Assuming that Lee Johnson is staying...

[Red Exile]

34 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I don't think that was the point of this thread though, it was designed to be more productive than that and discuss what LJ could do to try and improve things.

Interestingly, people seem to be saying the same things by and large. It seems people want us to play with more organisation, to our strengths and with a settled team. If that means we have to go a bit more direct for a while then so be it, it's not like we're playing great football now anyway. We need results.

I agree Phileas that there's an encouraging degree of consensus...and for what it's worth I don't see a problem with the strength of the playing squad, one of the best we've ever had, potentially an excellent blend of experience and youth. Very encouraging for the future if the club makes the right leadership decisions now. 

What's discouraging is that a man who acknowledged he was a "marmite" appointment a year ago has not merely failed to win over his detractors, but (on the evidence of the people sat around me yesterday) has lost the majority of the remainder by singularly failing to do any of the things suggested in this thread...nothing on here is rocket science...

 

[Ivorguy]

1. Play wingers

2. Sign a goalie 

3. If poss, recall De Girolamo 

4. Bring in a top sports psychologist 

[Olé]

51 minutes ago, samo II said:

while those maybe not able to 'get' the complexity of this simply go on 'instinct' and hence look more effective

Exactly this.

When Mark Little, a player so derided and written off as part of that unfit League One cohort that LJ has otherwise comprehensively replaced, is your best attacking player for an hour, it says everything you need to know about the quality of the instructions and direction that the manager has given everyone else. 

Little is a lower league defender and not a very good one, but he gives his all going forward and rather reveals what is possible if you don't retreat backwards when the ball comes your way. People who defend LJ would have you believe it's the players that aren't up to it because they don't do what Little is doing.

Let that soak in for a moment.

[Bob Thompson]

Playing 352 when we've been up in games is dangerous. It was mistakes by Little and Bryon that gave away the goals. Proper fullbacks in a 442 to close the game out.

[Drew Peacock]

LJ could learn when and how to make substitutions to manage a game out.

[man in the middle]

28 minutes ago, city1983 said:

Needs to swallow his pride and put O'Neil back in the side. Go 4-4-2 and pick a settled and relatively experienced side. Everyone has their own opinion as to the best side bit for me it's 

gk - hopeful new loan signing

rb - Matthews once fit

cb - wright

cb - flint

lb - magnuson

rw - freeman

cm - hegeler

Cm - O'Neil 

lw - tomlin

cf - abraham

cf - Andy carol look alike

 

not perfect and think right back is a problem position. But for me that's the best side we currently have. We need a settled side.

that's a good championship side, we shouldn't go down with that team, mid table at worse.

[samo II]

4 minutes ago, Olé said:

Exactly this.

When Mark Little, a player so derided and written off as part of that unfit League One cohort that LJ has otherwise comprehensively replaced, is your best attacking player for an hour, it says everything you need to know about the quality of the instructions and direction that the manager has given everyone else. 

Little is a lower league defender and not a very good one, but he gives his all going forward and rather reveals what is possible if you don't retreat backwards when the ball comes your way. People who defend LJ would have you believe it's the players that aren't up to it because they don't do what Little is doing.

Let that soak in for a moment.

My father attended yesterday, and said he saw a frantic conversation take place between Brownhill, O'Dowda and Bryan just prior to Cardiff's penalty.  My Dad mentioned they seemed to be pointing to various areas of the pitch, and Brownhill left the chat clearly annoyed, and it seemed to be the case that they were trying to work out what areas of the pitch they were responsible for, and none of them knew.

I've never played professional football, but have played the game for fun, and one thing I know how to do is set up in a 442 or 352 and cover my position; that our team of professionals seem outfoxed by our own tactics and formations is mind blowing.

[Bobfish]

Fix the glaring errors:

 

1) The gaping hole in midfield  a)– Helegar must play here. Must. Any faith I have in LJ, and it has faded after yesterday’s selection and subs, is clinging to this. b) Energy alongside – Brownhill is good here, let him run down the other players, but come 60-70 mins when he has run himself into the ground and his head drops, (this hopefully will improve with game time) sub him for a wiser head like gon to martial the midfield and lock the game down, which brings me to point-

2) Game management. Lock the game down when we are ahead – reading, Cardiff, and god knows when else – go to flat back 442 (if not started,) press, keep possession, and hit them on the counter when they come at us. Our wing/full backs are lacking, so two banks on each side with out fb’s becoming old style left and right backs should stop those stupidly easy crosses coming in. Subs should support this; bringing on wilbs doesn’t.

3) An actual captain. Why is wilbs team captain when not on the pitch anymore? I think gon was originally designed for this, but since then it has switched between pack and smith, which may be the only reason either of them have been getting game time. If they can’t do their own jobs and martial the midfield, how are they going to martial the team? I get the whole “old guard” element, but this shows massively how flint lacks football intelligence, because whilst a constant on the team sheet, an old guard, he is not captain. New players now, new broom. Give it to helegar with his experience in the top flight, put him in midfield. New player, no favourites. And a bit scary at 6ft 4. Defensive minded so can shut up shop and as the most experienced player in terms of champions league etc can tell tomlin “Stay up the fu**ing pitch, or I’ll cut ya.”

4)Protect our weaknesses – bit like the game management – yesterday it became obviously clear what was going to happen when Cardiff brought on a pair of wingers, added to little being tired. Should have doubled up on the flanks to stop us being exploited. We were ahead.

5)Tomlin plays in the hole, or not at all. If he doesn’t play there then utilise width more in the team shape.

6)The two up top are starting to gel, so stick with it. Djuric looks class and mobile for his size.

7)Most of the old guard are not up for it, so give new ones a chance (LJ has been doing this) and stick with it. Let o’dowda make the wing his own, if only as a super sub. Not in the hole. We have tomlin for that. Let the midfield of helegar and brownhill gel. T and D up front. At the back? Wright and flint as 2 cb (although flint worries me somewhat), magners if a three- this also allows magners to shift to lb from a three, if locking the game down in a 442, as this is where he plays for Iceland.

8)Squad management. Rb and a gk needed, if not going to play Lucic. Need height and dominance of area and our defenders. Must come for crosses and flatten anyone in their god dam way. “See this box? It’s mine. MINE. Get the fu** out.” If freeman doesn’t want to rip your hand off to sign a new contact, sell him. Play patterson there. Burns. Let someone make it their own. If someone isn’t giving their all, drop them.

9) Nastyness. Needed on the pitch. Get in their face. The opposition needs to know they ain’t walking through our team. I admire all Australians for their stotic ability to take punishment, but if someone walks over your back, stay down. If someone is rolling around cheating, don’t give them back the ball. Sportsmanship is honourable, but you can’t let others use it against you. I ain’t talking about diving all the time or anything, I hate that, but the ref needs to know if they are cheating. And if we are ahead, take a breather, a little bit of time wasting to check our lines and shore up our defences.

 

 

[tinman85]

Don't sign a dominant midfield player and play him right centre back! Play O'Neil and Hegeler and Tomlin in the hole. Don't let Mark Little anywhere near a football. 

[italian dave]

1 hour ago, chinapig said:

Follow the sound principle that the first priority is to be hard to beat, something LJ seems not to have grasped when the likes of Grayson and Monk have focused on that first.

Mind you that needs us to bring in 2 new full backs quickly.

I think he's grasped it, and I think that's what he's trying to do, but that's where some of the current problems stem from.

He's gone to 5 at the back to try to make us harder to beat. He plays two deep midfielders to protect the back 4/5 to make us harder to beat. But both of those things have given us problems elsewhere that mean we're losing the ball too easily and constantly under pressure. And contributed to the constant changing of plan.

You're right: full backs are a problem. Matthews completely unreliable, Joe isn't a full back. Goulbourne doesn't go forward. Little is a good L1 RB. 

With what we've got, I'd like to see us go back to a back 4 with Little, Goulbourne, and two of Flint, Wright and Magnusson.

Be good to see a new full back, but personally I'd prefer a new keeper above that. One that will give the defence confidence and command his box. It currently feels like all 3 are a disaster waiting to happen. 

[Olé]

Says it all that the first three replies to this thread from @Red Army Faction, @Fordy62 and @MelksRed are all accurate, measured, logical conclusions that any sensible person would draw from watching our performances. If three fans can identify and point these things out so quickly in response to a message board posting, what has gone wrong with either the managers judgement or his relationship with the players, that those actually employed to get these things right, can't sort it out?

[Red Grovesy]

Play a line up like this for more than one match....

 

[CityCiderEd]

Won 4-0 away and never started this team again!!!!!!

[Dr Balls]

The common thread is that posters want us to play our best and most experienced players in their most comfortable positions and try to find the right blend from there. Round pegs in round holes is the phrase.

If I was the manager I would ask each player to tell me where they think they play best. They may be right, they may be wrong, but it would be worth trying to find out. That's what a new manager would do.

Make us difficult to beat. That means the midfield needs to protect the defence much better. We are not solid enough.

Play players who can give us some width and can cross the ball. Players who are comfortable on the ball rather than ones who fear it coming to them (we have been there before!).

Plsy midfielders who will run forward and support the attackers. Who will run beyond the player with the ball and move into space. We are still so horribly static in midfield most of the time.

Finslly have some subs you might actually use to change things or effectively counteract opposition changes. Preferably ones with pace up front and some strength in the middle or in defence.

So here goes for the next game assuming no new additions & fitness (I.e. Smith & Matthews definitely out; Freemsn off to QPR):

RO'D

Wright Flint Magnusson

Brownhill GO'N Hegeler Bryan

Tomlin

Djuric Abraham

Subs:

Fielding

Goulbourne

Little

Pack

Paterson

Engvall

Wilbraham

I will admit it's not perfect but it at least plays to the players strengths and has a reasonable blend of youth and experience, strength and pace.

It's what a significant number posted as what they would put out yesterday but of course that didn't happen. Would LJ pick this team? Probably not, but then that appears to be the point!

[man in the middle]

Just now, Red Grovesy said:

Play a line up like this for more than one match....

 

He did for the next game but then changed it and never went back, your right in saying we need a settled side no more swapping and changing because it didn't work one week

[Robbored]

38 minutes ago, chinapig said:

The alternative view is that lack of fitness leads to tiredness which leads to loss of concentration which leads to mistakes.

These are professional athletes who train virtually every day. Sure, player do tire as the match goes by but that applies to both teams.

[SouthStand Sandwich]

For Lee ; on game strategy and player formation...

forget POMO,forget Emotional intelligence, forget the PowerPoint, forget sound bites, corporate speak, marginal gains and all the stuff you've ripped off other people and stick to the well know acronym - KISS .... as in - Keep It Simple Stupid ....

i remember when he was being interviewed on RB after first arriving , he lauded the fact that he wanted to play wingers, play fast flowing football... so do it!!!

He seems to go out of his way to make things complicated...

the jimmy bullard soccer am piece on "you know the drill"? Completely highlights it?... no wonder the players are confused....

[RobArnold10]

What needs to happen? Play players in their correct positions for starters! Play your best players as well. So much square pegs and round holes right now!

         FF/New GK

ML/AM AF/BW HM SG

 JBh JHe/GON LF/JBr

                  LT

               TA MD

Had trouble differentiating between Brownhill Hegeler and Bryan then! 

Point is we don't play with width, so don't bother trying now because I think if we do it's at the expense of better players. So play compact with either O'Neil or Hegeler acting as engine room. In the other two midfielders we offer guys who can make a pass, link up well with Tomlin and also can tackle. I actually dispared at the line up yesterday, because it just feels like he's trying to be too clever, but he's really not!

[Red Grovesy]

4 minutes ago, hay dens party said:

He did for the next game but then changed it and never went back, your right in saying we need a settled side no more swapping and changing because it didn't work one week

We beat Leeds 1-0 the game after the 0-4 win at Fulham, with this line up.

That was two league wins on the trot with players who are still available to him today. We also kept two clean sheets. We also played teams who are currently in the top eight.

I wonder why he never went back to this? That's the question I would like him to answer.

 

[steviestevieneville]

2 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

I think he needs to build bridges with LT and GON. 

You can't go week in week out not playing your best players. 

GON has been out injured and tomlin , no matter how much I like him is a liability . Doesn't track back and just puts pressure on the rest of the midfield.

[MarkRed!]

Got to pick the best 11 and make some brave decisions. We have mjr problems at the back and I think we need to urgently think about what is required for a dog fight. I think we need a GK and a RB urgently and if we can get them then I think we will be OK:

The problem is I think LJ does not know what his best 11 or formation is. That is the root of the problem. For me, we have been lame all year and we are vulnerable. Two up front does not work for me and we get picked off in midfield too easily.  Thus:

 

New GK

Goldbourne Magnusson Wright New RB

Hegeler O'Neill 

Bryan Tomlin Paterson

Djuric

 

Now Tammy already has cult status for me but his hold up play is longing and he does not do enough for me off the ball. OK he is scoring goals but his link up is poor particularly when we are going direct and this means he gets isolated. Does not win many balls.  Djuric has held up more balls in 2 games that Tammy has all season and has 2 assists already. I think TA should be used as an impact player and rotate him an Djuric. Joe Bryan is not good enough defensively but did a job for us when he has played in an advance position, yet we continue to piss around and move him. Play him where he has been most effective. Tomlin must play for me and we need players who will give us better width (Bryan and Paterson do this for me).

Flint is one of my favourite players but the guy isn't a championship class defender for me. Baker made him look a better defender last year.  We need Hegeler to get on the ball. The guy is class and can dictate the game for me... far better than Pack and Brownhill in the middle.

 

[Tin Soldier]

2 hours ago, MelksRed said:

1. Employ a midfield and keep the ball on the ground.

2, Do not try and hold on to a slim lead - always play as if its nil-nil. We are crap at this!

3. Add continuity to the team selection to allow knowledge and trust to develop amongst the players.

4. Concentrate on the defence... There's no point scoring if you condede more that you score....defences win leagues not strikers.

5. Stop playing so deep when under pressure. It invites pressure and we always concede in the closing stages of a game (sometimes more than once)

6. Stop giving us sound bites....we want results...not reasons why its not working.....if you known adjust, train the players and rectify the issue.

7. Train as a Team...play as a team....win as a team

T - Together

E - Everyone 

A - Achieves

M- More

Melksred out

 

Great post. LJ is going nowhere, he won't be sacked. SL has stated on many occasions, he is planning for the future with LJ - even if we go down IMO. Anyway who do you replace him with? No one has come up with a credible alternative who would join the club.

Most games we have competed this year, missed only two home games so far. LJ is a "yes boss" manager to SL. The attendances are still good. Think BCFC will always be a bit of a yo yo club. Has always been badly run! Why be surprised? Expectations need to be realistic.

There's always the Gas next season - unless they go up!!! :laugh:

First time the ground will be full?

[man in the middle]

Just now, Red Grovesy said:

We beat Leeds 1-0 the game after the 0-4 win at Fulham, with this line up.

That was two league wins on the trot with players who are still available to him today. We also kept two clean sheets. We also played teams who are currently in the top eight.

I wonder why he never went back to this? That's the question I would like him to answer.

 

Very good question, my thoughts are after a couple of bad results he's so afraid of losing now he keeps picking a very defensive line-up, panic mode has set in. As the saying goes you defend from the front and its inevitable if we keep sitting back and have little attacking power each team will keep pressing us until they score again. In this division most players can finish from 20 yards out if you keep backing off, but if we attack them then that have something to worry about,

[Tears in rain]

I think 4-3-1-2 could be a shout?

Get MD up with Tammy and have Lee tomlin behind them

midfield 3 Hegeler, Pack, Then another cm 

then keep a routine back four so they can learn some communication

[Jack Dawe]

2 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

What needs to be done to turn this situation around?  Serious views only.  Negative comments about the manager not allowed...

Keep spending money and bringing in more players, the best and as many of them as you can attract, before the window shuts. And remember to put in relegation clauses.

[1960maaan]

20 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

GON has been out injured and tomlin , no matter how much I like him is a liability . Doesn't track back and just puts pressure on the rest of the midfield.

I heard yesterday it was a fall out with LJ and not an injury, true? I don't know but the story I was told was plausible .

In my mind we have (potentially ) a brilliant CM partnership with Oneil and Hegeler. I like the 3 at the back but yesterday we lost the game in midfield first, before the mistakes at the back. We have what looks to be , the best CM for some time with Hegeler , and we're not using him to his best at the back. Yes , I loved that he was given licence to come out from the back , but he could influence the game more 10 yards further forward. When Mags is fit he should slot into the 3 and allow Wright on to his natural side, and this would release Hegeler to step forward. But we should play our best players where they can make the biggest impact in the side. I also think this paring would allow Tomlin a bit of leeway to be himself in behind Tammy, although until we start winning I would probably have the extra midfielder in. Brownhill would be my choice. 

My point would be. With the side we can put out, how are we not winning ever ! Something is fundamentally wrong, yes the players are culpable and individual errors have cost us, but. The buck has to stop with the manager, specially when the substitutions are bizzarre and the players look lost with some tactics. 

For my five penneth worth. I would sack him now, put Pembo in charge , start the search and hope we can find someone with experience, at least a bit more than LJ , but someone that works well with younger players. Hard , but not impossible , although for the life of me I can't think of one. 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, samo II said:

My father attended yesterday, and said he saw a frantic conversation take place between Brownhill, O'Dowda and Bryan just prior to Cardiff's penalty.  My Dad mentioned they seemed to be pointing to various areas of the pitch, and Brownhill left the chat clearly annoyed, and it seemed to be the case that they were trying to work out what areas of the pitch they were responsible for, and none of them knew.

I've never played professional football, but have played the game for fun, and one thing I know how to do is set up in a 442 or 352 and cover my position; that our team of professionals seem outfoxed by our own tactics and formations is mind blowing.

The team of professionals on the pitch were playing to their tactical instructions.  The wily old fox professional managing the other team, switched formation to 433, creating overloads on our full-backs.  Our team of professionals on the sideline didn't react to that.  Brownhill and O'Dowda being in no-mans land, doing shuttles between wide midfield and centre.  Where were the rest of the team in spotting that the three 'youngsters' were up against it, or at least spotting that they were confused and trying to sort it out themselves? 

[Bazooka Joe]

Assuming Lee Johnson is staying - he can shadow our new, highly experienced manager (who has a background of achieving things at this level), and learn something.

[spudski]

2 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Find a settled 11 and stick with it (injuries permitting)

Sign a goalkeeper the defence feels confident playing with - hopefully the new German one will be that man

Utilise Tomlin in his best position - he's a great talent and it's wasteful to have him on the bench. Ok, he's volatile and it sounds like he's behaved badly. LJ needs to repair that relationship and get him at his best again. At his best, there are few better in this league than Tomlin to what he does. (Likewise with O'Neil, we need experience and leaders. If they've fallen out, they need to repair it)

Play with width - in my opinion we'd be far more dangerous stretching the opposition and getting balls into Tammy and Djuric. We saw Djuric's ability in the air and holding the ball up yesterday - make the most of it.

Improve set pieces - our set pieces are by and large pathetic. We've probably got one of the tallest teams in the league now and it's criminal if we continue not to use it. They're worth so many points a season if done correctly.

We do play with width PF...Little and Bryan are usually glued to the touchline.

Do you mean play with 'wingers' as in the Adomah type role?

You wish to play Tomlin in the Centre AM? And wide men? And Tammy and Duric up top?

That leaves one DM...

We can't defend a lead at the moment, so I'm not sure how you think that is going to work tbh. We'd be torn apart in midfield if we did as you suggest...

I agree about our set pieces, the delivery and attack of the ball is Amateur.

I've watched us this season closely.

We've played 1 up top...we've lost.

We've played with 2 up top in a 442....we've lost.

We've gone 352....we've lost.

We've tried numerous formula...we've changed many players this season due to injury and who was available. FF, Smith, Matthews, GoN, Magners of late.

LJ gets abused for changing too much...or not changing. He can't win.

The long and short of it is....we've lost games, not through tactics...but through individual errors. It happens every game. None of those mistakes are because of the tactics employed. They are down to individual errors....and it's often the same players making them.

We need better players...it's as simple as that. In GK, RB, LB, RM, LM....five new players needed in those positions, as first choice.

Any new manager would still have the same players to work with....they would still make the same mistakes.

How does anyone blame LJ for Brownhills flick back on the edge of the 18 yard box. Littles inept defending. Bryans inept defending and positioning.

We did a lot of things right yesterday...but it's the same players making the same mistakes, week after week after week.

LJ knows this...any new manager would see it straight away.

We've shut up shop and lost...we've played expansive wide open football and lost. Whatever we do formation wise...we lose.

We've tried pretty much everything...it still comes back to the same old problem...certain players just aren't good or consistent enough.

Injuries haven't helped...plus not getting experienced better players in during the summer probably didn't help. However...as a manager, who would have thought FF, Matthews, GoN and to a lesser extent Tomlin would be having the seasons they are having. 3 crucial players with that experience needed.

We need 5 players of the calibre of Magners, Wright  Hegeler and Duric brought in...those quality of players don't make the costly mistakes we see from individuals week in week out imo.

[bristolcitysweden]

3 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

What needs to be done to turn this situation around?  Serious views only.  Negative comments about the manager not allowed...

Atleast three new signings walking directly in to the team. SL will not give up on LJ and therefore need to invest heavily