joe jordans teeth Posted December 17, 2016 Report Share Posted December 17, 2016 3 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said: It's nowhere near the squad he wants yet. He's still working with plenty of inherited crap. Surely that's his fault,his signings have been awful apart from tomlin but everybody knew that was a no brainier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted December 17, 2016 Report Share Posted December 17, 2016 2 minutes ago, Ivorguy said: So why did we buy a raft of firstnteam squad players we don't play? No evidence ten windows would lead to better performances, after all we are told how outstanding Bryan and Reid are, really? A good point on players not playing. The likes of O'Dowda and Engvall must be wondering how bad we have to be for them to get an opportunity. Though on today's showing I can see why Brownhill and Paterson have been warming the bench. Paterson made Freeman look productive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe jordans teeth Posted December 17, 2016 Report Share Posted December 17, 2016 3 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said: A good point on players not playing. The likes of O'Dowda and Engvall must be wondering how bad we have to be for them to get an opportunity. Though on today's showing I can see why Brownhill and Paterson have been warming the bench. Paterson made Freeman look productive. So he has inherited crap(your words) and bought absolute donkeys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchay Red Posted December 17, 2016 Report Share Posted December 17, 2016 10 minutes ago, Dark Wood Covert said: Did pretty well at Oldham and Barnsley and has done a fairly good job here, so yeah he has the makings of a good coach. Well he did ok-ish at a couple of middling L1 sides, and pulled of a master stroke getting Tamy here, which is just as well he did. But I'm not convinced. Hopefully he will remove my misgivings PDQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasbuster Posted December 17, 2016 Report Share Posted December 17, 2016 48 minutes ago, Newquay-Red said: If we see the same lineup next week I will be furious... ...before running down the bookies and putting a bet on us losing by a one goal margin. Do that anyway. We are at Molineux; we could play like Barcelona, but it won't stop it being a defeat for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiale Posted December 17, 2016 Report Share Posted December 17, 2016 We should have been home and dry in the first 20 minutes, our inability to put the ball in the back of the net is appalling. Preston, first attack, first shot and goal ! We played good passing, fluid, movement of the ball players hungry for it, and then after the goal, they all deflated and we looked pretty poor the rest of the half, Preston had another couple of half decent chances in that period. 2nd half we looked clueless tbh so many players unable to make simple passes, and putting ourselves under pressure all the time. We had so much possession it makes you wonder how Preston found the time to have pretty much the same number of chacnes as us, but the answer is we just gifted them the chances with sloppy defending and passing continually giving away possesion. O'Neil - why oh why is he still taking set pieces ? Tammy - sorry, now missed another two 1 v 1 with the keep just yards out and not found the target either time, he needs a break, he has just lost that touch - he has scored 11 in 21 games but the fast majority in the opening of the season, his contributions have simply all but dried up. I know people are going to rush to his defence now as he's the fans darling atm - but he has 1 job to score, and at the moment he can't, he needs a break / rest and let someone else shoulder the burden for a while. Tomlin, so hot and cold... one minute you want to buy him a pint, the next take him out back and shoot him.. I wish he could pull himself together. to be honest that's 2 games we could / should have won or at least drawn now and it's not because of having 1 up front, or LJ it's single players making horrendous decisions time and time again, when we know they are better - it's almost like we are cursed at times... maybe we can get that exorcists that cleanses grounds to pop over sometime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petehinton Posted December 17, 2016 Report Share Posted December 17, 2016 Players are more than good enough. Tomlin is one of the best in the league when used correctly, see his Boro days. GON, how many promotions out of this league? 4? Magnusson, IMO bound for the Prem in 2/3 years. Likewise Tammy will no doubt be a top 10 prem striker. its not like we're Rotherham with all due respect to them. Then the squad wouldn't be good enough. How can they be expected to perform well and consistently when they play in different positions most weeks? (Joe left back one game, benched, left wing, left back, bench etc likewise Tomlin is a 10 then a left winger then a right winger then a 10 again). Only have LJ to look at here. He signed the bulk of this 11 and consciously chooses to throw them all over the pitch in different sequences. We all ridiculed McInnes for it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted December 17, 2016 Report Share Posted December 17, 2016 2 hours ago, BRISTOL86 said: Think you've hit the nail on the head there. He warned when he came in that it would be two or three transfer windows before he had a squad he liked. He deserves more than one transfer window before the knives come out IMO, given the state of the club when he came in....you don't go from relegation fodder to playoff contenders in one summer. Tell that to Huddersfield Finished one place below us last year , and a budget I'd predict smaller than ours !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1bristolcity Posted December 17, 2016 Report Share Posted December 17, 2016 I have given up on Lee now, too many defeats in short time to convince me he is out of his depth, it started when he went public on the the 3 windows imo, that had to be a real slap in the face to the City players who see their futures here, really stupid and arrogant statement, you have to work with what you have, and instill in the players they are a tight unit, maybe not the most gifted but a team. Thing is we have a squad that could be worked into a very good formation, I would bet everything an more experienced coach could do that. Steve will need to act soon, but Lee has an extension, just agreed, soft we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelts Posted December 17, 2016 Report Share Posted December 17, 2016 3 hours ago, Ivorguy said: Same old City I have supported since 1950. Out of their depth, with one glorious exception, in this division or higher. Our natural habitat is top half division three. I really thought LJ would make it after his initial success. Now feel it's the same old. Poor coaching of basics (corners, free kicks, finishing, to which we must now add defending). Poor quality players not up to this level. Why the hell are Reid, Pack, Freeman and Bryan still believed to be able to make it at this level? Plenty of promise and little delivery. Get shot. Poor management. Who in their tiny right minds would have extended LJ's contract a week or so ago. I believe on all the evidence SL is not up to the task, and is too arrogant to take advice. No management worth its salt would have made such a crass decision. This isn't about football management it's about straight forward management. The good news is we have in our under 23s/ fringe/academy teams the makings of a good division three side in two or three years time. But when they get promotion, for goodness sake invest in tried and trusted higher level players. All in favour of youth policy, all in favour of new ground BUT not in favour of forgetting to strengthen the first XI. My worries about Bristol Sport as a model resurfacing rapidly What can be done to sort this current mess out? Massive investment in January in new and more likely loan players. Alternative strategy? Ignore this season blood the youngsters and start all over again in division three or, if we have luck we don't deserve, in Championship still Pessimistic or realistic? I think we have a right to adopt the default position of every City supporter - realistic pessimism tempered with unrealistic optimism Bring back Cotts for you then!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollydog Posted December 17, 2016 Report Share Posted December 17, 2016 18 minutes ago, petehinton said: Players are more than good enough. Tomlin is one of the best in the league when used correctly, see his Boro days. GON, how many promotions out of this league? 4? Magnusson, IMO bound for the Prem in 2/3 years. Likewise Tammy will no doubt be a top 10 prem striker. its not like we're Rotherham with all due respect to them. Then the squad wouldn't be good enough. How can they be expected to perform well and consistently when they play in different positions most weeks? (Joe left back one game, benched, left wing, left back, bench etc likewise Tomlin is a 10 then a left winger then a right winger then a 10 again). Only have LJ to look at here. He signed the bulk of this 11 and consciously chooses to throw them all over the pitch in different sequences. We all ridiculed McInnes for it.... No, sorry but players aren't good enough. Defence has been poor all season at doing the basics - we don't mark properly from crosses and set pieces (goal no.1 today) nor challenge effectively( Magnus), get properly goal side (GON) or have a consistent keeper (goal 2). Thats not down to the manager - that's Sunday league stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petehinton Posted December 17, 2016 Report Share Posted December 17, 2016 3 minutes ago, hollydog said: No, sorry but players aren't good enough. Defence has been poor all season at doing the basics - we don't mark properly from crosses and set pieces (goal no.1 today) nor challenge effectively( Magnus), get properly goal side (GON) or have a consistent keeper (goal 2). Thats not down to the manager - that's Sunday league stuff. You say it's not down to the manager, but all three players mentioned there were signed by said manager... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollydog Posted December 17, 2016 Report Share Posted December 17, 2016 9 minutes ago, petehinton said: You say it's not down to the manager, but all three players mentioned there were signed by said manager... Fair Point - I was just arguing that players need to take responsibility for basics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petehinton Posted December 17, 2016 Report Share Posted December 17, 2016 4 minutes ago, hollydog said: Fair Point - I was just arguing that players need to take responsibility for basics. Couldn't agree more. Part of these mistakes can come from constant formation and player changes though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodEmperor Palpatine Posted December 17, 2016 Report Share Posted December 17, 2016 6 minutes ago, petehinton said: Couldn't agree more. Part of these mistakes can come from constant formation and player changes though. Are they? Cotterill stuck to the same guns with formation and team and they still got the basics wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelts Posted December 17, 2016 Report Share Posted December 17, 2016 3 hours ago, nimrod said: Very true. I'd love be to know exactly what the LJ fans admire in him? The guy seems to speak well but have absolutely no substance. I'd rather Pembo was put back in charge and use LJ for public relations or something. He has lovely facial hair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tts_city Posted December 17, 2016 Report Share Posted December 17, 2016 Im getting pretty sick of having one of those days. The first 20 today was some of the best football i have seen us play in a long time, really free flowing creative stuff, but i and everyone around me knew that when we didnt stick it away that attack by Preston was going to score, heartbreaking to watch., its the seeing it coming that hurts the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted December 17, 2016 Report Share Posted December 17, 2016 We are too naeve and too nice . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Up The City! Posted December 17, 2016 Report Share Posted December 17, 2016 For the first 20 we were excellent, absolutely dominated the game could and should have had a penalty. They then got a goal and our confidence was zapped. What I'm getting at is in patches we are showing what we are capable of. We need to just stretch that out over longer periods of the game and take our bloody chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted December 17, 2016 Report Share Posted December 17, 2016 23 minutes ago, Major Isewater said: We are too naeve and too nice . See my post in Wilbraham topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted December 17, 2016 Report Share Posted December 17, 2016 7 minutes ago, Up The City! said: For the first 20 we were excellent, absolutely dominated the game could and should have had a penalty. They then got a goal and our confidence was zapped. What I'm getting at is in patches we are showing what we are capable of. We need to just stretch that out over longer periods of the game and take our bloody chances. Ah yes, the penalty....assuming there was contact (which it looked like), then it was definitely a pen. Tammy drew his right leg back, and it got tapped. He just should've gone down there and then...the stumble didn't help. Gary O'Neil got caught by a terrible tackle late on in first half from McGeady. He should've rolled around in agony, McGeady was lucky to get a yellow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted December 17, 2016 Report Share Posted December 17, 2016 8 minutes ago, Davefevs said: See my post in Wilbraham topic. See my thread on ' Are We too nice ? ' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnefcok Posted December 18, 2016 Report Share Posted December 18, 2016 7 hours ago, JoeAman08 said: Talking about their wingers, and team in fact, they do some fantastic business. Paid peanuts for players like Robinson and Pearson who I thought both were fantastic. A loan striker with experience in a few leagues. McGeady on a free who I thought was quiet until second half. We don't always need to buy 2-3m players and could learn a thing or two from Preston. Also their LB was solid and didn't cost them too much. Yes, Pearson was 350k and has been absolutely magnificent this season. McGeady is actually on loan with Everton heavily subsidising his wages. Robinson was around 100k and Johnson was 50k. Rest of the squad is loans/frees mainly apart from one or two. We've already signed Andy Boyle (CB) and Daryl Horgan (winger) on freebies from Dundalk for January too. Our only problem is we lack a quality, natural finisher and they cost big money. Makienok, for all his strengths, isn't a 20 goal man and we need a new, quality partner for him. Stevie May is back from injury soon too and currently returning to full fitness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityloyal473 Posted December 18, 2016 Report Share Posted December 18, 2016 8 hours ago, Major Isewater said: We are too naeve and too nice . Bang on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted December 18, 2016 Report Share Posted December 18, 2016 14 hours ago, BRISTOL86 said: It's nowhere near the squad he wants yet. He's still working with plenty of inherited crap. Inherited crap? I certainly think that the we are too nice comment above has resonance. We lack a leader and proper ball winner ala dare I say it Gerry or even Shaun Taylor. Our team lacks presence and seems to reflect our manager, as is often the case, neatly turned out but lacking in stature. We need a midfield general fast. A player who will lead by example on the field. Teams love playing us as we have no one they fear, we are weak in front of goal and in the tackle and we will contrive to concede a soft goal somehow This is compounded at the moment by other factors that most can see. As pissed off I am about our current form I still think LJ can turn it around, but as I said earlier SL will be ruthless if he thinks our status is in jeopardy, mates with LJ or not ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Dawe Posted December 18, 2016 Report Share Posted December 18, 2016 15 hours ago, Ayteomike2 said: Are we having to many of those bad days Yes. It's just one of those seasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Balls Posted December 18, 2016 Report Share Posted December 18, 2016 Football is a simple game. You need to score more than you concede. At the moment we keep giving away goals, sometimes through luck (deflection on Tuesday, miss-hit for Preston's 2nd today) but in larger part through errors in even allowing the chance to happen. The repeated nature of those mistakes & the results that have followed have eaten away at confidence. We were not playing well at times & winning ugly earlier in the season based on good confidence, now the opposite is happening. The biggest confidence effect has been on Tammy. His form is a perfect reflection of the team, in large part because we play just him up front most of the time. For the number of chances we make, we usually get far too few on target, and at the moment we are needing 10 or more shots per game to get a goal as so few are on target. We don't make the goalkeepers work much. That is lack of quality compounded by lack of confidence. Finally there is our style of play, which at times looks great (first 20 minutes yesterday) but often makes us incredibly slow at coming forward, by which time their defence is prepared. Many of our goals earlier in the season came from the surprise factor of Tammy & errors from the opposition, but now he is not taking one-on-ones like he was (had 2 he fluffed against Brentford). Much as I hate some of the chopping and changing as LJ tinkers, the performances from certain players have merited some of those. However he is stubborn & he obviously has his favourites (Dear LJ Joe Bryan is not a left back...) & a particular vision on how we should play (perhaps something of Wenger rubbed off on him as an Arsensl trainee), but he has had terrible runs of results before. Just last season at Barnsley he lost something like 8 or 10 games in a row before coming to us. The difference then was that he turned it around with 4-5 wins on the trot. This is a bigger challenge but something similar is needed. The upturn in Barnsley's results came with the return of Adam Hammill to the club. From his comments, it would seem that LJ is thinking something similar with the January transfer window & the need for certain players. I just hope he can sort it, not because I think he's the greatest coach ever, but in large part because Steve Lansdown is loyal to his managers & seems to have a particular soft spot for "Little Lee", but most of all because after all the effort to get back up & stay up, I don't want to see us go back to League 1. If you want to see the apocalyptic version of what that can do to a middle sized club with a big ground, just look what is happening at Coventry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted December 18, 2016 Report Share Posted December 18, 2016 15 hours ago, Dark Wood Covert said: Ok just to point out while a genuine question, its pure conjecture about relegation.. it hasn't happened. The squad we have are fairly average to good players and in the middle of the rebuild, look at the mess that Johnson inherited last year. More upheaval means quick fix which never works out in the long term anyway, this is City after all... Clubs go on good & bad runs, that is the nature of the beast as they say, this is the test of his credentials, he endured a spell at Barnsley and then turned it around, no reason he can't do it here. In the middle of the rebuild? I'm not buying that. Half the signings have done diddly squat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted December 18, 2016 Report Share Posted December 18, 2016 12 minutes ago, Dr Balls said: Football is a simple game. You need to score more than you concede. At the moment we keep giving away goals, sometimes through luck (deflection on Tuesday, miss-hit for Preston's 2nd today) but in larger part through errors in even allowing the chance to happen. The repeated nature of those mistakes & the results that have followed have eaten away at confidence. We were not playing well at times & winning ugly earlier in the season based on good confidence, now the opposite is happening. The biggest confidence effect has been on Tammy. His form is a perfect reflection of the team, in large part because we play just him up front most of the time. For the number of chances we make, we usually get far too few on target, and at the moment we are needing 10 or more shots per game to get a goal as so few are on target. We don't make the goalkeepers work much. That is lack of quality compounded by lack of confidence. Finally there is our style of play, which at times looks great (first 20 minutes yesterday) but often makes us incredibly slow at coming forward, by which time their defence is prepared. Many of our goals earlier in the season came from the surprise factor of Tammy & errors from the opposition, but now he is not taking one-on-ones like he was (had 2 he fluffed against Brentford). Much as I hate some of the chopping and changing as LJ tinkers, the performances from certain players have merited some of those. However he is stubborn & he obviously has his favourites (Dear LJ Joe Bryan is not a left back...) & a particular vision on how we should play (perhaps something of Wenger rubbed off on him as an Arsensl trainee), but he has had terrible runs of results before. Just last season at Barnsley he lost something like 8 or 10 games in a row before coming to us. The difference then was that he turned it around with 4-5 wins on the trot. This is a bigger challenge but something similar is needed. The upturn in Barnsley's results came with the return of Adam Hammill to the club. From his comments, it would seem that LJ is thinking something similar with the January transfer window & the need for certain players. I just hope he can sort it, not because I think he's the greatest coach ever, but in large part because Steve Lansdown is loyal to his managers & seems to have a particular soft spot for "Little Lee", but most of all because after all the effort to get back up & stay up, I don't want to see us go back to League 1. If you want to see the apocalyptic version of what that can do to a middle sized club with a big ground, just look what is happening at Coventry... SL is loyal to his managers? Five in five seasons suggests otherwise... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted December 18, 2016 Report Share Posted December 18, 2016 16 hours ago, BITW said: Team is just completely drained of confidence and we all know that's the hardest thing to turn around . We are so so so predictable to watch at the moment it's infuriating. Bryan starting at LB and Golbourne not in the squad (unless he's injured) is an absolute myth. He doesn't look half the player he was two years ago. I've got a lot of time for LJ and I still buy in to what we are trying to do long term but he needs results and fast. Unfortunately for him these days fans lose patience and fast! Bryan looked the business in the first twenty minutes, but the confidence drained out of him more dramatically than anyone else. He seems to have a very fragile mentality and his head is the first to drop when things are going against us. What we lack is LEADERSHIP on the field. No one is helping the younger players; no one is pointing; no one is shouting; no one is organising. You have Tomlin niggling away at the other players all the time which can't be good for their morale. The difference that Wilbraham made when he came on was there for all to see. He seems to be the only leader at the club. Tomlin is a real problem. He was everywhere and nowhere yesterday. He seemed to have a completely free role and I don't think any of the other players knew what he was doing. If you give that much freedom to one player means the rest are bound to suffer, especially the youngsters. At the moment he is looking to me like another Djiekanowski. Fabulous skills but only an occasional end product, and a negative impact on the morale of the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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