Manchester United	16 July 2014[54]	Present	7001920000000000000♠92	7001460000000000000♠46	7001240000000000000♠24	7001220000000000000♠22	7001500000000000000♠50.00
Total			7002877000000000000♠877	7002528000000000000♠528	7002178000000000000♠178	7002171000000000000♠            171	7001602100000000000♠60.21

What possible circumstances could have stopped the owner sacking a non compliant employee?.

I suggest you actually watch Manu because they are dire to watch, they are boring beyond belief, Manu fans have been brought up on attacking football and raining shots on target in games, not just 1 or 2 in 4 home games, in December his stats in all areas were worse than Moyes and 2 wins in 10 euro games in 2 competitions all season?.

[BigAl&Toby]

51 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

and guess what all were eventually sacked because of stubbornness.

I'm sure you're right.

But tell me. Who was most stubborn? In terms of who was sacked after the shortest period of time? Was it SC? Just guessing. Or asking.

The bloke did well. Last season. This year he was rubbish - hence my earlier comment about not looking out of plasm on the Downs. Or anywhere. As long as it's not BS3. He lost the plot months before he was sacked and I for one was bloody delighted he went. Bloody delighted too for all he did last season but not for this.

[spudski]

2 hours ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

What possible circumstances could have stopped the owner sacking a non compliant employee?.

I suggest you actually watch Manu because they are dire to watch, they are boring beyond belief, Manu fans have been brought up on attacking football and raining shots on target in games, not just 1 or 2 in 4 home games, in December his stats in all areas were worse than Moyes and 2 wins in 10 euro games in 2 competitions all season?.

So who's fault is that...LVG's or the people who employed him?

He has a 50% win record with Man Utd...and a 62% win rate across all his clubs...that is an astonishing stat.

You maybe right about shots etc...but having spent a few years watching Man Utd as a season ticket holder through business...I will tell you from first hand experience, Man Utd fans moan at bloody everything...even when they are being entertained and winning cups.

Be careful what you wish for EMB...you say in one breath you want success in your lifetime...that could quiet easily be watching us in the Prem.

It's not it's all cracked up to be.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

12 hours ago, BigAlToby&Liam said:

I'm sure you're right.

But tell me. Who was most stubborn? In terms of who was sacked after the shortest period of time? Was it SC? Just guessing. Or asking.

The bloke did well. Last season. This year he was rubbish - hence my earlier comment about not looking out of plasm on the Downs. Or anywhere. As long as it's not BS3. He lost the plot months before he was sacked and I for one was bloody delighted he went. Bloody delighted too for all he did last season but not for this.

The highlighted portion is the sort of question I would expect from to young arguing grandchildren. it is not a competition about who is more stubborn, but I will make a small wager that when LJ is eventually shown the door (whenever that maybe) the word stubborn will be uttered in relation to him.

The rest of the paragraph is interesting because the average shelf life of football league managers is now 1.23 years down from 2 years, so it could be argued that for all of his expected shelf life he was a success, but of course that's a very silly argument isn't it? almost as silly as saying forget all BCFC history and only live for today and tomorrow.

 

 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

10 hours ago, spudski said:

So who's fault is that...LVG's or the people who employed him?

He has a 50% win record with Man Utd...and a 62% win rate across all his clubs...that is an astonishing stat.

You maybe right about shots etc...but having spent a few years watching Man Utd as a season ticket holder through business...I will tell you from first hand experience, Man Utd fans moan at bloody everything...even when they are being entertained and winning cups.

Be careful what you wish for EMB...you say in one breath you want success in your lifetime...that could quiet easily be watching us in the Prem.

It's not it's all cracked up to be.

At most clubs it is an astonishing stat, at Manu it's worse than mediocre and i'm sure the fans would buy into the transition claim but given the amount he has spent a lot of it on dross and the tedious football his team are serving up and the fact that he will not change to a more recognisable Manu and his interviews after home games without a single shot on goal where he is claiming that things are improving doesn't wash with the fans. Whose fault is it?, that's a tough one because he has a remarkable record as a coach but I believe that his ego has led him to try to change too much to quickly and now the stubbornness of claiming that things are improving when they are clearly not is there for all to see, i'm not saying he is not a great coach I am saying that it hasn't worked at Manu.

Most fans at prem clubs moan at everything Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea especially are great examples of that.

As for the last 2 sentences you won't get an argument from me over either statement, I just want to see our club improving and competing and not feel miserable after another home defeat, it ***** my weekend up and if we lose in midweek it ***** my whole week up, I have always been like that. But of course prem life can be ok if it's done right, Leicester, WBA, Stoke, Palace, Bournemouth, Swansea, Southampton and Watford have proved that this season and it's been a breath of fresh air to be honest, but hey i'm under no illusions about the prem.

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

14 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

The word 'legend' is so mis-used in my opinion...a manager who got us promoted from div 3 then struggled like mad in div 2 will never warrant 'legendary status' in my view - but that's just my view.

 

I agree and that shows how mediocre our club is when winning the league one title and JPT trophy would deem the manager a 'legend'.

 

[cidered abroad]

14 hours ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Agree to disagree, but yes TC is absolute legend, him Fred Ford, Alan Dicks, GJ and SC are my management legends during my time of support.

The highlighted portion is just wrong, because nobody has delivered a championship in your time or in mine and I suspect I go back a fair bit further than you, anyway the development of this thread wasn't originally about legend status it was about ignorant statements from 2 posters.

 

Perhaps Pat Beasley should be awarded "Legend" status for winning our only other post second world war title?

And if we go back further, then all those who won titles in our first fifty years of existence?

In my opinion and in my lifetime, the only City manager that deserves legend status is Terry Cooper because he never, as far as I know, did anything detrimental to the Club and Supporters.

Whereas AD and GJ achieved but let themselves down with actions that dragged us down for a long time.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

58 minutes ago, Dark Wood Covert said:

I agree and that shows how mediocre our club is when winning the league one title and JPT trophy would deem the manager a 'legend'.

 

I agree but BCFC is what it is, name another manager who has done the above for BCFC in your lifetime?.

PS:- A manager who can serve up my favourite season ever in my 58 years of support, is a legend IMO, the only season where I never felt stressed once and the win at Bradford after the 4th goal went in I couldn't stop laughing, the laughter and the broad smile and pride lasted well into the summer.

 

[EstoniaTallinnRed]

19 hours ago, glynriley said:

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting coversation gents, but we had Simon Cox on loan, not Church!!

Quite right, how stupid of us!

[BigAl&Toby]

3 hours ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

The highlighted portion is the sort of question I would expect from to young arguing grandchildren. it is not a competition about who is more stubborn, but I will make a small wager that when LJ is eventually shown the door (whenever that maybe) the word stubborn will be uttered in relation to him.

The rest of the paragraph is interesting because the average shelf life of football league managers is now 1.23 years down from 2 years, so it could be argued that for all of his expected shelf life he was a success, but of course that's a very silly argument isn't it? almost as silly as saying forget all BCFC history and only live for today and tomorrow.

 

 

Grampy, can you explain to me what from to young means?

Can we have an Easter egg hunt?

And who was the stubbornest? 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Dark Wood Covert said:

I agree and that shows how mediocre our club is when winning the league one title and JPT trophy would deem the manager a 'legend'.

 

It's all about context and you're right it shows our mediocrity. However if you ignore context GJ is no legend at Yeovil for instance. And that's ludicrous. 

[Ivorguy]

Esmond Million's Bung suggests Fred Ford is a legend.

Now I really have lost the will to live

[mcheneyred]

The one thing above all that I would like to say about SC is that, win or lose, he got the team to play in such a way that they really aimed to entertain. These last two seasons have been really enjoyable...even when struggling this season the team seems to me to have made a visible growth in terms of fluent football. Yes there has been a level of naivety when playing against better teams, but it has been obvious that the Championship has also moved on and improved since we were last in it.

The trouble in the end was that his mindset did not adapt enough tactically. His system was too rigid, but give the team their due they generally came out and played some entertaining stuff even at the bottom of the league, responding to what he wanted them to do, playing for the man who took them up. That loyalty showed through in the first game after he was sacked...Flint did not celebrate his winning goal against Middlesbrough and looked to be very upset by SC's departure. It would be interesting to know if JP and Wade had had conversations with SC about what they thought was needed and implemented once he had gone.

Anyway, its been great to see us playing some of the most entertaining football that I've seen in the fifty four years that Ive been supporting city.  

[Esmond Million's Bung]

19 hours ago, Ivorguy said:

Esmond Million's Bung suggests Fred Ford is a legend.

Now I really have lost the will to live

You really are quite ignorant at times, he is a legend for 'ME' because as a very young Bedminster lad he gave me my very first experience of the excitement of a promotion and one that an ageing John Atyeo (remember him from your earlier stupid post?) craved at the twilight of his career. I am extremely aware of all of Fred Ford's failings as a manager but that promotion not only came out of blue but nearly led to another the season after.

Hold onto the will to live it's quite important, but it's not all about you, some people have different views for very different reasons.

[glynriley]

Just watching Soccer Special on Sky. Interviewed Jeff Stelling who is doing a charity walk from Hartlepool to Wembley for prostate cancer. Said Steve Cotterill rang him yesterday to donate his fees for recent studio apperances to the charity.

No doubt the more cynical will say he can afford it, but fair play Cotts.

[AshtonGreat]

On 26/03/2016 at 11:42, Dark Wood Covert said:

I agree and that shows how mediocre our club is when winning the league one title and JPT trophy would deem the manager a 'legend'.

 

There are some out there who call Louis Carey a legend!

[BigTone]

On ‎25‎/‎03‎/‎2016 at 20:54, spudski said:

Apologies EMB...I was looking at the whole conversation, not just the quote. You mentioned success a couple of times in your previous quote.

Likewise in your quote about Jose and LVG about SC not being as stubborn...and 'you're joking right?'...the poster you answered to, never mentioned either of those managers or being as stubborn as....see where i'm going there?

 

You say SL should have acted quicker...how do you know he didn't want to, but circumstances wouldn't allow it? You're making a lot of presumptions considering you don't know the facts.

Also...who has said SC is unique in his stubbornness? No one.

Not sure why you are knocking LVG either...have you looked at his win rate for Man Utd and previous clubs?

Ajax	28 September 1991	30 June 1997	7002285000000000000♠285	7002196000000000000♠196	7001490000000000000♠49	7001400000000000000♠40	7001687700000000000♠68.77
Barcelona	1 July 1997	20 May 2000[94]	7002171000000000000♠171	7001950000000000000♠95	7001320000000000000♠32	7001440000000000000♠44	7001555600000000000♠55.56
Netherlands	3 July 2000[95]	1 February 2002[96]	7001150000000000000♠15	7000800000000000000♠8	7000400000000000000♠4	7000300000000000000♠3	7001533300000000000♠53.33
Barcelona	1 July 2002[97]	28 January 2003[98]	7001300000000000000♠30	7001160000000000000♠16	7000500000000000000♠5	7000900000000000000♠9	7001533300000000000♠53.33
AZ Alkmaar	1 July 2005	30 June 2009	7002176000000000000♠176	7002102000000000000♠102	7001380000000000000♠38	7001360000000000000♠36	7001579500000000000♠57.95
Bayern Munich	1 July 2009[26]	10 April 2011[43]	7001960000000000000♠96	7001590000000000000♠59	7001180000000000000♠18	7001190000000000000♠19	7001614600000000000♠61.46	[99]
Netherlands	6 July 2012[44]	12 July 2014[52]	7001280000000000000♠28	7001170000000000000♠17	7000900000000000000♠9	7000200000000000000♠2	7001607100000000000♠60.71
Manchester United	16 July 2014[54]	Present	7001920000000000000♠92	7001460000000000000♠46	7001240000000000000♠24	7001220000000000000♠22	7001500000000000000♠50.00
Total			7002877000000000000♠877	7002528000000000000♠528	7002178000000000000♠178	7002171000000000000♠            171	7001602100000000000♠60.21

Yes, I see it all adds up now

[Ivorguy]

I am really sorry to repeat myself but if Fred Ford is a legend then as a club we really have been going nowhere. Dark Wood Covert has it spot on.

Let me give you a genuine legend, Billy Wedlock - would give anything to have seen him play.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Ivorguy said:

I am really sorry to repeat myself but if Fred Ford is a legend then as a club we really have been going nowhere. Dark Wood Covert has it spot on.

Let me give you a genuine legend, Billy Wedlock - would give anything to have seen him play.

Heard the name but he wasn't as good as 'South'. 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

14 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

I am really sorry to repeat myself but if Fred Ford is a legend then as a club we really have been going nowhere. Dark Wood Covert has it spot on.

Let me give you a genuine legend, Billy Wedlock - would give anything to have seen him play.

OK Mr arbiter of legends, he's a legend to me for the reason that I mentioned.

 

[BS4 on Tour...]

4 hours ago, AshtonGreat said:

There are some out there who call Louis Carey a legend!

Any reason you wouldn't agree given his record with the club?

[Drew Peacock]

9 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Any reason you wouldn't agree given his record with the club?

He's got a big nose.

[cidered abroad]

18 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

OK Mr arbiter of legends, he's a legend to me for the reason that I mentioned.

 

Fred Ford was a very good manager and a gentleman in the truest sense of the word. As a teenager I would travel to away matches by train and often sat with him and other fans.

One trip to Southend for a Monday night was spent chatting football all the way to Paddington. He suggested that as I was on holiday that week, on arrival in London, I should go to White Hart Lane and get a ticket for the Wednesday when Spurs were playing Gornik in the second leg of a European Cup tie.

On arrival at the Spurs ticket office, wearing my red and white scarf, I asked to buy a ticket only to be told that all were sold. I must have looked so disappointed, the guy behind the counter asked which team I supported and so I told him of my journey that morning with Fred Ford. His reply was "Fred Ford Bristol City manager?" Yes. I replied to which he said Wait there and a few seconds later came back with a complimentary for the "Shelf" a well known and vociferous part of the ground.

City lost 0-1 at Southend in Third Division but two days later I was in over 60,000 when Spurs overturned a 1-3 1st leg deficit with a massive 8-1. What a night watching Blanchflower, John White, Bobby Smith and all the others from the Spurs double winning team of 1961.

So good memories of Fred Ford.

[AshtonGreat]

17 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Any reason you wouldn't agree given his record with the club?

Personally I think you need to have won stuff to be considered a legend, not just played a lot of games. Mind you, if you go by that criteria, City would have very few legends...

[BS4 on Tour...]

1 minute ago, AshtonGreat said:

Personally I think you need to have won stuff to be considered a legend, not just played a lot of games. Mind you, if you go by that criteria, City would have very few legends...

Fair enough, respect your opinion.

I just think the record appearance holder deserves that status when the total is as many games as Louis played.

I don't think winning stuff is the right criteria...Beryl Fudge didn't anything but she was a real City legend to me.

 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

8 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

Fred Ford was a very good manager and a gentleman in the truest sense of the word. As a teenager I would travel to away matches by train and often sat with him and other fans.

One trip to Southend for a Monday night was spent chatting football all the way to Paddington. He suggested that as I was on holiday that week, on arrival in London, I should go to White Hart Lane and get a ticket for the Wednesday when Spurs were playing Gornik in the second leg of a European Cup tie.

On arrival at the Spurs ticket office, wearing my red and white scarf, I asked to buy a ticket only to be told that all were sold. I must have looked so disappointed, the guy behind the counter asked which team I supported and so I told him of my journey that morning with Fred Ford. His reply was "Fred Ford Bristol City manager?" Yes. I replied to which he said Wait there and a few seconds later came back with a complimentary for the "Shelf" a well known and vociferous part of the ground.

City lost 0-1 at Southend in Third Division but two days later I was in over 60,000 when Spurs overturned a 1-3 1st leg deficit with a massive 8-1. What a night watching Blanchflower, John White, Bobby Smith and all the others from the Spurs double winning team of 1961.

So good memories of Fred Ford.

Thank you, that is a fantastic story that encapsulates the difference between football then and now.

Fred was everything that you describe, he was one a hard task master as a coach but he was a really nice guy, perhaps to nice he was very nervous in the transfer market and often refused to dip into the market even after Harry Dolman gave him the green light, in the early 60's Fred was told by HD to go out and get Mike Summerbee and Ernie Hunt from Swindon both were young but talented, Fred never moved and Summerbee went to Man City and Hunt went to Wolves about 18 months later, Harry never really got over that.

[AshtonGreat]

10 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Fair enough, respect your opinion.

I just think the record appearance holder deserves that status when the total is as many games as Louis played.

I don't think winning stuff is the right criteria...Beryl Fudge didn't anything but she was a real City legend to me.

 

Yeah i don't really know what the criteria should be. I would consider Bob Taylor a City legend, even though he didn't play many games and didn't win a lot either. Maybe that's just it - Superbob is connected to nothing but good memories; Louis Carey contributed to some dire seasons as well as good ones

[shelts]

Great achievement by SC for sure will go down as one of our better recent managers. Not a legend by any stretch of the imagination. The use of the word legend is banded around these days a little too easy.  Plenty of City legends mind. Ayteo at the top of the tree by a country mile. 

[BS4 on Tour...]

13 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

Yeah i don't really know what the criteria should be. I would consider Bob Taylor a City legend, even though he didn't play many games and didn't win a lot either. Maybe that's just it - Superbob is connected to nothing but good memories; Louis Carey contributed to some dire seasons as well as good ones

Yep, I think all of us have our own individual City 'legends' and no two lists will ever be the same...