Time to reflect...

[Charlie BCFC]

Well said striker a must in January with departures of Tammy and Wilbs at the end of the season likely we would be left with Engvall who OH doesn't seem to trust, Garita and Mccoulsky

[Davefevs]

Two home games in the next week.  I think we will know much more after that.  Almost the halfway point too.

I think we all got sucked into the very good start we made, but there is a sense that LJ hasn't found the right formula yet.

Much as I really want to see Engvall partner Abraham, I sense that the crucial player for us is Tomlin, and the player who gets him to tick is Reid.  I think I'd start with the same back 5 (but we'll see if Lucic gets the nod).  Much as I thought Reid couldn't play in a two, I think O'Neil was a good partner early in the season, and that frees Tomlin to play around Abraham, and also get quick passes into him.  I'd like to see Freeman and Bryan (stuttering season so far) in the wide positions.

Having said that I've given up second guessing LJ's selections. 

Going back to Engvall, if LJ does play a two, its got to be him over Wilbs, especially at home.  He looks like he's got clever movement, and sharp over 5 yards.

Roll on Tuesday.  Brentford, all 3 results more than possible....they blow the same temperatures as us.

[Robbored]

27 minutes ago, Red Right Hand said:

I think you`ve hit the nail on the head there. There was so much uproar about Kodjia going that the club felt they had to try and placate the natives and this was pretty much all that they could do.

C o d g e r going to Villa was an offer that simply could not be refused. £15m was a laughable price and well done to City for asking for silly money and getting it.......

Anyway, my point is that for decades City's top strikers have nearly all moved on. Andy Cole, Bob Taylor, Shaun Goater, Maynard to name just four and City have always managed to cope without them.

Kodjia was just another one. No big deal.

In comes Tammy to take up the role of main striker and so far has done a decent job.

But...most of us have maintained that the striker cupboard is currently pretty bare ( which LJ denied ) and as yet Engvall has not been fit enough to seriously challenge Wilbraham for a starting place. Hopefully we'll see another striker during the upcoming window that has already been targeted or"lined up". If not then Des Taylor and LJ himself will have been remiss in their duties.

I wouldn't be even slightly surprised to see a foreign signing in January.

 

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

We are a very, very poor side away from home though..

Just 8 points from 11 games and only 1 in our last 6 away, I expect some will say this is because we have been "unlucky" but apparently that excuse didn't wash last year.

This time last season we had already managed 10, despite much less expenditure and seemingly less cohesion between the owner and manager.

A completely different story at home, of course, which side we end up being more of will decide where this season ends.

Out of interest how were we unlucky away from last season? Barring what I thought was unlucky against Brighton and a couple of good wins away at Boro and Hudds we were extremely poor in one way or another particularly up front. Especially towards the end of Cotterills tenure when we were being beat 4-0 and 3-0 left right and centre. The Reading away game last season was a dire performance in which if it wasn't for woeful finishing by Reading we could've been battered.

Cotterills away record last season was P 13 W 2 D 4 L 7 F 9 A 24. You could argue that we had some decent performances early in the season, I can only remember 4 really (Boro, Brighton, Ipswich & Cardiff) Huddersfield we mugged them for 3 points after playing pretty poorly

[GrahamC]

2 minutes ago, Dark Wood Covert said:

Out of interest how were we unlucky away from last season? Barring what I thought was unlucky against Brighton and a couple of good wins away at Boro and Hudds we were extremely poor in one way or another particularly up front. Especially towards the end of Cotterills tenure when we were being beat 4-0 and 3-0 left right and centre. The Reading away game last season was a dire performance in which if it wasn't for woeful finishing by Reading we could've been battered.

Cotterills away record last season was P 13 W 2 D 4 L 7 F 9 A 24. You could argue that we had some decent performances early in the season, I can only remember 4 really (Boro, Brighton, Ipswich & Cardiff) Huddersfield we mugged them for 3 points after playing pretty poorly

I was looking at the bigger picture, Cotterill repeatedly said we were unlucky (home & away) and it was used as a stick to beat him with.

Johnson's away record this season is W 2 D 2 L 7, which considering the points gained have come at 3 very weak sides Burton, Rotherham & Barnsley (plus Fulham) is simply awful.

Where we are is where we deserve to be, our home form (points wise) is excellent, if it dips then the pressure will really be on not to be dragged into the bottom six.

[Phileas Fogg]

29 minutes ago, Robbored said:

C o d g e r going to Villa was an offer that simply could not be refused. £15m was a laughable price and well done to City for asking for silly money and getting it.......

Anyway, my point is that for decades City's top strikers have nearly all moved on. Andy Cole, Bob Taylor, Shaun Goater, Maynard to name just four and City have always managed to cope without them.

Kodjia was just another one. No big deal.

In comes Tammy to take up the role of main striker and so far has done a decent job.

But...most of us have maintained that the striker cupboard is currently pretty bare ( which LJ denied ) and as yet Engvall has not been fit enough to seriously challenge Wilbraham for a starting place. Hopefully we'll see another striker during the upcoming window that has already been targeted or"lined up". If not then Des Taylor and LJ himself will have been remiss in their duties.

I wouldn't be even slightly surprised to see a foreign signing in January.

 

Thanks for that summary which is pretty much everyone's accepted view about the striker situation.

What we were discussing though was the statements released about Engvall when he joined in relation to his actual playing time.

 

[AshtonGreat]

9 hours ago, spudski said:

...and get real.

Whilst we are all disappointed with yesterdays performance, a bad day at the office all round, was anyone really expecting anymore from our general performances as a whole this season?

We had a cracking start, that got everyone's expectations up, and we've certainly tailed off.

However...no one is battering us, we have dominated certain games, and many points have been lost down to individual errors.

That's the difference between being 14th and 4 points off the play offs...and actually being in the play off places...just 4 points.

We've had one transfer window to work with...we've done massively well in just one year compared to this time last season.

I think we need to realise this...to get even this far in one year is a job well done.

This league is massively tough....in the one transfer window we've had, how would anyone expect any manager to come in and turn us into a high flying top 4 team?

You have to look at this league and see it for what it is. Other teams are having poor patch's with far more experience and money behind them. Norwich for example.

I look at teams below us with far more experience and finance...Forest, QPR, Wolves, Ipswich, Cardiff etc.

Teams like Villa sat next to us. Derby just 2 points.

Whilst we all want to do well and better....we need to be realistic.

This league is one game at a time...win yesterday, we would have been sitting 8th and everyone would have been purring.

It is that close in this league...one win difference between being average or top 8.

On a side note...LJ and his team know exactly where we need to strengthen...Lets hope the right players are available in coming transfer windows.

Just enjoy the ride, of it's ups and downs...be realistic and see we are a team in transformation, and doing better than we have for many, many years.

LJ and his team know where we need to strengthen? I'm not entirely convinced by that statement. We signed several players in the summer and they've been very hit and miss. Engvall has been non-existent, Ekstrand and Matthews weren't fit, Paterson and Brownhill have been so-so. 

[bs20ciderarmy]

9 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

I should clarify that I don't doubt we're in a better position now...

But back then we were playing some good football, we were dominating some established teams without winning (exceedingly bad luck). At time we got hammered, yes, but I think as much as it was about Cotts, it was also about the situation opening the eyes of SL & co about the financial constraints needing to be lifted to be able to compete in this league. Cotts wasn't afforded the same budget. I'm not saying he wasn't stubborn and at times petulant, he was. But the goalposts did change. 

That being said, the overriding sentiment of your post is absolutely valid. We're now in a much better place. And we wouldn't be football fans if we didn't all expect our team to get promoted every year! Especially after that start!

He wasn't afforded the same budget? The board agreed the fees for both clough and Gayle... for that price Johnson got 5-10 players, granted we are still a bit short but we have a very good squad.

[spudski]

23 hours ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

I agree with much of what you say but sadly some of our woes from yesterday are easily remedied and incredibly glaringly obvious, for instance why on earth is Pack allowed to take free kicks? (I won't go into the in's and out's of is he even worth a starting place) yesterday every single one of his free kicks never ended close to a red shirt and 2 in a 10 minute period hit a Huddersfield player barely 10 yards away, our final ball is appalling, Freeman at the moment is getting into good positions but his crossing is woeful, even Reid got into several good positions but the crosses were over hit.

Tomlin should have been replaced at half time it was clear that this was never going to a game for him, a game where we needed all hands to the pump in midfield where we were being overrun and part of that was due to the amount of space that we surrendered in the middle third of the field, their midfield were virtually unmolested in that area all afternoon. He is incredibly gifted but sometimes it's just not going to be his day and yesterday was one of those days, I hope he isn't going to become immovable whatever happens.

Bryan should be our starting left back, after glowing references from LJ about his prowess as a left back, I find it strange that the very average Golbourne played yesterday, Smith is so badly out of sorts at the moment it reminds me of Marvin Elliott's 2nd season with us, I think it was more of a game for Reid yesterday.

I was struggling to work out exactly what our shape and tactics were yesterday, it just looked a mess of 11 players chasing shadows from the first whistle.

O'dowda and Patterson have been disappointing, Brownhill hasn't had much of a chance and I am getting frustrated to understand the Engvall signing and his lack of use even from the bench.

And finally IMO Huddersfield were not all that good, they just showed far more application and desire than we did on the day and especially in midfield where most games are won or lost, but even saying of that again IMO it is game that without the their 2nd goal balls up we could easily have taken an unwarranted point from the game.

Just a bad day at the office mate...all those players you mention have had really good games this season. That's what you get at this level...players that are not always consistent. It's not been a trend all season. You look at our squad...and player for player, I'd say it is what it is...a mid table team. So our position in the league reflects that. We imo, will end up anywhere between the play off's and relegation zone. a couple wins difference, makes it so. Bang average, like the majority of the clubs in this league. Looking forward to seeing us progress, build, develop and bring fresh faces in and through.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

7 minutes ago, spudski said:

Just a bad day at the office mate...all those players you mention have had really good games this season. That's what you get at this level...players that are not always consistent. It's not been a trend all season. You look at our squad...and player for player, I'd say it is what it is...a mid table team. So our position in the league reflects that. We imo, will end up anywhere between the play off's and relegation zone. a couple wins difference, makes it so. Bang average, like the majority of the clubs in this league. Looking forward to seeing us progress, build, develop and bring fresh faces in and through.

Again I can agree totally with the highlighted portion, however the dead ball situation is a worry and a worry that LJ has alluded to, in general it is piss poor and our crossing from open play is even worse, the service from wide and from midfield to our striker/strikers is nowhere near acceptable, Abraham in particular has to feed almost entirely on long balls from defence and scraps in the box.

The crossing can maybe improve with coaching, the free kicks are simpler keep Pack away from them at all costs wherever they are on the field and in dangerous areas only allow Tomlin to take them, but the midfield needs strengthening in the window and an alternative dead ball taker is a must to give us options.

[spudski]

39 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Again I can agree totally with the highlighted portion, however the dead ball situation is a worry and a worry that LJ has alluded to, in general it is piss poor and our crossing from open play is even worse, the service from wide and from midfield to our striker/strikers is nowhere near acceptable, Abraham in particular has to feed almost entirely on long balls from defence and scraps in the box.

The crossing can maybe improve with coaching, the free kicks are simpler keep Pack away from them at all costs wherever they are on the field and in dangerous areas only allow Tomlin to take them, but the midfield needs strengthening in the window and an alternative dead ball taker is a must to give us options.

I agree...and tbh, the quality of freekicks, corners etc is getting worse throughout football. It's something I've noticed. Top end players seem to make it work, but the 'average' quality of delivery is poorer season after season imo. I'm not sure what's causing it...the ball, the players themselves, definition on the pitch etc...but it's definitely something that's not great. When the ball is moving...it doesn't seem a problem. Just at dead ball situations.

Tbh...if a player can't kick a ball properly at the age they are now, it's never going to happen.

Fitness levels have gone up, awareness of tactics has gone up...but imo, natural skill and players 'feel' levels have dropped.

It's a common theme where there are players with fantastic natural ability, awareness, skill, speed of thought, fantastic ball skills, yet so many of them aren't athletic enough to play at the very highest standard in football. The likes of JET, Tomlin, Jackie, Noble, Doc for example...then the likes of Gazza, Molby, Le Tissier, Waddle, Beardley, Worthington...who all played at the highest level, but wouldn't get in a Prem team today.

So many 'Athletes' in football...with a first touch and 'feel' that is poor imo. Standards on average have dropped. Top flight guys are superb at it...but lower down the leagues it's not very good at all.

[Guest]

On ‎11‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 09:57, spudski said:

I look at teams below us with far more experience and finance...Forest, QPR, Wolves, Ipswich, Cardiff etc.

Teams like Villa sat next to us. Derby just 2 points.

I look at those teams and think geez we are going to play them again yet and are we really going to finish above most of them at the end of the season ?.

Make no mistake in my reality we are going to face a hard enough battle to stay in this division.

The players need to wake the hell up from what I`ve seen, making too many errors and missing too many chances. It has to change, like pretty soon before real panic sets in and we look down rather than up.

[spudski]

1 hour ago, glos old boy said:

I look at those teams and think geez we are going to play them again yet and are we really going to finish above most of them at the end of the season ?.

Make no mistake in my reality we are going to face a hard enough battle to stay in this division.

The players need to wake the hell up from what I`ve seen, making too many errors and missing too many chances. It has to change, like pretty soon before real panic sets in and we look down rather than up.

It will be a tough battle fella....I agree. Every game is a tough one in this league.

Agreed...they make errors and miss chances...pretty much like the majority of teams in this league.

The way I look at it...regardless of manager, coaching staff, scouts, MA and the like...with the budget we had, the one transfer window, and what players were available within our budget or wanted to come here, I really don't think we could have done any better than what we've got now.

Considering our history of yo yoing between divisions, and struggling the early part of last season and being newly promoted...we really weren't an attractive proposition for a lot of players.

We are still a very young team, with a few old heads thrown in.

There is no magic wand to wave...no other manager is going to be able to come in and make us a top 6 side straight away.

You've only got to look at the league table, and see how many teams in this league have been in it a long time. Established...yet we are holding our own. Other teams with far more money and experience. Yet we are holding our own.

I look at our squad and see it for what it is in this league...very average. Hopefully in the next few transfer windows we can attract some better quality.

 

[Jack Dawe]

On 11/12/2016 at 09:57, spudski said:

...and get real.

Whilst we are all disappointed with yesterdays performance, a bad day at the office all round, was anyone really expecting anymore from our general performances as a whole this season?

We had a cracking start, that got everyone's expectations up, and we've certainly tailed off.

However...no one is battering us, we have dominated certain games, and many points have been lost down to individual errors.

That's the difference between being 14th and 4 points off the play offs...and actually being in the play off places...just 4 points.

We've had one transfer window to work with...we've done massively well in just one year compared to this time last season.

I think we need to realise this...to get even this far in one year is a job well done.

This league is massively tough....in the one transfer window we've had, how would anyone expect any manager to come in and turn us into a high flying top 4 team?

You have to look at this league and see it for what it is. Other teams are having poor patch's with far more experience and money behind them. Norwich for example.

I look at teams below us with far more experience and finance...Forest, QPR, Wolves, Ipswich, Cardiff etc.

Teams like Villa sat next to us. Derby just 2 points.

Whilst we all want to do well and better....we need to be realistic.

This league is one game at a time...win yesterday, we would have been sitting 8th and everyone would have been purring.

It is that close in this league...one win difference between being average or top 8.

On a side note...LJ and his team know exactly where we need to strengthen...Lets hope the right players are available in coming transfer windows.

Just enjoy the ride, of it's ups and downs...be realistic and see we are a team in transformation, and doing better than we have for many, many years.

I am broadly in agreement with you there, spud, me old fella, but in response to the emboldened bits of your post:

- yes, I was expecting some better performances. I would say there has been a lack of excitement and activity in and around the opposition's penalty area. That was certainly my hope and expectation prior to Kodjia leaving. That we would see some lively attacking play and the visiting goalkeeper earning his corn. I think the response to Kodj going was inadequate, and maybe they cocked up a bit there. Or miscalculated, or something. As others have said, relying on a teenager and a 37 year old, to provide the firepower, was - with the benefit of hindsight - optimistic. That said, how often does Tammy get a one touch chance in the box? How many touches, just touches, does he get in the box? Or Wilbs a decent headed chance? Is this down to TA/AW poor movement, or poor supply?

- it is, but it's not an impossible task. Burton have two more points - 22 - from twenty games than we managed from twenty two games a year ago. And Preston finished eleventh last season. And are matching us again this season. As are Barnsley. Huddersfield, too, are making a better fist of it than us. Brentford have coped well for three years at this level. Let's not overdo the "it's a tough league" "we can't compete" hopelessness of Cotts last year. There is plenty of evidence and examples to the contrary.

- like you, I look at Wolves, Cardiff, Forest and the like below us and think, "we're doing alright." Then, as in my previous point above, I look at clubs around and above us with no more experience and/or fewer resources, such as Huddersfield, Preston and Barnsley, and think, "we should be doing better." And minnows like Burton, doing better than us a year ago, and just the 5 points behind us this, as we near the halfway point of the season.

Both points of view - we're doing well/okay; we're not doing well enough - have some validity to them. Myself, I'd like to see busier visiting goalkeepers at AG. More excitement. Some decent crosses and some shots at goal. But I'm not unhappy overall, a midtable finish is okay. To be expected. Something to build on.

[spudski]

8 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

I am broadly in agreement with you there, spud, me old fella, but in response to the emboldened bits of your post:

- yes, I was expecting some better performances. I would say there has been a lack of excitement and activity in and around the opposition's penalty area. That was certainly my hope and expectation prior to Kodjia leaving. That we would see some lively attacking play and the visiting goalkeeper earning his corn. I think the response to Kodj going was inadequate, and maybe they cocked up a bit there. Or miscalculated, or something. As others have said, relying on a teenager and a 37 year old, to provide the firepower, was - with the benefit of hindsight - optimistic. That said, how often does Tammy get a one touch chance in the box? How many touches, just touches, does he get in the box? Or Wilbs a decent headed chance? Is this down to TA/AW poor movement, or poor supply?

- it is, but it's not an impossible task. Burton have two more points - 22 - from twenty games than we managed from twenty two games a year ago. And Preston finished eleventh last season. And are matching us again this season. As are Barnsley. Huddersfield, too, are making a better fist of it than us. Brentford have coped well for three years at this level. Let's not overdo the "it's a tough league" "we can't compete" hopelessness of Cotts last year. There is plenty of evidence and examples to the contrary.

- like you, I look at Wolves, Cardiff, Forest and the like below us and think, "we're doing alright." Then, as in my previous point above, I look at clubs around and above us with no more experience and/or fewer resources, such as Huddersfield, Preston and Barnsley, and think, "we should be doing better." And minnows like Burton, doing better than us a year ago, and just the 5 points behind us this, as we near the halfway point of the season.

Both points of view - we're doing well/okay; we're not doing well enough - have some validity to them. Myself, I'd like to see busier visiting goalkeepers at AG. More excitement. Some decent crosses and some shots at goal. But I'm not unhappy overall, a midtable finish is okay. To be expected. Something to build on.

Whilst I agree with the sentiment JD...I've not in any way made reference to 'we can't compete'...in fact the opposite. We can compete...but we aren't a top 6 side, and I can't see Huddersfield being top 6 either come the end of the season.

Plus...when you say you'd like to see a busier keeper...you do realise we produce the most shots in the league...don't you? Plus 17 other teams have scored less than us. And 7 other teams have only conceded less than us.

We are doing ok...

[Guest]

2 hours ago, spudski said:

It will be a tough battle fella....I agree. Every game is a tough one in this league.

Agreed...they make errors and miss chances...pretty much like the majority of teams in this league.

The way I look at it...regardless of manager, coaching staff, scouts, MA and the like...with the budget we had, the one transfer window, and what players were available within our budget or wanted to come here, I really don't think we could have done any better than what we've got now.

Considering our history of yo yoing between divisions, and struggling the early part of last season and being newly promoted...we really weren't an attractive proposition for a lot of players.

We are still a very young team, with a few old heads thrown in.

There is no magic wand to wave...no other manager is going to be able to come in and make us a top 6 side straight away.

You've only got to look at the league table, and see how many teams in this league have been in it a long time. Established...yet we are holding our own. Other teams with far more money and experience. Yet we are holding our own.

I look at our squad and see it for what it is in this league...very average. Hopefully in the next few transfer windows we can attract some better quality.

 

We are a young team with a few exp heads thrown in, the trick is to get the balance right; as said elsewhere signings brought in aren't getting enough game time i.m.o thus begs the question did we not bring enough Champ exp players.

A proven championship striker is number 1 priority imo, unfortunately it will be likewise for other clubs in this div/window, trouble is we wont keep hold of any that we do/may get for long.

 

[Jack Dawe]

24 minutes ago, spudski said:

Whilst I agree with the sentiment JD...I've not in any way made reference to 'we can't compete'...in fact the opposite. We can compete...but we aren't a top 6 side, and I can't see Huddersfield being top 6 either come the end of the season.

Plus...when you say you'd like to see a busier keeper...you do realise we produce the most shots in the league...don't you? Plus 17 other teams have scored less than us. And 7 other teams have only conceded less than us.

We are doing ok...

No, you didn't say we couldn't compete, and I didn't mean to imply that you did. Just that you shouldn't overdo the "this is a tough league" thing, which is a trap many will fall into, in my view. Not sure you were offering that one in Cotts's defence 12 months ago!

You asked us to reflect - time to reflect - so we must look at where we are now,  as well as where we think Huddersfield or any of us might finish. And Huddersfield, having spent less than us, and with season tickets costing £179 or less, having less to throw around, are getting more out of their outlay at this moment in time, as we now reflect. When we've all finished and played 46 games, then we can reflect on where we finished.

Right now, we're doing better than Burton, but not as well as Barnsley or Preston. Or Huddersfield. However many shots we've had. But it's also fair to say, we're currently doing better than Cardiff, Wolves, Forest too.

The shot/stats thing tells us something but not enough. Never the whole picture. We've all seen the inadequate shooting from too many of our attacking players this year and last. I'll trust my own judgement on that one: I'd like to see visiting keepers having more to do. And us having more reason to get excited about. Then we'd see fewer threads about the poor atmosphere at AG. I think 15 of our 27 goals have been scored away from home. I'd like to see more excitement in the opposition's box at AG (whilst realising there could well be good reasons for us scoring more freely away from home. I'm just saying what I hope and had hoped to see more of). 

But yes, otherwise, overall, we are doing ok. But not as well as Barnsley.

 

[spudski]

10 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

No, you didn't say we couldn't compete, and I didn't mean to imply that you did. Just that you shouldn't overdo the "this is a tough league" thing, which is a trap many will fall into, in my view. Not sure you were offering that one in Cotts's defence 12 months ago!

You asked us to reflect - time to reflect - so we must look at where we are now,  as well as where we think Huddersfield or any of us might finish. And Huddersfield, having spent less than us, and with season tickets costing £179 or less, having less to throw around, are getting more out of their outlay at this moment in time, as we now reflect. When we've all finished and played 46 games, then we can reflect on where we finished.

Right now, we're doing better than Burton, but not as well as Barnsley or Preston. Or Huddersfield. However many shots we've had. But it's also fair to say, we're currently doing better than Cardiff, Wolves, Forest too.

The shot/stats thing tells us something but not enough. Never the whole picture. We've all seen the inadequate shooting from too many of our attacking players this year and last. I'll trust my own judgement on that one: I'd like to see visiting keepers having more to do. And us having more reason to get excited about. Then we'd see fewer threads about the poor atmosphere at AG. I think 15 of our 27 goals have been scored away from home. I'd like to see more excitement in the opposition's box at AG (whilst realising there could well be good reasons for us scoring more freely away from home. I'm just saying what I hope and had hoped to see more of). 

But yes, otherwise, overall, we are doing ok. But not as well as Barnsley.

 

Barnsley have 1 point more than us JD...Had we had this conversation 1 week ago...we were ahead of them. Huddersfield last week were only 1 win ahead of us. and Preston were below us last week.

That's the point I've been making in a roundabout way. The league changes positions after every game.

Almost half way through the season and 12 points between play off place and relegation. 4 wins difference.

The difference between us being 4th or 14th after 20 games is just 2 wins. That's the difference between fans being ecstatic or 'concerned'.

Small margins in this league.

Basically the difference, is a few howlers or individual mistakes by GK's and the like.

[spudski]

16 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

I watched both Prem games yesterday pm, and thought the same. Some of the crossing and corners were really poor. I also want to know what has happened to goalkeepers. They seem to fail at the basics . Is it the ball that is so light and moves so much now ? Too much reliance today on the athletic side of the game maybe, but so few players seem able to control the ball , pass or cross it. Of course those leather footballs with laces that I used at youth level had little chance to move beyond your first touch, they almost broke your foot if it was a rainy day.  

I do think there is something to be said with the performance of the ball in the air. It causes GK's all sorts of problems.

Always liked the Adidas Tango ball myself ;-)

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

I do think there is something to be said with the performance of the ball in the air. It causes GK's all sorts of problems.

Always liked the Adidas Tango ball myself ;-)

the best ball since the mitre multiplex.....remember getting one of those on your inner thigh on a cold day 

[Lanterne Rouge]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

the best ball since the mitre multiplex.....remember getting one of those on your inner thigh on a cold day 

Or in the ear.

[Davefevs]

12 minutes ago, Red Right Hand said:

Or in the ear.

yep, you're right, much worse.  Would be red for hours!

[reddoh]

2 hours ago, spudski said:

I do think there is something to be said with the performance of the ball in the air. It causes GK's all sorts of problems.

Always liked the Adidas Tango ball myself ;-)

I always remember the wet leather ball when it hit, the ball stayed in the same place but your head moved.

[spudski]

10 minutes ago, reddoh said:

I always remember the wet leather ball when it hit, the ball stayed in the same place but your head moved.

A bit like this ;-)

 

[reddoh]

3 minutes ago, spudski said:

A bit like this ;-)

 

used to get my ugly forehead in place , he's kissing the ball, cant quite tell if tongues are involved. :-) 

[BobBobSuperBob]

44 minutes ago, spudski said:

A bit like this ;-)

 

That's the 'service' that Tammy gets !!!