England vs Turkey

[Portland Bill]

18 minutes ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

Am I being stupid, but why are Wright and Dixon saying Vardy dived.

The guy pushed him over, so that is a penalty.

He did dive, the defender put his arm on Vardy's upper arm, which  ' obviously'! made both Vardy's legs to go flying all over the place! Watch it again.

He cheated, but it happens in every game nowadays, some on here think it's only those  'nasty foreigners' who do it though!

[ChippenhamRed]

36 minutes ago, Super said:

If he had a plan A it might be handy.

You don't think he has a fair idea what his starting line up and formation will be when the tournament begins?

Your anti-Hodgson agenda is getting tiresome. We have a limited talent pool, we won every game in qualifying - albeit in a straightforward group - and he has picked what would broadly be agreed to be the right players. You talk as if every England manager before him won every tournament they entered and that we would be world beaters with another man in charge. In reality we have seen world-renowned coaches fail in the job. We are not Brazil in 1970. I'm really not sure what you expect.

[REDOXO]

34 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

Junior Bent Mk 2.

Sterling cant pass (at the moment at least) and looks completely out of sorts. He adds pace but little else. He needs to find some form if he is going to get anywhere the starting 11

5 minutes ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

Am I being stupid, but why are Wright and Dixon saying Vardy dived.

The guy pushed him over, so that is a penalty.

Definitely a penalty, the bloke was tugging his arm. Vardy in those circumstances will get in front of the defender and go down when the legs get mixed up....Ala WHU, but that didn't work out so well.

Luckily I watched the game in Spanish so I didn't have to a lot of bollox (that I could understand...:laugh:!)

England in the centre of the defence are not great, which we already knew. Turkey gave us a very good test once they got their teeth into it, which is a good thing and what was needed.

For my tuppence, Vardy and Kane should start together its the only thing that makes sense. If you were in our group and one of them is on the bench you would breathe a huge sigh of relief and as such I don't get some of the stuff I read from the pundits.

I suspect Woy will give Rooney behind Kane and Vardy a go in the next friendly, thus Alli, Rooney with any two from six in the midfield (not sterling I hope).

We have three good goalkeepers and Hart showed well today but our back four is really our problem.

In the next game I suspect Bertrand, Clyne Smalling to start for comparison and I wouldn't bet against Dier being given a little go at CB with Smalling and Stones just to check out the options again.

I am not a Cahill fan personally, but we will see what happens there.

 

[REDOXO]

23 minutes ago, The Bard said:

The game today made it clear to me that we have to play high energy, pressing football. No Rooney, Wilshire or Sterling. Get players involved who will disrupt the opposition. Defensively we are shit. We have to play Dier at centre half

 

 

Exactly Bard!...In regards to Dier, high energy and disrupting the opposition. 

When all said and done for me its about Rooney and where/if he plays the first match. My thought is he will start the championship between midfield and attack behind a front two. Rooney can direct a game and find a pass better than anyone we have and we may need that to unlock defences.

 

[INCRED]

47 minutes ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

Am I being stupid, but why are Wright and Dixon saying Vardy dived.

The guy pushed him over, so that is a penalty.

Vardy classic, been doing that all season and only one ref sussed him out and booked him and was sent off for second booking. Not condoning it as the best European teams will gave top divers also so at least we have one now

[Portland Bill]

2 minutes ago, INCRED said:

Vardy classic, been doing that all season and only one ref sussed him out and booked him and was sent off for second booking. Not condoning it as the best European teams will gave top divers also so at least we have one now

We have had strikers doing it for donkeys years, Gary Lineker was doing it in 1990, Cameroon game! 

[Super]

47 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

You don't think he has a fair idea what his starting line up and formation will be when the tournament begins?

Your anti-Hodgson agenda is getting tiresome. We have a limited talent pool, we won every game in qualifying - albeit in a straightforward group - and he has picked what would broadly be agreed to be the right players. You talk as if every England manager before him won every tournament they entered and that we would be world beaters with another man in charge. In reality we have seen world-renowned coaches fail in the job. We are not Brazil in 1970. I'm really not sure what you expect.

No he should of got sacked after the World Cup where we were the worst team country.

[Phileas Fogg]

1 hour ago, Red Army 75 said:

I like nothing better than a good atmosphere at the football. But that noise coming from that band is atrocious. It's alright starting songs of but don't bloody play all the way through the chant . Sound like bloody snake charmers. Must be getting old

The band are awful, was great when they were banned at one tournament.

[INCRED]

18 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

We have had strikers doing it for donkeys years, Gary Lineker was doing it in 1990, Cameroon game! 

Yeah but Vardy is the best in the Prem and will get us some Pens for sure in the tight games

[Phileas Fogg]

4 minutes ago, Super said:

No he should of got sacked after the World Cup where we were the worst team country.

Why do you dislike him so much? 

[RumRed]

3 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

The band are awful, was great when they were banned at one tournament.

Agreed, Just ban them, that dirge is embarrassing and horrendous to listen to.

[Portland Bill]

4 minutes ago, INCRED said:

Yeah but Vardy is the best in the Prem and will get us some Pens for sure in the tight games

Not denying that mate, I'm just saying that we have had England strikers diving for a very long time!

[Super]

27 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Why do you dislike him so much? 

He's a nice bloke but never in a million years an international manager. He should go back to Fulham that's his level.

[Super]

26 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

Not denying that mate, I'm just saying that we have had England strikers diving for a very long time!

Nobody ever says anything about owen diving against the argies in 2002!

[And Its Smith]

28 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Why do you dislike him so much? 

What is there to like?  

After years in the job he hasn't identified a recognised team or system.  By now these players should be comfortable playing together for England in a system they are now familiar with.  

Going into this Euros we should all know the system, the team should be consistent with previous games and tournaments and there should be one or two changes for those who have had top seasons I.e Alli.  

Its incredible people can't see it.  The last World Cup was a shambles as well which should have been a huge clue

[Cunnyfunt]

8 minutes ago, Super said:

Nobody ever says anything about owen diving against the argies in 2002!

Detriment to Pochettino funnily enough. 

[Phileas Fogg]

12 minutes ago, RedDave said:

What is there to like?  

After years in the job he hasn't identified a recognised team or system.  By now these players should be comfortable playing together for England in a system they are now familiar with.  

Going into this Euros we should all know the system, the team should be consistent with previous games and tournaments and there should be one or two changes for those who have had top seasons I.e Alli.  

Its incredible people can't see it.  The last World Cup was a shambles as well which should have been a huge clue

I was curious about Super's opinions as he's vocalised them to often about Hodgson. I agree about the last world cup, I'd have got rid after that. Thought it was embarrassing - especially that Costa Rica game, awful.

[JamesBCFC]

1 hour ago, The Bard said:

The game today made it clear to me that we have to play high energy, pressing football. No Rooney, Wilshire or Sterling. Get players involved who will disrupt the opposition. Defensively we are shit. We have to play Dier at centre half

 

 

in the bit that I watched today I thought wilshere did alright, lots of direct runs from him, got right at turkey

[ChippenhamRed]

1 hour ago, Super said:

No he should of got sacked after the World Cup where we were the worst team country.

As if the problem with the national side doesn't run deeper than the manager. We've been sacking managers after tournaments for decades and what has it achieved? Absolutely nothing.

[One BCFC]

Problem with this team is we lack leaders at the back. So Roy needs to combat this by packing the defensive midfield area to support the defence like he did vs Germany and catch teams on the break with our attacking players Alli, Vardy and Kane. 

Roy Hodgson is a nice bloke but I have questioned his tactics since he has been in charge of the side. That side should never have struggled like it did in 2014 and if it does this year then I think he will have to be gone. Well I thought it was best to last time.

[ChippenhamRed]

40 minutes ago, RedDave said:

What is there to like?  

After years in the job he hasn't identified a recognised team or system.  By now these players should be comfortable playing together for England in a system they are now familiar with.  

Going into this Euros we should all know the system, the team should be consistent with previous games and tournaments and there should be one or two changes for those who have had top seasons I.e Alli.  

Its incredible people can't see it.  The last World Cup was a shambles as well which should have been a huge clue

I agree with much of what you say Dave but "the team should be consistent with previous tournaments"? Really? If that was the case we wouldn't be picking half the side we are now, many of whom have emerged in the last two years. Vardy, Kane, Dier, Alli spring to mind. In fact whenever Hodgson sticks with someone (Wiltshire, Rooney) he is accused of picking his favourites! Surely you just pick the best 11 at the time.

Continuity is good, but not continuity for continuity's sake.

[Ivorguy]

They just looked as though they had been thrown together for the first time and given the tactical advice 'Do the best you can'

Thank goodness Hodgson left us years ago.  He is a figure not only from our past but football's past

[Murraysrightplum]

All trying to hard to impress so they don't get left at home. Think they'll improve but defense is a worry. Quarter finals again?

[Davefevs]

I still wonder why people expect us to play a team like Turkey and roll them over.  They are 13th and we are 10th in FIFA rankings.  I'm surprised they are as high as 13th, but ditto us re 10th.  We are not the 10th best team in FIFA, even following our qualification ease.

Onto the game.  We were slightly the better side, both teams had spells.  I think we just about deserved the win.

Definite penalty for me.  It wasn't likevWest Ham where Vardy ran a line to make contact, when the ball was on another line.  Tonight he he had to start to cut in.  Defender also put pressure on his shoulder.  As a defender if you make contact, you make it easy for the striker to go over and the referee.  I don't agree that we'd be morning had it been the other way. I;d be blaming Cahill or Stones for being naive.

Bright spots:

Kyle Walker - best display for England imho.  Pressure on Clyne, who's started to look at home for England.  Good pair, I just choose Clyne, but not unhappy with either.

Joe Hart - great save late on.  Shane about their opener

Kane and Vardy - showed they can work chances....I'd still be tempted to play just Kane though.

Eric Dier - looks at home.  Would like Henderson's energy, not Wilshere in there with him.

Minuses:

Dele Alli - poor game tonight, but still set up Kane.  Roy to have a little word with him.  Can just see a Gazza tear moment, as Dele overstretches into a challenge and gets a second yellow in the main games.

All of the others fairly middling performances.  Sterling did some good things and sone crap things, but I'd like to see him actually play at full tilt, not the 75% he seems to.

 

 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

15 hours ago, Portland Bill said:

He did dive, the defender put his arm on Vardy's upper arm, which  ' obviously'! made both Vardy's legs to go flying all over the place! Watch it again.

He cheated, but it happens in every game nowadays, some on here think it's only those  'nasty foreigners' who do it though!

Yep he was already on his way down when the 'minimal' contact happened.

Would he have gone down like that running for a bus?.

it was a dive.

[LondonBristolian]

14 hours ago, BA14 RED said:

Problem with this team is we lack leaders at the back. So Roy needs to combat this by packing the defensive midfield area to support the defence like he did vs Germany and catch teams on the break with our attacking players Alli, Vardy and Kane. 

Roy Hodgson is a nice bloke but I have questioned his tactics since he has been in charge of the side. That side should never have struggled like it did in 2014 and if it does this year then I think he will have to be gone. Well I thought it was best to last time.

Completely agree that if we fail to get out of the group this time then Hodgson will have to go.  To be honest, unless we get one of the top teams in the second round, we have to target the quarter finals.  But let's not forget, poor though 2014 was, we had a tough group and an inexperienced team and, if you write off the Costa Rica game with nothing to play for and a second string team, we might easily have drawn are opening games and it would have been a different story.   I remember especially vs Uruguay we were basically on top until Jagielka ballsed up and Gerrard than managed one of his trademark catastrophic errors at a crucial time.  Admittedly we've got players who are capable of that kind of error this time so we shall see.

 

Ultimately I agree tactically the way we have to play is 4 at the back, 2 holding midfielders and pace on the break from the forwards.  If we do that, we have the players who can make a difference but I do fear we're going to have score at least twice to win matches and that's less than ideal.

[LondonBristolian]

14 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

I agree with much of what you say Dave but "the team should be consistent with previous tournaments"? Really? If that was the case we wouldn't be picking half the side we are now, many of whom have emerged in the last two years. Vardy, Kane, Dier, Alli spring to mind. In fact whenever Hodgson sticks with someone (Wiltshire, Rooney) he is accused of picking his favourites! Surely you just pick the best 11 at the time.

Continuity is good, but not continuity for continuity's sake.

Exactly.  We've arguably not played to our potential at a tournament since 2002 (and the arguable bit is whether we did then) and, the tournament before Hodgson started, Capello picked a squad with two players under the age of 25.  We were broadly consistent with selection at major tournaments from 2004 to 2012 and the outcome of that was that we started off reaching quarter finals, then failed to qualify or qualified but played poorly.  The team shouldn't be consistent from the past unless that's justified.

 

Hodgson joined just before 2012 and really our performances there gave no reason for continuity with that squad.  Likewise 2014 he had young players coming through combined with older players who were past their best.  Hodgson or any other manager would have had to bring an entire generation of new players through.    It's only really over the last year we've had players come through who look like they could be the spine of a team of the future.  And, even then, it's pretty clear our centre-back situation is pretty unsatisfactory and we're crying out for a couple of capable centre-backs to come through.  Let's hope we've now got a generation who can prove themselves for the next few years but, from 2010 and 2012, pretty much the entire squad needed an overhaul.  If you look at the Euro 2012 squad, even if you discount Welbeck (injured) and Terry (retired), you've still got 15 players who would no longer justify a place in the squad, 2 more who some might call to include but wouldn't be regular starters, 2 more who are in the squad but some would argue they shouldn't be, Cahill who only really merits his place in the absence of better options.  It's only Joe Hart you're then left with who definitely merits consistent selection. 

[JamesBCFC]

1 hour ago, LondonBristolian said:

Exactly.  We've arguably not played to our potential at a tournament since 2002 (and the arguable bit is whether we did then) and, the tournament before Hodgson started, Capello picked a squad with two players under the age of 25.  We were broadly consistent with selection at major tournaments from 2004 to 2012 and the outcome of that was that we started off reaching quarter finals, then failed to qualify or qualified but played poorly.  The team shouldn't be consistent from the past unless that's justified.

 

Hodgson joined just before 2012 and really our performances there gave no reason for continuity with that squad.  Likewise 2014 he had young players coming through combined with older players who were past their best.  Hodgson or any other manager would have had to bring an entire generation of new players through.    It's only really over the last year we've had players come through who look like they could be the spine of a team of the future.  And, even then, it's pretty clear our centre-back situation is pretty unsatisfactory and we're crying out for a couple of capable centre-backs to come through.  Let's hope we've now got a generation who can prove themselves for the next few years but, from 2010 and 2012, pretty much the entire squad needed an overhaul.  If you look at the Euro 2012 squad, even if you discount Welbeck (injured) and Terry (retired), you've still got 15 players who would no longer justify a place in the squad, 2 more who some might call to include but wouldn't be regular starters, 2 more who are in the squad but some would argue they shouldn't be, Cahill who only really merits his place in the absence of better options.  It's only Joe Hart you're then left with who definitely merits consistent selection. 

Hart falls under the same bracket as Cahill for me. Makes mistakes far too often

[LondonBristolian]

3 minutes ago, City169 said:

Hart falls under the same bracket as Cahill for me. Makes mistakes far too often

Maybe.  Certainly he did yesterday.  Especially with Butland injured, he has to be one of the three goalkeepers in the squad but certainly Butland and Forster are closer to dislodging him than any competition he's faced to date.  I think as well, good though I think Hart is, you have to think back to four years ago when he arguably rivailed Neuer for the best young goalkeeper in the world and say he has stalled somewhat in recent years. 

[MarcusX]

18 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

We qualified with a 100% record and the best goal difference of any team and, over the past year, we've beaten 2 of the 3 favourites in friendlies over the past year.  We've played poorly tonight in a friendly where the squad have had two days of training and  are missing 8 players bbut we've won anyway and Turkey certainly aren't a terrible side by a long shot.

I'm not convinced we'll do brilliantly in the Euros but much of that is due to defensive deficiencies which any manager would face - of all centre-backs reasonably in contention for an England place, only one is a first-team regular.  That's not really Hodgson's fault.

I'm not claiming Hodgson is a brilliant manager but I'm also not convinced he's done a bad job, or that there is another manager waiting in the wings who would do significantly better.  What I am convinced on is that, before a major tournament, the only thing more tedious than the casual supporters who turn up for major tournaments are convinced we're going to storm it is the negative dullards making whiney comments even when England win.  It's unnecessary and it's boring. 

Dont you know, its fashionable to moan about our national team?

Fully agree with what you say. Wasn't a great performance last night, but we won. How quickly the Germany game is forgotten!