JoeAman08 Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 11 minutes ago, samo II said: You're right of course; it is just that. But I think looking back at performances in September as any sort of indication as to how we'll do now is bold. For context; Newcastle only beat Rotherham 1-0 away back in early October, and yesterday took them apart 4-0 at St. James - I'd suggest we would get similar treatment. Same with Villa, who we were fortunate to face before Bruce was apppointed, and think they'd be a different proposition now. Even if the players did up their game to face the top sides (and I don't doubt they would; just that it wouldn't make any difference), I cannot see us getting points in enough games to stay up right now, based on how we set up and the apparoch we take. And that comes from LJ, hence why I think we're in need of a new head coach. I think we'll stay up in the end. Form aside I think we are better than bottom half let alone bottom 3. Counts for nothing I'm aware just how I feel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 'We have identified a new list of players that will help us that extra % 1 I promise now, it will only take another four windows' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samo II Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 1 minute ago, JoeAman08 said: I think we'll stay up in the end. Form aside I think we are better than bottom half let alone bottom 3. Counts for nothing I'm aware just how I feel I think my fear is that we absolutly have a squad and players capable of pushing top half or even perhaps top ten, but that a combination of something 'off' in their mentality, and LJ struggling to find a line up and formation to best utilise them has placed us under insurmountable pressure as a club, and LJ doesn't have the relevant experience to break us out. I've written off us getting anything versus Wednesday at home, after watching them match up an impressive Brighton side on Friday, and nearly get something from an intense game of attacking football. But my fear is that the following game, Rotherham will do what so many have in this recent run, and trip us up by simply being more streetwise and cynical - we simply are not ruthless enough. If LJ stays, I of course want him to do well, because the alternative is us going down. I just think that to give us maximum opportunity to win the point we needed to stay up, he is more of a hindrance than a help on this front right now. I respect other people My disagree, but I truly fear for us now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAman08 Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 6 minutes ago, samo II said: I think my fear is that we absolutly have a squad and players capable of pushing top half or even perhaps top ten, but that a combination of something 'off' in their mentality, and LJ struggling to find a line up and formation to best utilise them has placed us under insurmountable pressure as a club, and LJ doesn't have the relevant experience to break us out. I've written off us getting anything versus Wednesday at home, after watching them match up an impressive Brighton side on Friday, and nearly get something from an intense game of attacking football. But my fear is that the following game, Rotherham will do what so many have in this recent run, and trip us up by simply being more streetwise and cynical - we simply are not ruthless enough. If LJ stays, I of course want him to do well, because the alternative is us going down. I just think that to give us maximum opportunity to win the point we needed to stay up, he is more of a hindrance than a help on this front right now. I respect other people My disagree, but I truly fear for us now. Your opinion is valid. Something is off. I'm just banking on our talent carrying us out of it eventually. Probably wishful thinking though. We will see soon enough. SW aren't flying at the moment either. Better than us of course but they aren't the SW of last season which we ended up beating. Funny game football at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olé Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 1 hour ago, sodburyred said: Forest were probably one of the worst teams I've seen at the gate in a long time this season and I keep using them as an example of why we won't get relegated..... Well they've just beaten us so that arguments flawed Yes, and Forest weren't and still aren't very good. The point people may miss, is that these really poor teams who ended up beating AND overtaking us, it's not like they'd suddenly turned into good teams. We used the same language about Ipswich before we went there (below us, won one in five) and despite beating and overtaking us they're still not very good and they've gone on to lose three more times since we played them, including to Lincoln City. I feel sure Forest will continue to struggle badly even after our gift. Brentford lost 4 in 5 before coming to us, beat us and overtook us, but have only won 1 out of 6 since. There was hopeful language when we went to Wolves (who had won only a couple of games in three months and were regularly getting beaten) who beat and overtook us but have only won once since. We keep losing to poor teams when league position is directly up for grabs, that themselves don't get any better - it's just a reflection of how absolutely awful we are. To lose 8 in a row is obviously unacceptable, but for 5 of the 8 games to be to teams immediately below us who could leapfrog us, shows a real lack of fight, particularly as most of these teams are still blundering about in the lower half of the division! And don't forget where it all started - as high as Huddersfield are in the table, we went there with a fair amount of expectation as as they were on a terrible run of one win in eight (albeit they at least have been strong since). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samo II Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 @Olé - This is what scares me; I don't think we have really faced an in form or quality team during this run; Reading and perhaps Huddersfield may be the exceptions. Watching Wednesday take the game to a very good Brighton side on Friday, and knowing they have only lost twice in eight, makes me terrified as to the mess they could make of us when they visit the Gate. I'm watching the end of the Burnley game now, and though I know we might raise our game in a 'free hit' against them at their place, they've given Arsenal a real game this afternoon, and unless they rest a lot of players, they might decimate us. It is scary that after an appalling run like this we still have to face four top eight sides in our next six. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olé Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 Another stat line for you - the combined 5-game pre-match form of the 8 consecutive teams to beat us, was exactly 1 point per game - relegation form - and included 50% defeats: that is, those 8 teams had lost a combined 20 matches from each of their 5 games prior to playing us. It's not like we've been playing any form teams yet, perhaps Reading at most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olé Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 4 minutes ago, samo II said: @Olé - This is what scares me; I don't think we have really faced an in form or quality team during this run; Reading and perhaps Huddersfield may be the exceptions. Huddersfield's 8 league games prior to playing us - W1 D2 L5, and in they hadn't won in 5 when we played them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samo II Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 11 minutes ago, Olé said: Huddersfield's 8 league games prior to playing us - W1 D2 L5, and in they hadn't won in 5 when we played them! It's why I'm more worried about getting the points to stay up this year than I was last. When Cotts left, and we immediately beat Middlesbrough, they'd gone nine games without conceding, and were on the brink of a football league record of consecutive clean sheets. Even without a manager, in light of that victory and the fact we had games against key relegation rivals (Charlton, MK Dons) in the next five games, I felt that the 'lift' of just having ANYONE else other than Cotts in charge meant we could get out of the bottom three. That we also immediately recruited four players boosted that confidence. I don't have a similar sensation now; we're on a much, much worse immediate run than we were under Cotts, and I think we've played our transfer hand already, as well as facing tougher teams across the next five or so games. Something radical must happen, and the only thing that is left is a shake up of leadership, which puts the problem firmly in LJ wheelhouse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rum Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 5 hours ago, ciderbeans said: Because Rotherham, Blackburn, burton and Wigan are below us and no matter how bad we are, they will be worse We are the definition of free fall - our trajectory is taking us one way. If you were driving a car at 70 mph towards a brick wall you wouldn't sit back and admire the view until you crashed - you would do something before it was too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 @Olé @samo II As two,posters whom I really respect , both in terms of knowledge and explanation in posts Is there any chance you could halt the very sensible, reasoned discussion as the more I read the more I'm convinced we are going down , unless there's a significant and immediate turn in events , although that was my basic feeling anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samo II Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 7 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: @Olé @samo II As two,posters whom I really respect , both in terms of knowledge and explanation in posts Is there any chance you could halt the very sensible, reasoned discussion as the more I read the more I'm convinced we are going down , unless there's a significant and immediate turn in events , although that was my basic feeling anyway Yeah; it's all a bit depressing, isn't it? Am going to log off and watch the Chelsea match I think. Nothing will happen today on the LJ front - that much is clear. Might venture back when I have to take a three hour train ride for work on Tuesday morning, God help me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelts Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 5 hours ago, GrahamC said: Wigan have just won their last two, Blackburn won at Newcastle recently and drew with Brum yesterday and even Burton are picking points up despite having a Rovers' sized budget. You are deluded mate, we will definitely go down without a change at the top. The Gaffa has spoken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenkibby. Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 5 hours ago, ciderbeans said: Because Rotherham, Blackburn, burton and Wigan are below us and no matter how bad we are, they will be worse Ciderbeans fair play to you for your faith. After reading all the replies I think you need to come back with the most compelling post of all time to give the masses any hope that you somehow could be right!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olé Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 5 hours ago, ciderbeans said: Because Rotherham, Blackburn, burton and Wigan are below us and no matter how bad we are, they will be worse At the risk of turning this into a statto thread, it's worth also noting that those 4 teams left below us are 4 of the 5 lowest spenders in the division, all of whom have spent less than a million this season (using Transfermrkt totals for consistency) - we on the other hand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityred exile Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 2points above the line , but effectively 3 with our far superior goal difference, 4points out of next 2 matches shouldn't be a problem should it ? Or are we going to lose 6 on the spin at home / and 10 on the trot and get another in wanted record , NO COURSE WE AINT ! that leaves just 16 points from 51 available To get on to 47points AGAIN NO PROBLEM HERE IS THERE !!! COME ON FAR TO MUCH NEGATIVEY ON HERE COME LIGHTEN UP ANY ENJOY THE RIDE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityironman Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 8 minutes ago, cityred exile said: 2points above the line , but effectively 3 with our far superior goal difference, 4points out of next 2 matches shouldn't be a problem should it ? Or are we going to lose 6 on the spin at home / and 10 on the trot and get another in wanted record , NO COURSE WE AINT ! that leaves just 16 points from 51 available To get on to 47points AGAIN NO PROBLEM HERE IS THERE !!! COME ON FAR TO MUCH NEGATIVEY ON HERE COME LIGHTEN UP ANY ENJOY THE RIDE ! Can i have a pint of whatever your drinking please ??!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityred exile Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 28 minutes ago, cityironman said: Can i have a pint of whatever your drinking please ??!!! CIDER WHAT ELSE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityironman Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 48 minutes ago, cityred exile said: CIDER WHAT ELSE ! Never realised you could get cider that was that strong!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curr Avon Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 14 hours ago, ciderbeans said: Because Rotherham, Blackburn, burton and Wigan are below us and no matter how bad we are, they will be worse And that my friends is PROGRESS. Good night and good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumRed Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 3 hours ago, cityred exile said: 2points above the line , but effectively 3 with our far superior goal difference, 4points out of next 2 matches shouldn't be a problem should it ? Or are we going to lose 6 on the spin at home / and 10 on the trot and get another in wanted record , NO COURSE WE AINT ! that leaves just 16 points from 51 available To get on to 47points AGAIN NO PROBLEM HERE IS THERE !!! COME ON FAR TO MUCH NEGATIVEY ON HERE COME LIGHTEN UP ANY ENJOY THE RIDE ! Holy shit, that's special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 The number of teams we have been overtaken by since our high water mark in October- and the gaps between us and those sides- frightening! A few examples: On end of week of 2nd October 2016 we were- and ok a few may have overtaken us anyway depth of squad, budget etc but: TEN points ahead of Villa TEN ahead of Derby And most shamefully TWELVE ahead of Cardiff. You might well argue Derby and Villa would have overtaken us but 11 games was a quarter of the season almost so our decline has been stunning That table- our last game v Forest, well maybe we did start better than anticipated and maybe several teams had a slow start, but still!! Quote As It Stood Team P GD Pts 1 Huddersfield 11 6 25 2 Norwich 11 6 23 3 Newcastle 11 12 22 4 Brighton 11 7 21 5 Bristol City 11 7 20 6 Birmingham 11 5 20 7 Brentford 11 9 18 8 Reading 11 -3 18 9 Sheff Wed 11 -1 17 10 Barnsley 11 5 16 11 Leeds 11 -1 16 12 Wolves 11 1 15 13 QPR 11 -3 15 14 Fulham 11 -3 14 15 Burton 11 0 13 16 Ipswich 11 -1 13 17 Preston 11 -2 13 18 Nottm Forest 11 -3 12 19 Aston Villa 11 -2 10 20 Derby 11 -4 10 21 Wigan 11 -2 9 22 Blackburn 11 -8 8 23 Cardiff 11 -11 8 24 Rotherham 11 -14 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDLEE Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 A few weeks ago we could have argued that 8 or 9 teams were worse than us. Unfortunately 4 of them have beaten us on this run and in the process jumped above us. I keep hearing people say that we're only losing by the odd goal, but apart from Reading, we've not played anyone at the top. And they managed to score 3 in under 20 minutes. Worrying times! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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