The cheek of Flint...

[downendcity]

29 minutes ago, 29AR said:

When John Terry was moving to Villa it was clear that one of their defenders was going to move on. Now perhaps Baker instigated trying to come back here, maybe he was offered to us... but your analysis misses one key option:

LJ asked would he like £2m in the bank and replace Flint with Baker. Not aimed at you because I think you would be consistent, but there are a number of posters I am giggling at thinking hmmm I wonder if Villa bid £2m plus Baker for Flint and LJ turned it down just how similarly they'd be criticising him.

If Flint really, really was all that, all I want to add is his agent (for whatever cause) has clearly been touting him to clubs. And the ones that bite are clubs that are run as a shambles off the field and both relics of what they once were, one of which finished below us with lesser average attendances and we even had a chance to relegate them. Sorry, but to me that speaks absolute volumes. I personally think Flint is incredibly overrated here.

I think that Flint is highly rated as he represents the no nonsense, physical type of defender that many of us remember from our youth, and many fans identify with as the "get stuck in" player that typifies commitment, a factor that has been sadly lacking in a number of player in recent years.We see him as a rock in our defence, especially during the last 2 seasons when we have often been playing backs to the wall and fighting off relegation.

However, looking at him as an individual player, might we be missing the bigger picture. Our defence has been found wanting on to many occasions over the last couple of seasons and Flint has been a consistent and integral part of that defence. Could just be that while Flint might be a giant in every sense of the word,  the problem could be pairing anyone else with Flint and central defence might be improved with a completely different partnership?

On talent alone, how many could see us being a better team by not playing Tomlin, but that is what happened and perhaps it could be the case that defensively we could be better without Flint, as sacrilegious that might be for many fans? Of course, such a consideration will bring out all the anti LJ sentiment, but if we are to move forward then LJ has to sometime make tough decisions, but that are for the benefit of the team and club. I still think that one of the reasons for our problems last season was LJ's attempts to try and accommodate Tomlin by chopping and changing selections, instead of biting the bullet and playing without him, especially if LT was a disruptive influence behind the scenes.

Ultimately the only proof of what is right or best will be results on the pitch, so the season cannot start soon enough.

 

 

[downendcity]

11 minutes ago, 29AR said:

It'd be a nice outcome for our club and conversations with individuals if his head was turned by a stunner and he ended up with a dog. A lesson learned in life.

I don't begrudge Flint the chance to improve his career and financial future and hope that of he achieves that end that the club does well financially.

I have no desire to see him "punished" by ending up at a "dog", as you put it, but think that many of LJ's detractors are presenting the situation as Flint being hard done by, when I don't think that is the case, but stand to be proved wrong if that is the case.

[downendcity]

7 minutes ago, Red_Wizard said:

I'm not going into full debate here, as it will turn out into an argument.

I've heard rumours from both sides, and what @RedM was told by Flint may actually be the truth.

Think about it, two players had bids from Birmingham? How come only one player apparently has had their head turned but not the other?

Was Baker signed to prepare for Flints departure? Or was he signed to try to push Flint out?

 

I think the answer is yes Wizard !

 

[downendcity]

9 minutes ago, Red_Wizard said:

I'm not going into full debate here, as it will turn out into an argument.

I've heard rumours from both sides, and what @RedM was told by Flint may actually be the truth.

Think about it, two players had bids from Birmingham? How come only one player apparently has had their head turned but not the other?

Was Baker signed to prepare for Flints departure? Or was he signed to try to push Flint out?

As I said, I've heard two different stories regarding the Flint saga.

As I've  said on another post, just because Birmingham have bid for Flint, doesn't mean they are the club that "turned his head". They are free to make a bid for any player at any time and in this case if they see Flint and Bryan as players thane need and want then they can bid for them. 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, downendcity said:

I don't begrudge Flint the chance to improve his career and financial future and hope that of he achieves that end that the club does well financially.

I have no desire to see him "punished" by ending up at a "dog", as you put it, but think that many of LJ's detractors are presenting the situation as Flint being hard done by, when I don't think that is the case, but stand to be proved wrong if that is the case.

I also like Flint and it's not that I have a desire to see him punished. What I meant to say (although I can see I put it very badly) is if his agent promised him the world and delivered Birmingham City it might stop a few more players in their tracks before being so influenced with false dawns. His misfortune could be an aid to us in future conversations. It's a bit like the Basso situation; liked him and had no desire to see him punished... but I think some footballers need a better self awareness of how good they actually are, what their attributes actually are and what is realistic for their career.

If we are to believe the story that his agent told the club in the close summer Flint wanted to explore options surely someone should have sat him down and said forget the smoke your agent has blown up your backside, Tammy Abraham was the stand out player in the whole of the championship last season and his next move is being talked in terms of Swansea City or newly promoted teams. And that was the singular stand out player. Don't believe in false dawns.

[Red Rag]

My reading of it is Flint has gobbed off and believes his worth to Bristol City is far greater than the club does. Him and his agent have backed themselves into a corner which they may now regret. Lets face it he does not come across as the brightest bulb in the room. Club always comes first always. Players are just disposable flesh inserts. 

[Welcome To The Jungle]

So no one on here has gone for a job interview while still with another employer then? Flint has given us 100% for 4 years, and despite a dodgy start has matured into a great player who has provided us with some great moments. The opportunity to play for some great managers has come up (lets face it would you rather play for LJ or Harry?) and increase his wage. Compare this to Micky Naynard's transfer and you'll see that this isn't that bad. 

[Fiale]

He has a young family and this is the twilight of his playing career so who can blame him for wanting that final cash pot - a few million in singing fees and wages in the Flint bank to secure his families future. He has been great value for us and given his all, so no hard feelings if he feels it's time to move on.

[downendcity]

5 minutes ago, 29AR said:

I also like Flint and it's not that I have a desire to see him punished. What I meant to say (although I can see I put it very badly) is if his agent promised him the world and delivered Birmingham City it might stop a few more players in their tracks before being so influenced with false dawns. His misfortune could be an aid to us in future conversations. It's a bit like the Basso situation; liked him and had no desire to see him punished... but I think some footballers need a better self awareness of how good they actually are, what their attributes actually are and what is realistic for their career.

If we are to believe the story that his agent told the club in the close summer Flint wanted to explore options surely someone should have sat him down and said forget the smoke your agent has blown up your backside, Tammy Abraham was the stand out player in the whole of the championship last season and his next move is being talked in terms of Swansea City or newly promoted teams. And that was the singular stand out player. Don't believe in false dawns.

Unfortunately these days if it comes down to a question of what they are being told by their club and what they are being told by their agent, I think most players will, go with what their agents says.

Agent make the most money when a player moves, so the agent will sell a potential move big time. With the best will in the world if you are on say £10,000 per week and the agent says club A will give you £20,000 and a decent signing on fee, it's not a tough sell to a young guy looking at a career that will not go much beyond 32/33.

A club suggesting that the agent is a bit of a rogue and might not be completely honest with you would probably get the player's back up even more as most will have been with the agent far longer than they've been with the club.

 

 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

So no one on here has gone for a job interview while still with another employer then? Flint has given us 100% for 4 years, and despite a dodgy start has matured into a great player who has provided us with some great moments. The opportunity to play for some great managers has come up (lets face it would you rather play for LJ or Harry?) and increase his wage. Compare this to Micky Naynard's transfer and you'll see that this isn't that bad. 

I didn't get a loyalty bonus and signing on fee from my employer. I also didn't sign a fixed term contract for the next 5 years, I just agreed to give x months notice. 

[Wheatus is back]

16 hours ago, Benni said:

It is amazing how Lee Johnson has managed to get supporters against Aden Flint. LJ's quote today is simply pathetic and an attack on a player who has always given 100% for the club. 

How has he attacked Flint ?  He's just saying what most managers don't have the bottle to say , and I'm not a Johnson fan either .

[Nibor]

22 minutes ago, Wheatus is back said:

How has he attacked Flint ?  He's just saying what most managers don't have the bottle to say , and I'm not a Johnson fan either .

It's not really an attack but what he should have said was "Aden's an important Bristol City player who signed a new contract in December, he has played very well for us and long may it continue".  We might like getting information but the right approach is not to discuss these things until they're done.  This thread is a perfect example of why.

[Cowshed]

26 minutes ago, Wheatus is back said:

How has he attacked Flint ?  He's just saying what most managers don't have the bottle to say , and I'm not a Johnson fan either .

Lee Johnsons opinion could be perceived as undermining to a player who has been wholly determined and supportive in his performance on the pitch.  Mr Johnson has chose to introduce a negative into that picture..

The benefits of the psychology there look doubtful, or negative.   

[SARJ]

17 hours ago, EmersonsRed said:

"He's a good lad, Aden - he's definitely had his head turned, there's no question of a doubt about that,"

 

A quote from LJ. Surely a ******* joke? I'm no fan of his as I've made very clear over the past 4 years, but having your head turned by Birmingham? They've 12 months until they are in turmoil again after Harry sacks it realising he can't get promoted by spending money easily...

 

Bye Flint, cheers for your goals in league one... I'll drop you there if needed.

Why does everyone think Footballers are loyal. They aren't and shouldn't answer to anyone for it. Football is their career and they have to make as much money as they can, whilst they can, especially if they have kids and family to provide for also.

If Flint can earn more money elsewhere, even at a rival club, fair play, don't begrudge him going at all.

We all work; if another company came in for you and offered better pay and bonuses of course you'd leave.

[BRISTOL86]

1 hour ago, Jack Dawe said:

One answer to this question might be Johnson's failure to recruit anyone better, or even as good as Flint. His two defensive incomings last summer - Magnússon and Matthews - were not a success. Bailey Wright looks more like it, although with the ball at his feet, he didn't look any more comfortable than Flint, to me.

 

Wouldnt that just make it even more unlikely that LJ wants rid of him? 

[LondonBristolian]

2 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Good post as normal LB

Agree with your last para too but pulling myself aside from any single incident / rumour or anything else , it's the number of these things re players, and their regularity , that concerns me

Add to that some other events , Pelling , Burt , Taylor , Pembo , Wilbs ....

The ship never seems so steady as we are led to believe (IMHO)

Indeed. Not so convinced that the Wilbs situation - whatever it is - is part of this but there have clearly been some issues around the club for a long time with people either not doing what they were employed to do or pulling in the wrong direction. What we do not know - and time alone will tell - is whether the events of the last two years has been a case of moving on people who were - inadvertently or otherwise - becoming obstacles to us reaching our potential or us betting on the wrong horse yet again. I certainly believe internal power struggles were a factor in our difficulties last season but I suspect different people have different interpretations of why that occurred and, whilst we get plenty of people coming here to tell us what they think but ultimately there are two basic explanations:

1. LJ has come in, tried to change the culture for no good reason and is alienating staff and players at the club who would rather things were how they were before.

2. LJ has come in, tried to change a culture that was not going to work in the long term, and is alienating staff and players who would rather things were how they were before.

whichever is true, the rumbles of the disgruntled who are 'in the know' would be the same. Time alone will tell us if LJ's methods work. Last season I would have got rid at certain points but he is here and managing us so I hope it is the latter and not the former. But we shall see.

[BobBobSuperBob]

6 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Indeed. Not so convinced that the Wilbs situation - whatever it is - is part of this but there have clearly been some issues around the club for a long time with people either not doing what they were employed to do or pulling in the wrong direction. What we do not know - and time alone will tell - is whether the events of the last two years has been a case of moving on people who were - inadvertently or otherwise - becoming obstacles to us reaching our potential or us betting on the wrong horse yet again. I certainly believe internal power struggles were a factor in our difficulties last season but I suspect different people have different interpretations of why that occurred and, whilst we get plenty of people coming here to tell us what they think but ultimately there are two basic explanations:

1. LJ has come in, tried to change the culture for no good reason and is alienating staff and players at the club who would rather things were how they were before.

2. LJ has come in, tried to change a culture that was not going to work in the long term, and is alienating staff and players who would rather things were how they were before.

whichever is true, the rumbles of the disgruntled who are 'in the know' would be the same. Time alone will tell us if LJ's methods work. Last season I would have got rid at certain points but he is here and managing us so I hope it is the latter and not the former. But we shall see.

Good post again 

Only thing I'd add is I'm Not sure the two scenarios are the only ones and I suspect A N Other or Others may be having a major input in decisions and other matters

Think Lee continues to have some worrying traits but not sure all the turmoil lies at his door 

[Red Army 87]

34 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Good post again 

Only thing I'd add is I'm Not sure the two scenarios are the only ones and I suspect A N Other or Others may be having a major input in decisions and other matters

Think Lee continues to have some worrying traits but not sure all the turmoil lies at his door 

Your last sentence is the reason I think LJ is still here. I still question how much say he has in all of our transfer activity.

[shelts]

13 hours ago, CotswoldRed said:

Player unsettled. 100% committed? 

Which one is it? 

100% on the pitch . Course he wants to go it's a no brainier 

[shelts]

13 hours ago, robinreliant said:

With respect If we keep thinking that, we are never going to improve are we. Would love to hear SL's reply.

I get yer point but we will always sell. SL could splash the cash but goes a different way . I respect that . He's still spent a fair bit 

[Kid in the Riot]

20 minutes ago, Red Army 87 said:

Your last sentence is the reason I think LJ is still here. I still question how much say he has in all of our transfer activity.

Given that even a pig-headed, control-freak of a manager like Cotterill didn't have full control over transfers then it's safe to assume that a timid, yes-man and friend of the owners is pretty unlikely to have much say in who goes or who stays.

[exAtyeoMax]

1 hour ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Good post again 

Only thing I'd add is I'm Not sure the two scenarios are the only ones and I suspect A N Other or Others may be having a major input in decisions and other matters

Think Lee continues to have some worrying traits but not sure all the turmoil lies at his door 

we mustn't forget about Mark Ashton…he's supposed to be in charge.

[RedM]

2 hours ago, Fiale said:

He has a young family and this is the twilight of his playing career so who can blame him for wanting that final cash pot - a few million in singing fees and wages in the Flint bank to secure his families future. He has been great value for us and given his all, so no hard feelings if he feels it's time to move on.

I think this will be news to Flint, know something he doesn't?! 

[Natchfever]

18 hours ago, EmersonsRed said:

"He's a good lad, Aden - he's definitely had his head turned, there's no question of a doubt about that,"

 

A quote from LJ. Surely a ******* joke? I'm no fan of his as I've made very clear over the past 4 years, but having your head turned by Birmingham? They've 12 months until they are in turmoil again after Harry sacks it realising he can't get promoted by spending money easily...

 

Bye Flint, cheers for your goals in league one... I'll drop you there if needed.

Short career, massive payrise, agent gets a cut for doing  his job.

Who wouldn't have their head turned in Flints position ?

Doesn't really matter where Brum end up, but I have a feeling they might  offer a better chance of promotion.

[Natchfever]

3 hours ago, AshtonGreat said:

Oh give over. It grates when people say stuff like that. Even moderately paid Championship players can earn £500,000 in one year – it would take me 20 years to earn that. So cry me a river, you overpaid primadonnas

I doubt Flint cares how much you or me earn. If he is on £500,000 per year, he will be dead keen to double it like the vast majority of everyone else would.

[Phileas Fogg]

3 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

I doubt Flint cares how much you or me earn. If he is on £500,000 per year, he will be dead keen to double it like the vast majority of everyone else would.

Exactly; these guys aren't fans of the club. Flint is in the peak of his powers and these are probably his maximum earning years. Of course he's going to want to maximise them.

He's from a working class family and if he's bringing in 7 figures a year he can change the lives of his friends and family for years. It's obvious he'd fancy a move.

[BobBobSuperBob]

21 minutes ago, RedM said:

I think this will be news to Flint, know something he doesn't?! 

 

[Red Army 87]

49 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Given that even a pig-headed, control-freak of a manager like Cotterill didn't have full control over transfers then it's safe to assume that a timid, yes-man and friend of the owners is pretty unlikely to have much say in who goes or who stays.

Or who comes in. I don't know what it is, but I still don't think he wanted Tomlin here after his loan.

[AshtonGreat]

1 hour ago, Loon plage said:

I doubt Flint cares how much you or me earn. If he is on £500,000 per year, he will be dead keen to double it like the vast majority of everyone else would.

That's not the point I was making. I was scoffing at any sympathy for players because they only have a short career. That was a valid point in the 70s and 80s, but not now.

[SARJ]

1 hour ago, AshtonGreat said:

That's not the point I was making. I was scoffing at any sympathy for players because they only have a short career. That was a valid point in the 70s and 80s, but not now.

Hardly. If Flint is still playing high standard football when he's 38 I'll be impressed. And someone like Flint is hardly going to be a television pundit. Bloke needs to get as much as possible whilst he can.