freeman

[AshtonGreat]

1 minute ago, Barry Sheene said:

Nobody is getting on anybody's back. We are just expressing an opinion in the same way you stated the Bobby Reid was largely awful yesterday.

I can't agree with that opinion but I wouldn't say you are getting on Bobby Reid back because of that opinion.

This is a football forum and we all have to accept that we all see that game differently.

 

My comment about Bobby Reid was a reaction to constant berating of Freeman when I thought Freeman was nowhere near the worst player. And I think it is getting on his back when people constantly say its time to sell, he is out of his depth etc. 

[Barry Sheene]

1 minute ago, AshtonGreat said:

My comment about Bobby Reid was a reaction to constant berating of Freeman when I thought Freeman was nowhere near the worst player. And I think it is getting on his back when people constantly say its time to sell, he is out of his depth etc. 

No sorry nobody is saying we should sell Aden flint because largely he performs week in week out.

When you pay your money that gives you the right to have an opinion if a player is good or bad .  That is not getting on there back.

You know my opinion on Luke but that doesn't mean I was in the stand giving him stick. If he's in the team I will support him. 

I accept you opinion on Luke Freeman and respect you for it. You should do the same if people opinions are different to yours.

[AshtonGreat]

7 minutes ago, Barry Sheene said:

No sorry nobody is saying we should sell Aden flint because largely he performs week in week out.

When you pay your money that gives you the right to have an opinion if a player is good or bad .  That is not getting on there back.

You know my opinion on Luke but that doesn't mean I was in the stand giving him stick. If he's in the team I will support him. 

I accept you opinion on Luke Freeman and respect you for it. You should do the same if people opinions are different to yours.

Sure, but the bottom line is that it affects players' confidence. That was clear to see when Little came on. 

[Welshback]

It seems he plays well when he acts on instinct, but if he has time to make a decision he usually makes a poor one. And I don't think his movement without the ball is good enough, but then the same could be said for most of our forwards yesterday.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

Luke is playing at a much poorer personal standard than when he played in L1- he's making poorer decisions given the exact same circumstances and I don't believe it's because he's not good enough.

Maybe he needs more coaching, a break, a loan spell, some confidence- who knows? I'd be disappointed to see him hounded out of BS3 because he has the ability to to do well at this level. He's only 24 and if it's a matter of better decisions and confidence then Lee & Pemberton need to work on him.

[bearded_red]

1 hour ago, AshtonGreat said:

With some of you lot getting on his back every week, it's hardly surprising is it*. Anyway, Freeman has never been a prolific goalscorer. The point is, he's a real handful for opposing defences, and I saw several instances of that yesterday.

*The same applies to Little. His confidence was shot to pieces yesterday. 

Yeah definitely. The reason he hasn't ever scored at Ashton Gate is definitely because I have pointed that fact out on the Internet. Definitely.

[adamski]

  I don't judge players on single games, if that was the case I'd be calling for the lot of them to be moved on.

I believe Freeman is a hard working honest player, however, even when full of confidence as we stormed Div 1 he was not the brightest at finding the pass, often he would do some pointless dribble holding up the ball or beating a man too many. At that level okay, but at our current level early balls, through passes and quick build up play are required. An intelligent footballer's brain is needed. I don't believe Luke has this, he has the skills I'm sure, just not the foresight. That's what makes the difference between good and great. Not how many tricks you can do with the ball or men you can beat.....alas

[Esmond Million's Bung]

18 hours ago, Antman said:

if he'd crossed the ball early instead of this constant stepover bullshit we'd have put them under real pressure.

Everytime he got it out wide, Abraham rushing into the box, he takes it onto a little mazy dribble and allows the entire defence to regroup.

 

We have two great strikers who can punish defenders, play the ball in early FFS!!!

When you look at the stats for yesterday we bossed virtually all of them the one aside was crossing, a lesson to be learnt when you have 2 good strikers surely?.

 

[Steve Watts]

In fairness to LF he did a lot of running on the ball yesterday and didn't fall over his own feet once that I remember.  I see that as progress!

He should be given a chance to show what he can do under LJ and we can only hope that we manage to get him back to his league one performance levels.  He has struggled, but I won't write him off yet....so long as he stops taking corners!

[Alessandro]

Fans demand loyalty - look at what people said about Kodjia when it was presumed he wanted to leave.

And yet on here, people are all over the backs of both Freeman and Little, important players for us in previous years. 

Where is your loyalty to them? Was is your patience or support? Getting behind them instead or berating the confidence from them?

Freeman apparently did nothing yesterday, yet helped us maintain possession high up the pitch and was the one who put in the two or three deliveries from set pieces that we looked to cause most trouble with. Magnets should have scored from a Freeman corner.

But of course everyone only remembers the final free kick that was short.

Our squad is not yet complete and Freeman will play his part. And regarding Little, well, as we've seen, not many options for RB right now, so in the meantime how about getting behind him instead.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

1 minute ago, Alessandro said:

Fans demand loyalty - look at what people said about Kodjia when it was presumed he wanted to leave.

And yet on here, people are all over the backs of both Freeman and Little, important players for us in previous years. 

Where is your loyalty to them? Was is your patience or support? Getting behind them instead or berating the confidence from them?

Freeman apparently did nothing yesterday, yet helped us maintain possession high up the pitch and was the one who put in the two or three deliveries from set pieces that we looked to cause most trouble with. Magnets should have scored from a Freeman corner.

But of course everyone only remembers the final free kick that was short.

Our squad is not yet complete and Freeman will play his part. And regarding Little, well, as we've seen, not many options for RB right now, so in the meantime how about getting behind him instead.

There is little or no loyalty in football these days apart from fans and they are entitled to criticise.

Players are rewarded by being handsomely paid for playing a game, fans have their opinions and as we know those opinions often conflict with one another, however for 12 months now Little and Freeman appear to have not been anywhere near consistent enough for the level that we are at, so how long does the loyalty need to last? for instance if results were to take a long sustained dip and the squad started to show dissent towards LJ how long would the loyalty be expected to last in his case even though he was part of a great end to last season?.

[Alessandro]

14 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

for instance if results were to take a long sustained dip and the squad started to show dissent towards LJ how long would the loyalty be expected to last in his case even though he was part of a great end to last season?.

Well that hasn't happened, neither two players have shown dissent, so in this case it's completely irrelevant.

Fans are of course entitled to an opinion, not saying that, but some seem all too quick to forget the bigger picture. 

Yes I recognise Little isn't cutting the mustard, but he is now, by no fault of his own, our only fit RB. It's counterproductive to get on his back, it serves nothing.

Freeman is a squad player. Yes he started yesterday, but we know LJ wishes to rotate and people have forgotten already both Brownhill and O'Dowda are very young and green and need to be eased into the league and not burnt out.

We don't need to sell Freeman, he won't be a regular starter, but will be important part of the squad. 

Just remember, people were writing off Ayling, saying he wasn't good enough for this league and all of a sudden we look bare at RB and he is a Messiah we stupidly let go.

If two of O'Dowda, Brownhill and Bobby got injured, we'd been more than glad to have Freeman in our squad. 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

3 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Well that hasn't happened, neither two players have shown dissent, so in this case it's completely irrelevant.

Fans are of course entitled to an opinion, not saying that, but some seem all too quick to forget the bigger picture. 

Yes I recognise Little isn't cutting the mustard, but he is now, by no fault of his own, our only fit RB. It's counterproductive to get on his back, it serves nothing.

Freeman is a squad player. Yes he started yesterday, but we know LJ wishes to rotate and people have forgotten already both Brownhill and O'Dowda are very young and green and need to be eased into the league and not burnt out.

We don't need to sell Freeman, he won't be a regular starter, but will be important part of the squad. 

Just remember, people were writing off Ayling, saying he wasn't good enough for this league and all of a sudden we look bare at RB and he is a Messiah we stupidly let go.

If two of O'Dowda, Brownhill and Bobby got injured, we'd been more than glad to have Freeman in our squad. 

The highlighted portion is totally baffling, try reading what I wrote, that quote was about loyalty in general and LJ in particular and nothing to do with the aforementioned players, so it's not irrelevant unlike your reply.

I fully agree with your point about Little, that particular blame appears to lie elsewhere.

The point about Ayling I don't believe to be true either, I think people believe him to be better than Little simple as, but he's gone now and that plus whatever the cause of Matthews injury has left us with an unneeded problem.

I don't agree about Freeman, he has proved himself far to inconsistent at this level, but I respect your view, but of course Freeman may not have your sort of enthusiasm about being 4th choice as a squad member. The problem with Freeman is so far he has not made the step up and really shows no sign of so doing IMO.
 

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

I thought he was reasonably good yesterday, particularly in the first half.  Needs a run of games to build up confidence and match fitness.  There is work to do, but he is good enough to be in the squad.

[Alessandro]

24 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

The highlighted portion is totally baffling, try reading what I wrote, that quote was about loyalty in general and LJ in particular and nothing to do with the aforementioned players, so it's not irrelevant unlike your reply.

I did read what you wrote.

I was talking about fans loyalty to players (specifically Freeman and Little) and you wrote something  hypothetical about players showing dissent:

'for instance if results were to take a long sustained dip and the squad started to show dissent towards LJ how long would the loyalty be expected to last' -

to which I responded that I don't think that hypothetical question is relevant to Freeman or Little, who regardless of ability, continue to show commitment and effort for the team and club.

The statement is not irrelevant to a debate about player loyalty, granted, just not for Freeman or Little in my opinion.

I agree with what you say about Freeman, he needs to improve end product. But he isn't a liability, put in a few decent deliveries and is happy on the ball, making him still an important squad member till we have more depth. 

[1960maaan]

First up we can forget what happened in L1, we're not there anymore. There are some on here could have played in the seasons team, we were so good cracks were papered over.

Freeman has had over a year in this Division and hasn't improved,stepped up or changed his game to suit. He still plays with his head down and passing is always a last resort. Bobby Reid has much more visionand looks more likely to cut it in  the Championship.

 Secondly how you can compare Odowda and Freeman when Odowda has had about  2 full games at this level while LF has had a year to make an impression. Also excusing LF by saying he wasn't the worst on the park is pointless. Little looks out of his depth at times, where as Kodjia, Tomlin etc have proved useful and productive previously where as LF has flattered to deceive at best. 

But although this is a forum, and it's very existence relies on opinions , best I don't say this out loud incase it effects their confidence. 

Too be fair to Freeman, everything he tried last year failed, he kept going which I have to praise him for. Sadly every chance he gets, he looks the same and I don't think he'll make it in this division, at least not with us. He may well thrive on a new start but I've seen no sign anything is likely to change in the short term

[Esmond Million's Bung]

1 hour ago, Alessandro said:

I did read what you wrote.

I was talking about fans loyalty to players (specifically Freeman and Little) and you wrote something  hypothetical about players showing dissent:

'for instance if results were to take a long sustained dip and the squad started to show dissent towards LJ how long would the loyalty be expected to last' -

to which I responded that I don't think that hypothetical question is relevant to Freeman or Little, who regardless of ability, continue to show commitment and effort for the team and club.

The statement is not irrelevant to a debate about player loyalty, granted, just not for Freeman or Little in my opinion.

I agree with what you say about Freeman, he needs to improve end product. But he isn't a liability, put in a few decent deliveries and is happy on the ball, making him still an important squad member till we have more depth. 

So let me get this straight because I am totally confused here. 

The loyalty I was talking about was from the fans towards a manager not the players loyalty towards to manager, I was making an analogy about how after 12 months of mediocre performances by 2 players you say that the fans should show more loyalty and I was asking whether that same loyalty from the fans should be shown to a failing manager, who let's be honest is the only person at the club in any real danger of losing his job if certain players are not performing consistently and results are not so good.

So to make this as easy as I possibly can at which point are the fans allowed to show disloyalty towards players compared to a manager and whether 1 year is a fair amount of time?.

[Major Isewater]

Can he play right back ? 

[BRISTOL86]

On 20/08/2016 at 18:21, Taylor10 said:

You can't say a bad word about good old no goals. People would rather cling onto the double winning season and quite happily watch him step over his way up the line with zero end product.

The worst thing is all the 'experts' on TV who constantly identify him as our threat. Ha! 

[cidercity1987]

Trying to attack with Freeman around is like writing with a blunt pencil or doing the bizzo with a floppy.

I couldnt go on Saturday but a number of times BCFC tweets referred to chances falling to him but low and behold they were all scuffed and easy for the keeper. I didnt rate him in League One, even less so now but he will do as a sub when we have a lead to move the ball upfield or for his set piece skills. Just dont expect goals and assists from open play because he hasnt adequately in his whole BCFC career.

[Robbored]

I thought he had a better game on Saturday although he set play delivery was awful. I also though he looked as if he'd either beefed up or put on some timber......

[Super]

1 hour ago, cidercity1987 said:

Trying to attack with Freeman around is like writing with a blunt pencil or doing the bizzo with a floppy.

I couldnt go on Saturday but a number of times BCFC tweets referred to chances falling to him but low and behold they were all scuffed and easy for the keeper. I didnt rate him in League One, even less so now but he will do as a sub when we have a lead to move the ball upfield or for his set piece skills. Just dont expect goals and assists from open play because he hasnt adequately in his whole BCFC career.

As much as I don't think he is up to this level that is nonsense.

[Alessandro]

14 hours ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

So let me get this straight because I am totally confused here. 

The loyalty I was talking about was from the fans towards a manager not the players loyalty towards to manager, I was making an analogy about how after 12 months of mediocre performances by 2 players you say that the fans should show more loyalty and I was asking whether that same loyalty from the fans should be shown to a failing manager, who let's be honest is the only person at the club in any real danger of losing his job if certain players are not performing consistently and results are not so good.

So to make this as easy as I possibly can at which point are the fans allowed to show disloyalty towards players compared to a manager and whether 1 year is a fair amount of time?.

Firstly, either I'm misunderstanding you or you're not explaining yourself, either way it's a written forum that is often confusing, so it's not that 'baffling' wires get crossed. So, to make this as easy as I possibly can ():

I don't think bringing the manager into the debate is totally relevant because you would clearly judge managers and players performances on different parameters. 

I think putting a time limit on loyalty is frankly farcical, and I especially think judging players after only 5 games of the season, is also a little premature. New players can lift those around them and no one knows yet if Freeman can lift his game.

If you look back on OTIB, one year ago, against the general trend, I was in the minority writing that Freeman, still under Cotterill, was lots of tricks and little end product. So I saw a year ago this and often got slated for it. So I'm not a Freeman happy clapper. But I try and see the bigger picture, which is that although Freeman does dwell too often in possession, he is at least comfortable in retaining possession, and links well, at least with those players behind him. His delivery from dead balls is good and he always puts in a shift.

But the bigger picture right now, we've already bought 7 or so new faces, and injuries have already shown we are not exactly overflowing with players. Freeman will continue to be an important squad player, especially with the fact both O'Dowda and Brownhill will need managing. 

Freeman and Little, may not, or as some would say, will not, take us forward as a club, but right now we still need them.

So you've got two choices, a) berate the player who is doing his best in the circumstances and who without we may be in a worse position or b) get behind the player who has been committed to the club and continues to give his best regardless of the circumstances. 

You never know what a little confidence could do for either player, but one thing for sure, to some of the people around me, standing up and berating and abusing them isn't going help anyone right now. My comment about loyalty was probably more aimed at these same people who don't see the irony of in one sentence saying "Kodjia's money grabbing and disloyal" and in the next "Freeman isn't good enough, ship him out". In my opinion you can't have it both ways.

[Buckeyed]

I think the issue was that we were forced to play Golbourne on Saturday rather than Bryan. Freeman was continually looking for the overlap, however this is not how Golbourne plays.

[Londoner]

His confidence is shot. Would prefer to see him in the middle but needs to lose weight!!!

[Port Said Red]

Line up Luke.... it's your turn boy...

[Taylor10]

6 hours ago, BRISTOL86 said:

The worst thing is all the 'experts' on TV who constantly identify him as our threat. Ha! 

I think as fans we are entitled to question why one of our so called creative players can't hit a barn door or effect games like he did in the double winning season. I don't see why anyone takes that as Freeman being the forum scapegoat or people having an 'agenda'. 

Mind you I think the so called experts are also living off the double winning season!!

[Vincent Vega]

3 hours ago, Londoner said:

His confidence is shot. Would prefer to see him in the middle but needs to lose weight!!!

Think that ship has sailed 

[AshtonGreat]

Personally I thought he was better than Tomlin on Saturday, and he was certainly better than Bobby Reid

[The Bard]

1 hour ago, AshtonGreat said:

Personally I thought he was better than Tomlin on Saturday, and he was certainly better than Bobby Reid

Couldn't disagree with you more.  I thought Tomlin could stagger around with a can of 8ace and still produce more attacking threat than Freeman.   As others have said on this thread and in the countless others last season, he plays with his head down, meaning he needs far too many touches and time before considering delivering the ball.  He clearly has the ability and technique but until he properly adapts his game he will be frustrating, ineffective and slow the game down.  I'd rather see Bobby Reid have a dodgy game knowing that when he's on his game we are a better side,  than watch Freeman do the same things and see the same results.  We have to acknowledge that Cotts' decision to use him in the middle worked at the level we were at with the quality of team we had and the lack of quality opposition we had.  He was completely exposed last season in the middle and needs to wake up and smell the coffee if he is to have a future with us.  One suspects he'll end up at either low end Championship or high end League 1.