Our form - LJ to stay or go?

[Lordofthebling]

15 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Looking very much for positives -

 

As a vocal LJ out I would consider that , in theory , 12 months in he should have learned lessons and should be a lot closer to the team and squad he wants

And thus we should be in a better situation than we were 12 months ago , ( if you can follow my logic !! )

I'm trying so hard to follow positives, and me looking at positives - I think he could possibly be a good coach or manager.

However, we spent big this season and for what?

[reddogkev]

I am convinced the club will grow with LJ in charge and push for the top ten.

You have to be very impressed with the way he has restored our season after the losing streak, and quickly overcame the 5-0 loss to Preston, which could have resulted in another losing streak.

I have 100% confidence in Lee Johnson, the board, and SL.  Excited to see what happens next season, especially if we beat Birmingham and take our momentum onwards.

[Red Rag]

So long as he learns for his mistakes then stay. I loved the SC era but he clearly did not see eye to eye with SL. LJ and SL are a different pair, both look to be singing from the same hymn sheet. All I know in my many years of managing a business is, that's it's much easier if all staff are on your side and on the same wave length, hence SL sticking with LJ.  I think we will know very early into next season if LJ is the real deal. Residual doubts by SL over this seasons performance will be high on his agenda, If LJ does not deliver early he will be gone.

[CiderJar]

1 hour ago, MarkRed! said:

If you put this with our form until the 2nd International Break I bet it would have us in the top 6 as well. This is why we can be frustrated. There is clearly a good group of players there and whatever happened in the period of November - March is perhaps one of the worst I have experienced. Nevertheless a great end to the season and hopefully LJ can learn from the good, the bad and the darn right ugly parts of the season! COYR!

Indeed, we are third in the last ten games too

http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/league-championship/2016-2017/form-table-ten

[Hampshire Red]

Apparently it is cool to question the sanity of an owner for employing a manager who one or two fans don't like as seen at Man C. Man U, Arsenal, Spurs and every other club

At City it has become a bit boring considering SL has yet again done exactly the right thing and stuck by one of the most promising young managers in the League 

Long live Lansdown 

Long Live Lee J

[Hampshire reds]

Not a fan of Lee Johnson but the man deserves to start next season. A big summer ahead in the transfer market. He has been lucky we have had tammy

 Without his goals we would be down and he would be out of a job.

[E.G.Red]

11 hours ago, petehinton said:

Fair play To him for turning it round, but he dragged us through some real shit and horrible times as fans. The guy has Tammy to thank for large parts of his career here.

If we are in the bottom 4/5 by the end of September he needs to go for me. 

 

45 minutes ago, Hampshire reds said:

Not a fan of Lee Johnson but the man deserves to start next season. A big summer ahead in the transfer market. He has been lucky we have had tammy

 Without his goals we would be down and he would be out of a job.

Don't without LJ we wouldn't have had Tammy.  It was LJ who sold the club to Chelsea , Tammy and his parents. Sky were very complimentary on how Tammy had blossomed since first arriving. These plaudits for both club and Tammy only serve us well for next season.

[Between heaven and hell]

Looks like I for one will be eating an awfull lot of humble pie for a while.

Had great delight in telling my Rovers and Swindle mates he was a clueless pillock 6 weeks ago.

Now I'm starting to feel a tad embarrassed tbh.

[Olé]

Interesting debate. Was very conscious that my absence on here would be noted as a sign that I only post when we're doing badly, which isn't the case at all!

I've been in end of season mode and yesterday in particular thought that what with it being on Sky everyone will have seen the (fantastic) game, and with only about two shots on target each, there wasn't much of a story to re-tell. What I will say, is that was as good a back 4 performance as I've ever seen from City at this level, the way Bryan and Little stayed with their men, didn't dive in, kept goal side and very tight, lightyears ahead of how any of our full backs were playing earlier in the season, and then in the middle, Flint was, as everyone saw, absolutely immense, if the rumoured interest is real, that was one hell of a TV audition.

One other observation - I really rated Magnusson's performances earlier in the season and was disappointed he drifted out of the team and was scapegoat for the disintegration at Preston, but when you watch yesterday and see the way Flint and Wright play together, there is a really important lesson. Magnusson is a talented player who can do all the basics and also play a bit, but when you compare to now, you can see that Magnusson and Flint were just two players who shared central defence but played fairly independently and in different styles, now Flint has an instinctive trust and confidence in Wright's no-nonsense style. 

Onto the central point of this thread regarding Lee Johnson. It's a really tough one. Sentiment is such a big thing in football, and many people, myself now even included, are sentimental about a set of good results and the weather brightening up (!) and probably willing to let it go now and see LJ run his course. It's easy to get taken by the optimism, and I too am intrigued whether we have a manager who now has had that most invaluable education of near failure... personally I think there have been too many flaws evidenced over the course of this season as a whole, to imprint the last few games in your mind as the real Lee Johnson.

For one thing, prior to yesterday our recent upturn coincided more with playing largely dead rubber teams and mostly at home. People say 'when it mattered' it has come good, not to be uncharitable to Johnson, but for me it was more about when it mattered less to the opposition. Yesterday not the case of course, but there we saw that most important commodity in football: confidence, anything is possible when you get up a head of steam over several results. I wouldn't underestimate how much the players were stung by songs sung at Preston, there has been no tinkering since, they've been left to get on with it and put it right.

I've always believed we had the players to challenge anyone in the division (and it's encouraging that many of them are young and still developing - please god we can hold onto Flint) and so I've always struggled with what Lee Johnson was doing with them. I'm not being unfair in giving players credit and manager not, I have called out specifically the flaws over the course of the entire season where I think the manager was wasting his resources. The way we are playing now is the antithesis of how he had the team setup for so long, and in a shape and style that he refused to play, even when the flaws were so readily debated on here:

• We've abandoned that laboured god-awful one up top and are playing a traditional 4-4-2
• We're actually using the width of the pitch in possession through Paterson and Brownhill rather than trying to go through the middle all the time
• And on Paterson and Brownhill, we're giving both a run of games after largely excluding them as (less than) bit part players for half the season
• We're giving Tammy support up front so we occupy defenders and build possession in the opposition half instead of simply punting it up to him
• King Korey is fit and integral again (okay, hardly in Johnson's control) but more widely there is something to be said about the resurgence of players from our promotion season (Fielding, Little, Smith, Pack etc) who I would imagine earlier in the season LJ - and others - would have been quick to blame
• We're favouring entrusting results to a stable 11 over the system or the repeated tinkering (anyone remember Adam Matthews playing CB once?) 

So the question now is has Lee actually learned or are we just benefitting from his entire system and beliefs being debunked so painfully over 40 odd games, that he is now getting the benefit of success by exception, i.e. when all else has failed - and will he do the same again next season, and will we experience the same when he starts to tinker again or is confronted by real decisions again? Not to say that means I give Johnson no credit for yesterday or recent results, but what I mean is does he really know how to win and what systems to play, or when he starts pulling the levers again, will the whole train come back off the rails?

In any case it seems fairly certain we will stick with him, this is his legendary third transfer window, so that will be his acid test and since recruitment to date has been largely hit and miss, probably as good an indicator as any will be what changes he makes in the summer and how that new team sets up and plays for the early part of next season. He has no margin for error with fans. I'd be happy to have a new manager and don't believe SL is vindicated yet, but I'm okay with the wait and see approach. I like what I see again yesterday from the likes of Duric, there is a really good team in the making there if he gets it right (without Tomlin!)

By the way I saw @spudski briefly before the Barnsley game. He is in good form and not missing this place one bit. Fair play to the guy, I would have thought he would take the opportunity with the improvements to have set a few people right or at least returned to give his impression of the tactical differences over the past month (I know I for one would be interested how he sees it), but full respect to him for sticking to his original guns and continuing this digital detox. The sun is out, I'm sure we'll all be a bit quieter for the foreseeable. Horrible season all but over, all that remains is to give Tammy one hell of a send off. What. A. Player!

[BobBobSuperBob]

35 minutes ago, Olé said:

Interesting debate. Was very conscious that my absence on here would be noted as a sign that I only post when we're doing badly, which isn't the case at all!

I've been in end of season mode and yesterday in particular thought that what with it being on Sky everyone will have seen the (fantastic) game, and with only about two shots on target each, there wasn't much of a story to re-tell. What I will say, is that was as good a back 4 performance as I've ever seen from City at this level, the way Bryan and Little stayed with their men, didn't dive in, kept goal side and very tight, lightyears ahead of how any of our full backs were playing earlier in the season, and then in the middle, Flint was, as everyone saw, absolutely immense, if the rumoured interest is real, that was one hell of a TV audition.

One other observation - I really rated Magnusson's performances earlier in the season and was disappointed he drifted out of the team and was scapegoat for the disintegration at Preston, but when you watch yesterday and see the way Flint and Wright play together, there is a really important lesson. Magnusson is a talented player who can do all the basics and also play a bit, but when you compare to now, you can see that Magnusson and Flint were just two players who shared central defence but played fairly independently and in different styles, now Flint has an instinctive trust and confidence in Wright's no-nonsense style. 

Onto the central point of this thread regarding Lee Johnson. It's a really tough one. Sentiment is such a big thing in football, and many people, myself now even included, are sentimental about a set of good results and the weather brightening up (!) and probably willing to let it go now and see LJ run his course. It's easy to get taken by the optimism, and I too am intrigued whether we have a manager who now has had that most invaluable education of near failure... personally I think there have been too many flaws evidenced over the course of this season as a whole, to imprint the last few games in your mind as the real Lee Johnson.

For one thing, prior to yesterday our recent upturn coincided more with playing largely dead rubber teams and mostly at home. People say 'when it mattered' it has come good, not to be uncharitable to Johnson, but for me it was more about when it mattered less to the opposition. Yesterday not the case of course, but there we saw that most important commodity in football: confidence, anything is possible when you get up a head of steam over several results. I wouldn't underestimate how much the players were stung by songs sung at Preston, there has been no tinkering since, they've been left to get on with it and put it right.

I've always believed we had the players to challenge anyone in the division (and it's encouraging that many of them are young and still developing - please god we can hold onto Flint) and so I've always struggled with what Lee Johnson was doing with them. I'm not being unfair in giving players credit and manager not, I have called out specifically the flaws over the course of the entire season where I think the manager was wasting his resources. The way we are playing now is the antithesis of how he had the team setup for so long, and in a shape and style that he refused to play, even when the flaws were so readily debated on here:

• We've abandoned that laboured god-awful one up top and are playing a traditional 4-4-2
• We're actually using the width of the pitch in possession through Paterson and Brownhill rather than trying to go through the middle all the time
• And on Paterson and Brownhill, we're giving both a run of games after largely excluding them as (less than) bit part players for half the season
• We're giving Tammy support up front so we occupy defenders and build possession in the opposition half instead of simply punting it up to him
• King Korey is fit and integral again (okay, hardly in Johnson's control) but more widely there is something to be said about the resurgence of players from our promotion season (Fielding, Little, Smith, Pack etc) who I would imagine earlier in the season LJ - and others - would have been quick to blame
• We're favouring entrusting results to a stable 11 over the system or the repeated tinkering (anyone remember Adam Matthews playing CB once?) 

So the question now is has Lee actually learned or are we just benefitting from his entire system and beliefs being debunked so painfully over 40 odd games, that he is now getting the benefit of success by exception, i.e. when all else has failed - and will he do the same again next season, and will we experience the same when he starts to tinker again or is confronted by real decisions again? Not to say that means I give Johnson no credit for yesterday or recent results, but what I mean is does he really know how to win and what systems to play, or when he starts pulling the levers again, will the whole train come back off the rails?

In any case it seems fairly certain we will stick with him, this is his legendary third transfer window, so that will be his acid test and since recruitment to date has been largely hit and miss, probably as good an indicator as any will be what changes he makes in the summer and how that new team sets up and plays for the early part of next season. He has no margin for error with fans. I'd be happy to have a new manager and don't believe SL is vindicated yet, but I'm okay with the wait and see approach. I like what I see again yesterday from the likes of Duric, there is a really good team in the making there if he gets it right (without Tomlin!)

By the way I saw @spudski briefly before the Barnsley game. He is in good form and not missing this place one bit. Fair play to the guy, I would have thought he would take the opportunity with the improvements to have set a few people right or at least returned to give his impression of the tactical differences over the past month (I know I for one would be interested how he sees it), but full respect to him for sticking to his original guns and continuing this digital detox. The sun is out, I'm sure we'll all be a bit quieter for the foreseeable. Horrible season all but over, all that remains is to give Tammy one hell of a send off. What. A. Player!

Good post as always Ole and I , for one , was awaiting your recent thoughts with interest 

[1960maaan]

Similar to what I said , jus much more eloquently put . 

27 minutes ago, Olé said:

• We've abandoned that laboured god-awful one up top and are playing a traditional 4-4-2 Took Johnson a long time to even try that, even though people were crying out for it. Whoever was the 2nd striker , it just took pressure off of Tammy and gave him room to work. He's looked a better player for it.
• We're actually using the width of the pitch in possession through Paterson and Brownhill rather than trying to go through the middle all the time.  
• And on Paterson and Brownhill, we're giving both a run of games after largely excluding them as (less than) bit part players for half the season. Playing wide MF rather than wingers has helped making us a little more solid , and they're young and energetic and have supported the forwards well. Chipping in with gals now too.
• We're giving Tammy support up front so we occupy defenders and build possession in the opposition half instead of simply punting it up to him
• King Korey is fit and integral again (okay, hardly in Johnson's control) but more widely there is something to be said about the resurgence of players from our promotion season (Fielding, Little, Smith, Pack etc) who I would imagine earlier in the season LJ - and others - would have been quick to blame. Korey to time to get up to speed, strangely it seemed to be that first game at RB that got him really going again. It also showed how important FB's are to our game.
• We're favouring entrusting results to a stable 11 over the system or the repeated tinkering (anyone remember Adam Matthews playing CB once?) The AM at CB was bizarre , we had genuine CB's available and he goes with a player that didn't even want to be here (how it seemed to me at least) The settled side has given them time to gel as a team, they get used to playing with each other and trusting them.

We have a promising squad, then I thought that early in the season, and maybe 3 additions of quality and/or Championship experience could make a real difference. The big thing is the next 20 goal striker , can we make it 3 in a row ?

[ZiderEyed]

I'd like to have a chat with anyone who thinks he should be sacked at this point, continuity is the priority, we're in great form and our squad can win games.

[lenred]

Got to respect the bloke for playing his part in turning it around. I genuinely thought we were dead and buried so to bring it back fron the brink has been fantastic and to not give him credit for his part in that would be completely wrong so fair play to him. However, we should never ever have been in a position where we're still not sure of our fate with 2 games to go, and on that basis I still don't think he's the man for the job. The difference in class between him and what you need at this level is there for all to see. You only had to listen to the two managers' interviews following the game yesterday. Hughton came across as an experienced, knowledgable, classy and expert operator at this level and LJ came across as a novice, there by luck as opposed to judgement with his usual platitudes and nervous jokey demeanour.  Lots will disagree no doubt and fair play to you all, but he just doesn't inspire confidence imho and we need better going forwards. But, he is going to be here for the foreseeable no doubt about it,  so I, like 99.99% of the LJ 'doubters' will continue to get 100% behind our club whoever is in charge and look forward to next season with the same hope as always.  And if he proves me wrong I'll be extremely happy.   At least it's not been dull!  Looking forward now to being able to relax and take in next week watching others fighting for their lives! 

[Fordy62]

I've still got some pretty deep wounds. They're nowhere near healed yet and I'd still get rid of him. Probably.

However I do accept that this is nearly as ridiculous a suggestion as SL backing him after one win in a billion. 

I still feel largely empty. It's a feeling I want to get rid of, but I can't seem to shake it. 

[cockneydave]

16 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

So I come up with a reasoned argument in favour of LJ staying, and that's all you can come up with in response? Are you not able to put together a counter-argument?

Thats because he hasnt got one!!

[eardun]

I'm optimistic about next season under LJ. I only wobbled with the Preston performance and result. The championship is a bonkers division and it can all change around so quickly. For example, three of this season's play off teams finished in 17th, 19th and 20th position last season (we were 18th). Fulham looked rubbish even as late as September when we thrashed them; look at them now.

[GoodridgeandGoater]

Beating Birmingham next week would be hugely symbolic for LJ. Laying to rest the ghost of Coterril and putting a big name in Redknapp to the sword. 

I was anti anti-LJ for most of the season but then turned and thought he should have gone in Feb. Happy now to have been proved wrong. Think he has earned himself the much-vaunted 'third window'. But minus Tammy and with a highly competitive championship next year he'll need to play it well to keep some well-founded doubts at bay. 

[BS4 on Tour...]

On 29/04/2017 at 21:16, Super said:

We will be in exactly the same position next season.

I agree, we've scraped over the survival line with one game to go, not good enough given the budget and squad. It looks like we're stuck with LJ but I'd love to see Alan Pardew in control of our team before Xmas....the best of the 'available' names I think...

[City Rocker]

On 30/04/2017 at 14:42, eardun said:

I'm optimistic about next season under LJ. I only wobbled with the Preston performance and result. The championship is a bonkers division and it can all change around so quickly. For example, three of this season's play off teams finished in 17th, 19th and 20th position last season (we were 18th). Fulham looked rubbish even as late as September when we thrashed them; look at them now.

Fulham didn't look particularly rubbish that day, we were just unplayable. Maybe we can reach those heights again next season, without the subsequent capitulation? Or maybe not. We'll need a striker or two for sure.

[Murraysrightplum]

On 29/04/2017 at 20:04, Big Red Rich said:

All deserved mind.

Disagree. Some of the 'midget' comments that I've seen and heard have been ooo 

[Major Isewater]

I wouldn't change him now, on the back of our recent form the lads are obviously playing for him and they say what doesn't kill you makes you stronger . 

Let's see how the new season pans out and hopefully LJ does an ' Alan Dicks' ! 

 

[collierswalk]

current form over 10 games places City third, if you wanted to poach a manager who looks like a great option for next season a manager like Lee Johnson would probably be beyond the reach of City , so just consider it a coup to keep him.

Last 10 matches (total)

		GP	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	Pts	2.5+
1	Brighton & Hove	10	7	0	3	15	8	+7	21	40%
2	Fulham	10	6	2	2	23	15	+8	20	80%
3	Bristol City	10	6	2	2	16	13	+3	20	50%
4	Sheffield Wed	10	6	2	2	12	9	+3	20	30%
5	Reading	10	6	1	3	15	16	-1	19	60%
6	Brentford	10	5	2	3	20	11	+9	17	50%
7	Aston Villa	10	5	1	4	11	9	+2	16	20%
8	Wolverhampton	10	5	1	4	12	12	0	16	50%
9	Norwich City	10	4	3	3	21	16	+5	15	60%
10	Newcastle Utd	10	4	3	3	13	11	+2	15	50%
11	Burton Albion	10	4	3	3	13	12	+1	15	30%
12	Derby County	10	4	3	3	15	17	-2	15	70%
13	Cardiff City	10	3	4	3	9	10	-1	13	30%
14	Huddersfield	10	4	1	5	10	16	-6	13	40%
15	Ipswich Town	10	3	3	4	12	12	0	12	50%
16	Blackburn	10	2	5	3	10	13	-3	11	40%
17	QP Rangers	10	3	1	6	13	13	0	10	60%
18	Leeds Utd	10	2	4	4	11	11	0	10	30%
19	Preston	10	2	4	4	17	18	-1	10	70%
20	Wigan Athletic	10	3	1	6	9	15	-6	10	50%
21	Barnsley	10	1	5	4	11	14	-3	8	30%
22	Nottm Forest	10	2	2	6	10	14	-4	8	30%

[BobBobSuperBob]

3 hours ago, collierswalk said:

current form over 10 games places City third, if you wanted to poach a manager who looks like a great option for next season a manager like Lee Johnson would probably be beyond the reach of City , so just consider it a coup to keep him.

Last 10 matches (total)

		GP	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	Pts	2.5+
1	Brighton & Hove	10	7	0	3	15	8	+7	21	40%
2	Fulham	10	6	2	2	23	15	+8	20	80%
3	Bristol City	10	6	2	2	16	13	+3	20	50%
4	Sheffield Wed	10	6	2	2	12	9	+3	20	30%
5	Reading	10	6	1	3	15	16	-1	19	60%
6	Brentford	10	5	2	3	20	11	+9	17	50%
7	Aston Villa	10	5	1	4	11	9	+2	16	20%
8	Wolverhampton	10	5	1	4	12	12	0	16	50%
9	Norwich City	10	4	3	3	21	16	+5	15	60%
10	Newcastle Utd	10	4	3	3	13	11	+2	15	50%
11	Burton Albion	10	4	3	3	13	12	+1	15	30%
12	Derby County	10	4	3	3	15	17	-2	15	70%
13	Cardiff City	10	3	4	3	9	10	-1	13	30%
14	Huddersfield	10	4	1	5	10	16	-6	13	40%
15	Ipswich Town	10	3	3	4	12	12	0	12	50%
16	Blackburn	10	2	5	3	10	13	-3	11	40%
17	QP Rangers	10	3	1	6	13	13	0	10	60%
18	Leeds Utd	10	2	4	4	11	11	0	10	30%
19	Preston	10	2	4	4	17	18	-1	10	70%
20	Wigan Athletic	10	3	1	6	9	15	-6	10	50%
21	Barnsley	10	1	5	4	11	14	-3	8	30%
22	Nottm Forest	10	2	2	6	10	14	-4	8	30%

Try and find the one for the previous 20 and say the same thing

[fishy]

On 4/29/2017 at 19:39, ChippenhamRed said:

Why would you sack a manager who is now showing he IS capable of winning games in the Championship?

Just at it would have been entirely reasonable to sack the manager after 1 win in 17, it would now seem equally ridiculous to sack him with the team in such good form - and also having shown the strength of character to recover from that mauling at Preston. In the last third of the season we have shown top 10 form, and that is enough for me to say that LJ should now be our manager at the start of next season.

It is an inconvenient truth that SL's decision to keep faith in LJ has been justified. Would a new manager likely have done better over the last 10-15 games? And with the team now playing well and demonstrating form over an extended period that is much closer to expectations, would appointing a new manager guarantee even further improvement? I don't think it would.

My opinion is he should stay.

Thing is, I'm not sure what he's proven.  We lost a ridiculous amount of games in a row, record breaking in fact.  You can't whitewash over that with an end of season flurry.  I'll accept that he's going to be here next season and I'll reserve judgement until about October.

[collierswalk]

1 hour ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Try and find the one for the previous 20 and say the same thing

10 games is more than enough to indicate that there have been some significant benefits in allowing the manager time to reflect, adapt, and improve. The Investment made would be wasted if he wasn't in situ to oversee pre season planning , which Im sure is already underway. The retention of the manager may just have set this club apart from the hire and fire brigade, Gary Rowett at Birmingham City is a pretty good example. Instant success is not guaranteed but nearly all the successful teams that became "overnight success" stories had actually been years in the making. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 hour ago, collierswalk said:

10 games is more than enough to indicate that there have been some significant benefits in allowing the manager time to reflect, adapt, and improve. The Investment made would be wasted if he wasn't in situ to oversee pre season planning , which Im sure is already underway. The retention of the manager may just have set this club apart from the hire and fire brigade, Gary Rowett at Birmingham City is a pretty good example. Instant success is not guaranteed but nearly all the successful teams that became "overnight success" stories had actually been years in the making. 

All very interesting but zero evidence of your suggestion  (Based on recent form)

'a manager like Lee Johnson would probably be beyond the reach of City , so just consider it a coup to keep him.'

If you are basing that on the evidence of the last 10 games no club would judge a manager / coach on such a short span , and then by the same argument  there's very few clubs that would touch him if you look at the last 30 games or go back 50 games and have a different view again

Its now what he does or doesn't do from here on in that is the only relevant thing - no more excuses

[Cidre Monita]

He will get a chance to prove he has learnt something from this season. He deserves it, but he really has to understand what went wrong and his very direct involvement in that near disaster.

He took the heart out of the team that worked so well last year to avoid relegation. He ended this season using the heart of what remained of the promotion side. He needs to reflect on all of his man management errors, and there were numerous, at how he wasted transfers, money and a season of having the quite amazing talent of Tammy A.

He now has no excuses, he has yet another window to use, and one would guess up to 10 players to change (retirement, loan end, moving on etc.) . He cannot tinker with formation, players and playing style. He now has to set up a team for this division, that can compete regularly. No one expects miracles, a 60 to 65 points season would be big progress. 

I would have got rid, would still get rid, for reasons I believe are well founded. However, he is not going anywhere , and he will be at the club next season. His reputation in the game, and that of our club have been greatly tarnished, people talk, players talk. He has to, and SL has to, recover some very notable damage. It's a results business, fans will forget all if the team performs. 

Let's hope he starts the season like the steam train of this season, with a bit more lasting puff and no derailments. If not, LJ is for the scrap yard. 

[NickJ]

On 4/30/2017 at 10:10, Olé said:

For one thing, prior to yesterday our recent upturn coincided more with playing largely dead rubber teams and mostly at home. People say 'when it mattered' it has come good, not to be uncharitable to Johnson, but for me it was more about when it mattered less to the opposition.

 

A point I have made.

On the other hand, there have been periods when our fixtures were particularly tricky - Newcastle, Derby, Villa and Leeds all away for example,

It evens out over a season and so looking at the season as a whole, what can we say....

Our transfer spend was more than every team bar Newcastle, Norwich, Derby, Wolves, Fulham and Villa, plus we had the best loanee in the Championship, yet we went into the penultimate game not being certain of staying up.

Then I come back to Johnson's record as a manager.

Since becoming a manager Johnson has had 2 full seasons with one club.

In 2013/14, he finished 15th with Oldham.

In 2016/17, he will finish 15th-19th with us.

In between, he left Oldham in mid table in 2014-15 for Barnsley, and left Barnsley in mid table in 2015/16 to come to us.

I still do not see the credentials which saw him arrive here in the first place, and so find it difficult to see anything other than the same under achievement next season.

[Kid in the Riot]

4 hours ago, Psychopomp said:

He will get a chance to prove he has learnt something from this season. He deserves it, but he really has to understand what went wrong and his very direct involvement in that near disaster.

He took the heart out of the team that worked so well last year to avoid relegation. He ended this season using the heart of what remained of the promotion side. He needs to reflect on all of his man management errors, and there were numerous, at how he wasted transfers, money and a season of having the quite amazing talent of Tammy A.

He now has no excuses, he has yet another window to use, and one would guess up to 10 players to change (retirement, loan end, moving on etc.) . He cannot tinker with formation, players and playing style. He now has to set up a team for this division, that can compete regularly. No one expects miracles, a 60 to 65 points season would be big progress. 

I would have got rid, would still get rid, for reasons I believe are well founded. However, he is not going anywhere , and he will be at the club next season. His reputation in the game, and that of our club have been greatly tarnished, people talk, players talk. He has to, and SL has to, recover some very notable damage. It's a results business, fans will forget all if the team performs. 

Let's hope he starts the season like the steam train of this season, with a bit more lasting puff and no derailments. If not, LJ is for the scrap yard. 

Another top post, bit in bold spot on.

Next season I just can't see him sticking with the likes of Bryan, Little, Pack, Smith and Fielding though. There's bound to be more wholesale changes and tinkering. If he demonstrates again that he can't progress the club beyond using players that were already here then it really will be curtains.

[paulcityfan]

The great upturn in form exacty co-incided with the appointment of Jamie McAllister as assistant coach and to a lesser extent Matt Taylor, both who came in.  I cannot say the addition of a player would have made much difference so I'm going with the complete change of tactics is down to the change in coaching staff.

I'm no fan of Lee Johnson as a coach or a manager but If this balance works then I'm all for it.