The Official Bristol City v Brentford Match Day Thread

[brad blit]

Bobby Reid and Joe Bryan done nothing all game, but we can't criticise them because they are Bristol lads!

People saying Freeman was anonymous, yet created 3 of our best chances in first half and linked up well with Matthews.

Korey Smith has lost his energy and ability to pass forward.

Tammy needs to be more clinical. Yes he's been great this year but gone off boil and needs to learn when to put foot through ball 

We might need 3 windows to change the squad as Johnson said, but keep losing games & dropping down the table, and players won't want to join us 

[BS4 on Tour...]

14 minutes ago, samo II said:

Really think the biggest factor here is having not got a striker in to replace Kodjia - Tammy was always going to have times he wouldn't score, and Engvall is an unknown quantity...

Im really trying hard not to over react here, but I thought we'd bought a Swedish international striker for around £2m quid....but all I've heard since is stuff like 'he's not ready' - 'he's one for the future' - 'he's injured' - 'we're holding him back until he adapts' - and now 'he's an unknown quantity' .....we paid a similar amount for Kodjia and put him straight into the team and it paid off handsomely.

Are we scared to do the same with Engvall?  I'm fed up with this....

[stephenkibby.]

4 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

Back now to usual otib divide. Realists v Blind Optimists 

So that's the only options? Don't think i'm in one of those camps.

Certainly not a happy clapper, things not going well Lee always talks a good game but a defeat sat against Preston puts us under real pressure.

I don't think for one minute that he's under pressure as far as his job goes.

But a win is so needed the early season hope is well and truly gone.

The faithful are truly starting to loose faith.

Maybe the next signing shouldn't be he's young has a good personality , maybe it should be sign the guy if he gets three shots at goal and gets one on target !!

 

[Midred]

One of the posts earlier this evening evening suggested  (possibly misread ?) that there was an agenda behind the poor midfield play? Are we to think that either LJ has trained them to give away the ball so that we don't get ahead of ourselves as per 14/15 or is it thought that the team is underperforming in order to move the manager on? 

[Dolman Block B]

That was utter garbage!

Sadly some serious discontent from fans about our coach now. 

Not only does it seems he has lost a lot of the fans confidence it seems to me quite a few of the players as well

And that could be a sign of some tough times ahead for all of us 

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

4 minutes ago, stephenkibby. said:

So that's the only options? Don't think i'm in one of those camps.

Certainly not a happy clapper, things not going well Lee always talks a good game but a defeat sat against Preston puts us under real pressure.

I don't think for one minute that he's under pressure as far as his job goes.

But a win is so needed the early season hope is well and truly gone.

The faithful are truly starting to loose faith.

Maybe the next signing shouldn't be he's young has a good personality , maybe it should be sign the guy if he gets three shots at goal and gets one on target !!

 

Some of the faithful never had 'faith' in LJ to begin with....

[Up The City!]

We were far to pedestrian, especially in the first half. I'm not going to jump on the bandwagon and call for LJ's head, neither am I a blind follower.

Week after week I see us being pressed and the ball being passed around quickly, we need to get better at this.

Disappointed with the result because had Tammy scored then we would have won

You won't see me reaching for the razor blades because all these games we are losing its very small margins that's costing us.

[Gert Mare]

Millen, McInnes.........and now maybe Johnson?

[Engvall's Splinter]

10 minutes ago, Dark Wood Covert said:

Agree, you'd think the season is almost over and we are in the bottom 3... Its December.

I agree its madness though, madness that fans are wanting Johnson replaced, relegation looms. Some sort of perspective needed, clubs go on good and bad runs, it happens.

Whilst I'm not stating 'Johnson Out', you need to remove the blinkers. 

 

We we are on a very poor run and look awful. 

 

The continued tinkerman style changes where Johnson tries to be to clever for his own good are impacting on both the teams cohension and consistency. 

There is a lack of quality, understanding between players and no real thought to our play. 

I appreciate it's December. I'm thankful for that. Cos if this run had started in August we'd be miles off. I'm thankful we had a fortunate start. 

Whilst on a slide it will make it incredibly difficult to convince players to switch in January. 

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

10 minutes ago, Port Pete said:

Whilst I'm not stating 'Johnson Out', you need to remove the blinkers. 

 

We we are on a very poor run and look awful. 

 

The continued tinkerman style changes where Johnson tries to be to clever for his own good are impacting on both the teams cohension and consistency. 

There is a lack of quality, understanding between players and no real thought to our play. 

I appreciate it's December. I'm thankful for that. Cos if this run had started in August we'd be miles off. I'm thankful we had a fortunate start. 

Whilst on a slide it will make it incredibly difficult to convince players to switch in January. 

No blinkers on my eyes, sorry to disappoint you.

In my view LJ is damned if he does and don't by some fans, he tinkers... its not good enough as he is doing too much, he keeps the formation the same its not good enough as he is doing too little to address the problems.

I really don't know what you're expecting, barring Huddersfield and maybe at times Brentford... We have been decent in games and have played well/created enough chances to win games 6 or 7 times over... Is it Johnsons fault for Korey Smiths backpass or Frankies rush of blood by handballing it outside the box? Tonight we were done by a wicked deflecttion... again Johnsons fault?

We are 15th right now even with the slide is a marked improvement on last season, just need to put some of these chances away

Edited December 13, 2016 by Dark Wood Covert

[Guest]

I'm pretty damning of tonight and some of our recent performances but seriously, Johnson out, Johnson honeymoon over, time to question; utterly ridiculous.

There's enough bright shoots for a stay of execution for far longer than our current bad form. The bloke is not even 12m in charge, not even 2 windows in; and the one window he had he sold a £12m player; and the bloke has got a squad that he has - largely inherited - playing pretty much to its level. You'd be a hard nosed, glass half-full miserable so and so to not even say he's performed competently, particularly given how we were comfortably saved last year when he first arrived. 

Edited December 13, 2016 by Guest

[Charliesboots]

Tonight's performance got me thinking back to when LJ was appointed and a Barnsley fan posted on here something along the lines of "Be prepared for a run forward and then two passes backwards" and my favourite "Players resembling Crabs in their movement". 

Now as any loyal supporter would do I put it down to the usual dogs testicles that is espoused by a rival.

Except for tonight, there in all its glory the Crab Men appeared on the pitch in front of me (I've been drinking but I had to just to get through it)

We've been declining for the past few games now even with the sparse ray of light in a win (2 in 10 is it?)

I'm certainly not a 'Boo' boy and not in the burn the contract and start looking for a replacement camp but there needs to be some real scrutiny of what LJ is slowly trying to achieve in the interim. 

I get the patience, I understand that we are a work in progress, I know we've got to make our way through the next few transfer windows, I'm happy with progress on last season etc etc, however what's being served up is poor. 

I'm an eternal optimist so I'll carry on believing blah blah blah.

Its just a bit same old that's all.

[stephenkibby.]

19 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Utterly ridiculous to label it "madness". Top 10 is an entirely reasonable aspiration for this squad and still more than achievable.

All the usual reactionary nonsense on here tonight.

Do you really believe that?

Don't want to say iv supported for bla,bla,bla.  but it's hard for me to see where the next win's coming from let alone top 10 finnish!!

Hopefully a win sat against Preston but would another 0/1 surprise you?

Anyway false dawns and all that lets hope this one is just a dawn!!!

[deadredfred]

33 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

There's lots I can understand people criticising but I really don't get how anyone can accuse LJ of not changing tactics and personnel - he's doing it every week. To me the far more valid criticism would be that four months into the season it's not at all clear what our best line-up is...

I wasn't criticising LJ. I was questioning someone else's opinion that we ought to wait until we were in a relegation scrap before doing anything to address our lack of goals.

As for the rest of your post, totally agree. I think a settled side will go a long way towards the stability we need to turn these narrow defeats into points. 

[ChippenhamRed]

4 minutes ago, stephenkibby. said:

Do you really believe that?

Don't want to say iv supported for bla,bla,bla.  but it's hard for me to see where the next win's coming from let alone top 10 finnish!!

Hopefully a win sat against Preston but would another 0/1 surprise you?

Anyway false dawns and all that lets hope this one is just a dawn!!!

Yes I believe with 25 games of the season remaining we can still finish in the top 10.

[AshtonGreat]

28 minutes ago, Up The City! said:

We were far to pedestrian, especially in the first half. I'm not going to jump on the bandwagon and call for LJ's head, neither am I a blind follower.

Week after week I see us being pressed and the ball being passed around quickly, we need to get better at this.

Disappointed with the result because had Tammy scored then we would have won

You won't see me reaching for the razor blades because all these games we are losing its very small margins that's costing us.

That's the problem - we're ALWAYS pedestrian. Too easy to play against

[robin_unreliant]

34 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Im really trying hard not to over react here, but I thought we'd bought a Swedish international striker for around £2m quid....but all I've heard since is stuff like 'he's not ready' - 'he's one for the future' - 'he's injured' - 'we're holding him back until he adapts' - and now 'he's an unknown quantity' .....we paid a similar amount for Kodjia and put him straight into the team and it paid off handsomely.

Are we scared to do the same with Engvall?  I'm fed up with this....

Sorry but from tonight and his Hull appearance I think it is pretty clear Engvall is nowhere near Kodjia level. I can see why LJ is reluctant to play him.

[WolfOfWestStreet]

Good start to the season but now weve been well and truely found out.

All the eggs in an 18 year old basket.

Manager hasnt a clue who his best team is and in my opinion has bought very poorly.

New contract was ill timed and undeserved. 

Tough month ahead.

[Red Rum]

1 hour ago, TheCulturalBomb said:

Would like to see Engvall start, and back to 2 up front. Wouldn't mind seeing Burns in the side come January. Oh and maybe our other signings from this summer 

Didn't see anything today that made me think he is ready to start.

[stephenkibby.]

22 minutes ago, Dark Wood Covert said:

Some of the faithful never had 'faith' in LJ to begin with....

When I say faithful I mean no matter who the manager (coach or whatever title now) is just to our club.

Which brings up a new question.

Should the worst happen,were relegated how many faithful would we have left?

Would imagine we would lose at least 1/3rd of season tickets maybe more. The gate would look a sad place now with 10,000 rattling around.

Witch has got to tell  Johnson, Lansdown Ashton. come on!!!

I know Spudski and the like on here advocate the long game but in any level of football you seem to be going backwards or forwards,dosen't seem to much time for standing still.

Lets hope all our planning for the long game don't bite our ass in the short term. urrrreeedddssss.

[Nogbad the Bad]

3 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

13 new signings in the Summer yet 8 of tonight's starting line up were at the club when LJ arrived.

 

3 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Quite a hollow criticism when you consider the previous managed to sign 1 player in 18 months. Hence LJ and MA were left with a heck of a task in bringing in a) numbers and b) quickly.

In fact not a criticism at all, just a reasonable observation.

[RedM]

9 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

Sorry but from tonight and his Hull appearance I think it is pretty clear Engvall is nowhere near Kodjia level. I can see why LJ is reluctant to play him.

Harsh on Engvall, at least he looked positive and tried to move the ball forward.

So LJ should continue to let a 19 year old be responsible for the bulk of the goals in a team should he, how many other successful teams rely on this tactic? I personally think we are running Tammy into the ground, if we are going to persist with the one up top then play Tammy for 60 minutes and replace him with Engvall. That way Tammy gets a rest and Gus gets game time. I've no idea if this would work but apart from Wilbs it's all we've got until January at least.

I'm sure the Brentford goal was scored whilst we were still dwelling on Tammy's miss. And misses they were, open goals when it was easier to score than not, and he still couldn't, making him increasingly frustrated. They weren't great saves, but misses on the whole by all our players. Our keepers SAVED Brentford chances, our players MISSED our chances, that was the difference tonight.

Brentford looked no better than us, but they took all 3 points which is hard to swallow. I can take home defeats to Newcastle, Brighton, and away defeats to Birmingham, Reading. Away to Huddersfield we should have got more, but beaten at home by Brentford and that performance is my low point so far this season.

 

[stephenkibby.]

36 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Yes I believe with 25 games of the season remaining we can still finish in the top 10.

Yeh ok but with 25 games left Rotherham could finish in the top 10.

Don't for one minute think that will happen what have you seen in the last 2 months makes you think we will?

[fishy]

1 hour ago, Dark Wood Covert said:

Where is his rigidity then? He changes the formation alot... 442 diamond, 442, 352 and so on. In doing so he changes the personnel so that comment is way off.

Like London Bristolian says the problem isn't that, its that LJ doesn't know his best starting XI it seems

It was clear from the moment Tomlin came on that they did know or understand the formation.  Korey looked bewildered. 

[havanatopia]

As RedM and others have said this was our worst result of the season. Not least because it is a psychological tipping point for so many reasons.

[ChippenhamRed]

8 hours ago, stephenkibby. said:

Yeh ok but with 25 games left Rotherham could finish in the top 10.

Don't for one minute think that will happen what have you seen in the last 2 months makes you think we will?

Why do we have to limit ourselves to looking at the last two months? I'm not pretending there aren't problems, clearly our form is poor. But we have already shown we are capable of winning matches at this level, unlike last season we are never getting battered 4-0, and we have the financial capacity to make improvements in January.

People are too quick to write the season off and too quick to judge our entire season based only on our recent form. If we were as dreadful as some are making out, we wouldn't have won the matches we already have. It's as if some revel in our failure more than they do our success.

With 25 games to go it is ridiculous to rule out a top 10 finish. I didn't expect us to finish 18th after I went to Reading away back in January.

[Phileas Fogg]

29 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Why do we have to limit ourselves to looking at the last two months? I'm not pretending there aren't problems, clearly our form is poor. But we have already shown we are capable of winning matches at this level, unlike last season we are never getting battered 4-0, and we have the financial capacity to make improvements in January.

People are too quick to write the season off and too quick to judge our entire season based only on our recent form. If we were as dreadful as some are making out, we wouldn't have won the matches we already have. It's as if some revel in our failure more than they do our success.

With 25 games to go it is ridiculous to rule out a top 10 finish. I didn't expect us to finish 18th after I went to Reading away back in January.

Definitely - no coincidence that Otib is far busier after a defeat. There are some issues that need sorting quickly with this side and I hope we're prepared for January.

Whilst I agree about issues with the team, tactics etc which are all valid - I think it's a bit sad that obviously some fans have gleefully waited for poor form to show their true colours re Johnson. There's some that hated the idea of his appointment - I really think for some this is down to his playing time here. They then hated the fact he did quite well and was winning the fans over. They hated it when we appointed that 'suit' Ashton with his corporate vocab.. then he appeared to do his job quite well.

Now we're seeing some people's true colours emerge. I can totally understand legitimate concerns, there are issues that need addressing urgently. What I don't like is over-egged criticism of Johnson because up until the last few weeks he was proving some people very very wrong and they've had no opportunity to vent.

[1960maaan]

I feel sorry for LJ in as much as, the team he put out created 4 or 5 guilt edge chances. It is not his fault we managed to miss all of them, along with a couple of other lesser chances.  It's not his fault we have a potential car crash of a defence whenever the ball is played back to the keeper. 

What I would question....  why change half the side to keep Joe Bryan on when SG was doing OK. Why when our midfield had been like doors opening on black Friday it was so easy to run through, take a holding CM off and put players on that wouldn't track back.  Before that I thought we were getting a little control and making chances, the changes looked more like the ones he makes to chase a game at a goal down(admittedly it didn't take long to get there). I have no problem with the formation, or dropping LT to try a more mobile team. I don't understand the changes.

We play out too slowly, this is even more obvious when you see the occasions we do play at pace, different team. While I like that we try and play out from the back, when a team presses us we dwell on the ball and those passes to the keeper are scarier than any Friday 13th film !!

We have signed good players with potential, we have not signed proven Championship players. Looking at the team list last night we have a good looking squad, but they all seem of a similar level, a few stand out and pick themselves but only a few the debates prove that. In years gone by the team would be easy to pick and we would discuss whether to swap one or two . Now, Mathews (if fully fit) Flint, Mags, Tomlin , even Tammy looks like he needs a rest so question marks there .Other than that you could make arguments for every other position. It's no wonder LJ doesn't seem to know his best team, I really don't think we have one just yet. 

As individuals, the back four seem to play well but as a unit we concede too many chances. That has to be coaching, but it doesn't hell not having a secure screen from the midfield . We have wide players but play them on their opposite wings, when was the last time we had anyone bomb  down the outside and hit a cross. It takes several touches, some thought, a look up, some more thought, THEN (if nothing else is on) we may get a cross. Strikers, well interesting. Tammy is a good player, but at 18 I'm not sure he should be playing week in week out. Or have the weight of the whole team on his shoulders. Engvall has not had enough game time to judge, he needs a run before we right him off. With Wilbs not able to play 3 games a week maybe some help could be brought in, but with AW here already would we be looking at another experienced striker? Doubtful.  The same could be said of the midfield and Oneil.  

The thing that concerns me a little is, the only noises coming out of BCFC so far are for more players with potential. While that's admirable , what we need at the moment is cool heads and leadership. I hope Jan will supply some late presents as I think the squad is looking promising, maybe not currently , but next year maybe?

[The Bard]

11 hours ago, tts_city said:

He needs dropping to the bench for a stint, a lad his age cant be expected to carry the team all season, but the cupboard is a bit bare to replace him, thats the managers fault.

I disagree. He's actually playing better but the goals have dried up. His reaction to missing the one on one was outstanding. No sulking, he just got straight back into the game.

 This has exposed the problem that apart from Tomlin and Reid, no one else looks remotely like scoring a goal.  Too reliant on one player just like we were last season. Mind you, I can remember some saying Kodjia wasn't good enough and should be dropped for Agard...

[pillred]

13 hours ago, steviestevieneville said:

Listen to yourself for gods sake . (The rot has set in) bloody hell man get a grip . 

he said firm hold, not set in, nobody can argue that things are not going well