LJ take a bow

[Major Isewater]

LJ is a top guy, he acknowledges that the groundwork for today's success was started with the much criticised SOD  and Cotts .

Johnson is an intelligent and generous person and if there are still pockets of bitterness at the club this goes à long way to soothing the negativity.

[Robbored]

What negatively?

Sure....he wasn't the first choice of many fans back in February but so far he's proved to be an astute appointment. Congrats should go to SL fo recognising  LJs ability and instructing Mark Ashton to recruit him.

LJ is very adept in dealing with the media and  comes over in a very frank manner whether it's on the back of a win,loss or draw. In that regard he's different to many managers. He's honest and tells it as he sees it. That's a great quality in any manager.

Hes got a 3 year contact but what would happen if City went on a dismal run of results over a period of 20 odd games and slid down the league into the drop zone?

The bottom line is that football is a results game and if you're not getting them it's always the manager who loses his job.

Personally I'd love to see him become like Arsen Wenger in terms of length of time at one club but to do that you have to produce consistent results season after season.....

 

[Nogbad the Bad]

52 minutes ago, Robbored said:

What negatively?

Sure....he wasn't the first choice of many fans back in February but so far he's proved to be an astute appointment. Congrats should go to SL fo recognising  LJs ability and instructing Mark Ashton to recruit him.

LJ is very adept in dealing with the media and  comes over in a very frank manner whether it's on the back of a win,loss or draw. In that regard he's different to many managers. He's honest and tells it as he sees it. That's a great quality in any manager.

Hes got a 3 year contact but what would happen if City went on a dismal run of results over a period of 20 odd games and slid down the league into the drop zone?

The bottom line is that football is a results game and if you're not getting them it's always the manager who loses his job.

Personally I'd love to see him become like Arsen Wenger in terms of length of time at one club but to do that you have to produce consistent results season after season.....

 

Dismal 20 game run?  We'd almost certainly be relegated if no action had been taken.

However much SL likes and rates LJ, and envisages him being here for the long term, that goodwill wouldn't endure if the plan, and project, went wildly off course.

The prospect of another relegation wouldn't be tolerated, and, however reluctantly, change would be made well before 20 games.

 

 

[Kingswoodactor]

2 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

LJ is a top guy, he acknowledges that the groundwork for today's success was started with the much criticised SOD  and Cotts .

Johnson is an intelligent and generous person and if there are still pockets of bitterness at the club this goes à long way to soothing the negativity.

Cotts, yes.

I can't let you have SOD. Possibly some of the worst football I've ever seen down at the gate in my lifetime. Yes, he may have signed Flint (I think), and he may have contributed to some of the good work behind the scenes; but the man was absolute dross, and will always be remembered by me as nothing less than a complete basket case.

[ashton_fan]

I'm glad he mentioned SO'D as well as Cotts, although the style of football we played under him was too slow and laborious he did sign Flint, Frankie, JET, and Pack during his one transfer window and gave Bobby Reid and Joe Bryan their chance in the first team

[Nogbad the Bad]

'Sean O'Driscoll was the first to tackle the problem of older players on long contracts. He moved alot of those on..'

Bit too much credit for SO'D here, surely McInnes started that process?

[ashton_fan]

1 minute ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

'Sean O'Driscoll was the first to tackle the problem of older players on long contracts. He moved alot of those on..'

Bit too much credit for SO'D here, surely McInnes started that process?

McInnes was guilty of bringing in a lot of dross on high wages, remember Ricky Foster amongst others?

[Nogbad the Bad]

3 minutes ago, ashton_fan said:

McInnes was guilty of bringing in a lot of dross on high wages, remember Ricky Foster amongst others?

I don't know if Foster was on high wages, but I wouldn't dispute that not every signing Mcinnes made was a good one.

He did however clear out much of the dross accumulated under several managers before his arrival.

It's hard to remember exactly which players left under each manager, but my recollection is that Del got rid of alot of players, so the process of chopping the dead wood started under him rather than SO'D.

That's my point.

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/bristol-city-manager-derek-mcinnes-lets-rip/story-28722363-detail/story.html

[Super]

Tbh I couldn't care less who SOD signed, the style of football was the worst I have seen still thinking back to Sheffield United at home how I stayed for the 90 minutes i'll never know.

[Red Rag]

Under Sod I just did not want to go to the gate anymore. Enough said.

[Port Said Red]

38 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

'Sean O'Driscoll was the first to tackle the problem of older players on long contracts. He moved alot of those on..'

Bit too much credit for SO'D here, surely McInnes started that process?

 

36 minutes ago, ashton_fan said:

McInnes was guilty of bringing in a lot of dross on high wages, remember Ricky Foster amongst others?

I think both of these guys were given too much work to do to try and get the backroom and structure of the club up to scratch in a unhelpful environment. I think we needed a Mark Ashton long before we got one.  

[Unan]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

What negatively?

Sure....he wasn't the first choice of many fans back in February but so far he's proved to be an astute appointment. Congrats should go to SL fo recognising  LJs ability and instructing Mark Ashton to recruit him.

LJ is very adept in dealing with the media and  comes over in a very frank manner whether it's on the back of a win,loss or draw. In that regard he's different to many managers. He's honest and tells it as he sees it. That's a great quality in any manager.

Hes got a 3 year contact but what would happen if City went on a dismal run of results over a period of 20 odd games and slid down the league into the drop zone?

The bottom line is that football is a results game and if you're not getting them it's always the manager who loses his job.

Personally I'd love to see him become like Arsen Wenger in terms of length of time at one club but to do that you have to produce consistent results season after season.....

 

Consistently 4th, that'll do in the SBC.

[Kid in the Riot]

55 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

'Sean O'Driscoll was the first to tackle the problem of older players on long contracts. He moved alot of those on..'

Bit too much credit for SO'D here, surely McInnes started that process?

McInnes signed a fair bit of dross on lengthy contracts. Our wage bill was still massive when he left the club. He made small inroads maybe, but it was definitely SOD who was tasked with dramatically reducing the clubs wage bill and he did that successfully if nothing else.

[Nogbad the Bad]

8 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

McInnes signed a fair bit of dross on lengthy contracts. Our wage bill was still massive when he left the club. He made small inroads maybe, but it was definitely SOD who was tasked with dramatically reducing the clubs wage bill and he did that successfully if nothing else.

I'm not sure I can agree with that, but, as I said it's hard to remember exactly who departed under each manager.

My recollection is that we had accumulated a very large and unwieldy squad at the time of McInnes' arrival and he notably tried to get rid of as much inherited dead wood as possible in his 15 months. I suspect he was also tasked to do so.

It would be very interesting to see the squads inherited by each of the 2 managers, and a further list of the players each succeeded in shedding during their tenures.

[Major Isewater]

2 hours ago, Robbored said:

What negatively?

Sure....he wasn't the first choice of many fans back in February but so far he's proved to be an astute appointment. Congrats should go to SL fo recognising  LJs ability and instructing Mark Ashton to recruit him.

LJ is very adept in dealing with the media and  comes over in a very frank manner whether it's on the back of a win,loss or draw. In that regard he's different to many managers. He's honest and tells it as he sees it. That's a great quality in any manager.

Hes got a 3 year contact but what would happen if City went on a dismal run of results over a period of 20 odd games and slid down the league into the drop zone?

The bottom line is that football is a results game and if you're not getting them it's always the manager who loses his job.

Personally I'd love to see him become like Arsen Wenger in terms of length of time at one club but to do that you have to produce consistent results season after season.....

 

I'm referring to the negativity that still exists amongst certain supporters and perhaps members of staff concerning the managers LJ spoke about .

They have both created  conflict during and in the wake of their tenures and our coach has acknowledged the fact that they have also been responsible for where we are now .

Therefore we should forgive SOD and Cotts for the bad stuff and be thankful for the good . Let go the negativity and unite.

LJ impresses me .

[Major Isewater]

24 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

McInnes signed a fair bit of dross on lengthy contracts. Our wage bill was still massive when he left the club. He made small inroads maybe, but it was definitely SOD who was tasked with dramatically reducing the clubs wage bill and he did that successfully if nothing else.

I would argue that he also got the club thinking about how to succeed. 

 

 

[Unan]

Stupid question 

[Up The City!]

52 minutes ago, Super said:

Tbh I couldn't care less who SOD signed, the style of football was the worst I have seen still thinking back to Sheffield United at home how I stayed for the 90 minutes i'll never know.

That's a very narrow minded view to have. Take Flint out and I'm not quite sure we would be where we are today.

[Super]

3 minutes ago, Up The City! said:

That's a very narrow minded view to have. Take Flint out and I'm not quite sure we would be where we are today.

Don't agree with that at all. Had we kept SOD we would of been relegated to league 2 and who knows where this club would be now.

[Up The City!]

4 minutes ago, Super said:

Don't agree with that at all. Had we kept SOD we would of been relegated to league 2 and who knows where this club would be now.

But no one is suggesting we should have kept Sod. We are saying he laid some of the foundations for our successes. 

[Unan]

15 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

I couldn't care less about the 2014/15 season, Cotts lashing out at some of our fans in one of his last games was unforgivable.

Is the above a stupid statement? Of course it is, with every single manager there is a bigger picture. The SOD regime was very healthy for our club, even if he didn't get good results on the pitch as a manager.

Likewise it would be stupid for any City fan to hold the above incident by Cotterill as something to bang on about at every time they could.

It says a lot when both managers to follow SOD have praised the behind the scenes work that he did. And I would suggest they are in a far better position to make any comment there than you or I.

 

(I also believe Pembo was brought in by SOD)

One outburst by SC can't possibly be compared to all of the football SOD had us playing, Shirley not?

[Kid in the Riot]

24 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

I'm not sure I can agree with that, but, as I said it's hard to remember exactly who departed under each manager.

My recollection is that we had accumulated a very large and unwieldy squad at the time of McInnes' arrival and he notably tried to get rid of as much inherited dead wood as possible in his 15 months. I suspect he was also tasked to do so.

It would be very interesting to see the squads inherited by each of the 2 managers, and a further list of the players each succeeded in shedding during their tenures.

Like you, I find it difficult to recall exact details of who was coming and going at that time.

What I can recall is that the year before McInnes arrived our wage bill was spiraling out of control at something like £18m per annum. McInnes made a claim just after he left City I believe that during his tenure at City he "had halved the wage bill" which turned out to be nonsense when the club's accounts were revealed. He has reduced it only marginally over his time with the club.

Our recruitment was a complete mess under him as well and I know McInnes made it aware to his paymasters that he needed help but didn't receive any. He signed Steven Davies, half decent player, terrible attitude and turned down the opportunity to sign Flint.

It was really only when SOD came in that things started to change for the better and so I can see what LJ is getting at with his comments.

[123456789000]

1 hour ago, Griffin said:

Consistently 4th, that'll do in the SBC.

Don't you start as well...

[Robin 101]

Never felt more deprested by a city manager than so`d however think he had probably the hardest job of any city manager in the last decade and did set some foundations for the success we've had under better managers since

[Phileas Fogg]

I'm not sure if it's just our club, but I really feel like our fans want the manager at any given time to be particularly proud and enthusiastic about being Bristol City manager.

I wonder if this is partly because we're a proud city but feel overlooked in football terms. We know the city is big, we know the money is there and now we can be pretty sure we'd average good crowds if promoted. Despite what we know, we're perennially ignored and patronised. I think our fans take particular offence when fans of clubs like Fulham and Forest believe we should just roll over as 'little' Bristol City. 

We're pretty unique in being such a massive city with such a poor football team. I really think this means we want our managers to be particularly proud to be here, more than fans of other clubs because our support feels as a club we've been overlooked down to our mediocrity.

I thought SO'D would turn it round eventually, not as quickly as Cotterill did though. I think he did lots of the nasty work that helped lay the foundations for our success now. Something I never got from him though was a sense of pride in being our manager, he's dour and his public persona is uninspiring. I thought his condemnation of the post-Rovers pitch invasion was poor pr and came across really badly.

Then came Cotterill who I felt showed more of this pride that we want. He's kind of from the area and his natural passion and exuberance for management is clear. This was an opposite to SO'D and coupled with success our fans liked it a lot. 

Now we've got LJ, he's got the forward thinking ideas and in my opinion will have more success as a manager over his career than Cotterill. Crucially, for us, he loves the club. His dad is a legend here and I really feel like he's invested in our project. All three have done their bit in some way or another. I'm really glad now though that we've got a youthful, inspiring man who loves being Bristol City manager.

[Port Said Red]

5 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

LJ is a top guy, he acknowledges that the groundwork for today's success was started with the much criticised SOD  and Cotts .

Johnson is an intelligent and generous person and if there are still pockets of bitterness at the club this goes à long way to soothing the negativity.

Suggesting a song for LJ in your title Major?

 

[Ivorguy]

I think SO'D was simply in the wrong post.  He clearly found man management difficult but I learnt a great deal by his post match comments.  He is a great analyser of the game.

As for SC I never liked him - too much the know all.  Fine when you are winning and totally disastrous when you are not

Seems to me Lee is good with the Press, an excellent man manager, a good thinker about the game and an innovative coach.  I rated him from the first and believe he can get us promotion. After all if his Dad came within 90 minutes of doing so my money is very definitely on the son to do it

 

 

[Monkeh]

2 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

I don't know if Foster was on high wages, but I wouldn't dispute that not every signing Mcinnes made was a good one.

He did however clear out much of the dross accumulated under several managers before his arrival.

It's hard to remember exactly which players left under each manager, but my recollection is that Del got rid of alot of players, so the process of chopping the dead wood started under him rather than SO'D.

That's my point.

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/bristol-city-manager-derek-mcinnes-lets-rip/story-28722363-detail/story.html

and added McManus, Forster Clarkson Pearson Morris Wilson and bates

[BCFC_Dan]

O'Driscoll seems to be remembered for the last few months of his tenure which was, as final months tend to be, abysmal. However, the first couple of months were actually pretty good.

I've pointed out on here before just how crucial the injury to Jon Stead and subsequent defeat at Wolves were. During the period between SO'D taking over and Stead getting injured we took 17 points from 11 games. That's just 3 fewer than we've taken in the opening 11 games of this season. After the injury we took 2 points from the remaining 9 games.

I don't say this to defend O'Driscoll particularly. Bad things happen and it's the manager's job to deal with them and he had a whole new squad to work with the next season so he doesn't get excused that. But it's worth remembering that he was producing playoff form prior to the injury and who knows what would have happened without that injury.

[Monkeh]

9 minutes ago, BCFC_Dan said:

O'Driscoll seems to be remembered for the last few months of his tenure which was, as final months tend to be, abysmal. However, the first couple of months were actually pretty good.

I've pointed out on here before just how crucial the injury to Jon Stead and subsequent defeat at Wolves were. During the period between SO'D taking over and Stead getting injured we took 17 points from 11 games. That's just 3 fewer than we've taken in the opening 11 games of this season. After the injury we took 2 points from the remaining 9 games.

I don't say this to defend O'Driscoll particularly. Bad things happen and it's the manager's job to deal with them and he had a whole new squad to work with the next season so he doesn't get excused that. But it's worth remembering that he was producing playoff form prior to the injury and who knows what would have happened without that injury.

no it wasn't we won 3 games in the first couple of months under SoD, when he took charge he had 19 games to save us, we won 5 drew 4 lost 10, getting hammered by charlton huddlesfield Derby, taking 19 points

I never saw a Bristol City team give up before SoD,

He was a disaster full stop, no amount of re-writing history or supposed off field work will change that,

 

It can be comparable with Johnson taking over as they had a similar amount of games (you can include the charlton game but I won't,

Johnson had 16 games winning winning 7 drawing 3 losing 6 taking 24 points (or 27 including charlton)

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Super said:

Tbh I couldn't care less who SOD signed, the style of football was the worst I have seen still thinking back to Sheffield United at home how I stayed for the 90 minutes i'll never know.

 

1 hour ago, Up The City! said:

That's a very narrow minded view to have. Take Flint out and I'm not quite sure we would be where we are today.

It's not narrow minded when you take in to account SOD was annoyed we had signed Flint for so much and said he wouldn't have paid as much for him. It's hard to give him credit given he didn't even see £300k value in Aden Flint!

2 wins in 18. That's all I will remember SOD for. Nothing more.

[steviestevieneville]

3 hours ago, Kingswoodactor said:

Cotts, yes.

I can't let you have SOD. Possibly some of the worst football I've ever seen down at the gate in my lifetime. Yes, he may have signed Flint (I think), and he may have contributed to some of the good work behind the scenes; but the man was absolute dross, and will always be remembered by me as nothing less than a complete basket case.

You have to look beyond what happened on the pitch. We had a massive unbalanced squad and he shifted out a lot of dead wood on high wages and started to bring in younger players. Yes his style of play wasn't great but he had a very difficult job . If cotts or LJ  had the squad we got relegated with they would of both struggled. The club was in a mess. 

[Monkeh]

1 minute ago, steviestevieneville said:

You have to look beyond what happened on the pitch. We had a massive unbalanced squad and he shifted out a lot of dead wood on high wages and started to bring in younger players. Yes his style of play wasn't great but he had a very difficult job . If cotts or LJ  had the squad we got relegated with they would of both struggled. The club was in a mess. 

young players like Brian Howard marlon Harewood and Nicky Shorey?

Cotts did have that squad and saved us getting us to finish mid table

[steviestevieneville]

Flint, jet, pack . The young midfielder from Arsenal (name escapes me) did del Williams join from villa under him as well ? Those you mention were all short term deals not deals that would screw us financially 

[ollywhyte]

4 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Flint, jet, pack . The young midfielder from Arsenal (name escapes me) did del Williams join from villa under him as well ? Those you mention were all short term deals not deals that would screw us financially 

Jordan Wynter

[Bs4Red]

3 hours ago, Kingswoodactor said:

Cotts, yes.

I can't let you have SOD. Possibly some of the worst football I've ever seen down at the gate in my lifetime. Yes, he may have signed Flint (I think), and he may have contributed to some of the good work behind the scenes; but the man was absolute dross, and will always be remembered by me as nothing less than a complete basket case.

Isn't up to you t let anyone have anything. The football was terrible, but some of the things he implimented in his time here have dramatically moved the club forward. Just because you didn't like the bloke doesn't mean he shouldn't be respected and appreciated for the good things he did. What a stupid thing to say 

[BCFC_Dan]

55 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

no it wasn't we won 3 games in the first couple of months under SoD, when he took charge he had 19 games to save us, we won 5 drew 4 lost 10, getting hammered by charlton huddlesfield Derby, taking 19 points

In the first couple of months i.e. January 14th when he took over to March 9th when Stead got injured we won 5 out of 11.

In the remainder of the season we lost 7 out of 9, including those defeats you mention.

You're not wrong about them giving up and that being unforgivable. But prior to Stead getting injured things weren't just better, they were actually pretty good, superficially at least.

[Lew-T]

All I want to know is.. Who signed Ryan McGivern?!

[Lew-T]

1 hour ago, Monkeh said:

and added McManus, Forster Clarkson Pearson Morris Wilson and bates

I thought Pearson was a decent addition. 

[BS4 on Tour...]

3 hours ago, Griffin said:

Consistently 4th, that'll do in the SBC.

Arsenal have only finished 4th six times under Wenger - the other 14 seasons they've been 3rd or above - phenomenal record...

[Unan]

2 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Arsenal have only finished 4th six times under Wenger - the other 14 seasons they've been 3rd or above - phenomenal record...

It was a joke anyway

[Super]

1 hour ago, ollywhyte said:

Jordan Wynter

And where is he now?

[Selred]

8 minutes ago, Super said:

And where is he now?

Released by Cheltenham I think. 

I had high hopes for him, looked a very good player in his brief time here. Very odd.

[petehinton]

No sympathy at all for McInnes. He can cry and moan about the 'big squad', but he was the one who signed McGivern, McManus (on loan, twice, including making him captain), Foster, Jody Morris....spanked £3m on Davies and Baldock when we were crying out for two CBs. Changed our defensive line every game.

I'd say those things are equally as damning as joining a club on a big wage bill. I doubt Baldock/Davies and the wages of the multiple loan signings he made helped that at all.

[Super]

8 minutes ago, Selred said:

Released by Cheltenham I think. 

I had high hopes for him, looked a very good player in his brief time here. Very odd.

I think it was more that he came from Arsenal we thought he would be good. Now at AFC Telford.

[city1983]

4 hours ago, Super said:

Tbh I couldn't care less who SOD signed, the style of football was the worst I have seen still thinking back to Sheffield United at home how I stayed for the 90 minutes i'll never know.

This

the football during his tenure, and his post match interviews made me want to slit my wrists.

I've never seen a team get relegated with such a whimper as when he took over, and barely improved the following season.

[reddoh]

57 minutes ago, Super said:

And where is he now?

last time I saw him live, was for Telford (non league) their fans thought he was poor

[Major Isewater]

5 minutes ago, reddoh said:

last time I saw him live, was for Telford (non league) their fans thought he was poor

Wynter of  discontent.

[Monkeh]

20 minutes ago, reddoh said:

last time I saw him live, was for Telford (non league) their fans thought he was poor

to be fair I don't mind taking a punt on a young player, we gave him a chance and he wasn't good enough, nothing wrong with that, you never know where the next vardy will come from,

[Robbored]

5 hours ago, Griffin said:

Consistently 4th, 

And consistently in the Champions Cup.

[Unan]

1 minute ago, Robbored said:

And consistently in the Champions Cup.

And consistently still a joke 

[Super]

3 minutes ago, Robbored said:

And consistently in the Champions Cup.

And consistently failing in it.

[Unan]

Mad how the rest of this thread will consistently have that word in each post.

[ashton_fan]

6 minutes ago, Super said:

And consistently failing in it.

Qualifying from your Group isn't a failure, only one team in Europe can win the Trophy, does that make every other club a failure?

[Super]

5 minutes ago, ashton_fan said:

Qualifying from your Group isn't a failure, only one team in Europe can win the Trophy, does that make every other club a failure?

I like Wenger but they are further away from winning it now than they have ever been.

[ashton_fan]

2 minutes ago, Super said:

I like Wenger but they are further away from winning it now than they have ever been.

That's because they don't spend money they haven't earned unlike most of the others who have rich owners who pump money in like there's no tomorrow. Those clubs rise and fall, but Arsenal are consistently near the top as they live within their means.

[Murraysrightplum]

I remember when everyone wanted LJ to take an arrow

[Nogbad the Bad]

4 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Like you, I find it difficult to recall exact details of who was coming and going at that time.

What I can recall is that the year before McInnes arrived our wage bill was spiraling out of control at something like £18m per annum. McInnes made a claim just after he left City I believe that during his tenure at City he "had halved the wage bill" which turned out to be nonsense when the club's accounts were revealed. He has reduced it only marginally over his time with the club.

Our recruitment was a complete mess under him as well and I know McInnes made it aware to his paymasters that he needed help but didn't receive any.

It was really only when SOD came in that things started to change for the better and so I can see what LJ is getting at with his comments.

I'm not going to answer on behalf of McInnes on your insistence he was exaggerating when he said he'd halved the wage bill.

I've no idea, and that's not what we're discussing.

LJ has said O'Driscoll 'was the first to tackle the problem of older players on long contracts. He moved alot of those on..'

You yourself said McInnes made inroads in that respect, my own recollection was he made substantial inroads, but either way we can at least agree that he made some inroads and when LJ states SO'D was the first to tackle the problem he seems to have overlooked the notable start made by McInnes.

Getting rid of the dead wood he inherited was absolutely a feature of DM's tenure - some may say 1 or 2 of his own signings turned out to add to the diminished logpile, but that's another argument entirely!

 

 

[Nogbad the Bad]

5 hours ago, Monkeh said:

and added McManus, Forster Clarkson Pearson Morris Wilson and bates

I rated Pearson, good player, unlucky with injuries at City.

Morris I think was brought to be DM's eyes and ears in a very suspect dressing room still containing a number of players who had stopped playing for previous managers when it suited them. He certainly didn't turn out to be a good signing.

As for the others, the phrase in question regarding dead wood was 'older players on long contracts.'

Not sure that applies to many of the above, in fact short term loans aren't relevant at all, and Clarkson was signed by Gary Johnson.

[spudski]

I think it's worth mentioning as to what was being asked of each manager, by the owner and board, when they were employed by the Club.

What was the directive and what funds were available.

Each is a different scenario.

When SoD came in, the directive was all about the '5 pillars' and a 'new' direction being taken by the Club.

All very good intentions...but they overlooked the fact, or made a misjudgement, in that they didn't have the 'infrastructure' in place to achieve all that was being asked from the manager.

In SoDs case...he did a lot of good, but at the detriment of first team results.

SC came in an turned the first team round and took advantage of the work behind closed doors to what foundations SoD had put in place.

He continued in that vein for a while...which was according to plan...but then decided he would do it 'his way' rather than what the Clubs blueprint was.

That was the start of it all unravelling...

Now LJ has come in, and it's working again, with the Club and it's blueprint, and everyone is working together. Instead of walking on eggshells, not wanting to upset the manager or the people that matter.

Imo...SoD tried his best, but got frustrated with the lack of infrastructure and professionals in place. He did a lot to improve that...but the first team suffered.

SC bolloxed it up, when he decided to go maverick.

Just my opinion of course ;-)

And FR can bugger off before she say's anything... ;-)

[Port Said Red]

8 minutes ago, spudski said:

I think it's worth mentioning as to what was being asked of each manager, by the owner and board, when they were employed by the Club.

What was the directive and what funds were available.

Each is a different scenario.

When SoD came in, the directive was all about the '5 pillars' and a 'new' direction being taken by the Club.

All very good intentions...but they overlooked the fact, or made a misjudgement, in that they didn't have the 'infrastructure' in place to achieve all that was being asked from the manager.

In SoDs case...he did a lot of good, but at the detriment of first team results.

SC came in an turned the first team round and took advantage of the work behind closed doors to what foundations SoD had put in place.

He continued in that vein for a while...which was according to plan...but then decided he would do it 'his way' rather than what the Clubs blueprint was.

That was the start of it all unravelling...

Now LJ has come in, and it's working again, with the Club and it's blueprint, and everyone is working together. Instead of walking on eggshells, not wanting to upset the manager or the people that matter.

Imo...SoD tried his best, but got frustrated with the lack of infrastructure and professionals in place. He did a lot to improve that...but the first team suffered.

SC bolloxed it up, when he decided to go maverick.

Just my opinion of course ;-)

And FR can bugger off before she say's anything... ;-)

That was the biggest problem, can you imagine LJ having to arrange his own meeting with supporters in a local pub with no representation from the club in support? I remember thinking how much he had been hung out to dry that night.

[ChippenhamRed]

Some interesting stats here:-

http://www.managerstats.co.uk/clubs/bristol-city/

LJ currently has the best win % of literally every manager in our history. His record over 30 games is W16 D5 L9. That's playoff form. Admittedly 30 games isn't the biggest sample size, but it's a hugely impressive start.

[spudski]

6 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Some interesting stats here:-

http://www.managerstats.co.uk/clubs/bristol-city/

LJ currently has the best win % of literally every manager in our history. His record over 30 games is W16 D5 L9. That's playoff form. Admittedly 30 games isn't the biggest sample size, but it's a hugely impressive start.

You can't read too much into those stats, without taking into consideration what was going on at the club at the time, what division they were in, funds available, circumstances etc,etc,etc.

That's the case for ALL managers we've had at the Club.

Without being pedantic...Millen has the best rate.

Regarding the division scenario...SC's was the best win rate by miles in league 1.

But his win rate in the Championship was the lowest of any of our managers regardless of division.

Just goes to show how well he did in that one promotion season to get.

When you take into account all the considerations, I would say Terry Cooper has done the best job asked of anyone, considering circumstances.

[ChippenhamRed]

45 minutes ago, spudski said:

You can't read too much into those stats, without taking into consideration what was going on at the club at the time, what division they were in, funds available, circumstances etc,etc,etc.

That's the case for ALL managers we've had at the Club.

Without being pedantic...Millen has the best rate.

Regarding the division scenario...SC's was the best win rate by miles in league 1.

But his win rate in the Championship was the lowest of any of our managers regardless of division.

Just goes to show how well he did in that one promotion season to get.

When you take into account all the considerations, I would say Terry Cooper has done the best job asked of anyone, considering circumstances.

I'm not suggesting we read too much into it. Of course plenty of other factors influence a manager's record. What it does suggest is that as a club - of which the manager is a part - we are currently heading in the right direction.

Millen's doesn't have the best rate if you look at his overall record across both spells.

[BigTone]

11 hours ago, Robbored said:

 

Personally I'd love to see him become like Arsen Wenger

 

He'll need to work on the French accent

[Robbored]

23 minutes ago, BigTone said:

He'll need to work on the French accent

And his style of play. He'd have to sign the players that can do it first....

[NickJ]

4 hours ago, spudski said:

When you take into account all the considerations, I would say Terry Cooper has done the best job asked of anyone, considering circumstances.

Don't always agree with you but 100% with that.