Dilemma ?

[old_eastender]

8 minutes ago, Taxi for Johnson said:

I would not be in too much of a hurry to judge our league form by the brilliant cup result last night.

This cup throws up some big upsets as you can question the number of changes most teams make - including ourselves.

Taking nothing away from the players who performed so well (yes they deserve full credit), do we want LJ to be the tickerman again.

I, for one, am sure Lee knows his strongest eleven.

 

tfj   

Agree should not too carried away with the cup upset, as pleasing as it was.

As for LJ knowing his strongest eleven -  I very much doubt it.

Given Eliasson, COD & Kelly played the full game, and Hinds most of it, cannot see any them getting anything more than a place on the bench.

It will be interesting to see if LJ keeps faith with the underperforming Paterson and Diedhou.

 

[bpexile]

11 minutes ago, CiderCraig said:

Freddie Flint stone?

Flint Eastwood, sorry 

[...]

4 minutes ago, old_eastender said:

Agree should not too carried away with the cup upset, as pleasing as it was.

As for LJ knowing his strongest eleven -  I very much doubt it.

Given Eliasson, COD & Kelly played the full game, and Hinds most of it, cannot see any them getting anything more than a place on the bench.

It will be interesting to see if LJ keeps faith with the underperforming Paterson and Diedhou.

 

Word of warning - don't criticise LJ on here as the Happy Clappers are everywhere.

I just got Happy Clapped for defending someones right to an opinion.

Just a friendly warning.

(He got me right across the back of the legs - really stings).

 

tfj  

[Hampshire reds]

I think flint will be gone by Friday.  After last night more bids will come in. Birmingham again.  don't rule Leeds out of signing big aden. Imo

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

19 minutes ago, Taxi for Johnson said:

I would not be in too much of a hurry to judge our league form by the brilliant cup result last night.

This cup throws up some big upsets as you can question the number of changes most teams make - including ourselves.

Taking nothing away from the players who performed so well (yes they deserve full credit), do we want LJ to be the tickerman again.

I, for one, am sure Lee knows his strongest eleven.

 

tfj   

Can't resist, can you?

Seriously, does any manager know his 'strongest eleven'?  It's a squad game these days and it isn't necessarily the strongest eleven you want, but the right eleven on the day.   I don't see any team in the Premiership with an eleven that picks itself on a Saturday, and the clubs closest to that situation are probably the ones with the weakest squads.  

[Grey Fox]

Looks like our development behind the scenes is pretty good, and that the squad will progress throughout the season as different players compete for those cherished starting positions. Excellent job by all of our management team

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

4 minutes ago, Taxi for Johnson said:

Word of warning - don't criticise LJ on here as the Happy Clappers are everywhere.

I just got Happy Clapped for defending someones right to an opinion.

Just a friendly warning.

(He got me right across the back of the legs - really stings).

 

tfj  

And then you spoil it all with that sort of comment.  You have to learn to take it as well as dish it out you know.  Happy Clappers = City supporters.

[spudski]

This is one of the problems, with the extreme pressure of the Championship to win points.

It, imo, often stifles the development of young naturally gifted talent.

Yesterday, we had a prime example, of a team playing with no pressure to win points and playing as underdogs. The young lads had nothing to lose.

They didn't want to let themselves down, played to a game plan, realised they were doing ok, grew in confidence and then just went for it.

Do that in the Championship, with the pressures...and it becomes a different ball game.

It just shows you we have gifted young players...but when will they get their chance in the league on a regular basis?

The pressures are so great to win, that they often don't, as the manager will go for 'experience'.

I'm really hoping, this part of our 'blueprint' is adhered to, and that we start to play these gifted youngsters, and get them through quicker.

 

What I do know...is that we will return to playing the more experienced players, we will lose some games and have a bad performance, and then last nights performance will be rolled out as an example 'of why aren't we playing the kids, they are good enough'....

....it's just not as simple as that....who'd be a manager.

[...]

9 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

And then you spoil it all with that sort of comment.  You have to learn to take it as well as dish it out you know.  Happy Clappers = City supporters.

Have you ever been accused of being 'narrow minded'?

 

tfj  

[GrahamC]

Forget Friday's game for a minute, I think last night's result is even more likely to influence what we do in the rest of the transfer window.

With the exception of a goalkeeper, I think this might well demonstrate to LJ that everywhere else in the squad we have strength in depth now, you can argue a bit about the quality, but certainly not with the numbers.

We changed our entire back four last night, still didn't include Taylor Moore at all, have Golbourne and Hegeler too (who played CM), so have plenty of defensive options..

In midfield O'Neil is now becoming involved, so is an alternative to Pack or Smith, plus as mentioned before, Hegeler. I know that some want a more attacking option here but I think we'd have to move one of these four on in order to bring one in.

Eliasson and O'Dowda are extra options out wide and with Hinds' emergence, Woodrow available for league games and Taylor now fit enough to be a sub, we have much more forward cover for Diedhiou and Reid.

This brings me back to the goalkeeper, Frankie has started very, very well, but the fact that LJ hasn't used Lucic in either cup game (especially Plymouth) would suggest that he is not rated, it is a long season and FF is going to miss a few games through injury or lose form at some point, so an experienced alternative makes a lot of sense.

Doubt he has any future with us, but good to see Arnie Garita back last night, scoring one and having another disallowed for the U23s v Forest, like De Girolamo and probably Moore, I expect that he'll be off on loan in the next week.

 

[tinman85]

31 minutes ago, old_eastender said:

Agree should not too carried away with the cup upset, as pleasing as it was.

As for LJ knowing his strongest eleven -  I very much doubt it.

Given Eliasson, COD & Kelly played the full game, and Hinds most of it, cannot see any them getting anything more than a place on the bench.

It will be interesting to see if LJ keeps faith with the underperforming Paterson and Diedhou.

 

Johnson needs to mix it up. The team that played v Brentford and Millwall do not deserve to start again after last night. Certainly would start O'Neil ahead of Pack or Smith. Start with the pace of Eliasson out wide and tempted to also drop Diedhiou who quite frankly is looking more lost and ineffective by the minute. Would keep the same back 4 from Millwall. 

[spudski]

8 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Forget Friday's game for a minute, I think last night's result is even more likely to influence what we do in the rest of the transfer window.

With the exception of a goalkeeper, I think this might well demonstrate to LJ that everywhere else in the squad we have strength in depth now, you can argue a bit about the quality, but certainly not with the numbers.

We changed our entire back four last night, still didn't include Taylor Moore at all, have Golbourne and Hegeler too (who played CM), so have plenty of defensive options..

In midfield O'Neil is now becoming involved, so is an alternative to Pack or Smith, plus as mentioned before, Hegeler. I know that some want a more attacking option here but I think we'd have to move one of these four on in order to bring one in.

Eliasson and O'Dowda are extra options out wide and with Hinds' emergence, Woodrow available for league games and Taylor now fit enough to be a sub, we have much more forward cover for Diedhiou and Reid.

This brings me back to the goalkeeper, Frankie has started very, very well, but the fact that LJ hasn't used Lucic in either cup game (especially Plymouth) would suggest that he is not rated, it is a long season and FF is going to miss a few games through injury or lose form at some point, so an experienced alternative makes a lot of sense.

Doubt he has any future with us, but good to see Arnie Garita back last night, scoring one and having another disallowed for the U23s v Forest, like De Girolamo and probably Moore, I expect that he'll be off on loan in the next week.

 

I agree with a lot of that Graham, although I still have reservations about the quality of our CM for the duration of a season.

We imo, need to spend big on a quality Central Midfielder. It would certainly enhance our team, and imo, the CM is our weakest part.

I just hope some of our players don't hold up the progress of some of our youngsters.

Hopefully Kelly will get more starts. He for me, is our biggest prospect. Watched him a lot last season in development games, he really is a good player.

The player I fear for the most is Hinds...although I get the impression LJ really rates him. With Reid knocking them in, Taylor, Đurić coming back and Diediou and now Woodrow...he's got a lot of traffic to fight through.

[GrahamC]

33 minutes ago, spudski said:

I agree with a lot of that Graham, although I still have reservations about the quality of our CM for the duration of a season.

We imo, need to spend big on a quality Central Midfielder. It would certainly enhance our team, and imo, the CM is our weakest part.

I just hope some of our players don't hold up the progress of some of our youngsters.

Hopefully Kelly will get more starts. He for me, is our biggest prospect. Watched him a lot last season in development games, he really is a good player.

The player I fear for the most is Hinds...although I get the impression LJ really rates him. With Reid knocking them in, Taylor, Đurić coming back and Diediou and now Woodrow...he's got a lot of traffic to fight through.

Agree about central midfield, I just think that we have loaded our wage bill with 4 senior players of a very similar type so unless we do move on one of them or Flint or Magnússon go (who, let's face it, would not need replacing) we are higher in numbers there.

As for Kelly, this is clearly why LJ has made it obvious that Golbourne is surplus to requirements. It would be good if at least to start, he was a sub to give him some encouragement.

As for Hinds, Reid's sensational form aside, if I was him I wouldn't worry, he has already matched Taylor's total goals for us in just two starts and whilst I was pleased we added Woodrow, he will feel that he is his equal.

The big issue is whether with so many returning we consider loaning him out, I really do hope not and cope with Taylor or Woodrow falling behind him in the pecking order.

[redcherryberry]

Go out & splash the cash on Jackson Irvine, our squad will be pretty much complete then. 

[spudski]

When we bought Baker...I was adamant a deal had been done for Flint or someone else.

Hate it when money/wages/ffp gets tied up with players who are now surplus to requirements.

2 minutes ago, redcherryberry said:

Go out & splash the cash on Jackson Irvine, our squad will be pretty much complete then. 

Suppose it depends on how much we've got left in the budget for wages etc matey.

[Nibor]

12 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Agree about central midfield, I just think that we have loaded our wage bill with 4 senior players of a very similar type so unless we do move on one of them or Flint or Magnússon go (who, let's face it, would not need replacing) we are higher in numbers there.

As for Kelly, this is clearly why LJ has made it obvious that Golbourne is surplus to requirements. It would be good if at least to start, he was a sub to give him some encouragement.

As for Hinds, Reid's sensational form aside, if I was him I wouldn't worry, he has already matched Taylor's total goals for us in just two starts and whilst I was pleased we added Woodrow, he will feel that he is his equal.

The big issue is whether with so many returning we consider loaning him out, I really do hope not and cope with Taylor or Woodrow falling behind him in the pecking order.

I expect Flint will be off, and probably Golbourne too if only on loan since he's in his last year and will need to secure a contract for next season.  I don't think Magnússon will be going just yet - perhaps next summer if he hasn't played enough.

The thing is with central midfield it's odds on that O'Neill will be unavailable for a stretch and LJ doesn't seem to rate Hegeler, so I do think we need someone there.  Maybe that's an area we can get some quality in on loan without spending vast amounts.

When Đurić is fit we have a couple too many strikers if Hinds is seriously in the mix and Reid's staying there, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Hinds go to league one until Xmas once the window opens for short loans (a week into September is it?).  

For the first time in a long time we seem to be well covered down the left and ok down the right.

[spudski]

34 minutes ago, Nibor said:

I expect Flint will be off, and probably Golbourne too if only on loan since he's in his last year and will need to secure a contract for next season.  I don't think Magnússon will be going just yet - perhaps next summer if he hasn't played enough.

The thing is with central midfield it's odds on that O'Neill will be unavailable for a stretch and LJ doesn't seem to rate Hegeler, so I do think we need someone there.  Maybe that's an area we can get some quality in on loan without spending vast amounts.

When Đurić is fit we have a couple too many strikers if Hinds is seriously in the mix and Reid's staying there, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Hinds go to league one until Xmas once the window opens for short loans (a week into September is it?).  

For the first time in a long time we seem to be well covered down the left and ok down the right.

Didn't LJ mention at the end of last season, that he was going to build the team around Hegeler? I'm positive he did.

[tinman85]

14 minutes ago, spudski said:

Didn't LJ mention at the end of last season, that he was going to build the team around Hegeler? I'm positive he did.

Yes he did. He says a lot of things then drops them. 

[pillred]

2 hours ago, spudski said:

This is one of the problems, with the extreme pressure of the Championship to win points.

It, imo, often stifles the development of young naturally gifted talent.

Yesterday, we had a prime example, of a team playing with no pressure to win points and playing as underdogs. The young lads had nothing to lose.

They didn't want to let themselves down, played to a game plan, realised they were doing ok, grew in confidence and then just went for it.

Do that in the Championship, with the pressures...and it becomes a different ball game.

It just shows you we have gifted young players...but when will they get their chance in the league on a regular basis?

The pressures are so great to win, that they often don't, as the manager will go for 'experience'.

I'm really hoping, this part of our 'blueprint' is adhered to, and that we start to play these gifted youngsters, and get them through quicker.

 

What I do know...is that we will return to playing the more experienced players, we will lose some games and have a bad performance, and then last nights performance will be rolled out as an example 'of why aren't we playing the kids, they are good enough'....

....it's just not as simple as that....who'd be a manager.

on £10.000 a week most of us I'd say. 

[JamesBCFC]

9 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Don't think it's Gonna be the popular view but - same side from Wall for me

but you make it clear that there are 4 or 5 pushing for places

Challenge them to keep their place whilst revving up the youngsters, encouraging and praising , ready to go

The only one I'd consider at this stage would be LK coming in with JB in front of him (Looks like Kelly could also play left midfield - good athlete)

 

Havent seen lots of Kelly. But get the impression that he is a similar style player to Bryan (when Bryan is at LB) but has obviously spent more time developing as a defender.

Not seen enough to really judge his potential, but maybe one day a better LB than Bryan perhaps?

[BobBobSuperBob]

8 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Havent seen lots of Kelly. But get the impression that he is a similar style player to Bryan (when Bryan is at LB) but has obviously spent more time developing as a defender.

Not seen enough to really judge his potential, but maybe one day a better LB than Bryan perhaps?

The bits I've seen of him James he just looks the part , v good athlete , good physique , good pace ,comfortable on ball 

Its real left field but why I said he looks like he'd be comfortable playing at Left Back , LWB or even left side of midfield

The drilled cross across the six yard box for BRs goal was as good as Hinds strike IMO - top technique

Also , clearly a really nice , decent , grounded, sensible lad (From his I/v with Twentyman last season)

Early days but a real exciting prospect- looks like he can go further than maybe we can take him but let's hope he forms part of a cracking side here 

 

Looked like the legs and pace of him, Hinds , COD , Eliasson caused some real,problems last night 

[MarkRed!]

I think the result was just what was needed to remind our first 11 that there is competition. Personally felt that having natural wide players gave us better balance and the young players all did very well. In particular Hinds and Kelly. O'Dowda and Eliason also did well. In reality, I cant see those players going straight into the 11, but it is nice to see genuine competition.

[JamesBCFC]

4 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

The bits I've seen of him James he just looks the part , v good athlete , good physique , good pace ,comfortable on ball 

Its real left field but why I said he looks like he'd be comfortable playing at Left Back , LWB or even left side of midfield

The drilled cross across the six yard box for BRs goal was as good as Hinds strike IMO - top technique

Also , clearly a really nice , decent , grounded, sensible lad (From his I/v with Twentyman last season)

Early days but a real exciting prospect- looks like he can go further than maybe we can take him but let's hope he forms part of a cracking side here 

 

Looked like the legs and pace of him, Hinds , COD , Eliasson caused some real,problems last night 

I think we have more pace than people think too.

I know he is a new signing, but Eliasson looked pretty pacey in the highlights- left a defender in the dust a few times.

Diedhiou I think is JET like. Not as a player, style wise. But that he can go quicker than everyone thinks. Problem being with his build it is difficult for this sprinting to happen regularly in a game, but he can run at a lower pace and conserve his energy better.

Not sure I explained that well. But if you see the highlights of the 2-1 win over Palace under SOD, JET races past a few defenders, starting yards behind them and comfortably gets to the ball before them- but such a run was a rarity and I think thats partly due to his build.

[spudski]

1 hour ago, tinman85 said:

Yes he did. He says a lot of things then drops them. 

I think a lot of it get misinterpreted by the press tbh. Out of context...bits missed out etc.

[JamesBCFC]

18 minutes ago, spudski said:

I think a lot of it get misinterpreted by the press tbh. Out of context...bits missed out etc.

Spud.

I may have missed it, and this may not be the right thread for it.

In another post a few days ago (maybe last week) you expressed a few concerns (maybe wrong word) about Mark Ashton. Think your words were about "upgrading" on him.

I know he wasnt liked at Watford, but imo he has done a good job while here, would you be able to elaborate on the concerns at all?

[exAtyeoMax]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

Didn't LJ mention at the end of last season, that he was going to build the team around Hegeler? I'm positive he did.

he said it about Tommo, at one point…

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, Nibor said:

I expect Flint will be off, and probably Golbourne too if only on loan since he's in his last year and will need to secure a contract for next season.  I don't think Magnússon will be going just yet - perhaps next summer if he hasn't played enough.

The thing is with central midfield it's odds on that O'Neill will be unavailable for a stretch and LJ doesn't seem to rate Hegeler, so I do think we need someone there.  Maybe that's an area we can get some quality in on loan without spending vast amounts.

When Đurić is fit we have a couple too many strikers if Hinds is seriously in the mix and Reid's staying there, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Hinds go to league one until Xmas once the window opens for short loans (a week into September is it?).  

For the first time in a long time we seem to be well covered down the left and ok down the right.

There is no short term loans option in the EFL anymore. It went at start of 16/17 season. 

It really stifles opportunities to give someone a month or two/three then bring them back. 

[Nibor]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

There is no short term loans option in the EFL anymore. It went at start of 16/17 season. 

It really stifles opportunities to give someone a month or two/three then bring them back. 

Yeah looking it up there's no loans allowed outside the transfer windows - effectively they are one and the same window now, but we could loan him out before then with a recall clause for January.  No shorter than that though.

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, Nibor said:

Yeah looking it up there's no loans allowed outside the transfer windows - effectively they are one and the same window now, but we could loan him out before then with a recall clause for January.  No shorter than that though.

Correct. 

[Robbored]

I haven't scrolled thru this thread but clearly all thre goalscorers last night are youngsters as is O'Dowda who had an assist.

No doubt at all that Hinds and Eliasson will have impressed LJ  in a tough game but will he consider either of them ready for the Championship starting 11 yet? 

I suspect he won't. He may feel it's too big a risk. Eliasson has been in the first team squad but not Hinds as yet.

Be interesting to see the squad for the Villa game on Friday.