Assuming that Lee Johnson is staying...

[chinapig]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

These are professional athletes who train virtually every day. Sure, player do tire as the match goes by but that applies to both teams.

Yet some teams are fitter than others. We train 2 hours a day, others do double sessions. Must make a difference.

[bristolcitysweden]

13 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Yet some teams are fitter than others. We train 2 hours a day, others do double sessions. Must make a difference.

Benny introduced training twice a day almost twenty years ago. I thought it was common practice.

[Jack Dawe]

Assuming that Lee is staying, I would recommend that the players have some "down time" away from all the misery and negativity, and relax together watching the ladies darts round Flinty's (or Tomlin's, or whoever has the space and one of them big tellys up on the wall). If the ladies darts is still on next week...

[bristolcitysweden]

And taking over he started pre season training during the season as players were unfit

[CityCiderEd]

31 minutes ago, spudski said:

We do play with width PF...Little and Bryan are usually glued to the touchline.

Do you mean play with 'wingers' as in the Adomah type role?

You wish to play Tomlin in the Centre AM? And wide men? And Tammy and Duric up top?

That leaves one DM...

We can't defend a lead at the moment, so I'm not sure how you think that is going to work tbh. We'd be torn apart in midfield if we did as you suggest...

I agree about our set pieces, the delivery and attack of the ball is Amateur.

I've watched us this season closely.

We've played 1 up top...we've lost.

We've played with 2 up top in a 442....we've lost.

We've gone 352....we've lost.

We've tried numerous formula...we've changed many players this season due to injury and who was available. FF, Smith, Matthews, GoN, Magners of late.

LJ gets abused for changing too much...or not changing. He can't win.

The long and short of it is....we've lost games, not through tactics...but through individual errors. It happens every game. None of those mistakes are because of the tactics employed. They are down to individual errors....and it's often the same players making them.

We need better players...it's as simple as that. In GK, RB, LB, RM, LM....five new players needed in those positions, as first choice.

Any new manager would still have the same players to work with....they would still make the same mistakes.

How does anyone blame LJ for Brownhills flick back on the edge of the 18 yard box. Littles inept defending. Bryans inept defending and positioning.

We did a lot of things right yesterday...but it's the same players making the same mistakes, week after week after week.

LJ knows this...any new manager would see it straight away.

We've shut up shop and lost...we've played expansive wide open football and lost. Whatever we do formation wise...we lose.

We've tried pretty much everything...it still comes back to the same old problem...certain players just aren't good or consistent enough.

Injuries haven't helped...plus not getting experienced better players in during the summer probably didn't help. However...as a manager, who would have thought FF, Matthews, GoN and to a lesser extent Tomlin would be having the seasons they are having. 3 crucial players with that experience needed.

We need 5 players of the calibre of Magners, Wright  Hegeler and Duric brought in...those quality of players don't make the costly mistakes we see from individuals week in week out imo.

Whilst I agree with a lot of your analysis do you not think the constant team changes are a big factor in our poor form.

We've had Korey out injured then back as skipper,Pack always seemingly hooked then on the bench next game and then back as skipper.JB at LB then LWB then CM it goes on and on.With the players we have now we should have been seeing a settled team months ago not the constant changes.Every time I get to the ground and see the team I am sometimes mystified and other times fed up.I didn't think I would be worrying about relegation a few months back but it seems that it is now a possibility and on current form we're nailed on.

[chinapig]

7 minutes ago, bristolcitysweden said:

Benny introduced training twice a day almost twenty years ago. I thought it was common practice.

Across Europe it is, not so much so in England it seems. We apparently train 2 hours a day. LJ says we work hard but I'm not convinced 2 hours is doing any such thing.

[Gillies Downs Leeds]

2 hours ago, chinapig said:

The alternative view is that lack of fitness leads to tiredness which leads to loss of concentration which leads to mistakes.

If this is the case where did it all change, earlier in the season we were finishing off matches really strongly and picking up late points.

[spudski]

3 minutes ago, CityCiderEd said:

Whilst I agree with a lot of your analysis do you not think the constant team changes are a big factor in our poor form.

We've had Korey out injured then back as skipper,Pack always seemingly hooked then on the bench next game and then back as skipper.JB at LB then LWB then CM it goes on and on.With the players we have now we should have been seeing a settled team months ago not the constant changes.Every time I get to the ground and see the team I am sometimes mystified and other times fed up.I didn't think I would be worrying about relegation a few months back but it seems that it is now a possibility and on current form we're nailed on.

I agree...we've had lots of changes...but the majority are down to injury to players or loss of form.

People were crying out to go 442 or 352...we've done both and still lost.

Yesterday people couldn't understand Hegeler at CB...but Matthews is injured, Magners not 100%...and Bryan is a liability at LB and Golbourne the same. So you understand why Hegeler was played there, especially in a physical derby. It seems some fans just don't think through the reasoning, when you read this forum.

No team has completely battered us...we are scoring...we are conceding. The difference between us winning and losing is purely individual errors...you see it for yourself on match day.

[Frenchay Red]

Like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic with Cap'n Johnson at the helm.

[Phileas Fogg]

46 minutes ago, spudski said:

We do play with width PF...Little and Bryan are usually glued to the touchline.

Do you mean play with 'wingers' as in the Adomah type role?

Yeah, wingers rather than wing backs. I'm not a massive fan of the wing back system and I don't think we've got the players to play it at this level.

Quote

You wish to play Tomlin in the Centre AM? And wide men? And Tammy and Duric up top?

That leaves one DM...

That is true and I considered that when I wrote it. Obviously we can't play with 2 forwards, 2 wingers and Tomlin.

Quote

We can't defend a lead at the moment, so I'm not sure how you think that is going to work tbh. We'd be torn apart in midfield if we did as you suggest...

Agree we can't accommodate all of that at once. What I meant was to have the option to use wingers and regularly use it as a system. Obviously that would mean sacrificing Tomlin or playing just one up top. More options really.

Quote

I agree about our set pieces, the delivery and attack of the ball is Amateur.

It's really bad and so frustrating. We've got so many tall players who are good in the air it's a really good opportunity to get goals.

 

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

8 minutes ago, spudski said:

I agree...we've had lots of changes...but the majority are down to injury to players or loss of form.

People were crying out to go 442 or 352...we've done both and still lost.

Yesterday people couldn't understand Hegeler at CB...but Matthews is injured, Magners not 100%...and Bryan is a liability at LB and Golbourne the same. So you understand why Hegeler was played there, especially in a physical derby. It seems some fans just don't think through the reasoning, when you read this forum.

No team has completely battered us...we are scoring...we are conceding. The difference between us winning and losing is purely individual errors...you see it for yourself on match day.

This is exactly what I said Spud, its easy to see why Hegeler was put at CB but tbh some just want to beat LJ with a large stick.

I read yesterday that he's too stubborn and rigid and then he is constantly chopping an changing the line-up... its either one or the other.

Pick one FFS

 

[CityCiderEd]

1 minute ago, spudski said:

I agree...we've had lots of changes...but the majority are down to injury to players or loss of form.

People were crying out to go 442 or 352...we've done both and still lost.

Yesterday people couldn't understand Hegeler at CB...but Matthews is injured, Magners not 100%...and Bryan is a liability at LB and Golbourne the same. So you understand why Hegeler was played there, especially in a physical derby. It seems some fans just don't think through the reasoning, when you read this forum.

No team has completely battered us...we are scoring...we are conceding. The difference between us winning and losing is purely individual errors...you see it for yourself on match day.

I know we're not getting battered but do you really think we have progressed from the end of last season?

When we finished last year we played some good attacking football and I for one couldn't wait for this season to start but that optimism has now been drained out of me and quite a few of the lads I sit with.

I feel we are now in a massive dogfight which I never thought would happen and although I agree with you about the individual errors it seems the same players are committing them on a fairly regular basis.If these issues are not sorted out quickly we will sadly be relegated with a manager (if he stays) who has spent freely and has a big squad to work with but seemingly unable to get the best out of.

[spudski]

Just now, CityCiderEd said:

I know we're not getting battered but do you really think we have progressed from the end of last season?

When we finished last year we played some good attacking football and I for one couldn't wait for this season to start but that optimism has now been drained out of me and quite a few of the lads I sit with.

I feel we are now in a massive dogfight which I never thought would happen and although I agree with you about the individual errors it seems the same players are committing them on a fairly regular basis.If these issues are not sorted out quickly we will sadly be relegated with a manager (if he stays) who has spent freely and has a big squad to work with but seemingly unable to get the best out of.

Yes...we need new players in, and some of the one's we already have, either have to improve or move on. Easier said than done with availability and transfer windows etc.

[Spoons]

Find his best 11 and play a settled side, improve his substitutions .

[chinapig]

8 minutes ago, CityCiderEd said:

I know we're not getting battered but do you really think we have progressed from the end of last season?

When we finished last year we played some good attacking football and I for one couldn't wait for this season to start but that optimism has now been drained out of me and quite a few of the lads I sit with.

I feel we are now in a massive dogfight which I never thought would happen and although I agree with you about the individual errors it seems the same players are committing them on a fairly regular basis.If these issues are not sorted out quickly we will sadly be relegated with a manager (if he stays) who has spent freely and has a big squad to work with but seemingly unable to get the best out of.

What baffles me is why the high tempo, quick passing style we used or tried to use last season under LJ has been abandoned this in favour of slow and static play.

[pillred]

4 hours ago, city1983 said:

Needs to swallow his pride and put O'Neil back in the side. Go 4-4-2 and pick a settled and relatively experienced side. Everyone has their own opinion as to the best side bit for me it's 

gk - hopeful new loan signing

rb - Matthews once fit

cb - wright

cb - flint

lb - magnuson

rw - freeman

cm - hegeler

Cm - O'Neil 

lw - tomlin

cf - abraham

cf - Andy carol look alike

 

not perfect and think right back is a problem position. But for me that's the best side we currently have. We need a settled side.

yes for a moment I thought andy carol had joined us!

[djb6162]

2 hours ago, Red Grovesy said:

Play a line up like this for more than one match....

 

I haven't posted on hear for some time 

I read as much as I can but I think it's quite an explosive environment presently and there isn't much I can add that hasn't been covered anyway

something in your post above alerted me to perhaps one thing that is being underplayed or brushed under the carpet 

yesterday Bobby and Luke were  For whatever reason not included in the squad ( both started v Fulham )

yet engval was included 

it must now be obvious to everyone but the most stubborn or blind , that city have bought a player who has not turned out to be what they thought they were getting.

Not good enough to be trusted v Fleetwood in the cup even

for me the scandoul is that his inclusion is to cover up a costly embarrassment rather that to do the right thing 

surely Bobby or Luke or Goldbourne were clearly better and more practical assets To have at your disposal yesterday 

 

 

 

[IAmNick]

42 minutes ago, spudski said:

I agree...we've had lots of changes...but the majority are down to injury to players or loss of form.

People were crying out to go 442 or 352...we've done both and still lost.

Yesterday people couldn't understand Hegeler at CB...but Matthews is injured, Magners not 100%...and Bryan is a liability at LB and Golbourne the same. So you understand why Hegeler was played there, especially in a physical derby. It seems some fans just don't think through the reasoning, when you read this forum.

No team has completely battered us...we are scoring...we are conceding. The difference between us winning and losing is purely individual errors...you see it for yourself on match day.

But this is football, and games often come down to individual errors and they effect both teams. When I watch MotD each week I see them from even the best teams in the country - I'm not really sure we make a considerable number more than any other championship team. For a few games I could put it down to bad luck, or individual errors - but a much larger pattern is forming now and that reasoning I see you say a lot just doesn't hold water for me any more.

If the mistakes you mean are not closing down properly, letting players past you or get a cross in etc. you could look at our goals against Cardiff yesterday and point to mistakes of that calibre by their players - and in fact unless it's a wondergoal I would say most goals scored in football come down to a mistake of some degree by someone, especially outside the worlds top teams.

I feel like if you look at our squad now, we should not be in a relegation fight. Not just the cost, which is far higher than quite a few others performing significantly better than us, but also in their individual skill. Maybe players like Little and Freeman aren't top championship players but they can do a job for you, and would at other teams for a season or two while you built and improved. I have a feeling if Ayling and Cunningham were here we'd be hearing they were from the L1 squad, not Championship players, too many mistakes but they're doing well now away from here. How do other teams ever survive a step up to the Championship with that line of reasoning otherwise? You can't replace the entire squad in one summer.

At some point you have to look at the coaching and recently the game management - which as much as I don't like him we saw an excellent example of (game management) from Warnock yesterday I thought, and that's what we lack and our nativity in that area is costing us, I think (along with the other points commonly mentioned).

 

[1960maaan]

17 minutes ago, djb6162 said:

I haven't posted on hear for some time I read as much as I can but I think it's quite an explosive environment presently and there isn't much I can add that hasn't been covered anyway something in your post above alerted me to perhaps one thing that is being underplayed or brushed under the carpet  yesterday Bobby and Luke were  For whatever reason not included in the squad ( both started v Fulham )

yet engval was included .it must now be obvious to everyone but the most stubborn or blind , that city have bought a player who has not turned out to be what they thought they were getting.

Not good enough to be trusted v Fleetwood in the cup even

for me the scandoul is that his inclusion is to cover up a costly embarrassment rather that to do the right thing 

surely Bobby or Luke or Goldbourne were clearly better and more practical assets To have at your disposal yesterday 

Freeman's link to QPR could explain his absence , as for Bobby. With the starting lineup there would only really be room for BR or Tomlin on the bench.

Engvall is a funny one, he's looked lively the little I've seen and far too early for the fans to write him off. What LJ sees or doesn't see in training is anyones guess, but with the run of form we've had just to bring him on late on to keep the oppositions defence occupied would have seemed a good idea...... we get Wilbs.

To be fair, it was a pretty balanced bench. As I said above plus with Mags' on the bench we wouldn't need another LB as he could cover.

[Frenchay Red]

56 minutes ago, djb6162 said:

I haven't posted on hear for some time 

I read as much as I can but I think it's quite an explosive environment presently and there isn't much I can add that hasn't been covered anyway

something in your post above alerted me to perhaps one thing that is being underplayed or brushed under the carpet 

yesterday Bobby and Luke were  For whatever reason not included in the squad ( both started v Fulham )

yet engval was included 

it must now be obvious to everyone but the most stubborn or blind , that city have bought a player who has not turned out to be what they thought they were getting.

Not good enough to be trusted v Fleetwood in the cup even

for me the scandoul is that his inclusion is to cover up a costly embarrassment rather that to do the right thing 

surely Bobby or Luke or Goldbourne were clearly better and more practical assets To have at your disposal yesterday 

 

 

 

I was going to post Engval = Garita, but tbh not sure he's even that standard from what I've been told from within the club.

As a long shot I was rather hoping your lad would be on the bench. For me a much better prospect than a couple of wide players we have probably paid over the odds for.

[samo II]

17 minutes ago, Frenchay Red said:

I was going to post Engval = Garita, but tbh not sure he's even that standard from what I've been told from within the club.

Which is strange, as from what others have said wasn't he pretty lively against Hull (wasn't there myself)?

LJ also has mentioned in his press conferences how Engvall is now "ready" and the arrival of the Bosnian lad will give him a foil to work off.

So either it is a massive cover, or he's just so 'specialist' that can only be used in very limited circumstances... but that seems unlikely to me.

@djb6162raises a good point for me: LJ is far from shy in playing people out of position, but why oh why is Bobby Reid (who is one of our top goal/assist makers this season, and who he's deployed in centre mid, on the wing and behind the striker) out of the squad entirely, while O'Dowda is throw into the hole behind the strikers (or Paterson, who came on their against Fleetwood), and Engvall once agin warms the bench with no prospect of playing? 

I'm confused and concerned at what is going on.

[Frenchay Red]

4 minutes ago, samo II said:

Which is strange, as from what others have said wasn't he pretty lively against Hull (wasn't there myself)?

LJ also has mentioned in his press conferences how Engvall is now "ready" and the arrival of the Bosnian lad will give him a foil to work off.

So either it is a massive cover, or he's just so 'specialist' that can only be used in very limited circumstances... but that seems unlikely to me.

@djb6162raises a good point for me: LJ is far from shy in playing people out of position, but why oh why is Bobby Reid (who is one of our top goal/assist makers this season, and who he's deployed in centre mid, on the wing and behind the striker) out of the squad entirely, while O'Dowda is throw into the hole behind the strikers (or Paterson, who came on their against Fleetwood), and Engvall once agin warms the bench with no prospect of playing? 

I'm confused and concerned at what is going on.

I was away for the Hull game, but he came on at Brum for a few minutes and was okish. But I think the in-house view is we've bought a bit of a dud. 

As for for your other comments, I really think LJ has exhausted all his ideas and has no idea how to stop the rot, apart from saying he need more new signings. He may as well put all names in a hat under defenders, midfielders and forwards and draw ten out. Perhaps he's already doing that!

[samo II]

4 minutes ago, Frenchay Red said:

I was away for the Hull game, but he came on at Brum for a few minutes and was okish. But I think the in-house view is we've bought a bit of a dud. 

As for for your other comments, I really think LJ has exhausted all his ideas and has no idea how to stop the rot, apart from saying he need more new signings. He may as well put all names in a hat under defenders, midfielders and forwards and draw ten out. Perhaps he's already doing that!

My Dad watched Hull and said Engvall was "lively" and I think a few others were keen to see more, but I'll bow to your knowledge, as have yet to see him in the games I've attended (though have seen him sit on the bench).

Seeing Matthews in at centre back and O'Dowda in the hole has me thinking LJ is at the stage where he is clutching at straws.  Unless something truly dramatic happens in the way he is approaching our set up, I think he's run out of time.

How we can justify retaining any manager who takes us on a record losing run after spending the money he has, and having had the time he has to put over his philosophy I do not know.

[Tin Soldier]

A lot of so called fans on here are just talking crap. Fickle fans etc.

Get LJ out, blah, blah, blah. It is not happening, if we go down, we will rebuild, etc. Get behind the team, be patient, stop writing sh#t on OTIB and support the club. Makes me wonder how often so called fans posting on OTIB actually watch games currently. Like many, I have been through 40 years of ups and downs with BCFC, and if you want a downer, just remember 1982 ffs!!!

[Strawberry2157.]

8 hours ago, MelksRed said:

1. Employ a midfield and keep the ball on the ground.

2, Do not try and hold on to a slim lead - always play as if its nil-nil. We are crap at this!

3. Add continuity to the team selection to allow knowledge and trust to develop amongst the players.

4. Concentrate on the defence... There's no point scoring if you condede more that you score....defences win leagues not strikers.

5. Stop playing so deep when under pressure. It invites pressure and we always concede in the closing stages of a game (sometimes more than once)

6. Stop giving us sound bites....we want results...not reasons why its not working.....if you known adjust, train the players and rectify the issue.

7. Train as a Team...play as a team....win as a team

T - Together

E - Everyone 

A - Achieves

M- More

Melksred out

 

Under Cotts it was always 'us' we were a team from top to bottom. More than once LJ refers to 'them' when referring to the players. Where's the togetherness?

[Strawberry2157.]

2 hours ago, Frenchay Red said:

I was away for the Hull game, but he came on at Brum for a few minutes and was okish. But I think the in-house view is we've bought a bit of a dud. 

As for for your other comments, I really think LJ has exhausted all his ideas and has no idea how to stop the rot, apart from saying he need more new signings. He may as well put all names in a hat under defenders, midfielders and forwards and draw ten out. Perhaps he's already doing that!

@TETBURY MASSIVEhave you set up a new account!?!?

[boss hogg]

1 hour ago, GasDestroyer said:

A lot of so called fans on here are just talking crap. Fickle fans etc.

Get LJ out, blah, blah, blah. It is not happening, if we go down, we will rebuild, etc. Get behind the team, be patient, stop writing sh#t on OTIB and support the club. Makes me wonder how often so called fans posting on OTIB actually watch games currently. Like many, I have been through 40 years of ups and downs with BCFC, and if you want a downer, just remember 1982 ffs!!!

fickle me like thousands of other fans are just fed up with the near constant shit we get served up, city fans have to be up there with the most patient fans going been watching 25 years of mostly average lower division crap , just want a team we can be proud of not a joke club like lj is turning us into.

[Murraysrightplum]

9 hours ago, Red Army Faction said:

Play settled team and formation.  Players need to know who is around them and put together partnership across all area of the pitch.

Jens in front of defence.  Players on the wing that can cross the ball for Duric and Tammy up front.  

This x1000

[Cowshed]

5 hours ago, spudski said:

We do play with width PF...Little and Bryan are usually glued to the touchline.

Do you mean play with 'wingers' as in the Adomah type role?

You wish to play Tomlin in the Centre AM? And wide men? And Tammy and Duric up top?

That leaves one DM...

We can't defend a lead at the moment, so I'm not sure how you think that is going to work tbh. We'd be torn apart in midfield if we did as you suggest...

I agree about our set pieces, the delivery and attack of the ball is Amateur.

I've watched us this season closely.

We've played 1 up top...we've lost.

We've played with 2 up top in a 442....we've lost.

We've gone 352....we've lost.

We've tried numerous formula...we've changed many players this season due to injury and who was available. FF, Smith, Matthews, GoN, Magners of late.

LJ gets abused for changing too much...or not changing. He can't win.

The long and short of it is....we've lost games, not through tactics...but through individual errors. It happens every game. None of those mistakes are because of the tactics employed. They are down to individual errors....and it's often the same players making them.

We need better players...it's as simple as that. In GK, RB, LB, RM, LM....five new players needed in those positions, as first choice.

Any new manager would still have the same players to work with....they would still make the same mistakes.

How does anyone blame LJ for Brownhills flick back on the edge of the 18 yard box. Littles inept defending. Bryans inept defending and positioning.

We did a lot of things right yesterday...but it's the same players making the same mistakes, week after week after week.

LJ knows this...any new manager would see it straight away.

We've shut up shop and lost...we've played expansive wide open football and lost. Whatever we do formation wise...we lose.

We've tried pretty much everything...it still comes back to the same old problem...certain players just aren't good or consistent enough.

Injuries haven't helped...plus not getting experienced better players in during the summer probably didn't help. However...as a manager, who would have thought FF, Matthews, GoN and to a lesser extent Tomlin would be having the seasons they are having. 3 crucial players with that experience needed.

We need 5 players of the calibre of Magners, Wright  Hegeler and Duric brought in...those quality of players don't make the costly mistakes we see from individuals week in week out imo.

Lots of fans watch Bristol City closely.

The teams frailties are due to the Manager. City do not press the ball out of instruction. The team drops and gets compact and forms deep lines often letting the opposition have the ball.

If this is not the case an entire team is disobeying orders. If that is true It is still Mr Johnson's fault for not being able to shuffle a  pack of players and additions costing Fifteen million pounds (?) to find a team that can screen and press the ball efficiently in the opponents half with tempo.

The defending is a symptom of Lee Johnson's inept ability to convey whatever it is he is trying to convey weekly with his  excess tinkering to HIS team and HIS players.

 

[steveybadger]

9 hours ago, MarkRed! said:

Got to pick the best 11 and make some brave decisions. We have mjr problems at the back and I think we need to urgently think about what is required for a dog fight. I think we need a GK and a RB urgently and if we can get them then I think we will be OK:

The problem is I think LJ does not know what his best 11 or formation is. That is the root of the problem. For me, we have been lame all year and we are vulnerable. Two up front does not work for me and we get picked off in midfield too easily.  Thus:

 

New GK

Goldbourne Magnusson Wright New RB

Hegeler O'Neill 

Bryan Tomlin Paterson

Djuric

 

Now Tammy already has cult status for me but his hold up play is longing and he does not do enough for me off the ball. OK he is scoring goals but his link up is poor particularly when we are going direct and this means he gets isolated. Does not win many balls.  Djuric has held up more balls in 2 games that Tammy has all season and has 2 assists already. I think TA should be used as an impact player and rotate him an Djuric. Joe Bryan is not good enough defensively but did a job for us when he has played in an advance position, yet we continue to piss around and move him. Play him where he has been most effective. Tomlin must play for me and we need players who will give us better width (Bryan and Paterson do this for me).

Flint is one of my favourite players but the guy isn't a championship class defender for me. Baker made him look a better defender last year.  We need Hegeler to get on the ball. The guy is class and can dictate the game for me... far better than Pack and Brownhill in the middle.

 

Think you deserve some kudos for the bravest post on here - dropping Flint is one thing, dropping our goal machine is another altogether! Have to say though I agree with 1 Up front, just not that 1....