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Our form - LJ to stay or go?

ChippenhamRed

By ChippenhamRed
in Football Chat

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JoeAman08

JoeAman08

Posted
Posted

Stay for sure. It wasn't as bad a season as people make out. From 1-23 was probably stronger than last years championship. We are on more points than last season and could realistically win and finish 15th which is 3 places higher which is progress. We had a really bad stretch where LJ couldn't get a sandwich made right. He has seemingly learned from it and improved us massively. Now people will shout about the money spent but we'll be better for that next season with all the young players having more experience. Plus a big chunk of what we spent with the older players didn't work out. So not entirely down to LJ. 

I know no one wants to hear it but we were a few minutes away from 10-12 place. We see out a couple of those games around Christmas time and we're on low 60s and that's still with bad form just slightly better than the atrocious form. It was consistency that cost us this season and we seemed to have picked some of that up. Hopefully we can carry that into next season and if we do, I think we can be a top 10 team barring injury or losing a few key players(Pack, Smith, Flint). Need a few additions and subtractions but we do have a good young core of players who will only get better. 

The mid season run was undoubtedly sack worthy but the decision to keep him could really pay off. As everyone else has said, I'm willing to see if he's moved on and learned. I don't like he's learning his trade here but he is and hope he's progressed as much as some of the players. He is good at improving players and you can see that with Tammy, Brownhill, O'Dowda and Paterson. I'm excited for next season.

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GrahamC

GrahamC

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Posted

He's going nowhere.

If the owner wasn't going to sack his mate when we were on a record breaking losing run then he sure as hell won't do so when we have won four out of our last five.

However spending circa £15m and having a wages to turnover ratio in excess of 100% just to be two points ahead of Burton is not that much of a cause for celebration, is it?

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Nibor

Nibor

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3 minutes ago, JHAGa said:

 

He cites the resources put in but doesn't acknowledge the resources taken out. A 0 net spend and a slight improvement in league position is fair for me.

I'm sorry but you're ignoring the wage bill, giving LJ credit for income from Kodjia and Bolasie which had nothing to do with him and ignoring that we've spent those windfalls to very little gain.  Yes he gets some credit for getting us out of the shit in 15/16 but the problems this season were of his own making and mostly unnecessary.  Until he learns from those mistakes (and a few good results at the end when it's that or relegation don't really confirm that for me) he has to do a lot more to earn some trust.

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shepton red

shepton red

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Posted
20 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Thanks, another great contribution. We're not talking about whether he WILL stay or go, we're talking about whether he SHOULD. Massive difference. Most people managed to grasp that....maybe I'm not the stupid one?

Stupid question 

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GodEmperor Palpatine

GodEmperor Palpatine

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7 minutes ago, Nibor said:

I'm sorry but you're ignoring the wage bill, giving LJ credit for income from Kodjia and Bolasie which had nothing to do with him and ignoring that we've spent those windfalls to very little gain.  Yes he gets some credit for getting us out of the shit in 15/16 but the problems this season were of his own making and mostly unnecessary.  Until he learns from those mistakes (and a few good results at the end when it's that or relegation don't really confirm that for me) he has to do a lot more to earn some trust.

A few good results? 3 defeats in the last 13 games while taking 22 points probably shows he has learned from his mistakes mid-season.

IMO he deserves some credit for JK as well, I mean under his management JK scored 10 goals... if it wasn't for those goals then we wouldn't be talking about 11-15M transfer fees. Hats off to both SC and LJ on that score

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ChippenhamRed

ChippenhamRed

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19 minutes ago, JHAGa said:

 

He cites the resources put in but doesn't acknowledge the resources taken out. A 0 net spend and a slight improvement in league position is fair for me. Could and would have been so much better if we didn't go on the bad run but it's difficult to regain confidence when things are so low and LJ has done a brilliant job in rectifying the situation we found ourselves in, many a more experienced manager would have failed. I feel the January acquisitions were important, when confidence was low in the early period of the bad run, we were pretty much wholly dependent on Abraham going forward but Taylor, Djuric and Cotterill strengthened us and Wright was a very good defensive signing.

 

If we hadn't sold Kodjia as well as the summer acquisitions, I'm sure our position would reflect the resources that were put in. But we lost him and our league position is similar to that of this time last season. Even a slight improvement as things stand.

 

I think after the recent great run of form, LJ has actually done a decent job this season. The extreme lows don't go in his favour, as if our wins and losses were spread out it'd be more balanced and there'd be less for his biggest critics to complain about. But I'm sure LJ and the players have learned much from this season and will benefit from the experience of the lows in the future. To come through such testing times is a credit to him, the players and the coaching staff. Our squad is promising but doesn't scream out quality of being a top 8 side or anything like that. I think mid-table is about right and I wouldn't have been surprised to see us finish anywhere from 10th-20th. The Championship is a close division and there's fine margins. We went on a terrible run of form but have recovered extremely well and have won a similar amount of games to most teams in the division outside of the top 8. With a few acquisitions in the summer, especially when it comes to replacing Tammy/Kodjia, I think we can have a good season next year.

Whilst I think most of what you say is fair enough, you can't cite a zero net spend. In Tammy he has benefitted from the services of a striker worth perhaps £15-20m. In terms of players at his disposal, it's nowhere near a zero net spend. It's just he didn't pay for Tammy.

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JHAGa

JHAGa

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16 minutes ago, Nibor said:

I'm sorry but you're ignoring the wage bill, giving LJ credit for income from Kodjia and Bolasie which had nothing to do with him and ignoring that we've spent those windfalls to very little gain.  Yes he gets some credit for getting us out of the shit in 15/16 but the problems this season were of his own making and mostly unnecessary.  Until he learns from those mistakes (and a few good results at the end when it's that or relegation don't really confirm that for me) he has to do a lot more to earn some trust.

 

I'm not giving him credit, I'm just acknowledging that he didn't have some massive war chest. I was on about the money for Kodjia, Williams, Agard and Ayling but add to it Albert/Bolasie too and we definitely didn't have a positive net spend. Just because he didn't sign Kodjia doesn't mean it was an easy process losing him. Tottenham lost Bale and spent loads, they still found it more difficult, same happened with Suarez and Liverpool. It's quite a common occurrence in football at all levels. When we were on the losing run, we struggled for a variety of factors such as confidence, but a main one was that opposition teams knew we had little threat outside of Abraham. Our two strikers were Abraham and Wilbraham up until January, and as good as Abraham was/is, he can't do everything on his own. Hence why Taylor and Djuric joining, along with Wright (defensively) and Cotterill were important, bringing in attacking reinforcements and to go some way to filling the gap Kodjia left.

 

I'm not saying it's been a good season, nobody claims that, but I can understand how events came to pass and I think there's cause for optimism in the future. The experience of it will be a benefit to LJ and the players, in my opinion. You learn the most when times are tough.

 

At the end of the day, we started the season very well and ended it very well (even more impressive considering the low point we were at, in my opinion). We went on a terrible run halfway where manager and players were rightfully criticised, confidence was low, but reinforcements were brought in and they responded to it in brilliant fashion. Just as criticism (not the abuse from some though) was warranted when things were going bad, credit should also be given for when things have been done well. Over his tenure, LJ ended last season well, started this season well, we struggled in the middle but have gone on to finish things well. 3 out of 4 isn't bad. But like I said, the extreme highs/lows don't help as some people are unwilling to let go of it whereas they may be more inclined to if it was split in a more even manner. Hopefully we just cut out the extreme lows next season!

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CrazyInWeston

CrazyInWeston

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Just now, JHAGa said:

Over his tenure, LJ ended last season well, started this season well, we struggled in the middle but have gone on to finish things well. 3 out of 4 isn't bad. But like I said, the extreme highs/lows don't help as some people are unwilling to let go of it whereas they may be more inclined to if it was split in a more even manner. Hopefully we just cut out the extreme lows next season!

How do we know that Lee's family problems weren't part of a knock on effect? I know it doesn't sound professional but the guy is human after all? I know his dad went under triple bypass surgery, was that immediate, or was there waiting list for it to be done? - Lee's efforts after his dads surgery suddenly we are top form? I may not have everything right so I invite you to come at me and give me stick over this... well basically... just educate me if you know the truth. Look at my name, I am the "un-informative one" after all.

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Major Isewater

Major Isewater

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I was very much a ' Johnson out ' kind of a guy and would have sacked him before the January transfer window .

 I respect him for keeping his act together and getting us back on track . He doesn't have my total confidence as yet but he's getting there .

Well done LJ let's see some progress next season.

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Guest

Guest

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Posted

Seems fans soon forget, there will be undoubted major changes this summer like the last one and just like this time last season LJ is a hero. Will he again get lucky and find a winning team before this time next year? don't think so myself.

We will have to find another Tammy and maybe another Flint both key members of our team a team that even with them only managed to just stay in this division this season.

Why are we so keen to go into the lions den again when we only just managed to escape last time? ....oh well round we go again then, tickets sold, seats booked....

 

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

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6 minutes ago, glos old boy said:

Seems fans soon forget, there will be undoubted major changes this summer like the last one and just like this time last season LJ is a hero. Will he again get lucky and find a winning team before this time next year? don't think so myself.

We will have to find another Tammy and maybe another Flint both key members of our team a team that even with them only managed to just stay in this division this season.

Why are we so keen to go into the lions den again when we only just managed to escape last time? ....oh well round we go again then, tickets sold, seats booked....

 

Don't need major changes, that was last summer and that was accelerated in Jan. 5 in 5 out I reckon, and given a number of those out will be loanees that represents relative stability.

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Guest

Guest

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1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Don't need major changes, that was last summer and that was accelerated in Jan. 5 in 5 out I reckon, and given a number of those out will be loanees that represents relative stability.

I`ll go with at least double figures out and in before the 2nd window closes next season.

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MarkRed!

MarkRed!

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Luckiest manager in the EFL... credit to him though, I thought he was a deadman walking. However, where have those performances come from and where have they been between November and March. Magnificent today in all respects. I am glad LJ has survived as SL put his reputation on him. Thus, bravo for coming through it all. I wanted him gone but whatever he has done credit to him and hopefully we can build on this again. A massive summer ahead and some tough decisions to be made.

After the Preston game I thought we would get relegated but 4 wins from 5 and cleansheets as well is a great effort... A settled side perhaps was the key, which TBF most on here kept on requesting. 442 is not the easiest formation to play but to a man the players have been excellent. Well done, LJ for turning it around and for ruining Brighton's party. They did us in the playoffs I recall and set us back years as a result COYR!

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finbarr_in_z

finbarr_in_z

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Posted
59 minutes ago, CiderJar said:

18194054_10154549870387215_5267324030671

Beat me to it

http://www.footballwebpages.co.uk/championship/form

 

Last 6 Matches P W D L F A +/- Pts
1 Sheffield Wednesday W 2-0 v ROTH.. W 2-1 v NEWC.. W 1-0 v CARD.. W 2-1 v QUEE.. W 2-1 v DERB.. W 1-0 v IPSW.. 6 6 0 0 10 3 +7 18
2 Fulham L 4-2 v DERB.. W 3-1 v IPSW.. W 3-1 v NORW.. W 3-1 v ASTO.. W 4-1 v HUDD.. D 1-1 v BREN.. 6 4 1 1 16 9 +7 13
3 Bristol City L 5-0 v PRES.. W 3-1 v WOLV.. W 2-1 v QUEE.. D 1-1 v BLAC.. W 3-2 v BARN.. W 1-0 v BRIG.. 6 4 1 1 10 10 0 13
4 Brighton & Hove Albion W 3-1 v BIRM.. W 2-1 v QUEE.. W 2-0 v WOLV.. W 2-1 v WIGA.. L 2-0 v NORW.. L 1-0 v BRIS.. 6 4 0 2 9 6 +3 12
5 Reading W 3-1 v BLAC.. L 7-1 v NORW.. W 3-1 v ASTO.. W 2-1 v ROTH.. L 3-2 v NOTT.. W 1-0 v WIGA.. 6 4 0 2 12 13 -1 12
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Spike

Spike

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I couldn't sack him after today, the team looked like what we saw at the beginning of the season but I still have major concerns.

Tammy - no way we'll be getting him back, instantly we're going to be missing a massive part of the team.

Flint - If we lose him then Hodor has some very big shoes to step into

LJ - he may have turned a corner but look how long it took him to learn which players work where and what tactics we should be using, next season I can see our squad looking a lot different which means we could end up going through the whole same process again.

 

Having listened to the match today they talked about how LJ had to make a presentation to Chelsea on why we should get Tammy and he nailed it, this is something I never knew and it's great to know having LJ actually does have some form of positive effect but I also worry that whilst we may be able to bring in good loanees it's permanent signings that we need to bring in, loanees are great but you get them for 6-12 months generally and that means having to constantly replace them.

For now nothing is going to change, LJ is in charge, the team are looking like a team again but until we see who LJ can bring in and how well he can make them work as a team I'm still very much concerned. For today I'm just going to enjoy we're still a Championship team.

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MarkRed!

MarkRed!

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Posted
1 hour ago, CiderJar said:

18194054_10154549870387215_5267324030671

If you put this with our form until the 2nd International Break I bet it would have us in the top 6 as well. This is why we can be frustrated. There is clearly a good group of players there and whatever happened in the period of November - March is perhaps one of the worst I have experienced. Nevertheless a great end to the season and hopefully LJ can learn from the good, the bad and the darn right ugly parts of the season! COYR!

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BobBobSuperBob

BobBobSuperBob

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Lordofthebling said:

He kept us up but have we progressed?

Looking very much for positives -

 

As a vocal LJ out I would consider that , in theory , 12 months in he should have learned lessons and should be a lot closer to the team and squad he wants

And thus we should be in a better situation than we were 12 months ago , ( if you can follow my logic !! )

:fingerscrossed:

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