the point of no return..

[samo II]

1 minute ago, Spoons said:

Knowing city we will lose against Fulham and beat Newcastle away! 

Fulham are better away than Newcastle are at home; if you take only away games, Fulham would be 6th, while when it comes to home only records, Newcastle are 7th.

So not beyond the realms of possiblity! 

[Garland-sweden]

1 hour ago, Dolman Block B said:

Let's be honest

A defeat v Fulham would be a disaster

Really can't see us getting anything against Newcastle or Villa

Perhaps just perhaps a new manager/coach will pump the squad up and see us get something from these two games 

Villa is on a bad run. Think we can beat them. But first we take Fulham.

[pongo88]

Unfortunately we've been here before, where LJ has reached the point of no return. Defeat after defeat has been the point of no return, but still he's here. I beleive that no matter how City play for the remainder of the season, and even if we go down, SL will stick with him. It will be a press conference at the end of the season where SL says he believes LJ is the man to get us promoted back into the Championship. LJ will then be sacked in November 

[JasonM88]

I honestly think a loss on Wednesday will see a horrible atmosphere towards Johnson towards the end of the match. That's when Lansdown tends to act. 

[Frenchay Red]

1 hour ago, The Original OTIB said:

Despair, Anger, Denial:

"In reality, we just lost too many games... turn some of those games into draws and we could still be in contention..."

Groundhog day.

And after Sean's sterling efforts , it was shortly followed by this.

 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, The Original OTIB said:

Burton & Wigan are in form:

http://www.soccerstats.com/formtable.asp?league=england2

Only a win will do.

We are 1 solitary point better off than this time last season.

And those above us?

[RT's Vaseline Tub]

4 hours ago, Robert the bruce said:

Where does the line get drawn for you??

Failure to win any of the next three matches,which is quite a possibility,will mean two wins in twenty-and will be my tipping point.

No excuses from SL or LJ,nowhere any longer to hide.nowhere to run.

After Derby away 1st half anything is possible now & a decent showing up at Leeds albeit without the luck - well at least hoping

[samo II]

17 minutes ago, bcfcfinker said:

And those above us?

Since Boxing Day those above us are as follows;

Burton - 12 points 

Wolves - 7

Forest - 10

Villa - 2

QPR - 14

Brentford - 8

Birmingham -  6

So, of the bottom eleven, we've taken the third lowest number of points behind Villa and Rotherham.

Totally feasible that if Villa's form continues they'll be down with us soon, but notable they were without their first choice striker during that period (Kodjia) who is back now, so might impact things.

Think that the way things are panning out, we're looking at 47-50 points being needed to stay in this league, meaning 15+ points from the next 15.

We've eight home and seven away left, and play seven of the current top ten, so home games against the likes of Fulham are going to be crucial.

[BCFC Rich]

Last 6 games:

 

GP W D L GF GA GD Pts 2.5+ 1 Huddersfield 6 5 0 1 12 7 +5 15 67% 2 Newcastle Utd 6 4 2 0 12 5 +7 14 67% 3 Reading 6 4 2 0 9 5 +4 14 50% 4 Sheffield Wed 6 4 1 1 11 6 +5 13 83% 5 Cardiff City 6 4 0 2 14 6 +8 12 50% 6 Norwich City 6 3 2 1 13 7 +6 11 67% 7 Brighton & Hove 6 3 2 1 12 8 +4 11 50% 8 Fulham 6 3 1 2 9 7 +2 10 33% 9 Leeds Utd 6 3 1 2 8 7 +1 10 50% 10 Preston 6 2 3 1 7 6 +1 9 33% 11 Burton Albion 6 3 0 3 7 10 -3 9 67% 12 Wigan Athletic 6 2 2 2 7 7 0 8 50% 13 Barnsley 6 2 2 2 5 6 -1 8 33% 14 Derby County 6 2 1 3 12 11 +1 7 67% 15 Ipswich Town 6 1 4 1 6 8 -2 7 33% 16 Wolverhampton 6 2 0 4 6 8 -2 6 50% 17 Nottm Forest 6 2 0 4 8 13 -5 6 67% 18 QP Rangers 6 1 2 3 9 9 0 5 67% 19 Bristol City 6 1 2 3 9 11 -2 5 67% 20 Blackburn 6 1 2 3 7 9 -2 5 50% 21 Brentford 6 1 1 4 12 14 -2 4 100% 22 Birmingham City 6 1 0 5 3 12 -9 3 50% 23 Aston Villa 6 0 1 5 4 12 -8 1 67% 24 Rotherham 6 0 1 5 3 13 -10 1 33%

[Star of a gunner]

2 hours ago, samo II said:

Fulham are better away than Newcastle are at home; if you take only away games, Fulham would be 6th, while when it comes to home only records, Newcastle are 7th.

So not beyond the realms of possiblity! 

We're crap home and away 

[samo II]

5 minutes ago, Star of a gunner said:

We're crap home and away 

Fair.

7 minutes ago, RichardEdd said:

Last 6 games:

GP W D L GF GA GD Pts 2.5+ 1 Huddersfield 6 5 0 1 12 7 +5 15 67% 2 Newcastle Utd 6 4 2 0 12 5 +7 14 67% 3 Reading 6 4 2 0 9 5 +4 14 50% 4 Sheffield Wed 6 4 1 1 11 6 +5 13 83% 5 Cardiff City 6 4 0 2 14 6 +8 12 50% 6 Norwich City 6 3 2 1 13 7 +6 11 67% 7 Brighton & Hove 6 3 2 1 12 8 +4 11 50% 8 Fulham 6 3 1 2 9 7 +2 10 33% 9 Leeds Utd 6 3 1 2 8 7 +1 10 50% 10 Preston 6 2 3 1 7 6 +1 9 33% 11 Burton Albion 6 3 0 3 7 10 -3 9 67% 12 Wigan Athletic 6 2 2 2 7 7 0 8 50% 13 Barnsley 6 2 2 2 5 6 -1 8 33% 14 Derby County 6 2 1 3 12 11 +1 7 67% 15 Ipswich Town 6 1 4 1 6 8 -2 7 33% 16 Wolverhampton 6 2 0 4 6 8 -2 6 50% 17 Nottm Forest 6 2 0 4 8 13 -5 6 67% 18 QP Rangers 6 1 2 3 9 9 0 5 67% 19 Bristol City 6 1 2 3 9 11 -2 5 67% 20 Blackburn 6 1 2 3 7 9 -2 5 50% 21 Brentford 6 1 1 4 12 14 -2 4 100% 22 Birmingham City 6 1 0 5 3 12 -9 3 50% 23 Aston Villa 6 0 1 5 4 12 -8 1 67% 24 Rotherham 6 0 1 5 3 13 -10 1 33%

Extend that out to ten and we're down to 23rd and Fulham are still 8th.

[Roger Red Hat]

2 hours ago, JasonM88 said:

I honestly think a loss on Wednesday will see a horrible atmosphere towards Johnson towards the end of the match. That's when Lansdown tends to act. 

You could well be right. Toxic is the word I'd use if it goes against us. I'm not an LJ hater, but I don't think he'll turn it round. I hope I'm wrong.

[AppyDAZE]

15 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said:

You could well be right. Toxic is the word I'd use if it goes against us. I'm not an LJ hater, but I don't think he'll turn it round. I hope I'm wrong.

:laugh: It was toxic after we'd won  so yeah

[Southstandoriginal]

13 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said:

You could well be right. Toxic is the word I'd use if it goes against us. I'm not an LJ hater, but I don't think he'll turn it round. I hope I'm wrong.

SteveL may well have it mind to stick with LJ come what may, but the reaction of the crowd if we lose on Wednesday is likely to force his hand. Make no mistake the crowd have been very patient up to now but LJs credit is at rock bottom.

[shelts]

5 hours ago, Robert the bruce said:

Where does the line get drawn for you??

Failure to win any of the next three matches,which is quite a possibility,will mean two wins in twenty-and will be my tipping point.

No excuses from SL or LJ,nowhere any longer to hide.nowhere to run.

For me it was after Forest. A few quid spent in the window and LJ is here at least till the end of the season. 

[BCFC Rich]

40 minutes ago, samo II said:

Fair.

Extend that out to ten and we're down to 23rd and Fulham are still 8th.

 

But the only real reason to do that is to make us look worse. Form is pretty much judged everywhere on the 4-6 games. If you want to extend it beyond that you could say extend it to 31 games and we are safe. Honestly, if we had sacked LJ after the Burnley cup game and got in whoever it is everyone thinks is going to transform our season and had the same results/performances I'm pretty sure people would be a lot more positive there have been obvious signs of improvement. I said in another thread but see where we are after Burton and if things continue to improve. If they do people should be a fair and acknowledge LJ is showing the signs that he can turn this around if we don't and our form dips again then its a sign for those of us who supported him that he might not be able to do that. 

[Slack Bladder]

5 hours ago, Dolman Block B said:

The crowd will destroy Lee Johnson Wednesday if we lose

Thats a certainty 

Then Steve Lansdown will have decision to make

A new man in for the Newcastle game "could" be a massive boost

 

 

 

Careful what you wish for, they might put Dean Holden in charge.

[Dolman Block B]

4 hours ago, Garland-sweden said:

Villa is on a bad run. Think we can beat them. But first we take Fulham.

Forget Villa.

Wednesday is huge.

Lose and trust me LJ will be hammered from all sides of the ground.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Fiale]

Just think, he could be learning all this at Barnsley, and if he proved a good manager over 1-2 seasons we could then have taken him knowing he can do the job, and giving him and us the best chance for success - instead he may well leave the club as a failure, which fans, MA, SL and LJ would not have wanted.... 

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, Fiale said:

Just think, he could be learning all this at Barnsley, and if he proved a good manager over 1-2 seasons we could then have taken him knowing he can do the job, and giving him and us the best chance for success - instead he may well leave the club as a failure, which fans, MA, SL and LJ would not have wanted.... 

Hope I'm not mis-interpreting your post, but we gambled on appointing him too early, a year or two too early.  Imagine him having survived his bad run last season, and having another at Barnsley.  I wonder what they'd be thinking?

Or maybe he keeps us up, and has another bad run with us next season?

Its not all about his bad-runs, I won't use the term "lost the dressing room', because I don't think this is the case, that usually means fights and arguments.  But I do think he has lost the belief...and until he builds the players confidence in his methods he's on for a mighty struggle.  You can hear it in his voice.

[Alan Dicks]

6 hours ago, The Original OTIB said:

Burton & Wigan are in form:

http://www.soccerstats.com/formtable.asp?league=england2

Only a win will do.

We are 1 solitary point better off than this time last season.

How many million did that point cost?

[samo II]

2 hours ago, RichardEdd said:

But the only real reason to do that is to make us look worse. Form is pretty much judged everywhere on the 4-6 games. If you want to extend it beyond that you could say extend it to 31 games and we are safe. Honestly, if we had sacked LJ after the Burnley cup game and got in whoever it is everyone thinks is going to transform our season and had the same results/performances I'm pretty sure people would be a lot more positive there have been obvious signs of improvement. I said in another thread but see where we are after Burton and if things continue to improve. If they do people should be a fair and acknowledge LJ is showing the signs that he can turn this around if we don't and our form dips again then its a sign for those of us who supported him that he might not be able to do that. 

Okay, RE the three bold sections;

- I am honest to God not trying to make him look bad; those are the raw numbers, and they look bad because... well they are really, really bad bad.  Measure it however you want; it isn't as if the alternative six match form significantly improves the picture - and three of the points come from a grindhouse of performance against a team all but relegated by the end of February, and one point comes from having lost a three goal lead, which is the second time in less than a month we've lost two goal leads inside the final third of games.  That considered, I think looking at 10 games is actually more informative than the last three, certainly without context.

- If, buts, maybes; you're saying that if a new gaffer got the results LJ did post-Burnley we'd be ecstatic?  Like I've said elsewhere; I'm a pragmatist, so if we'd taken five more points under a new manager I'd still be deadly concerned over our Championship status, because we'd still need 15+ points in 15 games.  But in all honestly, if the performances we'd put in were the same, then I'd be wildly concerned, as it would prove the lack of steel in the team was there in the players, not the way they were being motivated and set up.  Thing is; I'm not sure it is.  We were comeback kings earlier in the season, yet this looks to have deserted us.  Why?  Can't be sure.  But radical formation and personnel changes haven't made us more robust, and some of our standout performers have been sidelined, so the question is; where is the problem?  Unfortunately for our coaching staff, they are the one area we've not made radical alterations, hence the pressure on them.

- If after Burton we have no more points than we do now, or even only perhaps one or two, it is far too late.  I think it might be too late now, to be honest.  We need mid table form for the rest of the campaign, and last time we displayed anything like that (and, okay; looking at it over six games) was nearly three months ago.  Seen nothing to suggest we'll achieve that now, as much as I hope we do.  But all this "wait, wait, wait" has ****ed us before; really hope it hasn't again.

End of the day; since before mid season our form has been diabolical - look at things however you want, we're in serious trouble, and LJ and the coaching staff are not blameless.

[Ayteomike2]

8 hours ago, Dolman Block B said:

The crowd will destroy Lee Johnson Wednesday if we lose

Thats a certainty 

Then Steve Lansdown will have decision to make

A new man in for the Newcastle game "could" be a massive boost

 

 

 

but would it be another panic appointment - perhaps it would be a time to change some of the back room staff as well

[BobBobSuperBob]

17 minutes ago, Ayteomike2 said:

but would it be another panic appointment - perhaps it would be a time to change some of the back room staff as well

Not sure it would be

Not even we are stupid enough to fire LJ without having sounded out a replacement

Are we ? !!!!!

Id expect a quick appointment if it comes to it, but one that's been pre-researched

[GJS]

8 hours ago, Dolman Block B said:

The crowd will destroy Lee Johnson Wednesday if we lose

Thats a certainty 

Then Steve Lansdown will have decision to make

A new man in for the Newcastle game "could" be a massive boost

 

 

 

I think your wrong.

[GJS]

3 hours ago, Dolman Block B said:

Forget Villa.

Wednesday is huge.

Lose and trust me LJ will be hammered from all sides of the ground.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think your wrong. Will get hammered by small sections only.

[BCFC Rich]

1 hour ago, samo II said:

Okay, RE the three bold sections;

- I am honest to God not trying to make him look bad; those are the raw numbers, and they look bad because... well they are really, really bad bad.  Measure it however you want; it isn't as if the alternative six match form significantly improves the picture - and three of the points come from a grindhouse of performance against a team all but relegated by the end of February, and one point comes from having lost a three goal lead, which is the second time in less than a month we've lost two goal leads inside the final third of games.  That considered, I think looking at 10 games is actually more informative than the last three, certainly without context.

- If, buts, maybes; you're saying that if a new gaffer got the results LJ did post-Burnley we'd be ecstatic?  Like I've said elsewhere; I'm a pragmatist, so if we'd taken five more points under a new manager I'd still be deadly concerned over our Championship status, because we'd still need 15+ points in 15 games.  But in all honestly, if the performances we'd put in were the same, then I'd be wildly concerned, as it would prove the lack of steel in the team was there in the players, not the way they were being motivated and set up.  Thing is; I'm not sure it is.  We were comeback kings earlier in the season, yet this looks to have deserted us.  Why?  Can't be sure.  But radical formation and personnel changes haven't made us more robust, and some of our standout performers have been sidelined, so the question is; where is the problem?  Unfortunately for our coaching staff, they are the one area we've not made radical alterations, hence the pressure on them.

- If after Burton we have no more points than we do now, or even only perhaps one or two, it is far too late.  I think it might be too late now, to be honest.  We need mid table form for the rest of the campaign, and last time we displayed anything like that (and, okay; looking at it over six games) was nearly three months ago.  Seen nothing to suggest we'll achieve that now, as much as I hope we do.  But all this "wait, wait, wait" has ****ed us before; really hope it hasn't again.

End of the day; since before mid season our form has been diabolical - look at things however you want, we're in serious trouble, and LJ and the coaching staff are not blameless.

8

Wasn't trying to be confrontational, just when people normally talk about recent form it's over 4-6 games, since we're in trouble people are picking any number to make things look bad (which really isn't needed!) - on this forum I've seen 12 game form, 17 game and 10. But really when you talk about form it's normally about the most recent set of games, if you're giving stats for more than the last six then it's because it illustrates your point better. Like I said if you want to pick longer term form why not the whole season so far? I just don't get why 10 games is a more useful gauge than the whole season or recent form.

I only posted the 6 day table because I felt it gave a more balanced view. I only added the detail of why I posted it because of your reply.  

I have definitely come out in support of LJ but I would want more than two points after Burton or it's clear we aren't turning a corner. I already posted it elsewhere, but I think we need 5 points minimum by the end of the Burton game. That's a big ask but not impossible and I think needed to show the LJ does have what it takes - if we don't hit that figure then I think it shows haven't turned a corner and the improvement in the last few games is a blip - therefore LJ is not who I have hoped he is and it would be time to look for a change. 

[JasonM88]

20 minutes ago, GJS said:

I think your wrong. Will get hammered by small sections only.

Really? There's small sections that would support him. Most wouldn't imo

[fgrsimon]

32 minutes ago, RichardEdd said:

Wasn't trying to be confrontational, just when people normally talk about recent form it's over 4-6 games, since we're in trouble people are picking any number to make things look bad (which really isn't needed!) - on this forum I've seen 12 game form, 17 game and 10. But really when you talk about form it's normally about the most recent set of games, if you're giving stats for more than the last six then it's because it illustrates your point better. Like I said if you want to pick longer term form why not the whole season so far? I just don't get why 10 games is a more useful gauge than the whole season or recent form.

I only posted the 6 day table because I felt it gave a more balanced view. I only added the detail of why I posted it because of your reply.  

I have definitely come out in support of LJ but I would want more than two points after Burton or it's clear we aren't turning a corner. I already posted it elsewhere, but I think we need 5 points minimum by the end of the Burton game. That's a big ask but not impossible and I think needed to show the LJ does have what it takes - if we don't hit that figure then I think it shows haven't turned a corner and the improvement in the last few games is a blip - therefore LJ is not who I have hoped he is and it would be time to look for a change. 

The problem with only looking at our last 6 is that t includes Rotherham at home which is basically a free 3 points for that period in time. For the last 6 games to be meaningful would need all our rivals to have also played Rotherham. Standard statistical analysis - disregard the top and bottom 5% (or 10%, or whatever) of results. So you'd say ignore games against Brighton/Newcastle and Rotherham which are likely to skew results one way or another.

For me less than 5 points in the next 3 games and it's goodbye. Tough target but he's had more than enough chances to right things so far.  In fact I could even go as far as 6 points given that Villa are in freefall and the pressure will be on them at Villa Park. It could be the perfect time to be playing them assuming Newcastle do the business and their bad run continues past next weekend.

 

[Star of a gunner]

the reality is we have picked up 8 points in 4 months , with the squad we have that is shameful .