bend it like brian Posted June 16, 2017 Report Share Posted June 16, 2017 1 minute ago, BigTone said: IMO the Contractor who undertook the refurb work (Rydon) should have all of their ongoing projects suspended pending a full investigation. Like wise all previous projects need to be checked as a matter of urgency.If it's happened once then it's likely to have happened elsewhere. i really think the problem is higher up.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheshire_red Posted June 16, 2017 Report Share Posted June 16, 2017 Brown paper envelopes abound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 16, 2017 Report Share Posted June 16, 2017 Seriously people. Stop buying this absolute sh*trag of a paper: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/16/sun-journalist-grenfell-tower-victim-hospital?CMP=twt_a-media_b-gdnmedia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted June 16, 2017 Report Share Posted June 16, 2017 15 minutes ago, bend it like brian said: i really think the problem is higher up.... Maybe, but you need to open the can at some point and see what worms come out. IMO the Contractor is the obvious starting point. Do you recall the crane that collapsed in Mecca a few years back. The Saudi Government confiscated all the passports of every executive in SBG (the contractor) and suspended SBG from continuing work pending an investigation. Our Government needs to have the balls to do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted June 16, 2017 Report Share Posted June 16, 2017 Just now, Tomarse said: Seriously people. Stop buying this absolute sh*trag of a paper: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/16/sun-journalist-grenfell-tower-victim-hospital?CMP=twt_a-media_b-gdnmedia I stopped a long long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted June 16, 2017 Report Share Posted June 16, 2017 14 minutes ago, Tomarse said: Seriously people. Stop buying this absolute sh*trag of a paper: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/16/sun-journalist-grenfell-tower-victim-hospital?CMP=twt_a-media_b-gdnmedia Amazing that they can actually sink lower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted June 16, 2017 Report Share Posted June 16, 2017 13 minutes ago, BigTone said: Maybe, but you need to open the can at some point and see what worms come out. IMO the Contractor is the obvious starting point. Do you recall the crane that collapsed in Mecca a few years back. The Saudi Government confiscated all the passports of every executive in SBG (the contractor) and suspended SBG from continuing work pending an investigation. Our Government needs to have the balls to do the same. the problem is these days is we are run by accountants, jobs are only done won on the cheapest price, there is a reason those prices are cheaper then more established contractors, its because they use substandard mats, Heads have to roll starting at the top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 16, 2017 Report Share Posted June 16, 2017 11 minutes ago, Super said: Amazing that they can actually sink lower. They keep on setting a new benchmark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Red Posted June 16, 2017 Report Share Posted June 16, 2017 The Mail had a post on Twitter showing the face of the guy who lived in the flat where the fridge had failed. Was like a wanted poster. They've since deleted it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 16, 2017 Report Share Posted June 16, 2017 1 minute ago, Northern Red said: The Mail had a post on Twitter showing the face of the guy who lived in the flat where the fridge had failed. Was like a wanted poster. They've since deleted it.... They've also been laying into Khan but not May.. didn't take long did it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted June 16, 2017 Report Share Posted June 16, 2017 12 minutes ago, Tomarse said: They keep on setting a new benchmark. they have a new chief editor, I think his name is lucifer or something, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted June 16, 2017 Report Share Posted June 16, 2017 30 minutes ago, Monkeh said: the problem is these days is we are run by accountants, jobs are only done won on the cheapest price, there is a reason those prices are cheaper then more established contractors, its because they use substandard mats, Heads have to roll starting at the top Agree and disagree with that Monkeh because the Councils have a procurement framework which is always made up of established contractors for these kinds of major works. The problem is (as I touched on before) that if a contract is estimated to be worth circa £10m and say 4 Contractors tender for the job the breakdown could be as follows: Contractor 1 = £10.5m Contractor 2 = £7.5m Contractor 3 = £9.8m Contractor 4 = £10m In my experience warning bells start to ring as it is fairly obvious that Contractor 2 has dropped a bollock or is trying to buy the job. Therefore a lot of work needs to take place to clarify their tender as being correct and to specification. As I said in a previous post the lowest price is not always the best. The problem with some Councils is that the Board who make the final decision are not always made up with people who have relevant construction qualification or experience. In that respect you are spot on. I have "inherited" one project that was built (in a fashion) by one of the UK's largest building companies. We have to date identified circa 4000 defects and are putting a claim together. Thankfully none of the defects are fire related but that really isn't the point. The Contractor in question has taken us to adjudication on 2 occasions and lost in spectacular fashion with both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted June 16, 2017 Report Share Posted June 16, 2017 death toll confirmed at 30 and up to 76 missing both expected to rise It's hard to keep reading about this and not feel let down and angry, and I'm not even effected by it, I hate to be in those who are effected by this's shoes I do have a feeling that this will be and be buried like so many other things with our government Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted June 16, 2017 Report Share Posted June 16, 2017 Just now, BigTone said: Agree and disagree with that Monkeh because the Councils have a procurement framework which is always made up of established contractors for these kinds of major works. The problem is (as I touched on before) that if a contract is estimated to be worth circa £10m and say 4 Contractors tender for the job the breakdown could be as follows: Contractor 1 = £10.5m Contractor 2 = £7.5m Contractor 3 = £9.8m Contractor 4 = £10m In my experience warning bells start to ring as it is fairly obvious that Contractor 2 has dropped a bollock or is trying to buy the job. Therefore a lot of work needs to take place to clarify their tender as being correct and to specification. As I said in a previous post the lowest price is not always the best. The problem with some Councils is that the Board who make the final decision are not always made up with people who have relevant construction qualification or experience. In that respect you are spot on. I have "inherited" one project that was built (in a fashion) by one of the UK's largest building companies. We have to date identified circa 4000 defects and are putting a claim together. Thankfully none of the defects are fire related but that really isn't the point. I know I'm spot on, I've been around the industry for almost 20 years all be it on the railways, As purse strings tighten corners get cut, that's what has happened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted June 16, 2017 Report Share Posted June 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, Monkeh said: I know I'm spot on, I've been around the industry for almost 20 years all be it on the railways, As purse strings tighten corners get cut, that's what has happened Indeed, but my point here is that more often than not it's the Contractor cutting the corners with inferior materials and screwing their own subbies. They will then happily lie in order to win the work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted June 16, 2017 Report Share Posted June 16, 2017 10 minutes ago, Monkeh said: death toll confirmed at 30 and up to 76 missing both expected to rise It's hard to keep reading about this and not feel let down and angry, and I'm not even effected by it, I hate to be in those who are effected by this's shoes I do have a feeling that this will be and be buried like so many other things with our government I feel the same Monkeh but have great faith that the public will not let this be buried this time around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Maesknoll Red Posted June 16, 2017 Admin Report Share Posted June 16, 2017 1 hour ago, bend it like brian said: correct......and obviously not installed I'm not a civil Engineer, but the original design must have met the existing standards, I can only speculate, but if you cover a building in a non fire retardant cladding, then it catches fire on a summers night, when most windows are open, no amount of internal fire breaks are going to stop it. Add to that, people leaving their flats (not criticising) maybe leaving fire doors open in their panic and you have a recipe for disaster, not envisaged by the original design and plan for fire. Has austerity actually got anything to do with this? The building has been refurbished at a substantial cost, no idea why sprinklers weren't fitted, maybe cost, maybe just because the regs didn't require it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheshire_red Posted June 16, 2017 Report Share Posted June 16, 2017 8 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said: I'm not a civil Engineer, but the original design must have met the existing standards, I can only speculate, but if you cover a building in a non fire retardant cladding, then it catches fire on a summers night, when most windows are open, no amount of internal fire breaks are going to stop it. Add to that, people leaving their flats (not criticising) maybe leaving fire doors open in their panic and you have a recipe for disaster, not envisaged by the original design and plan for fire. Has austerity actually got anything to do with this? The building has been refurbished at a substantial cost, no idea why sprinklers weren't fitted, maybe cost, maybe just because the regs didn't require it. Surely fire doors should be self closing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 16, 2017 Report Share Posted June 16, 2017 8 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said: I'm not a civil Engineer, but the original design must have met the existing standards, I can only speculate, but if you cover a building in a non fire retardant cladding, then it catches fire on a summers night, when most windows are open, no amount of internal fire breaks are going to stop it. Add to that, people leaving their flats (not criticising) maybe leaving fire doors open in their panic and you have a recipe for disaster, not envisaged by the original design and plan for fire. Has austerity actually got anything to do with this? The building has been refurbished at a substantial cost, no idea why sprinklers weren't fitted, maybe cost, maybe just because the regs didn't require it. I'm no expert but I've seen some of our clients quoted in national papers who are fire specialists stating that sprinklers wouldn't have stopped that and typically alarms would have only been triggered by heat not smoke - i.e. when its too late. Without a doubt though something caused that cladding to go up in a matter of minutes be it combination of the insulation behind it or as you say factors such as increased air flow etc. Think we had quite a few windy days at start of the week, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidercity1987 Posted June 16, 2017 Report Share Posted June 16, 2017 Seems a bit of a coincidence that within days of the third terrorist attack this year, a flat full of foreigners and immigrants (I imagine a significant minority being Muslim and certainly barely any white British) goes up in flames... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted June 16, 2017 Report Share Posted June 16, 2017 14 minutes ago, BigTone said: Indeed, but my point here is that more often than not it's the Contractor cutting the corners with inferior materials and screwing their own subbies. They will then happily lie in order to win the work. the fact the cladding company went bankrupt the moment the job finished says that Tone, 9 minutes ago, BigTone said: I feel the same Monkeh but have great faith that the public will not let this be buried this time around. That's why may is acting the coward and refusing to act like the leader of the country she is meant to be, She can't continue in the job, she can't lead the brexit talks she is a laughing stock to the rest of the EU and will roll over to the (thats the only time I'm bringing the eu up in this thread), Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted June 16, 2017 Report Share Posted June 16, 2017 1 minute ago, cidercity1987 said: Seems a bit of a coincidence that within days of the third terrorist attack this year, a flat full of foreigners and immigrants (I imagine a significant minority being Muslim and certainly barely any white British) goes up in flames... thats all it is, a coincidence and you shouldn't even link the two, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumRed Posted June 16, 2017 Report Share Posted June 16, 2017 My god, The Sun, how can anyone still buy it? ffs bunch of absolute lady gardens. horrendous behaviour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted June 16, 2017 Report Share Posted June 16, 2017 7 minutes ago, Monkeh said: the fact the cladding company went bankrupt the moment the job finished says that Tone, That's why may is acting the coward and refusing to act like the leader of the country she is meant to be, She can't continue in the job, she can't lead the brexit talks she is a laughing stock to the rest of the EU and will roll over to the (thats the only time I'm bringing the eu up in this thread), I'm a Tory supporter Monkeh but I will happily say that Mrs May disgusts me and has done long before this weeks events. She is a liability to this country who thinks only of her own political skin. Last time for me in this thread also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Maesknoll Red Posted June 16, 2017 Admin Report Share Posted June 16, 2017 13 minutes ago, cheshire_red said: Surely fire doors should be self closing? Not the flat front doors, at least when my Grandparents lived in a tower block their front door wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted June 16, 2017 Report Share Posted June 16, 2017 18 hours ago, Spoons said: A £9.2 million pound re development of the tower block that didn't include a sprinkler system that would cost £1,200 per flat. The same price that Sheffield council paid for all of their tower blocks undergoing the same re developments. I can't imagine the millionaires who live in south Kensington not having a sprinkler system in their blocks? Serious questions to be answered. There's one rule for the poor and no rules whatsoever for the rich . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard Posted June 16, 2017 Report Share Posted June 16, 2017 43 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said: I'm not a civil Engineer, but the original design must have met the existing standards, I can only speculate, but if you cover a building in a non fire retardant cladding, then it catches fire on a summers night, when most windows are open, no amount of internal fire breaks are going to stop it. Add to that, people leaving their flats (not criticising) maybe leaving fire doors open in their panic and you have a recipe for disaster, not envisaged by the original design and plan for fire. Has austerity actually got anything to do with this? The building has been refurbished at a substantial cost, no idea why sprinklers weren't fitted, maybe cost, maybe just because the regs didn't require it. This is what will change after this. It has to. No building has ever had such a catastrophic fire that had sprinklers fitted.Anywhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterbournered Posted June 16, 2017 Report Share Posted June 16, 2017 14 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said: Not the flat front doors, at least when my Grandparents lived in a tower block their front door wasn't. I'm not 100% on this but we've just finished fitting and checking on compartmentions of flats in and around Bristol for the Council. On all high rise flats where the front doors are opening into an enclosed hall I've found all to be fitted with overhead door closers, as are all Communal doors. But on the high rise where the front doors are opening onto a outside walkway don't have a closer fitted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted June 16, 2017 Report Share Posted June 16, 2017 15 minutes ago, The Bard said: This is what will change after this. It has to. No building has ever had such a catastrophic fire that had sprinklers fitted.Anywhere Once again in many French hi rise buildings on the last floor you will find a swimming pool and this is, in fact, a reserve of water to release into the building in case of fire . The fact that residents can swim in it is a pleasant double usage. Simple idea . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted June 16, 2017 Report Share Posted June 16, 2017 Nice to hear that The Queen and Prince William can visit the residents when Mrs May can't because she has "security reasons". Totally loathsome woman. Do us all a favour and bugger off abroad and don't show you face again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.