Jack Dawe Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 ....that without the omnishambles (compared to our unishambles last summer to Jan 16) that is Bolton and Charlton, we would be in deep trouble still? Is this all water-under-the-bridge now and counterproductive looking at it this way (the problems have been addressed here) or are we sweeping it under the carpet and ignoring what has really, or also, saved us this season? Only, I'm looking at the table and with two games to go, and below us in the table there is only: Fulham - a mess all season, and last; turmoil behind the scenes, new owner, mounting debts etc etc. MK Dons - Championship novices, low budget Charlton - total and utter shambles Bolton - decent players but huge, debilitating off-field problems As well as LJ Pembo and the players have done, where would we be without a couple of clubs in crisis and novice minnows MK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 And if he had tits, my uncle would be my Aunty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibs Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 We've got 49 points with 2 games to go, that would be enough to keep you up more often than not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Most seasons there are clubs in a mess in this division. Quite frankly for the majority of the season we have been a mess and I'd argue that as the season began back in August at Sheff Wed we were probably in just as much turmoil as a Bolton or Charlton in that we'd spectacularly failed in the transfer market and were unable to fill a bench. SC was all-but slagging off the board in his post-match interview, and already looked a beaten man. Behind the scenes we were a shambles, it just wasn't as well publicised as the other clubs. We also do have one of the smallest budgets in this division, which will hopefully change next season. We're 20th at the moment but are within 3 points of teams up to 15th position: Rotherham, Blackburn, Forest, Hudds, and Reading. We could yet finish above a few of those. Our average crowd this season is 17th in this division - I predict next season we'll be in the top half of the division in terms of average crowd. We were a club in crisis for the first half of the season, albeit a different kind of crisis to the ones you mention. We shouldn't forget that, and make sure it doesn't bloody happen again for the start of next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 This seasons problems for City stemmed from a combination of last summers transfer fiasco and Cotterills stubborness with refusing to change formation. After he was dismissed thing improved initially with Pembo/Elliot and the with the appointment of LJ. Off the pitch the appointment of Mr Charisma has already made a difference and his skills and experience along with LJs skills will ensure that we don't see a repeat of last summer. No doubt this coming summer ins and outs will be fascinating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Next year there will be omnishambles too. Remember, Fulham are in a transfer embargo still and need to restructure, Burton you would imagine are going to struggle (although they may not), Rotherham may be looking for a new manager, Huddersfield may slip between now and then, as may Blackburn. There's plenty of sides you can look at confirmed for next year and think 'we should be aiming to finish above them'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selred Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Two games left, would be silly not to look at the teams just above us. Within 3 points or less above us are; Reading Huddersfield Florist Blackburn Rotherham So we've hardly been just kept up by other clubs, we are right in the mix with 9 clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckeyed Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Its really hard to say what would have happened if Bolton and Charlton had performed better. Logically they would have taken points off the teams around us at the moment and therefore it could have just as likely been them and not us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC_Dan Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 14 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said: MK Dons - Championship novices, low budget This is us. Only we stayed up on merit and they didn't. It doesn't matter what happens at other clubs so long as we finish above enough of them. It'd be naive in the extreme to think we can do nothing and survive again next season but nobody at all thinks that. Everyone recognises that there's another tough summer in prospect and that if it doesn't go significantly better than the last we'll be struggling again next year. There's nothing more to say than that. I don't think it's terribly useful to say we've only survived because other teams were in crisis. Not being in crisis is sort of the basic requirement for staying up and they've failed at that. That's not our problem really. Besides all that, the season isn't over yet. Even if Bolton and Charlton were miraculously somehow 20 points better off than they are we'd still be well-placed to save ourselves, being within 3 points of 5 other clubs with 2 perfectly winnable games to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Points required for safety in the last 8 seasons (latest first) 42 45 55 41 43 48 47 53 Even if we don't get another point, our total would be enough to survive in all but two of those years. So I think we're surviving on merit not through the faults of others per se. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Dawe Posted April 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 20 minutes ago, BCFC_Dan said: This is us. Only we stayed up on merit and they didn't. Anyone else, like Dan, think we are as "novice" in this league as MK Dons? Struggling to see this but otherwise agree with your points Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciderbeans Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 We are where we are due to the shambles of a summer. Unlike the others, we as a club are in a good place. If we can have a productive summer this year, we will definately be competitive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Let's not forget that we dropped 2 points against all three of the bottom three this season. The fact we did that and still got to 49 shows we're not surviving only due to the presence of crisis clubs but because we have managed to compete against the other teams in this division. We cannot be complacent about next season but we can be sure that three teams will have nightmarish seasons that end in relegation. We just have to make sure it isn't us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southport Red Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 This division is hideously distorted by "parachute payments". Teams that have failed get given tens of millions for free as they enter our keague. Without they you could argue we would be higher up than we are/were Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC_Dan Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 6 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said: Anyone else, like Dan, think we are as "novice" in this league as MK Dons? Struggling to see this but otherwise agree with your points Dan I've done a very quick scan through the two squads on Soccerbase and so far as I can tell, City have 9 players in the squad with a decent amount of Championship experience prior to this season, whilst MK Dons have 11. City: Fielding, Little, Ayling, Golbourne, Pearce, Smith, Tomlin, Wagstaff, Wilbraham. Plus you could count Bryan and Reid, who were in the squad last time we were relegated but hardly played. MK Dons: Upson, Kay, Spence, Baker, Potter, Hall, Forster-Caskey, Bowditch, Emmanuel-Thomas, Revell, Maynard. I'm sure some of those can be disputed. I've only done a very quick scan through the squads. But based on that I'd say we are if anything slightly more novice, though you'd have to say some of the people running the club at the top level, and the manager at the start of the season, have more experience at the level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Alex Ferguson once said about the positions of a team in the league, often reflected the health of a club and what's going on behind the scenes at a Club. From what we can see of various clubs in relegation positions, this is quiet true. Our position comes about, purely because of the Summer shambles and fallout at management, and stubbornness in their own belief of a certain manager and unwillingness to change. How anyone expects us to be in any other position than we are now, after what happened at the beginning of this season is beyond me. The Club have acted, and since acting, things have turned around. As has been shown over the season...Clubs can beat anyone in this league...but the table doesn't lie. The GD for each team is a great indicator to how your team are doing...this seasons table is no different and a great indicator. We were getting tonked at the beginning of this season...we have stemmed the flow to some extent. We are showing the form of a mid to higher league team. One more win and we would be 15th. We could still rise in the league...for me it's been an amazing turn around in form considering the shambles at the start. I would say we are going in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Dawe Posted April 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 17 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said: We cannot be complacent about next season That's what I want to see. When we all get a bit carried away pre-season, as new players arrive and all the rubbish ones leave (!) remember folks, this is Bristol City. We came into this season on a high - an almost unequalled high for us - and the Cotts/SL stand off came out of nowhere (as far as we were concerned) and derailed us, to the point where, with a great recovery, we still have merely outperformed two crisis clubs and novice MK. Those that forget our history (are possibly too scarred and pessimistic because of it)....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairman Mao Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 I would really like to know our wage budget rank, date I say it would be higher than some think, with all the loans I suspect it is close to 12th-14th tbh. Hopefully we buy early and cheap in the summer and make some decent Wonga from the stadium to put us on an even keel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One BCFC Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 All ifs and buts at the end of the day. We have a better team than the 3 in the relegation zone regardless if they are all in a shambles or punching above their weight. The first 3 months we were a complete mess ourselves and have done well to stay in the Division. Let's right this season off and start again next season. I'd imagine Burton and probably one of the promoted play off teams will definitely struggle next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderMB Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 I actually agree with the original post. While everyone else is correct, one of the reasons we went down was because we underestimated the league. When our rivals got better, we neglected to improve in favour of trying to trim the fat. My main worry for next season is that the board will see that we survived, and as a result will deem the squad we currently have to be sufficient enough to secure survival again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Team In Keynsham Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 4 hours ago, Jack Dawe said: ....that without the omnishambles (compared to our unishambles last summer to Jan 16) that is Bolton and Charlton, we would be in deep trouble still? Is this all water-under-the-bridge now and counterproductive looking at it this way (the problems have been addressed here) or are we sweeping it under the carpet and ignoring what has really, or also, saved us this season? Only, I'm looking at the table and with two games to go, and below us in the table there is only: Fulham - a mess all season, and last; turmoil behind the scenes, new owner, mounting debts etc etc. MK Dons - Championship novices, low budget Charlton - total and utter shambles Bolton - decent players but huge, debilitating off-field problems As well as LJ Pembo and the players have done, where would we be without a couple of clubs in crisis and novice minnows MK? #hashtagswouldhavesavedusearlier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathredwood Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Aston Villa are in such a state I would expect them to be vulnerable next year. Plenty of teams have had successive relegations recently or at least within a few seasons. Or have gone down and been in trouble before eventually surviving. (Like City under O'Dismal) As for our chances next year.... We have 49 points with 2 to play. Brighton finished last season 20th with 47 points.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 3 hours ago, Jack Dawe said: That's what I want to see. When we all get a bit carried away pre-season, as new players arrive and all the rubbish ones leave (!) remember folks, this is Bristol City. We came into this season on a high - an almost unequalled high for us - and the Cotts/SL stand off came out of nowhere (as far as we were concerned) and derailed us, to the point where, with a great recovery, we still have merely outperformed two crisis clubs and novice MK. Those that forget our history (are possibly too scarred and pessimistic because of it)....... Actually things turned a little sour before the end of last season...way before the summer. And why do people think it had to be SL? Just because he's the majority share holder...not being funny fella...but that is just a huge presumption, brought about by various guesses on this forum, that now seem set in stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Dawe Posted April 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 11 minutes ago, spudski said: Actually things turned a little sour before the end of last season...way before the summer. And why do people think it had to be SL? Just because he's the majority share holder...not being funny fella...but that is just a huge presumption, brought about by various guesses on this forum, that now seem set in stone. It is mostly presumption on my part, although we had some insights from Tetbury Massive and one or two others, on where it all broke down. Plus, it is often said - I think you might've said yourself, spud - nothing big goes through (or otherwise), is signed off, etc, without SL's say so. I'd imagine that includes bids for expensive strikers. Then there's SL's public statements ("we'd have been better off trying to sign the better L1 players") set against SC's ("we can't compete" "there are no L1 players able to step up" etc). Then there was the absence of kind words or praise for SC from SL after sacking him; this, remember, a bloke that won SC a league and a Wembley final. Then there's SC frequent praise of SL in 2014/15 ("great owner") and the complete absence of this in 2015/16. Shall I go on? SL has done nothing to correct this presumption, that I can recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 10 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said: It is mostly presumption on my part, although we had some insights from Tetbury Massive and one or two others, on where it all broke down. Plus, it is often said - I think you might've said yourself, spud - nothing big goes through (or otherwise), is signed off, etc, without SL's say so. I'd imagine that includes bids for expensive strikers. Then there's SL's public statements ("we'd have been better off trying to sign the better L1 players") set against SC's ("we can't compete" "there are no L1 players able to step up" etc). Then there was the absence of kind words or praise for SC from SL after sacking him; this, remember, a bloke that won SC a league and a Wembley final. Then there's SC frequent praise of SL in 2014/15 ("great owner") and the complete absence of this in 2015/16. Shall I go on? SL has done nothing to correct this presumption, that I can recall. I think it's fair to say that SL will give the thumbs up or down so to speak with big decisions...but break down between certain other parties started way before the summer, and it was a long drawn out process to get to the final conclusion of SC leaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Dawe Posted April 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 5 minutes ago, spudski said: I think it's fair to say that SL will give the thumbs up or down so to speak with big decisions...but break down between certain other parties started way before the summer, and it was a long drawn out process to get to the final conclusion of SC leaving. We did seem to drift, or even sleepwalk, into the Sheff Weds game. Then drift/sleepwalk into the Jan transfer window, until the situation that was derailing us was finally addressed directly and sorted. If only we could get a peep "behind the scenes" (or maybe not).... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 2 hours ago, EnderMB said: I actually agree with the original post. While everyone else is correct, one of the reasons we went down was because we underestimated the league. When our rivals got better, we neglected to improve in favour of trying to trim the fat. My main worry for next season is that the board will see that we survived, and as a result will deem the squad we currently have to be sufficient enough to secure survival again. Don't think for one single moment you have to worry about that . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reformed_red Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 2 hours ago, EnderMB said: I actually agree with the original post. While everyone else is correct, one of the reasons we went down was because we underestimated the league. When our rivals got better, we neglected to improve in favour of trying to trim the fat. My main worry for next season is that the board will see that we survived, and as a result will deem the squad we currently have to be sufficient enough to secure survival again. Absolutely no chance. The board have shown they will back strengthening the squad....bids for Gray/Gayle/the youth player from Bolton, plus the players brought in on Loan once Mr DNA arrived. The reason we didn't strengthen last year isn't down to the board IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londoner Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 People are underestimating the poor start of the season that wasn't down to player recruitment but awful decisions from individual players. Brentford were dire and so were Leeds, should of taken 6 points but we screwed ourseleves over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 When you look at the league, apart from the bottom 3 and the top 6, I'd say we were pretty much now on an even par with those teams in between. When you look at goals scored and conceded by other teams, and where they are in the division, it's quiet an eye opener. Preston have Won, drawn and lost pretty much equal amounts of games, and scored pretty much the same as they've conceded...so in theory they epitomise a very average team in this division. Being very average gets you to 11th in the division. I look at teams like, Wolves, Leeds, Birmingham, Forest and Ipswich that know this league inside out...yet still they remain mid table. Only 3 wins or losses in this league can make a huge difference to where you finish. 3 wins more and we'd be smack bang in the middle of the table...3 less wins and we'd be in big trouble. It's such small margins. From what we can see, i'd say we would need the quality of players we have at our disposal right now, to finish higher mid table over a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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