Don't know what you're doing...

[JamesBCFC]

Just now, Barry Sheene said:

Feel free to debate anytime you like.

it's just a little bit easier if you have actually seen the match for me to debate with you

 

I'm not debating the overall match though am I?

I'm debating the actions of pillocks who decided to deride a very sensible decision (going by the comments of many on here about the performances of Tammy and Tomlin, and the fact both sounded very poor from the radio commentary).

 

My questions stand as a general question not specific to any team or individual game-

In what way is taking off under performing players a bad decision?

Would you rather get a win with a bad performance or lose with a good performance?

 

I know my answer to the second, and I've seen too many defeats with good performances this season.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

If it was just LT 29 I'd agree with you

Was always likely to end in tears and I certainly wouldn't judge LJs man management on how LT behaves

However LJ knows more about LT than I do and made the decision to sign him

Unfortunately somebody like LT, if disgruntled can quickly spread discontent in dressing room

 

And what really concerns me is the number of players that LJ appears to have fallen out with , the strong rumours of discontent around large parts , at least , of the squad , the way LJ has outed players post match , his confusing selection policies ..... 

More importantly I think it concerns the players more

Oh I have concerns too; where the hell is Magnusson I desperately want to know what is going on there. 

My point is about professionalism. There are 2 at a push 3 players I see as totally unprofessional and out there for themselves. I will call out two - GON and LT. Of the rest I see players who are still working hard, maybe they are discontented but still showing utmost professionalism. 

For me GON and LT wouldn't play any part in the season going forward and I'd look to release them from our squad asap - albeit for LT I'd be demanding a fee. 

LT performance today for instance. He may think damages a manager's position. I disagree. He's deflecting blame from LJ and attracting it to himself. The fact that he played so well v Sheff W and so (I don't have the word to describe him) today... there may be the manager's neck in the guillotine but so is his and it's his blade I'm dropping first. 

[Barry Sheene]

1 minute ago, JamesBCFC said:

I'm not debating the overall match though am I?

I'm debating the actions of pillocks who decided to deride a very sensible decision (going by the comments of many on here about the performances of Tammy and Tomlin, and the fact both sounded very poor from the radio commentary).

 

My questions stand as a general question not specific to any team or individual game-

In what way is taking off under performing players a bad decision?

Would you rather get a win with a bad performance or lose with a good performance?

 

I know my answer to the second, and I've seen too many defeats with good performances this season.

How do you know the under performing players were underperforming if you were not there.?

[RumRed]

3 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

I'm not debating the overall match though am I?

I'm debating the actions of pillocks who decided to deride a very sensible decision (going by the comments of many on here about the performances of Tammy and Tomlin, and the fact both sounded very poor from the radio commentary).

 

My questions stand as a general question not specific to any team or individual game-

In what way is taking off under performing players a bad decision?

Would you rather get a win with a bad performance or lose with a good performance?

 

I know my answer to the second, and I've seen too many defeats with good performances this season.

Which teams have you been watching? 

[BobBobSuperBob]

5 minutes ago, 29AR said:

Oh I have concerns too; where the hell is Magnusson I desperately want to know what is going on there. 

My point is about professionalism. There are 2 at a push 3 players I see as totally unprofessional and out there for themselves. I will call out two - GON and LT. Of the rest I see players who are still working hard, maybe they are discontented but still showing utmost professionalism. 

For me GON and LT wouldn't play any part in the season going forward and I'd look to release them from our squad asap - albeit for LT I'd be demanding a fee. 

LT performance today for instance. He may think damages a manager's position. I disagree. He's deflecting blame from LJ and attracting it to himself. The fact that he played so well v Sheff W and so (I don't have the word to describe him) today... there may be the manager's neck in the guillotine but as is his and it's his blade I'm dropping first. 

Good Post

Think there are quite a few unhappy but I agree that few show it thankfully in the way LT does

People were embarrassingly leaping on and bigging up his interview - but it was and is a charade

I thought Sheffield Weds might be a new start for him  

[MelksRed]

1 hour ago, 29AR said:

Hard to articulate the point without sounding superfan happy clapper, that I am not. LJ's sacking I have advocated. 

But...

To those  singing you don't know what you're doing: Shame on you.

A striker 4 weeks in to the country; a striker coming on to make his debut after crossing the divide and all that brings and that's your immediate reaction. Pathetic.  Terrible support nil encouragement and a rank atmosphere to enter in to.

Even as someone who would relieve LJ of his duties it made my bloody afternoon that the theee brought on, unless my eyes deceived me, each contributed to the phase of play we scored from. 

And reading this forum for a week most suggested it be 2 up front and the two best suited to eachother would be Taylor and Djuric. What's even funnier is the 2 attackers replaced did nothing. The three that came on caused problems: one scored and one assisted in less time than those replaced had on the field  

 

I'm sure he won't give two hoots when his  multi-thousand pound salary goes in on pay day.

People have a right to boo if they wish (I didn't myself but....hey....some people thought it pertinent.... So what?)

[JamesBCFC]

3 minutes ago, Barry Sheene said:

How do you know the under performing players were underperforming if you were not there.?

I quite clearly stated in that posted that was based one several comments on here and also the radio commentary.

 

I also asked it as a general question- not pertinent to a single match, as far as I am aware I do not need to attend a game to ask a hypothetical question or have my rights to asking hypothetical questions been stripped along with my right to an opinion?

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Good Post

Think there are quite a few unhappy but I agree that few show it thankfully in the way LT does

People were embarrassingly leaping on and bigging up his interview - but it was and is a charade

I thought Sheffield Weds might be a new start for him  

Me too 

Today's game was the straw on the camel's back though.

That was a game we couldn't afford passengers and was must win and he did not give a toss - unlike Tammy who was poor but tried and tried and tried.

LT showed so much contempt towards the club in that performance, for me his card is marked. I'd be trying harder to flog him than Rovers did find another club for Taylor, regardless of what may come through the season or what change in manager.

Manager makes no difference to him; even the brightest and hottest English managerial prospect (Howe of course, LJ is second )  didn't harness his respect. 

Said it when we got him on loan thought he was a gobshite. Got convinced last year. I've done a complete u-turn. He's not someone I want representing this club. 

[bristolborn_and_red]

1 hour ago, JamesBCFC said:

Surely if someone who is supposed to create or score goal isn't having an impact on the game, then subbing them is a sensible choice is it not?

This isn't hindsight, this is a post rightly criticising the fans who, instead of encouraging the players coming on, created a toxic atmosphere when a sensible decision was made.

Sorry but that was the last throw of the dice by Johnson. It worked. He got lucky. We are only postponing the inevitable.

[Gert Mare]

20 minutes ago, Engvall's Splinter said:

Johnson has got out of jail. Blokes out of his depth. 

The support today couldn't be knocked. Those rightly had a pop at Johnson, not the players. 

The decision to start one up top against a dire Rotherham side was shocking. 

Today gives no optimism or hope we can get out of the mess we've been put in. The football was dire, no direction, the players looked confused in the first half. Seemed we've even brought Hegelar down to our standard!! 

Fully understand the booing of Johnsons decisions. Tammy, left isolated all game and our leading goal scorer is taken off in a relegation 6 pointer. Did you expect a rapturous applause. 

Key points are;

We should've started with two up ****ing front!!!! 

 

Spot on. Absolutely spot on.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, MelksRed said:

I'm sure he won't give two hoots when his  multi-thousand pound salary goes in on pay day.

People have a right to boo if they wish (I didn't myself but....hey....some people thought it pertinent.... So what?)

I'm not disagreeing. What I'm disagreeing with is was that really how we welcome a new home debut from a guy who got death threats over a move here and a guy who upped sticks and moved country to come here  

There's a time to complain. That was not it. I can see it was a prompt, but the desire to welcome MT and encourage MD should have been the priority, for any 'supporter'. 

[Barry Sheene]

3 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

I quite clearly stated in that posted that was based one several comments on here and also the radio commentary.

 

I also asked it as a general question- not pertinent to a single match, as far as I am aware I do not need to attend a game to ask a hypothetical question or have my rights to asking hypothetical questions been stripped along with my right to an opinion?

Look James I have read some of your posts and in fairness you are a decent posters.

Maybe we can exchange opinions from the Burton match?

[RedLionLad]

1 hour ago, Up The City! said:

Got to say around me in the SS I never heard any of this? Everyone was positive.

Try sitting in W17. One guy nearly burst a blood vessel.

[MelksRed]

2 minutes ago, 29AR said:

I'm not disagreeing. What I'm disagreeing with is was that really how we welcome a new home debut from a guy who got death threats over a move here and a guy who upped sticks and moved country to come here  

There's a time to complain. That was not it. I can see it was a prompt, but the desire to welcome MT and encourage MD should have been the priority, for any 'supporter'. 

I agree that the timing could have been chosen better but sometimes I guess it just gets to people. I respect the rights of those who booed to do so..... I disagree with them (just like like you) but can appreciate why they feel the way they do.

Thought Taylor was sharp today.....needs to get with the tempo....he's not going to get the same time on the ball in the championship. Duric.....good reactions to secure the goal.....liked the goal alot....as did the 17,500 fans who stopped booing and started cheering. I'm not a happy clapper. Johnson has his faults.........

[Full nelson]

2 hours ago, iamalagerdrinker said:

Can we revive this post after the next 4 games? 

Of course we can't, we've turned the corner don't you know 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Full nelson said:

Of course we can't 

I'll do it. I'll even set a calendar reminder if you like: I don't start topics it'll be like candy from a baby to find. 

Not sure what will be achieved however. We can lose 10-0 each of the next four; welcoming a debutant - one who got threats of violence for coming here - and welcoming a relatively new starter, in lieu of a player on an off-day and a player mugging us off, in that manner is never going to be acceptable imo. 

[jtc1]

Picked the same 11 most of people would have picked but we were awful for some reason, love him or hate him he was brave to make 3 subs with 30 mins to go and it worked as we were more attacking, LJ well done today for doing what YOU thought was right to do. 3PTS !!!

[054123]

2 hours ago, 29AR said:

Hard to articulate the point without sounding superfan happy clapper, that I am not. LJ's sacking I have advocated. 

But...

To those  singing you don't know what you're doing: Shame on you.

A striker 4 weeks in to the country; a striker coming on to make his debut after crossing the divide and all that brings and that's your immediate reaction. Pathetic.  Terrible support nil encouragement and a rank atmosphere to enter in to.

Even as someone who would relieve LJ of his duties it made my bloody afternoon that the theee brought on, unless my eyes deceived me, each contributed to the phase of play we scored from. 

And reading this forum for a week most suggested it be 2 up front and the two best suited to eachother would be Taylor and Djuric. What's even funnier is the 2 attackers replaced did nothing. The three that came on caused problems: one scored and one assisted in less time than those replaced had on the field  

 

Winner! Keep on playing as we sink.

Shame on you. Why not if we're throwing shame around. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, 054123 said:

Winner! Keep on playing as we sink.

Shame on you. Why not if we're throwing shame around. 

Sorry, I have missed your point. 

There are times I wonder if LJ knows what he's doing, I would have sacked him weeks back... but what I will not condone or excuse is welcoming a new signing and a relatively new player in that manner. First and foremost in anyone's mind should have been clapping and encouraging the new players. The time to show discontent towards LJ was not that 60s break in play. Afterwards, crack on. Sing Rowett's name, sing whatever. 

I have none and will take no shame in placing welcoming and encouraging new players above anything else. I have plenty of opportunities to show discontent towards our management, but that distasteful - like farting at a funeral. 

[Red Exile]

A lot of huff and puff in this thread about nothing...the chants and booing were obviously directed at Johnson, not the subs who all got applause when they were announced.

Noticeable at the end that the level of applause from the fans still in the ground rose considerably when LJ got off the pitch and left it to the players. Johnson's on borrowed time, out of his depth and got lucky with his complete tearing up of a strategic approach he'd presumably spent days working on.

Three vital points though. Crowd support for the players was excellent throughout.

[054123]

1 minute ago, 29AR said:

Sorry, I have missed your point. 

There are times I wonder if LJ knows what he's doing, I would have sacked him weeks back... but what I will not condone or excuse is welcoming a new signing and a relatively new player in that manner. First and foremost in anyone's mind should have been clapping and encouraging the new players. The time to show discontent towards LJ was not that 60s break in play. Afterwards, crack on. Sing Rowett's name, sing whatever. 

I have none and will take no shame in placing welcoming and encouraging new players above anything else. I have plenty of opportunities to show discontent towards our management, but that distasteful - like farting at a funeral. 

Just bored of obvious posts like this. Two woeful performances today and unless things change, 2 relegated teams.

There seems little to discuss.  Full credit to the crowd for somehow putting up with the last 2 months and still getting behind the team.

[Meh]

2 hours ago, Red Army 75 said:

Hindsight is a wonderful thing 

F all to do with hindsight. LJ is paid to make tough calls - yes they worked out right but even if they did not - the reaction was pathetic.

I feel sorry for all our new recruits - they must wonder what they have walked in to with our fickle fan base - gas  fans are right - we are terrible "supporters" (loose term)

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, 054123 said:

Just bored of obvious posts like this. Two woeful performances today and unless things change, 2 relegated teams.

There seems little to discuss.  Full credit to the crowd for somehow putting up with the last 2 months and still getting behind the team.

Boring obvious post... irony. Full credit to the crowd in the last 2 months indeed. Nil credit to anyone who sung at that point. You've just pissed it all against the wall. 

[Dullmoan Tone]

5 minutes ago, Neo said:

F all to do with hindsight. LJ is paid to make tough calls - yes they worked out right but even if they did not - the reaction was pathetic.

I feel sorry for all our new recruits - they must wonder what they have walked in to with our fickle fan base - gas  fans are right - we are terrible "supporters" (loose term)

It has everything to do with hindsight - taking off one of the top scorers in the Championship, when you are chasing a game, who has just had a header saved, is nothing short of moronic. If the goal  hadn't have come, would you have posted this defending the substitutions?

[Portland Bill]

2 hours ago, arrytheb said:

Was embarrassing that some decided they know better and make a judgement like that. Tammy was poor today, which can happen, and imo was right to be taken off. 

Not surprising he was "crap today", the poor lad must think he's in solitary confinement at times! 

 

[Meh]

1 minute ago, Dullmoan Tone said:

It has everything to do with hindsight - taking off one of the top scorers in the Championship, when you are chasing a game, who has just had a header saved, is nothing short of moronic. If the goal  hadn't have come, would you have posted this defending the substitutions?

Yes. A manager is paid to take gambles and make tough calls - he obviously felt pace of Paterson and Taylor combined with the ability to knock headers down from Djuric was the only way we were going to get a result - brave, desperate, educated - I don't know. 

BUT - the pressure so called fans put on the whole team with that stupid reaction was disgusting and made me feel ashamed - ******* fuming !!

So yes - irrespective of result, LJ here or gone I would have said the same - total shit fans is what we have - I wish they would all F off and not come back however many hundreds there was.

And as for the **** with the O'Driscoll banner right near the dugout - get a life FFS !!

[Red Army 75]

20 minutes ago, Neo said:

F all to do with hindsight. LJ is paid to make tough calls - yes they worked out right but even if they did not - the reaction was pathetic.

I feel sorry for all our new recruits - they must wonder what they have walked in to with our fickle fan base - gas  fans are right - we are terrible "supporters" (loose term)

Get a grip . Stop over reacting. A bit of criticism is part of life. Fool 

[Red Exile]

2 minutes ago, Neo said:

Yes. A manager is paid to take gambles and make tough calls - he obviously felt pace of Paterson and Taylor combined with the ability to knock headers down from Djuric was the only way we were going to get a result - brave, desperate, educated - I don't know. 

BUT - the pressure so called fans put on the whole team with that stupid reaction was disgusting and made me feel ashamed - ******* fuming !!

So yes - irrespective of result, LJ here or gone I would have said the same - total shit fans is what we have - I wish they would all F off and not come back however many hundreds there was.

And as for the **** with the O'Driscoll banner right near the dugout - get a life FFS !!

Seriously, were we at the same match?....for anyone not there I can assure them that the supporters sang throughout, did their very best to lift a side bereft of shape and zest in the first half, in which we barely mustered an attack. And these are people who turn up week in week out to watch uninspiring, depressing, defeat after defeat...the two bursts of booing and chanting were obviously aimed at LJ, who is responsible for the shambles...didn't you hear the cheers that greeted each of the subs as they were announced?

Johnson has thus far largely dodged any abuse...barely a squeak...which makes him a very lucky chap.

[Engvall's Splinter]

24 minutes ago, Neo said:

F all to do with hindsight. LJ is paid to make tough calls - yes they worked out right but even if they did not - the reaction was pathetic.

I feel sorry for all our new recruits - they must wonder what they have walked in to with our fickle fan base - gas  fans are right - we are terrible "supporters" (loose term)

Fickle? We've been on the poorest run in our history yet still average crowds over 18k. 

Not as much as a murmur in front of the players from the fans until today. 

Utter trollop. 

[Dullmoan Tone]

8 minutes ago, Neo said:

Yes. A manager is paid to take gambles and make tough calls - he obviously felt pace of Paterson and Taylor combined with the ability to knock headers down from Djuric was the only way we were going to get a result - brave, desperate, educated - I don't know. 

BUT - the pressure so called fans put on the whole team with that stupid reaction was disgusting and made me feel ashamed - ******* fuming !!

So yes - irrespective of result, LJ here or gone I would have said the same - total shit fans is what we have - I wish they would all F off and not come back however many hundreds there was.

And as for the **** with the O'Driscoll banner right near the dugout - get a life FFS !!

i can't believe that (without the hindsight of a win) someone who cares enough to post nearly 1000 posts, would justify subbing Abraham, who had done nothing wrong - were you not thinking, Marlon Pack has created nothing at the time for Abraham? You should be much more ashamed at the fans singing Jonson's name - on today's evidence, he is cremating our chances of survival