Tomlins poor performance due entirely to pack

[Robbored]

Tomlins poor performance yesterday was down one person - Tomlin himself and I'm sure he'd be the first to admit it.

I watched him fairly closely and the runs, flicks and quick feet just weren't coming off like they did against Wednesday. Not his day you could say and he was getting frustrated with himself. That's partly why LJ subbed him. He could see that LT just wasn't on his game.

[iamalagerdrinker]

Player of the match according to the sun with an 8

[tinman85]

If we are to progress players like Pack need to be moved on.  Now we have Hegeler we need a Ben Watson type proven Prem quality player in the middle who can control the game and drive us forward. 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

Wasn't aimed at you mate...but I don't see booing and the constant threads slagging off LJ as positive in supporting the club.

SL has made his decision...he's staying. We can make constructive criticism about players and LJ, but some of the stuff on here and at the ground is hardly supporting the club.

Whether fans think he's hopeless or players hopeless...what good does booing do?

I think Little is way out of his depth...but yesterday I was constantly encouraging him. That's the difference... I don't want him in my team...but he is, so I'll support him and encourage him.

In fact I'd love him to prove me wrong and become better...as with everyone at the club.

Let's be honest LJ has got lucky in the last 2 matches and probably it was about time that we were due a little luck, but IMO it is still papering over the cracks and part of the trouble is he sometimes doesn't help himself, I think that he was far too negative in his team selection yesterday against a team well adrift at the bottom of league and with a host of injuries. Abraham cannot play as a loan striker especially with our midfield who although better is still not good enough at championship level.

Although his substitutions eventually worked and I applaud the guts he showed with his substitutions, the substitution of Tomlin was always never going to go down well with sections of the crowd but the substitution of Abraham was a huge gamble and probably the one that fans objected to most, Abraham even when not at his best has often managed to find a goal for us and I think especially yesterday a busy player like Taylor alongside him might have produced better results. This IMO didn't need hindsight, they are bottom of the league and injury ravaged FFS.

I think the real problem that yesterday threw up was with the next 4 incredibly difficult away games coming up the crowd were looking for some hope of at least a powerful performance against the one side that on paper that appear worse than we are and they never got it and I believe they expected a more attacking line up and let's be honest once more how many fans can actually at this moment in time honestly say that we can even take 1 point from the next 4 games? and then what do we do with 13 games to save our season?.

I agree with your assessment of Matthews and the younger signings (from another thread) and situations like Matthews can happen but it has to be said LJ and MA took their eye off of the ball with signings for the here and now and then embarked on a hastily convened panic buying spree.

I dearly hope that we can turn things around but I don't think that LJ is the right person for that mission, that is my opinion.

PS:- "I am just an ordinary guy frustrated at not getting a knighthood".

 

[spudski]

13 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Let's be honest LJ has got lucky in the last 2 matches and probably it was about time that we were due a little luck, but IMO it is still papering over the cracks and part of the trouble is he sometimes doesn't help himself, I think that he was far too negative in his team selection yesterday against a team well adrift at the bottom of league and with a host of injuries. Abraham cannot play as a loan striker especially with our midfield who although better is still not good enough at championship level.

Although his substitutions eventually worked and I applaud the guts he showed with his substitutions, the substitution of Tomlin was always never going to go down well with sections of the crowd but the substitution of Abraham was a huge gamble and probably the one that fans objected to most, Abraham even when not at his best has often managed to find a goal for us and I think especially yesterday a busy player like Taylor alongside him might have produced better results. This IMO didn't need hindsight, they are bottom of the league and injury ravaged FFS.

I think the real problem that yesterday threw up was with the next 4 incredibly difficult away games coming up the crowd were looking for some hope of at least a powerful performance against the one side that on paper that appear worse than we are and they never got it and I believe they expected a more attacking line up and let's be honest once more how many fans can actually at this moment in time honestly say that we can even take 1 point from the next 4 games? and then what do we do with 13 games to save our season?.

I agree with your assessment of Matthews and the younger signings (from another thread) and situations like Matthews can happen but it has to be said LJ and MA took their eye off of the ball with signings for the here and now and then embarked on a hastily convened panic buying spree.

I dearly hope that we can turn things around but I don't think that LJ is the right person for that mission, that is my opinion.

It's horses for courses mate. Tammy is very one dimensional...hangs off the last shoulder of the defender. Never comes for a ball. Very static...but has an eye for a goal in the box.

Tomlin is a problem, as you just don't know what's going to turn up.

Yesterday was a case in mind.

With Cotterhill in the team, his runs and crosses into the box, needed movement and height. Duric and Taylor and Patterson gave that. They should have been playing from the start imo.

However...people wanted a settled formation and not more changes. You can't win.

Both Tammy and Tomlin were poor...even Hegeler looked like he had lead in his boots. The team apart from Taylor and Patterson looked lethargic and knackered tbh.

Tammy needs a rest. Tomlin can do one as far as i'm concerned. He say's he sets himself high standards...Christ, he doesn't even get to average standards most games. Stop ******* flicking the ball, hanging onto it for far too long, coming back to the defence to pick the ball up, and when you pass...don't just stand there and admire it, ******* run again for the next move. Sorry he's a lazy git that thinks he's better than he is...hence playing for us.

Can see him like Jet in League 1 soon.

[Jerseybean]

As this thread at least started by considering LT here are my thoughts.

Tomlin is certainly a maverick / marmite player. I agree with spudski in wishing we'd never brought him. The excitement and hype among many fans, that surrounded the lead up to him signing, was based on his contribution while on loan. However, this season he has been, at best, highly inconsistent. As with many maverick-types his attitude, ego and personality are also frequently questioned. In the case of LT his weight / fitness are also issues.

Football is not about individuals it's about a squad. IMO trying to accommodate LT causes us problems. Whatever happens I think he should be moved on at the end of this season.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

2 minutes ago, spudski said:

It's horses for courses mate. Tammy is very one dimensional...hangs off the last shoulder of the defender. Never comes for a ball. Very static...but has an eye for a goal in the box.

Tomlin is a problem, as you just don't know what's going to turn up.

Yesterday was a case in mind.

With Cotterhill in the team, his runs and crosses into the box, needed movement and height. Duric and Taylor and Patterson gave that. They should have been playing from the start imo.

However...people wanted a settled formation and not more changes. You can't win.

Both Tammy and Tomlin were poor...even Hegeler looked like he had lead in his boots. The team apart from Taylor and Patterson looked lethargic and knackered tbh.

Tammy needs a rest. Tomlin can do one as far as i'm concerned. He say's he sets himself high standards...Christ, he doesn't even get to average standards most games. Stop ******* flicking the ball, hanging onto it for far too long, coming back to the defence to pick the ball up, and when you pass...don't just stand there and admire it, ******* run again for the next move. Sorry he's a lazy git that thinks he's better than he is...hence playing for us.

Can see him like Jet in League 1 soon.

I agree with every single word of that especially the highlighted portion and be honest with Rotherham bottom of the league and with the amount of injuries that they had, no hindsight was needed, it was yet another glaring mistake by LJ like starting Tomlin wide right against Wednesday and especially with our next 4 games,  we do not need a mistake prone manager to compliment our mistake prone players, LJ needs to properly step up to the plate IMO. 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

7 minutes ago, Jerseybean said:

As this thread at least started by considering LT here are my thoughts.

Tomlin is certainly a maverick / marmite player. I agree with spudski in wishing we'd never brought him. The excitement and hype among many fans, that surrounded the lead up to him signing, was based on his contribution while on loan. However, this season he has been, at best, highly inconsistent. As with many maverick-types his attitude, ego and personality are also frequently questioned. In the case of LT his weight / fitness are also issues.

Football is not about individuals it's about a squad. IMO trying to accommodate LT causes us problems. Whatever happens I think he should be moved on at the end of this season.

Let's be honest players in order for players like Tomlin, JET and Dziekanowski to flourish and entertain the fans with their undoubted skills, they need to be playing in teams that are strong, organised and successful and can operate in that manner with effectively 10 men for large periods of a game and we have very rarely in our history been able to boast those qualities in our teams.

[Robbored]

54 minutes ago, iamalagerdrinker said:

Player of the match according to the sun with an 8

They didn't have a reporter there then....

[Gillies Downs Leeds]

The problem i have with Tomlin is, we all like to be entertained, but what drives me mad is when he does one of his fancy flicks and then stands there and admires it. The top players do the flick and then are immediately on the move to join the attack. Tomlin just stands still and accepts the adulation from the crowd. 

[redfieldred]

5 hours ago, chinapig said:

I think there was just a touch of irony in the original post, don't you?

Sussed! 

[JoeAman08]

4 hours ago, spudski said:

You need to look deeper for the answers mate.

Matthews was going to be our number 1 RB. He's on decent wages...and been awful. The three you mention have all been signed for the near future. LJ has even said that. Elstrand was seen as the main CB over Magners. Engval was seen as in between U23's and first team...and Moore for the near future.

I'm not defending LJ here...but that is what we did. We spent millions for the near future. Instead of ££££££ millions.

I don't think LJ is the answer...I also don't see him as eaxtly the main problem. It's a culmination of things.

I sat there yesterday and hated it. It was the worst game of football I've witnessed in years. Devoid of anything. Both teams looked L2 standard. I completely understood the fans frustration. Having slept on it...it is what it is.

We either support the team and manager or all behave like spoilt brats and throw out our dummies.

I laughed out loud at the supporters who booed Tammy and Tomlin being taken off yesterday. Both were bloody awful...beyond pathetic. Both deserved to be hooked. How fans couldn't see that is beyond me. Just because they are our two best players on paper...well they weren't yesterday...they were our worst. LJ for all his problems, made the right call.

Some fans regardless of what they think about him, should be man enough to acknowledge that he got that decision right.

He ain't perfect...but we are stuck with him. So we can either make AG and this place toxic...or get behind the Clubs decision to keep him. Support or hate...

Spot on but I don't think the boos were for Tomlin going off but for Tammy. I think it is understandable as he's usually our only hope of scoring. We aren't used to having quality striking options off the bench. Seeing Matty T now I don't think if would've been the same reception but it's over now. 

But yes spot on in regards to the signings. People need to forget price tags on the younger lads. They weren't meant for this season and as I said in another thread we had a strong championship core. There was significant evidence that this squad could be at least mid table going off last seasons form from Feb to may. Many of the big money players haven't performed for whatever reasons. Tomlin, GON and Matthews haven't been good enough or fit enough. Of course we are struggling when our 3 best players on paper to start the season are struggling. Little is meant to be back up. Think Flint could soon be fourth choice CB. We are progressing the squad but a few have really let us down so far and it's why we are where we are. I'm sure tactics and things like that have attributed to this but these players need to take a look at themselves as well. 

[chinapig]

1 hour ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Let's be honest players in order for players like Tomlin, JET and Dziekanowski to flourish and entertain the fans with their undoubted skills, they need to be playing in teams that are strong, organised and successful and can operate in that manner with effectively 10 men for large periods of a game and we have very rarely in our history been able to boast those qualities in our teams.

It helps if those sorts of players behave like professional athletes and keep themselves fit so as to maximise their talents as well.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

20 minutes ago, chinapig said:

It helps if those sorts of players behave like professional athletes and keep themselves fit so as to maximise their talents as well.

indeed it does and sadly none mentioned fully fulfilled that particular requirement.

[spudski]

46 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Spot on but I don't think the boos were for Tomlin going off but for Tammy. I think it is understandable as he's usually our only hope of scoring. We aren't used to having quality striking options off the bench. Seeing Matty T now I don't think if would've been the same reception but it's over now. 

But yes spot on in regards to the signings. People need to forget price tags on the younger lads. They weren't meant for this season and as I said in another thread we had a strong championship core. There was significant evidence that this squad could be at least mid table going off last seasons form from Feb to may. Many of the big money players haven't performed for whatever reasons. Tomlin, GON and Matthews haven't been good enough or fit enough. Of course we are struggling when our 3 best players on paper to start the season are struggling. Little is meant to be back up. Think Flint could soon be fourth choice CB. We are progressing the squad but a few have really let us down so far and it's why we are where we are. I'm sure tactics and things like that have attributed to this but these players need to take a look at themselves as well. 

Concur completely fella...

[chinapig]

14 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

indeed it does and sadly none mentioned fully fulfilled that particular requirement.

As you say, and you can add David Noble to the list. It infuriates me when gifted players waste such great talent.

Of a different order of course but contrast with Messi's sheer hard work on the field or Ronaldo's obsession with fitness. Genius = 99% perspiration and all that.

[Davefevs]

I said ages ago that Tammy and Tomlin were a problem, but in different ways.

Tammy becoming undroppable:

1. Because of his goals

2. Lack of realist competition from Wilbs and Engvall, especially when playing one up top.

In fairness to the lad, he's been excellent, but he's just 19, and this us a demanding league, where CBs ain't afraid to bully you.  Both Loovens and Lees were very physical on Tuesday.  I like `Tammy's attitude, the smile on his face, but I think he needs a rest every now and again. The arrival of Djuric and now Taylor allows that.  Tammy is learning the game, and I doubt he's played up top on his own much (if at all) before coming here.  He's given it a darn good go.  Still believe he'll get 25+ this season, which would be remarkable.

Tammy is the 'good problem'.

Early season it seemed that Tomlin was undroppable too, but is increasingly becoming the 'bad problem':

1. Big money signing

2. Loved by the fans (not really relevant)

3. Every team needs a maverick, right?

Now I'm not gonna be hypocritical, because on his day he is a fantastic player, but we've seen this less and less.  Yesterday I think he was showing the effects of Tuesday and his illness, but sometimes even the gifted player has to play for the team, doing the shuttles, the hard yards, keeping it simple etc when either they themselves aren't playing well, or the team are struggling in a game.  I don't think he's prepared to do that.  Think it's all on his terms.  I don't think he didn't try yesterday, but I don't think he played for the team either.  

He has become droppable and I see him featuring less and less as the season drags on.  I won't slag him off because I've no idea about Tomlin the person (bar a 5 minute chat at Charlton Farm). 

Bit of a shame really, but will be amazed if he's here at the start of next season.  

We now have options in the central forward positions, and I think that might be telling.

[wheatus59]

14 hours ago, redfieldred said:

I know it's a long shot but I think  we can fully blame tomlins terrible performance on Marlin pack because this fits my football philosophy. Sideways and keep possession bad. run into 8 defenders and lose the ball good 

As per usual a small amount of people on here want to bash Pack , its difficult to go forward when no one is making runs or moving into space .

[leadman]

when were doing shite, packs first movement when he gets the ball is to turn towards his defenders.

when were doing good this is not the case.

I don't think he should be in the team at the moment.

[chinapig]

12 minutes ago, wheatus59 said:

As per usual a small amount of people on here want to bash Pack , its difficult to go forward when no one is making runs or moving into space .

See post 44.

[BobBobSuperBob]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I said ages ago that Tammy and Tomlin were a problem, but in different ways.

Tammy becoming undroppable:

1. Because of his goals

2. Lack of realist competition from Wilbs and Engvall, especially when playing one up top.

In fairness to the lad, he's been excellent, but he's just 19, and this us a demanding league, where CBs ain't afraid to bully you.  Both Loovens and Lees were very physical on Tuesday.  I like `Tammy's attitude, the smile on his face, but I think he needs a rest every now and again. The arrival of Djuric and now Taylor allows that.  Tammy is learning the game, and I doubt he's played up top on his own much (if at all) before coming here.  He's given it a darn good go.  Still believe he'll get 25+ this season, which would be remarkable.

Tammy is the 'good problem'.

Early season it seemed that Tomlin was undroppable too, but is increasingly becoming the 'bad problem':

1. Big money signing

2. Loved by the fans (not really relevant)

3. Every team needs a maverick, right?

Now I'm not gonna be hypocritical, because on his day he is a fantastic player, but we've seen this less and less.  Yesterday I think he was showing the effects of Tuesday and his illness, but sometimes even the gifted player has to play for the team, doing the shuttles, the hard yards, keeping it simple etc when either they themselves aren't playing well, or the team are struggling in a game.  I don't think he's prepared to do that.  Think it's all on his terms.  I don't think he didn't try yesterday, but I don't think he played for the team either.  

He has become droppable and I see him featuring less and less as the season drags on.  I won't slag him off because I've no idea about Tomlin the person (bar a 5 minute chat at Charlton Farm). 

Bit of a shame really, but will be amazed if he's here at the start of next season.  

We now have options in the central forward positions, and I think that might be telling.

Great post Dave - some v good points 

[Frenchay Red]

Tammy is undroppable for any length of time because of the loan terms I have been told.

80% playing required apparently, though my "inhouse" source was unable to clarify if this was appearances, starts or playing time.

Anyone know any more details?

 

[Portland Bill]

10 hours ago, spudski said:

Wasn't aimed at you mate...but I don't see booing and the constant threads slagging off LJ as positive in supporting the club.

SL has made his decision...he's staying. We can make constructive criticism about players and LJ, but some of the stuff on here and at the ground is hardly supporting the club.

Whether fans think he's hopeless or players hopeless...what good does booing do?

I think Little is way out of his depth...but yesterday I was constantly encouraging him. That's the difference... I don't want him in my team...but he is, so I'll support him and encourage him.

In fact I'd love him to prove me wrong and become better...as with everyone at the club.

SL told everyone that SC was the man who will take us forward!, then sacked him. Results and league position will determine whether LJ gets sacked, the next month will decide his fate. 

SL is giving LJ every chance to turn this around, but it isn't blind loyalty, the club matters 100% more than LJ.

A decent February will ( 5 points??) probably keep LJ in a job. 3-4 defeats and I don't see him being here in March. 

[Red-Robbo]

Just now, Portland Bill said:

SL told everyone that SC was the man who will take us forward!, then sacked him. Results and league position will determine whether LJ gets sacked, the next month will decide his fate. 

SL is giving LJ every chance to turn this around, but it isn't blind loyalty, the club matters 100% more than LJ.

A decent February will ( 5 points??) probably keep LJ in a job. 3-4 defeats and I don't see him being here in March. 

I think if we get 4 points from those tough 4 away games Steve L (and myself) will be delighted.