Steve Lansdown's "gut instinct" and some other quotes that might be of interest

[glynriley]

4 minutes ago, Emperor Palpatine said:

Depends how you term the word experience.. we've had 'experienced' managers at this level and they've failed also

Such as?

Apart from Cotterill and SOD (forget Coppells 1 game in charge) you probably have to go back to Denis Smith to find someone who has managed us at this level, with any experience of it.

Millen, McInnes, Johnson, Ward and Osman are, I think, the other managers we've had in the second tier since Smith none of whom had any experience at this level.

[1bristolcity]

3 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Absolutely right

A Bruce , Hughton , if one such as become available you grab them while they are

Wouldn't want to come here.

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 minute ago, 1bristolcity said:

Wouldn't want to come here.

Possibly not when we are in this mess 

(Again )

 

What I'm saying is when we are 'ok'  with A N OTHER at the helm , and when ready to push on you wait for a Bruce type to fall on the market and you move quick

Hello Mr Bruce

Goodbye Mr A N Other

 

Ruthless ? Yes

Required to succeed - Likely

[Jack Dawe]

29 minutes ago, 1bristolcity said:

As I said we need to improve coaches I guess, rather then keep changing managers, when you think about it it's a crazy thing this football manager musical chairs. Success is built on long term stability, I give you Alex Ferguson.

A lovely thought - that Bristol City are so strong, so solid at this level of football, that we can afford to "improve" the Head Coach on the job. Alas, we are in no position to do this. In L1, maybe......

A young player can be "improved" in the U23s, through coaching, with substitute appearances, by going out on loan - all where his mistakes are not too costly, or at someone else's expense. But a Head Coach has no such luxury or alternatives; his mistakes are costly. And wide-reaching.

I cannot imagine the interview last Jan/Feb involved talk of Lee "learning on the job" and being given a chance to "improve" in the midst of a desperate relegation struggle. That is not the impression we were given at the time. We were told:

Lee was the outstanding candidate (MA)

He will take us forward (MA)

Lee has great ability (SL)

We are lucky to have Lee Johnson as our new Head Coach (SL).

I see a young, up-and-coming manager who has good experience under his belt (SL).

He is an in demand manager (SL).

I know him better than any manager we could have appointed (SL)***

We want somebody who can come in and make the football side of the club top-rate (SL)

I know Lee is good tactically (SL)

Lee might lack Championship experience, but you only have to look at his record.....he pushed them (Oldham) towards the play-offs.....on a not very big budget (SL)

The fact is, Lee will fit seamlessly into what we are trying to do here (SL)***

 

Then, in May:

We have made so much progress in the past few months, that I feel that we are going into the summer in a good place to take it forward (SL)

___________________________________________________________________________

 

I can find nothing about us "improving" Lee. We were in the sh1t when he arrived. He was brought here to "improve" us, and then "take it forward" this season. We were, undoubtedly, in a "good place to take it forward" both in the summer, and the autumn.

 

***My guess is these two quotes point us toward what most attracted SL to LJ, particularly following his difficulties with Cotterill.

[Gillies Downs Leeds]

1 hour ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Possibly not when we are in this mess 

(Again )

 

What I'm saying is when we are 'ok'  with A N OTHER at the helm , and when ready to push on you wait for a Bruce type to fall on the market and you move quick

Hello Mr Bruce

Goodbye Mr A N Other

 

Ruthless ? Yes

Required to succeed - Likely

Indeed Bob, this is what Southampton did to move forward, Adkins was doing a good job their, but the board identified Pochettino as the man that could take them even further and made the switch. 

[shelts]

3 hours ago, pongo88 said:

We're not in the relegation places just yet, by 2 points, but that's due to the cushion provided by the first 2-3 months of the season. If City had been playing really well then, I might be confident LJ could turn things around. Unfortunately, even when City was winning, the performances were variable to say the least. Matches were saved by Tammy's goals and / or a 30 minutes or so period of play when City played well. Throw in the fact that we've spent millions on Engall and Moore who can't get into the team, and Paterson and O'Dowda who look like powder puff players and LJ strategy seems non existent.  I really hope that SL looks back on the season as a whole and takes the necessary action

I wouldn't hold your breath. Last time I saw us play well was at home second half against Forest. Wilbs came on and we looked decent . 

[ontariored]

3 hours ago, marmite said:

Even if SL still believes LJ can turn things round and will be here for the long term, it must be obvious to the board that he is struggling big time. If LJ has to stay then get him some experienced help NOW!!. The guy is so far out of his depth. He needs some guidance and he needs it fast or we will sink like a stone.

 

 

Great post!!

[Xiled]

2 hours ago, Gillies Downs Leeds said:

Indeed Bob, this is what Southampton did to move forward, Adkins was doing a good job their, but the board identified Pochettino as the man that could take them even further and made the switch. 

Huge, huge gamble! If a manager is doing okay (especially with our recent record) then taking a chance on an even better manager could backfire spectacularly. Pochettino couldn't even speak English when he arrived in Southampton, I can't see any club taking a chance like that unless the incumbent had already started burning bridges.

[Red Exile]

Two thoughts regarding comparisons in this thread:

1. when Alex Fergusson was appointed Man U. manager he was the winner of domestic leagues title, domestic and European cup competitions and had managed his national side at the World Cup...I'd suggest that that was a demonstrable track record of success with which to fend off doubters...LJ is some way off any of those achievements! 

2. Southampton are a club that have been playing in the top flight on and off for 50 years...and despite spectacular board upheavals in recent times and all sorts of woes they nonetheless attract people to run them who have the means and ambition to sustain top flight football. I'd love us to be more like Southampton, but for whatever reason Bristol City has none of that experience...and precious little evidence of that sort of ambition.

[Ivorguy]

The original poster's quote from SL tells everyone in what a horrendously amateur way this club is being run

I have been, and am, appalled as someone who has been in his career a CEO of a multi million pound company.

[Kid in the Riot]

9 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

2. Southampton are a club that have been playing in the top flight on and off for 50 years...and despite spectacular board upheavals in recent times and all sorts of woes they nonetheless attract people to run them who have the means and ambition to sustain top flight football. I'd love us to be more like Southampton, but for whatever reason Bristol City has none of that experience...and precious little evidence of that sort of ambition.

I think that's the bit that kills me...the apparent lack of ambition...

Tinnion, Millen, McInnes, SOD, LJ.

Do ANY of those names smack you of "crikey this owner definitely wants to get his club into the top flight asap"?

Do they ****.

[Red Exile]

19 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I think that's the bit that kills me...the apparent lack of ambition...

And the problem, for me, and the bit that I lose patience with, is that the ambition is all words, words that the actions so singularly fail to match as @Jack Dawe's quotes so eloquently make clear...

[Engvall's Splinter]

6 hours ago, glynriley said:

Spot on. Who wouldn't want to work for an owner who backs his managers (with one or 2 exceptions) with bundles of cash?

An owner who allows his managers to go on long losing / non winning runs before pulling the trigger?

I'd imagine there are a good number of managers who'd love to work for Steve L. The unfathomable thing is why SL won't pay top dollar for a guy in the hot seat (Coppell aside) 

If,and almost certainly now, when, LJ is dumped, he has to go for the best man for the job, and pay the going rate.

Here lies the problem though. The managers Lansdown have appointed (Bar Cotterill) have all been nice, friendly yes men. From Tinnion, Millen, McInnes etc. I can't imagine these guys were very confrontational or would challenge SL. SC would've and must likely rocked the boat too much. I believe we need someone with discipline, respect and experience. Johnson has little to none as a manager. 

[EnclosureSurge]

1 hour ago, Red Exile said:

is that the ambition is all words, words that the actions so singularly fail to match

I'd go further than that, Lansdown's words about ambition (he has regularly mentioned us getting into the Premiership) are words backed up by, not even failed action, but such wrong decisions and incompetence. Very grateful for his money, but he should let someone else have ultimate say on things, someone with a long, successful football background.

[Red-Robbo]

6 minutes ago, Port Pete said:

Here lies the problem though. The managers Lansdown have appointed (Bar Cotterill) have all been nice, friendly yes men. From Tinnion, Millen, McInnes etc. I can't imagine these guys were very confrontational or would challenge SL. SC would've and must likely rocked the boat too much. I believe we need someone with discipline, respect and experience. Johnson has little to none as a manager. 

I think he was sacked because he couldn't get us out of the relegation zone for 5 months and seemed incapable of recruiting anyone, rather than as a result of his personality.

Agree with your last sentence mind....

[Engvall's Splinter]

21 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

I think he was sacked because he couldn't get us out of the relegation zone for 5 months and seemed incapable of recruiting anyone, rather than as a result of his personality.

Agree with your last sentence mind....

I don't dispute why SC was sacked. Results related ultimately which I agree. The character of Lansdowns appointments are what I'm referring too really. 

With past history, if Johnson was to go, it would most likely end up with Pemberton at the helm for an extended period, Millen returning or another likeable guy rather than one who's likely to drag us out the mire. 

[Red-Robbo]

Just now, Port Pete said:

I don't dispute why SC was sacked. Results related ultimately which I agree. The character of Lansdowns appointments are what I'm referring too really. 

With past history, if Johnson was to go, it would most likely end up with Pemberton at the helm for an extended period, Millen returning or another likeable guy rather than one who's likely to drag us out the mire. 

To be honest, I think Pembo could probably get us enough points to stay clear of the drop. He improved Cotts' team just by doing the obvious things.

He'd be my this season choice if we haven't got anyone better lined up.

[Jack Dawe]

35 minutes ago, EnclosureSurge said:

I'd go further than that, Lansdown's words about ambition (he has regularly mentioned us getting into the Premiership) are words backed up by, not even failed action, but such wrong decisions and incompetence. Very grateful for his money, but he should let someone else have ultimate say on things, someone with a long, successful football background.

To be fair to SL, that is why MA is here now, I believe? That's a step forward (fingers crossed). It's a lot to expect him to cover debt, revamp the ground and etc, etc, then back off completely and leave others to spend his and our dosh.

[EnclosureSurge]

8 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

To be fair to SL, that is why MA is here now, I believe? That's a step forward (fingers crossed). It's a lot to expect him to cover debt, revamp the ground and etc, etc, then back off completely and leave others to spend his and our dosh.

It's exactly what to expect. He can't be involved in every decision at Hargreaves Lansdown, esp ones about which he has no expertise. eg I doubt he chooses the operating systems on their IT kit, he'd get someone else to do that. If the IT system has a failure, i doubt he's the one to select the company to overhaul it. Similarly he has absolutely no football pedigree at all. He didn't know it existed till his son dragged him along. Yet he chooses the manager - not every time, but then the other blokes choosing the manager are not much good either. Keith "always knew" Cotts was gonna be a winner. Where's Keith when you need his all-knowingness?

[Jack Dawe]

7 minutes ago, EnclosureSurge said:

It's exactly what to expect. He can't be involved in every decision at Hargreaves Lansdown, esp ones about which he has no expertise. eg I doubt he chooses the operating systems on their IT kit, he'd get someone else to do that. If the IT system has a failure, i doubt he's the one to select the company to overhaul it. Similarly he has absolutely no football pedigree at all. He didn't know it existed till his son dragged him along. Yet he chooses the manager - not every time, but then the other blokes choosing the manager are not much good either. Keith "always knew" Cotts was gonna be a winner. Where's Keith when you need his all-knowingness?

SL has 20 years experience on the inside of football now - that is some pedigree. 

Oh, and on another thread somewhere, you said we never see SL et al when we are doing sh1te - this is not true. December 2015 he was interviewed (it's on youtube somewhere) in which said, amongst other things, "we're doing okay" ! And something about expecting us to be "challenging at the other end of the table next season." Might be why he's giving it a miss this winter....

[EnclosureSurge]

1 minute ago, Jack Dawe said:

SL has 20 years experience on the inside of football now - that is some pedigree. 

And if you read what I put earlier, I specified someone with long, successful football background. In no way does Lansdown's 20 years constitute a success. More than half his 20 years spent in the 3rd division, with all the money he has/he's sanctioned being spent? That's only success in a warped, backward Bristol way. 

And let's not start on what we've said before and raking over that. I think people would 'back me' for saying none of the club come out and say anything when things are like this. It's a fact. That one appearance by Lansdown listen to what he says and you can hear how stupid he is, frankly. "In many ways we've done ok. I think our players now have got the experience of being in the Championship". What, after less than half a season and in the bottom 3? Yes, Steve. He sounds like an infant talking about players - "we need a midfielder and you always need someone to stick it away in the back of the net" - he really should leave well alone. Thanks for the money, thanks for the unselfish help, but please let someone else have final say. His pedigree is poor.

)

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

8 hours ago, Jack Dawe said:

SL's instinct now, in 2017, has the benefit of 20 years experience from the inside of football, which it didn't before (obviously). It is informed by experience now. It must have something to contribute to this tricky part of running a club

20 years experience and he still consistently drops humungous bollocks.

[Jack Dawe]

12 minutes ago, EnclosureSurge said:

And if you read what I put earlier, I specified someone with long, successful football background. In no way does Lansdown's 20 years constitute a success. More than half his 20 years spent in the 3rd division, with all the money he has/he's sanctioned being spent? That's only success in a warped, backward Bristol way. 

And let's not start on what we've said before and raking over that. I think people would 'back me' for saying none of the club come out and say anything when things are like this. It's a fact. That one appearance by Lansdown listen to what he says and you can hear how stupid he is, frankly. "In many ways we've done ok. I think our players now have got the experience of being in the Championship". What, after less than half a season and in the bottom 3? Yes, Steve. He sounds like an infant talking about players - "we need a midfielder and you always need someone to stick it away in the back of the net" - he really should leave well alone. Thanks for the money, thanks for the unselfish help, but please let someone else have final say. His pedigree is poor.

)

Never mind SL and all that. Go and post something cheerful and nostalgic on the Glyn Riley thread

[NickJ]

14 minutes ago, EnclosureSurge said:

And if you read what I put earlier, I specified someone with long, successful football background. In no way does Lansdown's 20 years constitute a success. More than half his 20 years spent in the 3rd division, with all the money he has/he's sanctioned being spent? That's only success in a warped, backward Bristol way. 

And let's not start on what we've said before and raking over that. I think people would 'back me' for saying none of the club come out and say anything when things are like this. It's a fact. That one appearance by Lansdown listen to what he says and you can hear how stupid he is, frankly. "In many ways we've done ok. I think our players now have got the experience of being in the Championship". What, after less than half a season and in the bottom 3? Yes, Steve. He sounds like an infant talking about players - "we need a midfielder and you always need someone to stick it away in the back of the net" - he really should leave well alone. Thanks for the money, thanks for the unselfish help, but please let someone else have final say. His pedigree is poor.

)

Agree with what you say and what is revealing about that interview is SL spends most of it talking through the various positions and where we need to strengthen and what sort of player we need to strengthen. Without once mentioning the person whose supposedly job that is, the manager.

Massive indicator of the problem and massive indicator of what went wrong in summer 2015 IMO.

[shelts]

Where would we be without the idiot that puts millions into a loss making venture. Thanks Steve  

[Superjack]

4 hours ago, Engvall's Splinter said:

Here lies the problem though. The managers Lansdown have appointed (Bar Cotterill) have all been nice, friendly yes men. From Tinnion, Millen, McInnes etc. I can't imagine these guys were very confrontational or would challenge SL. SC would've and must likely rocked the boat too much. I believe we need someone with discipline, respect and experience. Johnson has little to none as a manager. 

Keith Dawe brought Cotterill in.

I really wish that people would remember this. Particularly when discussing Lansdown's managerial appointments.

[42nite]

So, when the job was advertised last (and subrequently given to Lee), Ashton said something along the lines of.....There were some surprising applicants....or something like that.

Do we have any idea who these people might have been?

[RedM]

We just seem to spend our time lurching from one project to the next, tighten our belts, spend, spend, spend, pillars, buying for the future, challenging for the Premier etc. First we want to be like Reading so we bring in Coppell, now we want the next Eddie Howe so we grab LeeJ. Why can't we just be ourselves. I really don't think we know what we want. #MakingBristolLost

[kevster3]

Because the board is a joke, and they are making us a laughing stock

[JamesBCFC]

20 hours ago, Londoner said:

Give some examples re first paragraph

Rowett, Howe, Cooper, Karanka, Monk, Clement.

 

I've left out the 'big name' managers.