Tammy Abraham...do we need to take advantage?

[The hand of RO'D]

Now before I start I'm keeping my feet firmly on the ground but with the start we have made even the most pessimistic of city fans must surely be having a little dream.

Tammy has made an absolutely unbelievable start to his professional career and I can only thank god (LJ ) that its with us. Now it's got me thinking, do we need to really push for promotion this year with Tammy well on course for 20, hell even 30+ goals and really take advantage of what he's hopefully capable of? I mean it's not every day we find a gem like him.

People might say we're not ready just yet but our infrastructure and set up are biblical leagues apart from our infamous play off season, are we ready?

It would be interesting to know what we had outlined for this season before TA banged in 11 in 13 and if they have changed at board level now. It will certainly make the January transfer window interesting.

Unfortunately I don't have a crystal ball to see how this season for us & Tammy will pan out but all I know is that the feel good factor is running back through the heart of this terrific club once more! Here's to what I hope is going to be a great season! 

[MC RISK77]

Not quite sure what you are asking us here. Are you suggesting we try and buy Tammy Abraham? if so you are bonkers won't ever happen. 

Or are you suggesting we buy more players in January?

oh and we didn't find Tammy, Chelsea did.

[pride of the west]

The aim of promotion this season has always been there. And yes, we need to go for it properly this yr as we won't get a better chance without tammy

[The hand of RO'D]

5 minutes ago, MC RISK77 said:

Not quite sure what you are asking us here. Are you suggesting we try and buy Tammy Abraham? if so you are bonkers won't ever happen. 

Or are you suggesting we buy more players in January?

oh and we didn't find Tammy, Chelsea did.

Sorry made that part as clear as mud!

I meant do we need to take advantage of Tammy for this one season! I know there isn't a hope in hell signing him so was just asking if we should take advantage of what he'll bring to us for this one season and go for promotion.

[Robbored]

There will be a slight chance that we might get Tammy on another season long loan next season. He's still very young of course and another season in the SBC will be more experience and toughen him up even more.

It depends on Chelsea and of course Tammy himself.

[ChippenhamRed]

4 minutes ago, MC RISK77 said:

Not quite sure what you are asking us here. Are you suggesting we try and buy Tammy Abraham? if so you are bonkers won't ever happen. 

Or are you suggesting we buy more players in January?

oh and we didn't find Tammy, Chelsea did.

At what point did he suggest we should buy Tammy? He's suggesting we should push for promotion while he is here and we still have the benefit of his goals.

No wonder some people don't post on here when someone comes up with an interesting angle and gets this sort of grief straight away.

[Phileas Fogg]

2 minutes ago, The hand of RO'D said:

Sorry made that part as clear as mud!

I meant do we need to take advantage of Tammy for this one season! I know there isn't a hope in hell signing him so was just asking if we should take advantage of what he'll bring to us for this one season and go for promotion.

Still not quite sure what you're asking? Surely you take advantage of any player you have on loan simply by having them

[ChippenhamRed]

3 minutes ago, The hand of RO'D said:

Sorry made that part as clear as mud!

I meant do we need to take advantage of Tammy for this one season! I know there isn't a hope in hell signing him so was just asking if we should take advantage of what he'll bring to us for this one season and go for promotion.

I thought it was perfectly clear what you were saying.

[MC RISK77]

3 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

At what point did he suggest we should buy Tammy? He's suggesting we should push for promotion while he is here and we still have the benefit of his goals.

No wonder some people don't post on here when someone comes up with an interesting angle and gets this sort of grief straight away.

He admitted it wasn't very clear which it wasn't.

i then asked what he meant to which poster clarified.

not the issue you have made it to be really was it?

 

 

[Akira]

Wow, I thought the post was clear as day! Obviously at the start of the season, top 6 would of been a great target, now, with such an immense start, and with players on form, yeah, pushing for promo is definitely something we should try and aim for! 

[reddogkev]

I mentioned yesterday on some thread somewhere that I believe we can finish in the top six, and TA's goals may well be the main reason.

If he keeps up his incredible goal tally, perhaps he'll be the difference maker in the final few matches.   Looking ahead massively, I imagine he'd cherish strutting his stuff at Wembley!

[ChippenhamRed]

I think the OP makes a very interesting point. Tammy is currently on course for 30 goals plus this season. That's going to be hugely difficult to replace and, assuming he leaves next summer, we are going to be made weaker by his absence next season. So, is this actually our best chance for promotion this year, and if we're in the promotion mix come January do we make a big push and buy even better players in January? Not sure what the answer is to that but it's certainly an interesting debate.

I've seen it said many times on here that we paid the price in 2008 for not strengthening in January.

[MC RISK77]

7 minutes ago, The hand of RO'D said:

Sorry made that part as clear as mud!

I meant do we need to take advantage of Tammy for this one season! I know there isn't a hope in hell signing him so was just asking if we should take advantage of what he'll bring to us for this one season and go for promotion.

Think we are very capable of a sustained promotion push we have the best squad I can remember and Tammy is the icing on the cake.

as RR said we may have a chance of keeping Tammy another year but can only see that if we go up to prem as his natural progression will be playing for a smaller prem club to get some experience in the top league before Chelsea decide if he is good enough or not.

[Phileas Fogg]

Apologies, I've re-read it and I understand what you're saying now! 

Well of course we should push for promotion, as every team should. The likelihood is we will have to replace what looks to be a 20-25 goal a season striker next year which is a big ask. Could well have to replace Wilbraham too. 

If we are in the top 6 come January I expect LJ to be backed for whoever he wants - within reason. So yes, in answer to your main point we should.

I feel our attacking midfield options are really strong now, we probably do need another forward in case Abraham loses form or gets a knock. 

[havanatopia]

A striker in Jan to bed him in for the Prem you mean Phil?

I likes it I does.

[RedEyez]

If City are still a championship team next season then I expect to see him on loan again but at a lower placed prem team. If City happen to somehow get promoted this season then i think we would have a fantastic chance at retaining his services for another year. Then who knows!

[The hand of RO'D]

2 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

I think the OP makes a very interesting point. Tammy is currently on course for 30 goals plus this season. That's going to be hugely difficult to replace and, assuming he leaves next summer, we are going to be made weaker by his absence next season. So, is this actually our best chance for promotion this year, and if we're in the promotion mix come January do we make a big push and buy even better players in January? Not sure what the answer is to that but it's certainly an interesting debate.

I've seen it said many times on here that we paid the price in 2008 for not strengthening in January.

This is basically the point I was trying to make thanks ChippenhamRed!

Ive been a part of many forums and this seems to be my problem, I waffle a lot but don't actually put what I'm getting at in my posts, so thanks for your help 

[ChippenhamRed]

3 minutes ago, The hand of RO'D said:

This is basically the point I was trying to make thanks ChippenhamRed!

Ive been a part of many forums and this seems to be my problem, I waffle a lot but don't actually put what I'm getting at in my posts, so thanks for your help 

I think you're being too harsh on yourself and you're too quick to apologise, you made a good point!

[Red Army 75]

I don't think anyone thought Tammy would be this prolific. With kodjia leaving as well Tammy really has stepped up . Of course we have to take advantage of him being here . People saying we're not ready for promotion I don't get that . I'm sure SL is ready for promotion. Not saying we will of course. 

[screech]

I would guess we will have to add at least another striker in January, we are obviously losing Abraham in the summer and maybe Wilbraham may decide that's it for him. So we could be looking at starting next season with the return of Burns and Engvall as our strikers. Whether we have the financial scope in January to add a successor to Abraham that fits FFP to compliment him to help our chances I don't know.

We have to fit in to the model or we can risk having a transfer embargo somewhere down the line. We have spent quite big this year already, It may be the case Kodjias deal has cancelled all that out already though.

[Major Isewater]

48 minutes ago, The hand of RO'D said:

Sorry made that part as clear as mud!

I meant do we need to take advantage of Tammy for this one season! I know there isn't a hope in hell signing him so was just asking if we should take advantage of what he'll bring to us for this one season and go for promotion.

I understood completely and was just thinking the same .

Promotions are often on the back of an extraordinary season for a forward player , given that the rest of the team is solid . Means that a boring nil - nil can suddenly become 1-0 and three points from one moment of magic .

So the answer from me is damn right we should go for it and I think , if he keeps his form going , that we can do it .

Our results are starting to look like the results of our last great campaign to reach the top division.

We mostly won by the odd goal and we're defensively solid .

I'm going to lie down now .

[Son of Fred]

1 hour ago, MC RISK77 said:

Not quite sure what you are asking us here. Are you suggesting we try and buy Tammy Abraham? if so you are bonkers won't ever happen. 

Or are you suggesting we buy more players in January?

oh and we didn't find Tammy, Chelsea did.

You said it... At some point,obviously we need to invest fairly heavily in a quality striker.January may not be the best time to buy,but if the right man is available then why not??

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

1 hour ago, reddogkev said:

I mentioned yesterday on some thread somewhere that I believe we can finish in the top six, and TA's goals may well be the main reason.

If he keeps up his incredible goal tally, perhaps he'll be the difference maker in the final few matches.   Looking ahead massively, I imagine he'd cherish strutting his stuff at Wembley!

He'll be a Wembley old hand, after we've won the League Cup

[samo II]

Right now I think it is wise to keep taking it a game at a time regards the potential of this squad.

Next batch of league fixtures will for me give us a much better guide as to how we can fair, as we're playing a number of games where we struggled last season.

- 15/16 results of our Oct/Nov league fixtures 

Cardiff (A) 0-0

QPR (A) 0-1

Blackburn (H) 2-2

Barnsley (A) none - equivalent fixture Bolton (A) 0-0

Brighton (H) 0-4

Birmingham (A) 2-4

Reading (A) 0-1

So in the same fixtures last season (and I've counted as being Bolton away as they went down bottom last year while Barnsley won the 'third' promotion position via the playoffs) we got a total of just 3 points from 21 points.

I really hope we can improve on that, and I'd suggest that 10-12 points m from that group of matches would be phenomenal work, leaving us with 30-32 points from 18 matches, which I think is playoff form.

Realistically we may well fall short of that, and I don't think there would be much shame in that, but that might give us a clearer view of the potential of the side.

My only hope is the players off to represent their nations these two weeks stay fit, our injured/unfit players come back into contention by the time Cardiff away comes around, and we can kick off the busy period after the enforced pause (including that home cup match with Hull) with a victory against the Welsh.

[Kingswoodactor]

1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Apologies, I've re-read it and I understand what you're saying now! 

Well of course we should push for promotion, as every team should. The likelihood is we will have to replace what looks to be a 20-25 goal a season striker next year which is a big ask. Could well have to replace Wilbraham too. 

If we are in the top 6 come January I expect LJ to be backed for whoever he wants - within reason. So yes, in answer to your main point we should.

I feel our attacking midfield options are really strong now, we probably do need another forward in case Abraham loses form or gets a knock. 

We probably need another forward? We spent over 2 million on Gustav! We've not seen what he can do at all yet. Really hope he get's fully fit soon, as I'm sure we're all keen to see him in action in the Championship. 

[Tipps69]

I get what you're saying, if we get promotion now now, are we ready? Will we get walked all over & be relegated back to The Championship?

We probably aren't as ready as we'd like to be, I'm sure LJ would like to have "his own" 20 goal a season striker on board & as he said when he joined, it will probably take 3 transfer windows before he has "his squad". But if we don't take the opportunity while it's there, it may be another 8 years before we are in a position to challenge again (while Villa & Derby's spending power get them to where they expect to be). The money made from a season in The Premier League will mean that we would be in a position to improve the whole infrastructure of the club & improve everything without having to rely on SL's money (which is what SL wants, self sustainability). As long as we don't go silly with ridiculously expensive contracts & get stuck with (as Leeds did) if we get relegated, then the club would be in a much better all round position (along with parachute payments to help).

Just look at Burnley, been promoted a couple of times in recent history but never really lost any players when they got relegated & as a club they have grown year on year & no doubt their finances have grown as well, they've never over spent on transfer fees & in which case wages haven't got out of control either (even when relegated to The Championship). If they hadn't grasped promotion when it was available, there's no knowing where they could be now as they certainly weren't classed as a big club in comparison to the likes of Aston Villa etc.

[cidered abroad]

Of course we should go for as high a finish as possible. If we tell the squad, even if it's just by implication, that we don't want it this year but next year, we will end up losing more than we win and finish below half way. 

We must push for it because even if we don't achieve the jump up, it will not be seen as a failure but proof that the building blocks are settling nicely into place. Ideally, next season would be the best because it would give us another three windows to recruit.

If we did go this season, we should take comfort from teams like Burnley and Norwich that an immediate relegation is not the end of the world. You don't spend stupid money on over the hill money grubbing ex internationals like we have done in the past. And you make sure that the support gained by the initial promotion, is not lost the following season by ensuring that everyone who follows the club understands that there is a strategy, a plan for sustainable growth.  

You regroup, sell one or two to pay for the next recruitment and go again.

 

[screech]

11 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

You regroup, sell one or two to pay for the next recruitment and go again.

 

This is exactly what the Forest fans are complaining about now, they have sold their best players but haven't been able to replace them with suitable quality.

[JoeAman08]

I think promotion should always be the aim. I get what you're saying though and you're spot on. You have to take advantage of a top goal scorer. A 20 goal scorer on this team can make us absolutely lethal. It's not even the volume of goals, it's the goals being scored. Yesterday for example, not much in the way of true opportunities to score but TA had a half chance and scored it. He gives us a chance in any game we've played and will play. We are still without our best RB and a starting calibre midfielder as well. We have to push this year. A playoff run only helps us replace anybody that leaves including TA. 

39 minutes ago, samo II said:

Right now I think it is wise to keep taking it a game at a time regards the potential of this squad.

Next batch of league fixtures will for me give us a much better guide as to how we can fair, as we're playing a number of games where we struggled last season.

- 15/16 results of our Oct/Nov league fixtures 

Cardiff (A) 0-0

QPR (A) 0-1

Blackburn (H) 2-2

Barnsley (A) none - equivalent fixture Bolton (A) 0-0

Brighton (H) 0-4

Birmingham (A) 2-4

Reading (A) 0-1

So in the same fixtures last season (and I've counted as being Bolton away as they went down bottom last year while Barnsley won the 'third' promotion position via the playoffs) we got a total of just 3 points from 21 points.

I really hope we can improve on that, and I'd suggest that 10-12 points m from that group of matches would be phenomenal work, leaving us with 30-32 points from 18 matches, which I think is playoff form.

Realistically we may well fall short of that, and I don't think there would be much shame in that, but that might give us a clearer view of the potential of the side.

My only hope is the players off to represent their nations these two weeks stay fit, our injured/unfit players come back into contention by the time Cardiff away comes around, and we can kick off the busy period after the enforced pause (including that home cup match with Hull) with a victory against the Welsh.

I agree with you but it's hard not to be excited. This next bunch of games will tell us a lot more about the squad but we do know quite a bit about them. I saw someone post the other day that we've only played 3 top half teams and lost all 3. We did play well for spells in all those games though. As for bottom half teams, we've taken 20 of 24 points available. We can only beat what's in front of us. So we are taking care of the teams we should beat and that's a good sign. I've seen us dominate teams and I've seen us withstand pressure with both yielding results. This team is learning how to win and close out games. It'll only help us in the future no matter who we play because we've seen we can give even the top teams a game. 

[Cider_boy]

15 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

I get what you're saying, if we get promotion now now, are we ready? Will we get walked all over & be relegated back to The Championship?

We probably aren't as ready as we'd like to be, I'm sure LJ would like to have "his own" 20 goal a season striker on board & as he said when he joined, it will probably take 3 transfer windows before he has "his squad". But if we don't take the opportunity while it's there, it may be another 8 years before we are in a position to challenge again (while Villa & Derby's spending power get them to where they expect to be). The money made from a season in The Premier League will mean that we would be in a position to improve the whole infrastructure of the club & improve everything without having to rely on SL's money (which is what SL wants, self sustainability). As long as we don't go silly with ridiculously expensive contracts & get stuck with (as Leeds did) if we get relegated, then the club would be in a much better all round position (along with parachute payments to help).

 

This.

The next logical step from the 'business' point of view is to get one season in the Prem (but not getting there 'at all costs'), so that we are in that group of Championship clubs with Prem money and parachute payments, that can compete for signings that we can't currently compete for.

With SL at the top and the likes of Ashton controlling things, I am sure that any such windfall would now be sensibly invested in the club including upgrading 'playing staff' (or 'players' as fans call them, but this is business*) where needed. That's the sort of money that would have helped us land Gayle when we wanted to (but would still not be enough to land Tammy!)

 

*and we now appear to have good people running the business side of things, leaving good football people to run the football side of things.