Red Exile Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 7 hours ago, Chivs said: The highlighted portion really riles me. The football has not been shapeless and spineless...The true poll is the end of games. I heard a few half-hearted boos after Cardiff but they only lasted about 10 seconds. Johnson still has the support of most fans although this statement will bring out all the mouthy naysayers again. Thing is Chivs, I was amongst his supporters before Christmas...despite many of the performances - in my eye - being both shapeless and spineless. For clarity I'm thinking the first half at Rotherham where we couldn't break down a very poor side and conceded two calamitous goals, the second half at Sheff Weds after men were sent off, the closing minutes of Barnsley and now Reading & Cardiff. Now we had shape and a spine at times in those games I concede, but in moments of crisis it all fell apart. I've defended LJ's tactical ambition, I believe we need tactical fluidity...but he strikes me as being like a chap given a recipe book for Christmas and all the ingredients needed to cook something adventurous. Sadly he lacks the skills to produce the dish...it dies in the pan or on the plate...it seems to me, but obviously not to others, that it's beyond him. As for the boos...I've watched decades of disappointing City performances but I struggle to recall us throwing away matches in quite that fashion in successive home games. I don't know about anyone else but at the end of the match on Saturday I was stunned into silence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 After Cardiff, I felt that LJ had to go. However the reality is that he is still in charge. With that in mind, I really hope he beats Fleetwood, beats Forest and turns things around. Sadly I'm increasingly skeptical that will be the case. But I really want to be proved wrong. What concerns me is what @Red Exile highlights above about the way we're throwing matches away. I don't think we're playing badly, I don't think we look like a team that lacks confidence and I actually think that we were comfortably the better side on Saturday. But that makes it all the more concerning that we are committing hari kari in the last ten minutes of games... I really want LJ to succeed, I want us to persist with a manager for the long-term and, perhaps above all, I want all the people who've been smugly crowing that they always knew LJ wouldn't work out to have the words shoved so far down their throat that they poke out of the arse. But I'm increasingly unconvinced that that is what will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Fred Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 10 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Have I missed something Are you Lees Mum ? Sorry, I'll have some of what you've been smoking 12 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said: After Cardiff, I felt that LJ had to go. However the reality is that he is still in charge. With that in mind, I really hope he beats Fleetwood, beats Forest and turns things around. Sadly I'm increasingly skeptical that will be the case. But I really want to be proved wrong. What concerns me is what @Red Exile highlights above about the way we're throwing matches away. I don't think we're playing badly, I don't think we look like a team that lacks confidence and I actually think that we were comfortably the better side on Saturday. But that makes it all the more concerning that we are committing hari kari in the last ten minutes of games... I really want LJ to succeed, I want us to persist with a manager for the long-term and, perhaps above all, I want all the people who've been smugly crowing that they always knew LJ wouldn't work out to have the words shoved so far down their throat that they poke out of the arse. But I'm increasingly unconvinced that that is what will happen. 6 hours ago, Bar BS3 said: Remind me who was in charge for the second half of last season, when you felt so good about things..? Teams have bad runs. Yes, this is an exceptionally bad run, granted. If we were regularly getting thumped by 3,4,5 goals then I'd agree that's it's a lost cause. At the moment, still, I don't think it is. We ARE competetive. We HAVE had some bad luck. We HAVE lost games to stupid individual errors. Trust me, it's hard to defend things at the moment, but when I've seen City as a lost cause before and this ISN'T one of those times, yet..! We all have a tipping point...Lose the next two I guess won't quite push you over,and for me beyond that would be 'twiddling thumbs..Will be interesting to see how far you can stretch it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 6 minutes ago, Thatch35 said: You don't get 18000 (city home fan attendance) on the forum to vote do you? drr. So 346 is a good sample for online forum. It's not a sample any statistician would consider relevant. In theory 346 out of 18000 could be a good sample except a) not all forum posters go to every game, and nor do all City fans. The number of City supporters is therefore far higher than 18000. b) there is no statistical weighting. We have no way of knowing if the fans on here are an representative of City fans as a whole c) we probably aren't representative. People who post online tend to have stronger and more extreme views than ones who do not and people who vote in a "should the manager be sacked?" poll tend to be people with stronger feelings on that subject. Any supporter undecided, for example, would probably not vote rather than turn up as a "no". The poll is an indication supporters might want LJ to be sacked. But it certainly could not be seen as anything stronger than that. (For full disclosure, I voted for LJ to be sacked so I am not coming at this to defend LJ - just to point out it is a flawed sample) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 3 hours ago, SX227 said: Read the above. Slipped 14 positions - the rot has to be stopped. Wether it's the manager, or the players - that surely is a definitive sign that something is SERIOUSLY wrong with our club. Or is it a definitive sign of being on a (granted, very) poor run. During which we've not had a single heavy beating and have regularly got ourselves into winning positions in matches. Problems that need addressing and sorting out quickly? Definitely. Signs of SERIOUS problems throughout the club..? No, I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chivs Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 9 hours ago, CityCiderEd said: We actually took a 1-0 lead in the derby then went 2-1 up.Do you think we have played well this season? Were you there? At the end of last season I was so looking forward to the start of this one as I thought some of our performances promised so much for this season. I haven't enjoyed the football as much this season but whilst we were winning I thought that the good stuff would follow.Sadly it's been the opposite,What I've been watching recently has been poor and yes we've only lost by the odd goal but we seem to have got the losing mentality running through the team. Forest this week is massive because if we get beat by the odd goal again which some people think isn't that bad then we will be in deep s##t. Was I there? You cheeky monkey. I thought it was obvious that when I said we took a 2-0 lead that I meant we went ahead twice . I have enjoyed our football. How can anyone not enjoy a Tomlin Rabona pass? Or the sheer enthusiasm of Tammy? Or even Bryan's goal on Saturday? 2 hours ago, Red Exile said: Thing is Chivs, I was amongst his supporters before Christmas...despite many of the performances - in my eye - being both shapeless and spineless. For clarity I'm thinking the first half at Rotherham where we couldn't break down a very poor side and conceded two calamitous goals, the second half at Sheff Weds after men were sent off, the closing minutes of Barnsley and now Reading & Cardiff. Now we had shape and a spine at times in those games I concede, but in moments of crisis it all fell apart. I've defended LJ's tactical ambition, I believe we need tactical fluidity...but he strikes me as being like a chap given a recipe book for Christmas and all the ingredients needed to cook something adventurous. Sadly he lacks the skills to produce the dish...it dies in the pan or on the plate...it seems to me, but obviously not to others, that it's beyond him. As for the boos...I've watched decades of disappointing City performances but I struggle to recall us throwing away matches in quite that fashion in successive home games. I don't know about anyone else but at the end of the match on Saturday I was stunned into silence. You highlight our main problem. Sheff Wed should have been a major warning to us all. It's set a trend that we still can't get out of. I'm not sure what the answer is and worryingly, Johnson doesn't seem to know the answer. I suspect we need more experience and professionalism on the pitch at the end of games. Presumably this is why Wilbraham keeps coming on but it's the wrong position in the 85th minute. We need O'neill back, fit and with legs to last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CityCiderEd Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 18 minutes ago, Chivs said: Was I there? You cheeky monkey. I thought it was obvious that when I said we took a 2-0 lead that I meant we went ahead twice . I have enjoyed our football. How can anyone not enjoy a Tomlin Rabona pass? Or the sheer enthusiasm of Tammy? Or even Bryan's goal on Saturday? You highlight our main problem. Sheff Wed should have been a major warning to us all. It's set a trend that we still can't get out of. I'm not sure what the answer is and worryingly, Johnson doesn't seem to know the answer. I suspect we need more experience and professionalism on the pitch at the end of games. Presumably this is why Wilbraham keeps coming on but it's the wrong position in the 85th minute. We need O'neill back, fit and with legs to last. Admire your enthusiasm Chivs but mine is disappearing fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 16 hours ago, glastonred said: I know in the past few weeks the results haven't gone our way; and I know we've slipped down the table from 5th to 19th, but I'm still not pessimistic about our future. I have great faith in Lee Johnson turning things around. I am sick of the fickleness of fans, who whenever there is a poor period start baying for blood and demanding a change of manager. I would far rather stick with someone who has had a long association with City, and clearly loves this club, rather than a journeyman with no connection, who couldn't care less. I believe in giving managers a long period of time to make their mark, and I would like to see LJ in charge for many years to come. It's not as if we're in relegation form. Apart from against Brighton, we have played decent football and have often dominated possession. only slipping up from a lack of concentration at key moments which have cost us the game. I appreciate I may be overly optimistic, but I truly do not believe that we are playing relegation football. We're much better than that. We can turn this around. We can go forward with LJ at the helm, and we can begin to climb the league. We can be the team we all want City to be. We just have to have patience and hang in there. Our golden age could be just around the corner! I honestly couldn't give two hoots that he loves the club. John Cleese loves the club too, but I wouldn't want him as manager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
We live in hope Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 21 hours ago, glastonred said: I know in the past few weeks the results haven't gone our way; and I know we've slipped down the table from 5th to 19th, but I'm still not pessimistic about our future. I have great faith in Lee Johnson turning things around. I am sick of the fickleness of fans, who whenever there is a poor period start baying for blood and demanding a change of manager. I would far rather stick with someone who has had a long association with City, and clearly loves this club, rather than a journeyman with no connection, who couldn't care less. I believe in giving managers a long period of time to make their mark, and I would like to see LJ in charge for many years to come. It's not as if we're in relegation form. Apart from against Brighton, we have played decent football and have often dominated possession. only slipping up from a lack of concentration at key moments which have cost us the game. I appreciate I may be overly optimistic, but I truly do not believe that we are playing relegation football. We're much better than that. We can turn this around. We can go forward with LJ at the helm, and we can begin to climb the league. We can be the team we all want City to be. We just have to have patience and hang in there. Our golden age could be just around the corner! "It's not as if we're in relegation form" Seriously you can say this! We are not in relegation form! We have the worst last 10 record in the whole division. We have lost 10 out of 11.. That is relegation form end of! Lee Johnson does not deserve the Fans backing he has to earn it! He talks a very good story but has not delivered, at some point even our patient owner will wise up! LJ has limited people skills and he has shown this as he is too ready to blame the players when defeat arrives, when in fact just maybe he is not the man to bring the best out in them. Currently he believes the players are letting him down when maybe he should ask the question is he letting the players down! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 1 hour ago, Bar BS3 said: Or is it a definitive sign of being on a (granted, very) poor run. During which we've not had a single heavy beating and have regularly got ourselves into winning positions in matches. Problems that need addressing and sorting out quickly? Definitely. Signs of SERIOUS problems throughout the club..? No, I don't think so. Indeed. Results are dreadful and need to improve but the irony is the club is in the best shape I can remember it being. Two new stands,, a youth system that's in serious danger of producing players we can either play or sell for an actual transfer fee, a squad of players who we're likely to be able to sell on at profit, very few mediocre players on high wages, community engagement programme that actually seems to involve some community engagement and an actual long-term plan. That's not to ignore the fact there is a short-term rot that needs to be addressed, or the possibility the way to address that might be to ultimately sack the manager but this is pretty much the first time in about twenty-seven years of being a supporter that there do NOT seem to be serious problems at the club... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inactive user Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 15 hours ago, Ivorguy said: I know I am old and not the quickest with modern wit, but what on earth does this silly comment add to serious debate about the problems of, and faced by, City. OK presumably this is an inelegant way of saying 'donkey'. I despair at times and think us fans only get the team we deserve How on earth will the powers that be ever be persuaded to take fans views seriously Au contraire my friend. Have you not enjoyed the wonderful writing of A A Milne? Winnie the Pooh is a most wonderful read to share with the kids. Eyore, a carachter is the book is characterised as gloomy, pessimistic and melancholy. My response was a tongue-in-cheek suggestion that the other poster appeared a bit negative. No intention to call him a donkey. It really is a lovely booknow if you have children or grandchildren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inactive user Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 20 hours ago, glastonred said: I know in the past few weeks the results haven't gone our way; and I know we've slipped down the table from 5th to 19th, but I'm still not pessimistic about our future. I have great faith in Lee Johnson turning things around. I am sick of the fickleness of fans, who whenever there is a poor period start baying for blood and demanding a change of manager. I would far rather stick with someone who has had a long association with City, and clearly loves this club, rather than a journeyman with no connection, who couldn't care less. I believe in giving managers a long period of time to make their mark, and I would like to see LJ in charge for many years to come. It's not as if we're in relegation form. Apart from against Brighton, we have played decent football and have often dominated possession. only slipping up from a lack of concentration at key moments which have cost us the game. I appreciate I may be overly optimistic, but I truly do not believe that we are playing relegation football. We're much better than that. We can turn this around. We can go forward with LJ at the helm, and we can begin to climb the league. We can be the team we all want City to be. We just have to have patience and hang in there. Our golden age could be just around the corner! This take on analysis would support your optimism Glastonred. https://experimental361.com/2017/01/15/e-ratings-update-championship-14-jan-2017/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glastonred Posted January 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 2 hours ago, Rednwhiterob said: This take on analysis would support your optimism Glastonred. https://experimental361.com/2017/01/15/e-ratings-update-championship-14-jan-2017/ I didn't quite understand it, but thanks anyway. As the OP it's been interesting reading people's comments, and I do recognise I do suffer from eternal optimism (maybe it's got something to being a longtime flower child from Glastonbury!) I also want to clear up my point about not being in relegation form. Of course I'm aware we've plummeted downwards over the past couple of months, but we haven't been as mediocre performance-wise as other clubs in the same predicament. The football has been competitive, for the most part, and I don't see our players lacking in effort. Individual errors have cost us, not lack of spirit.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 21 hours ago, Emperor Palpatine said: What exactly is a happy clapper? Someone who supports the club through all good and bad periods? Yes I guess we all are then... To name but a few... Neville Chamberlain was a happy clapper. Nero was a happy clapper. Shirley Ellis was a happy clapper. Dai O'Rhea was a ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 21 hours ago, Emperor Palpatine said: What exactly is a happy clapper? Someone who supports the club through all good and bad periods? Yes I guess we all are then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 21 hours ago, Emperor Palpatine said: What exactly is a happy clapper? Someone who supports the club through all good and bad periods? Yes I guess we all are then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inactive user Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 1 hour ago, glastonred said: I didn't quite understand it, but thanks anyway. As the OP it's been interesting reading people's comments, and I do recognise I do suffer from eternal optimism (maybe it's got something to being a longtime flower child from Glastonbury!) I also want to clear up my point about not being in relegation form. Of course I'm aware we've plummeted downwards over the past couple of months, but we haven't been as mediocre performance-wise as other clubs in the same predicament. The football has been competitive, for the most part, and I don't see our players lacking in effort. Individual errors have cost us, not lack of spirit.... My take is that according to that analysis we've a 10% chance of relegation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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