England vs Australia

[JamesBCFC]

5 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Courtois and Cech absolutely not.  

Opinions, but even without those 2 I have named 5 better goalkeepers just off the top of my head.

Im not saying hart isn't good. Just overrated

[And Its Smith]

2 minutes ago, City169 said:

Opinions, but even without those 2 I have named 5 better goalkeepers just off the top of my head.

Im not saying hart isn't good. Just overrated

Sixth best keeper in the world? Fine.  Don't see how he is overrated.  Few people say he's top three.  Undoubtedly a great keeper and probably England's only world class player

[JamesBCFC]

3 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Sixth best keeper in the world? Fine.  Don't see how he is overrated.  Few people say he's top three.  Undoubtedly a great keeper and probably England's only world class player

Again, I had him at 8th highest without having a think about other goalkeepers, probably wouldn't have him in the top 10.

Englands only world class player? You got to be joking! We don't have any.

[arrytheb]

1 hour ago, City169 said:

Again, I had him at 8th highest without having a think about other goalkeepers, probably wouldn't have him in the top 10.

Englands only world class player? You got to be joking! We don't have any.

And you've both missed out the best keeper in the world! 

[JamesBCFC]

3 minutes ago, arrytheb said:

And you've both missed out the best keeper in the world! 

Well, I thought O'Donnell was a bit obvious.

[arrytheb]

4 minutes ago, City169 said:

Well, I thought O'Donnell was a bit obvious.

Just wouldn't hurt you to mention it every now and then! 

[Phileas Fogg]

1 hour ago, City169 said:

Again, I had him at 8th highest without having a think about other goalkeepers, probably wouldn't have him in the top 10.

Englands only world class player? You got to be joking! We don't have any.

Depends how you define 'world class' - at their best - Hart is, Rooney is and Kane is. I'd say 'world class' is top 10 in their position globally. I'd say that right now, those three all have a case for being classed as that.

[JamesBCFC]

24 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Depends how you define 'world class' - at their best - Hart is, Rooney is and Kane is. I'd say 'world class' is top 10 in their position globally. I'd say that right now, those three all have a case for being classed as that.

I think at their very best each of those can put in a world class performance, but that doesn't make them world class, because it is not consistent, whereas world class players can put in a world class performance consistently.

Rooney a few years ago was borderline world class for Man Utd, but in an England shirt he has proven time and time again to be a flat track bully, who performs against the minnows.

Hart is too error prone, more so in an England shirt than at Man City, I think he needs to be dropped for a couple of competitive international games, whether tournament (more risky) or qualifiers that aren't a dead rubber because he seems to be too comfortable.

Kane I think out of those 3 is the best shout for world class, but I don't think he is there, yet. He's only young and will improve, so perhaps one day, but not right now. Very good player though.

[BS5_RED]

On 28/05/2016 at 05:44, GrahamC said:

Someone on here mentioned Aaron Mooy a while ago, he looks a very decent player for the Aussies.

Seen a fair bit of him down here. He's a tidy player and puts in a good shift every game.

Given the less than stellar standard of the A-League ( I'd put it at lower Champ/League one - on a good day) and the different style of football Australian teams play (Half British/Half European) it hard to tell for sure but I think he could do a job for a championship side.......

He'll probably go to a Dutch, Belgian or Scottish club tho. Decent Aussies normally do.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

5 hours ago, City169 said:

I think at their very best each of those can put in a world class performance, but that doesn't make them world class, because it is not consistent, whereas world class players can put in a world class performance consistently.

Rooney a few years ago was borderline world class for Man Utd, but in an England shirt he has proven time and time again to be a flat track bully, who performs against the minnows.

Hart is too error prone, more so in an England shirt than at Man City, I think he needs to be dropped for a couple of competitive international games, whether tournament (more risky) or qualifiers that aren't a dead rubber because he seems to be too comfortable.

Kane I think out of those 3 is the best shout for world class, but I don't think he is there, yet. He's only young and will improve, so perhaps one day, but not right now. Very good player though.

Again, depends how you define it. I'd say too 10 in their position globally makes them world class. 

It is very fashionable on OTIB to be incredibly critical of our national team, I honesty have no idea why. Granted, we're not at the level of Spain or Germany but in reality we aren't that bad. 

[Northern Red]

Rooney's usual pre-tournament injury might have actually worked in England's favour for a change. A couple of months off and it happened early enough for him to come back and be able to build up his fitness ahead of the tournament instead of rushing him back when he clearly isn't anywhere near fit.

[JamesBCFC]

10 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Again, depends how you define it. I'd say too 10 in their position globally makes them world class. 

It is very fashionable on OTIB to be incredibly critical of our national team, I honesty have no idea why. Granted, we're not at the level of Spain or Germany but in reality we aren't that bad. 

I reckon there are at least 10 better strikers than Rooney and Kane though, but as I said, I think Kane has potential to become world class.

With me it's nothing to do with being fashionable, these are views I've had for a long time

[Cunnyfunt]

21 hours ago, City169 said:

He has ****** up on big stages for years now too.

Buffon, Casillas, ter Stegen, Courtois, Cech, Navas, Neuer are all better goalkeepers, those are just off the top of my head

Hart is ahead of Ter Stegen, Casillas, Courtois and probably Cech now for sure. Think De Gea deserves a mention. He probably tops the lot. It would be madness if he's not Spain's number one in the Euros. 

[JamesBCFC]

3 minutes ago, Cunnyfunt said:

Hart is ahead of Ter Stegen, Casillas, Courtois and probably Cech now for sure. Think De Gea deserves a mention. He probably tops the lot. It would be madness if he's not Spain's number one in the Euros. 

Possibly above Casillas and Cech, think it's close. Both of those at their peak were far superior. De Gea is definitely better than Hart

[Super]

4 minutes ago, Cunnyfunt said:

Hart is ahead of Ter Stegen, Casillas, Courtois and probably Cech now for sure. Think De Gea deserves a mention. He probably tops the lot. It would be madness if he's not Spain's number one in the Euros. 

For me courtois isn't as good as people make out. De Gea and Neuer are by far the best two keepers.

[Phileas Fogg]

5 hours ago, City169 said:

I reckon there are at least 10 better strikers than Rooney and Kane though, but as I said, I think Kane has potential to become world class.

With me it's nothing to do with being fashionable, these are views I've had for a long time

Rooney isn't really a striker anymore. Name 10 strikers you'd rather have in your team than Kane? 

[And Its Smith]

1. Neuer

2. De Gea

3. Buffon

4. Navas

5. Hart

[Davefevs]

My definition of world class is:

- if two teams were selected to play each other, would a player get in either team.

Its very much a point in time definition, and allows that that little bit of license whether there are two players who you can't decide quite who is best.  

I don't think Hart is therefore world class, neither is Rooney, nor is Kane.  England do not possess one player imho who get into either World Class eleven.  That doesn't mean we are crap, but we ain't world beaters either.  We are not the 10th best team in the world, as per our FIFA ranking.

We should get out of our group at the Euros, that is the minimum requirement when you look at our three opponents.  If we fail to get out, that is 100% failure.  I'd also see failure as getting out of the group as best 3rd team.  We really shouldn't be relying on that.

Then progress from last 16 to last 8 is where it'll depend who we draw. Assuming we win our group (big if), we would play a best 3rd team, so ought to get through.  I think that might be our limit, last 8.

Obviously hoping we go all the way, but watching the Australia performance, I can only think that a decent nation will send us packing.

[JamesBCFC]

36 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Rooney isn't really a striker anymore. Name 10 strikers you'd rather have in your team than Kane? 

Aguero, Lewandowski, Benzema, Higuain, Cavani, Müller, Aubemayang, Reus, Icardi, Mario Gomez.

Then there's the likes of Messi, Ronaldo, Neymar, Suarez and Diego Costa, who I didn't put into that 10 because I dont like.

[JoeAman08]

I think Joe Hart is World Class. It's been said he makes mistakes but I think many are too close to the situation to give a valid argument on it. You'll see him make mistakes from time to time but if you watch the enough of Neuer you'll see he does as well. Keeper wise, off the top of my head, I'd take De Gea, Lloris, and Neuer over him. After that, he's in a close battle with a few others. 

As far as strikers go, Kane has a way to go before world class but looks to be on the way. There are just a good amount of elite ones at the moment. 

After those two, England have a squad of players that would struggle to get into Spain, France, Germany and Belgium teams. Italy and England are probably in that next tier together. Teams that should be better but are lacking in talent at the moment. For the euros though, I can't see anyone winning it not named France or Germany. They look a couple step ahead of the rest.