Would City games sell out with cheaper prices?

[wendyredredrobin]

How successful has the bring a friend scheme been? I think I used it a couple of times last season.  Perhaps that could be expanded to tempt a few more through the gates.

Our kids rates are pretty good, but Iknow a couple of OAP's who say that their state pension won't stretch to a SC.

As I said earlier, an incentive scheme along the lines of "the more often you come the less you pay" could help.

[Xiled]

1 hour ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

So first of all practically every club overseas is able to function with lower ticket prices, despite the fact that their leagues generate much less in sponsorship and TV rights. The idea that these ticket prices are necessary to run a football club of our size is nothing short of a lie. A lie that has been spoon fed to almost every English football fan since 1992. Do not believe it, it can be done.

The Tomlin point is a good one as you illustrate that with lower prices, fans would be less likely to get on players/managers backs due to lower expectations. But this need not come at the expense of success. Many clubs have been promoted to he top flight without spending. The latest example being Huddersfield, in a fairly long list that includes the likes of Blackpool and Burnley (first time round). 

Your next point about income is similar to my first paragraph, but I'd say £15 was fair POTD price, and £179 a good starting point for STs (for adults in both cases). If we were promoted we'd have so much more money so could probably do as Huddersfield have done and lower prices even further.

As for the atmosphere I see where you are coming from. The issue is that in order for these newbies to feel at home and get invested into the game, they have to come more regularly, not just once a year. Sustained lowering of prices would see this problem slowly dissipate. 

As for our fan base, we've seen steady increase that has correlated with a promotion and a new build. Happy to be proved wrong but I'll make a judgement at the end of the season after consecutive seasons at this level in a completed stadium, though STs have stayed about the same so attendances shouldn't go up or down too much. I fear we may have plateaued .That said the attendances would rise faster if we lowered prices as it widens our net in order to bring people in. 

I don't think we're a million miles away in terms of our respective opinions.

But, the fact that Bristol City make an operating loss year on year makes me believe that cheaper ticket prices would push us further into the red.  If we can average around 20,000 with current ticket prices, it be would financially risky to seek about 5,000 per home match by offering £15 POTD and £179 for a season ticket.  That would almost certainly increase our losses.  Great for the fans, but not the finances.

I agree with you that our attendances will probably plateau unless the team attain a higher league position.  But if the plateau is around 20,000 per home game, I think that's exactly where the club needs to be for Championship football.

I'm not sure it's pure "newbies" that take advantage of £10 ticket offers.  In my experience it's usually extended family and friends (basically occasional supporters).  I wouldn't turn any of them away because it's important to make the club accessible to the widest possible audience but I don't think cheap tickets are the only answer to growing the group of regular supporters.  The standard of football and issues such as transport, security and overall entertainment are at least as significant as cost.  The distinction between cost and value is important.  Something doesn't have to be cheap to be good value.  If you can promise an afternoon/evening of good football (and everything that goes with it is great) then there are more than enough people in the BS2 catchment to fill the stadium.  That's harsh for people who can't afford £30 tickets but I'm afraid that's reality.

On a personal level, I would love to pay less and I would like to see the stadium full to the rafters with genuine City supporters.  I'm not arguing to pay the same or more than I currently do (!) but realistically I think the club is actually getting ticket prices about right.  Just don't get me started on the allocation of season and POTD tickets, I have real issues with that....!

[Welcome To The Jungle]

13 minutes ago, Xiled said:

I don't think we're a million miles away in terms of our respective opinions.

But, the fact that Bristol City make an operating loss year on year makes me believe that cheaper ticket prices would push us further into the red.  If we can average around 20,000 with current ticket prices, it be would financially risky to seek about 5,000 per home match by offering £15 POTD and £179 for a season ticket.  That would almost certainly increase our losses.  Great for the fans, but not the finances.

I agree with you that our attendances will probably plateau unless the team attain a higher league position.  But if the plateau is around 20,000 per home game, I think that's exactly where the club needs to be for Championship football.

I'm not sure it's pure "newbies" that take advantage of £10 ticket offers.  In my experience it's usually extended family and friends (basically occasional supporters).  I wouldn't turn any of them away because it's important to make the club accessible to the widest possible audience but I don't think cheap tickets are the only answer to growing the group of regular supporters.  The standard of football and issues such as transport, security and overall entertainment are at least as significant as cost.  The distinction between cost and value is important.  Something doesn't have to be cheap to be good value.  If you can promise an afternoon/evening of good football (and everything that goes with it is great) then there are more than enough people in the BS2 catchment to fill the stadium.  That's harsh for people who can't afford £30 tickets but I'm afraid that's reality.

On a personal level, I would love to pay less and I would like to see the stadium full to the rafters with genuine City supporters.  I'm not arguing to pay the same or more than I currently do (!) but realistically I think the club is actually getting ticket prices about right.  Just don't get me started on the allocation of season and POTD tickets, I have real issues with that....!

We're in the red because we spend too much on both wages and transfer fees. I believe Diedhiou is the biggest transfer in English history for a club that has never had parachute payments (may be wrong but it will be close). He'll be on a few bob too. Just two years ago I'd seen City sign just three players for 7 figures. Maynard, Baldock and Trundle for a combined 4.5 million(ish). In the last two windows we've signed nine 7 figure players for a combined 21+ million based on rumoured undisclosed fees. Lots of these players will be on big money too. 

Of these players, how many are starting in Johnson's favoured team at the moment? The answer is 2. Baker and Diedhiou.

Now I will mention the elephant in the room that is Kodjia. Signed for an eventual 3.75 million and sold for 11 million + add ons.The problem is that for every Kodjia, there are Tomlins who come for three million, take huge wages then leave again. This is a high risk strategy that is a few dice rolls from disaster. 

The fact however remains that BCFC are choosing to be in the red and choosing to pay inflated agents fees and wages. We don't have to do this to compete (see Preston) or even go up (see Huddersfield). 

And as I stated in my last post, almost every other club in other countries can find a way to do it and SL is allegedly a financial genius. 

In terms of the attendance, we should be aiming for every seat to be filled every game. I'm not suggesting stupidly low prices, starting from £15 seems fair to me, as obviously the club does need money, but we shouldn't see 20k as a success and not crave more.

Of course many people who take up offers are the occasional fan, but even with them it is about building up that emotional attachment by getting them in more often. I used to take a 'United' fan on my ST when the offer was on and he just wasn't there to understand fully. The last minute winner, the drug football fans thrive off isn't at every game, and so you need to get people in to witness these moments in order for them to endure a whole season. The idea that £30 is reasonable or even acceptable in anyway is a joke and to simply pass it off as 'the way it is' is nothing short of selfish in my opinion. In addition if we accept 30, eventually that'll become 35...then 40...then before you know it you'll be complaining that you can't afford to go anymore and you'll wonder why those who can still afford it won't empathise and just pass it off as 'the way things are'. The rot has to stop now.

You talk about how realisticly City price things. Talk to football fans around the world who think that English football fans have lost any ownership of their clubs, cannot create an atmosphere, just sit and do what their told, and have lost that sense of unity of being in a club. They are so right.  That is the biggest truth. If we were an Italian club that increased their cheapest season ticket by £50 there'd have been a protest on such a scale that the club would struggle to hit four figures in attendance every week. 

[bristolcitysweden]

We will get a sell out the day we play attractive football over a period of time

[Lanterne Rouge]

6 hours ago, reddogkev said:

Very good points raised above, but I'd quickly say that a tenner would be too cheap - but absolutely nothing wrong with £20 POTD - season ticket holders still make a saving - and have their seat reserved for each game, which is kind of the main thing.

For example, I will not go to either Bolton or Burton at the current price (can't justify spending almost £30 or more), but I would be there for £20 POTD.

I'm not the only one who feels the same.

My Dad is unemployed and has been ever since he was made redundant and unable to find other work - and even though he has been an ardent City fan since the early 70's, he can only afford to see City about 3 times a season.  That can't be right with all the empty seats available!

You make a very valid point there. Surely the club ought do offer discounts for folks like your dad. The only slight worry is would it be abused as I don`t think it`s right if all sorts of evidence is required to prove someone`s out of work.

[bristolcitysweden]

Pricing got nothing to with it. I get as embarrassed independent of how much I have paid. All about quality of football over a period of time.

[The Nest Egg]

It completely puts me off going when the prices are so high, considering I also have to get a train from Exeter as well. It also puts my friends off who are students at UWE. It amazes me that no student scheme is in place when the truth is we do have quite a few empty seats we should be filling. The Sags do one, and I regularly watched Exeter City last year as there was a university society that offered cheap tickets which then became very popular. Bristol is a huge student city and I am sure so many more would be encouraged to go if the prices were lowered slightly or if an incentive scheme for students was offered.

[WolfOfWestStreet]

Its all well and good saying 25-35 quid is reasonable if you go on your own. But what if your household has 2,3,4+ supporters ... That's what prices people out. 

Sorry son I'm leaving you at home today ....  

[WTFiGO!?!]

11 hours ago, Xiled said:

I'm sure the club would rather see the stadium full (although the parking permit issue could be significant and would play havoc with many fans' current matchday travel arrangements).  But, as has been qualified in previous posts, gates of around 18 to 21k allow for headroom if we start to move up the Championship.  Selling to full capacity cheaply makes it very difficult for the club to increase their income based on improving results.

I don't really understand this argument.  It seems to be suggesting we are already charging what we would be if we were a consistent top eight side, due for inevitable promotion any season now.  

By that logic, potd tickets are actually overpriced for where we currently are.

Secondly, it suggests that the club can't and won't increase ticket prices should we become a consistently more successful side, naturally attracting more spectators.  I don't buy that at all.  

[Xiled]

5 hours ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

In terms of the attendance, we should be aiming for every seat to be filled every game. I'm not suggesting stupidly low prices, starting from £15 seems fair to me, as obviously the club does need money, but we shouldn't see 20k as a success and not crave more.

Of course many people who take up offers are the occasional fan, but even with them it is about building up that emotional attachment by getting them in more often. I used to take a 'United' fan on my ST when the offer was on and he just wasn't there to understand fully. The last minute winner, the drug football fans thrive off isn't at every game, and so you need to get people in to witness these moments in order for them to endure a whole season. The idea that £30 is reasonable or even acceptable in anyway is a joke and to simply pass it off as 'the way it is' is nothing short of selfish in my opinion. In addition if we accept 30, eventually that'll become 35...then 40...then before you know it you'll be complaining that you can't afford to go anymore and you'll wonder why those who can still afford it won't empathise and just pass it off as 'the way things are'. The rot has to stop now.

You talk about how realisticly City price things. Talk to football fans around the world who think that English football fans have lost any ownership of their clubs, cannot create an atmosphere, just sit and do what their told, and have lost that sense of unity of being in a club. They are so right.  That is the biggest truth. If we were an Italian club that increased their cheapest season ticket by £50 there'd have been a protest on such a scale that the club would struggle to hit four figures in attendance every week. 

A lot of your argument is conjecture - it's your opinion or the opinion of people you have talked to.  My own experience is not the same as yours and a number of people (friends and family) who have been to Ashton Gate do not see "a loss of ownership" or a rot that has to stop.  Have a word with a few away fans (Barnsley and Aston Villa are my recent conversations) and they are actually quite impressed with what they see when they visit our ground.

But again, those are opinions and will be affected by our respective positions.

But let's look at 2016/17 and draw a comparison between us and an Italian football club.  Unfortunately I don't have time to find a fair comparison because the Championship doesn't compare to Serie B (average attendances are higher in the Championship).  So, for ease I'm going to compare Bristol City with Napoli in Serie A.

Napoli season ticket prices ranged from £228 to £2000 per season.  Their average attendance is 36,600 in a stadium that seats 60,240.  They played 19 league games at home during 2016/17.  That means their cheapest season ticket worked out at £12 per game (probably a child's ticket) and their most expensive was £105 per game.  Their stadium averaged 61% of capacity.

In 2016/17 our cheapest adult season ticket was £13 per game and under 19s could buy a season ticket for £4.30 per game.  Our average home attendance was 19,256 that represented 71% of capacity. 

Quite reasonably you could say that Napoli are playing a higher standard of football in a better league and therefore their tickets represent better value.  I can't argue with that but by pricing  season tickets starting at £228 for the season, their stadium is less than two thirds full on average.  Hardly a success story.

And if you want to talk about POTD, your suggestion that my £30 ticket will be £35 or £40 soon is total nonsense.  In 2007 I paid a total of £94.80 for four Atyeo Stand adult tickets for a game against West Brom on the 18th September.  That worked out at £23.70 per ticket.  With inflation, those tickets would be over £30 in today's money.  A total of 16.571 people watched that game.

Fast forward ten years to 2017 and our game against Derby County.  The maximum cost of an adult ticket in South Stand is £33 (it's not possible to buy a home ticket for the Atyeo).  Forever Bristol members pay £28.  Season ticket plus holders can bring two friends for £10 each and there are concessions for over 65s, under 22s, under 19s and under 12s.

Regardless of whether you pay £28 or £33 for the adult POTD ticket look at the matchday differences compared to sitting in the Atyeo in 2007.  It's a completely different experience with everything that is now on offer before, during and after a match.

All of the above numbers are from reliable web sites or my own BCFC ticketing emails.  I've been as objective as I can be and I really don't see how anyone can claim that Bristol City are charging too much for tickets.

A ticket for Dunkirk at Vue cinema this Friday is £11.24.  Last Sunday a day ticket for Reading Festival was £73.  John Bishop at the Hippodrome in September is £36.50.  Or Bristol City vs Derby County for £10 if you know a Season Ticket plus holder.

Can you support your argument with facts that Bristol City are not realistic with their ticket prices?

Would I like to pay less?  Yes, of course I would.  Are the club ripping fans off with ticket prices?  No, I don't think they are.

[weepywall]

20 hours ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

Our biggest gate last season was for a meaningless fixture for us (alred y safe) where the prices were dropped...

It wasnt meaningless when the tickets went on sale though and it was on a sunday so plenty that play football or work saturdays were able to go.

[reddogkev]

9 hours ago, Xiled said:

A lot of your argument is conjecture - it's your opinion or the opinion of people you have talked to.  My own experience is not the same as yours and a number of people (friends and family) who have been to Ashton Gate do not see "a loss of ownership" or a rot that has to stop.  Have a word with a few away fans (Barnsley and Aston Villa are my recent conversations) and they are actually quite impressed with what they see when they visit our ground.

But again, those are opinions and will be affected by our respective positions.

But let's look at 2016/17 and draw a comparison between us and an Italian football club.  Unfortunately I don't have time to find a fair comparison because the Championship doesn't compare to Serie B (average attendances are higher in the Championship).  So, for ease I'm going to compare Bristol City with Napoli in Serie A.

Napoli season ticket prices ranged from £228 to £2000 per season.  Their average attendance is 36,600 in a stadium that seats 60,240.  They played 19 league games at home during 2016/17.  That means their cheapest season ticket worked out at £12 per game (probably a child's ticket) and their most expensive was £105 per game.  Their stadium averaged 61% of capacity.

In 2016/17 our cheapest adult season ticket was £13 per game and under 19s could buy a season ticket for £4.30 per game.  Our average home attendance was 19,256 that represented 71% of capacity. 

Quite reasonably you could say that Napoli are playing a higher standard of football in a better league and therefore their tickets represent better value.  I can't argue with that but by pricing  season tickets starting at £228 for the season, their stadium is less than two thirds full on average.  Hardly a success story.

And if you want to talk about POTD, your suggestion that my £30 ticket will be £35 or £40 soon is total nonsense.  In 2007 I paid a total of £94.80 for four Atyeo Stand adult tickets for a game against West Brom on the 18th September.  That worked out at £23.70 per ticket.  With inflation, those tickets would be over £30 in today's money.  A total of 16.571 people watched that game.

Fast forward ten years to 2017 and our game against Derby County.  The maximum cost of an adult ticket in South Stand is £33 (it's not possible to buy a home ticket for the Atyeo).  Forever Bristol members pay £28.  Season ticket plus holders can bring two friends for £10 each and there are concessions for over 65s, under 22s, under 19s and under 12s.

Regardless of whether you pay £28 or £33 for the adult POTD ticket look at the matchday differences compared to sitting in the Atyeo in 2007.  It's a completely different experience with everything that is now on offer before, during and after a match.

All of the above numbers are from reliable web sites or my own BCFC ticketing emails.  I've been as objective as I can be and I really don't see how anyone can claim that Bristol City are charging too much for tickets.

A ticket for Dunkirk at Vue cinema this Friday is £11.24.  Last Sunday a day ticket for Reading Festival was £73.  John Bishop at the Hippodrome in September is £36.50.  Or Bristol City vs Derby County for £10 if you know a Season Ticket plus holder.

Can you support your argument with facts that Bristol City are not realistic with their ticket prices?

Would I like to pay less?  Yes, of course I would.  Are the club ripping fans off with ticket prices?  No, I don't think they are.

Very impressive post - apart from Havanatopia's match day threads, surely there has never been a response with such clear research and detail included.

I'd be intrigued to know how long it took you to complete that response.  I do agree that the club is not in any way shape or form ripping fans off, but it would be fantastic if they could reduce ticket prices to make the burden of managing finances easier for the fan without as much disposable income compared to the wealthier margin of City fans.

I feel tickets should be closer in price to the Cinema cost you have mentioned, and not comparable to a one-off performance of a Scouse comedian.  If you go to see John Bishop or any other comedian, it is not something you will then continue to do every fortnight for the best part of a year.

One thought that does strike me this morning, perhaps the club would be reluctant to have the stadium sell out or reach near capacity each game, for all the extra effort / staff requirements this must involve, and the aforementioned references to the complex Ashton parking situation.

[SARJ]

11 hours ago, Xiled said:

A lot of your argument is conjecture - it's your opinion or the opinion of people you have talked to.  My own experience is not the same as yours and a number of people (friends and family) who have been to Ashton Gate do not see "a loss of ownership" or a rot that has to stop.  Have a word with a few away fans (Barnsley and Aston Villa are my recent conversations) and they are actually quite impressed with what they see when they visit our ground.

But again, those are opinions and will be affected by our respective positions.

But let's look at 2016/17 and draw a comparison between us and an Italian football club.  Unfortunately I don't have time to find a fair comparison because the Championship doesn't compare to Serie B (average attendances are higher in the Championship).  So, for ease I'm going to compare Bristol City with Napoli in Serie A.

Napoli season ticket prices ranged from £228 to £2000 per season.  Their average attendance is 36,600 in a stadium that seats 60,240.  They played 19 league games at home during 2016/17.  That means their cheapest season ticket worked out at £12 per game (probably a child's ticket) and their most expensive was £105 per game.  Their stadium averaged 61% of capacity.

In 2016/17 our cheapest adult season ticket was £13 per game and under 19s could buy a season ticket for £4.30 per game.  Our average home attendance was 19,256 that represented 71% of capacity. 

Quite reasonably you could say that Napoli are playing a higher standard of football in a better league and therefore their tickets represent better value.  I can't argue with that but by pricing  season tickets starting at £228 for the season, their stadium is less than two thirds full on average.  Hardly a success story.

And if you want to talk about POTD, your suggestion that my £30 ticket will be £35 or £40 soon is total nonsense.  In 2007 I paid a total of £94.80 for four Atyeo Stand adult tickets for a game against West Brom on the 18th September.  That worked out at £23.70 per ticket.  With inflation, those tickets would be over £30 in today's money.  A total of 16.571 people watched that game.

Fast forward ten years to 2017 and our game against Derby County.  The maximum cost of an adult ticket in South Stand is £33 (it's not possible to buy a home ticket for the Atyeo).  Forever Bristol members pay £28.  Season ticket plus holders can bring two friends for £10 each and there are concessions for over 65s, under 22s, under 19s and under 12s.

Regardless of whether you pay £28 or £33 for the adult POTD ticket look at the matchday differences compared to sitting in the Atyeo in 2007.  It's a completely different experience with everything that is now on offer before, during and after a match.

All of the above numbers are from reliable web sites or my own BCFC ticketing emails.  I've been as objective as I can be and I really don't see how anyone can claim that Bristol City are charging too much for tickets.

A ticket for Dunkirk at Vue cinema this Friday is £11.24.  Last Sunday a day ticket for Reading Festival was £73.  John Bishop at the Hippodrome in September is £36.50.  Or Bristol City vs Derby County for £10 if you know a Season Ticket plus holder.

Can you support your argument with facts that Bristol City are not realistic with their ticket prices?

Would I like to pay less?  Yes, of course I would.  Are the club ripping fans off with ticket prices?  No, I don't think they are.

Impressive post backed up with facts, which makes a nice change for OTIB!

Ultimately it all comes down to personal circumstances.

I know a great deal of family and friends who aren't season ticket holders and would love to come to the Gate more regularly, but for £25-30 simply won't bother. Make those tickets a tenner and you'd get these fans. Again, this is personal. I'm sure there are others who think £30 a ticket for Championship footy in a new stadium is okay.

As for Season Tickets, I pay £350 for the unreserved bit in the South Stand. If that went up to £500 like other bits of the South Stand/Lansdown currently are then I could not afford to go, simple as. Personal circumstances. Likewise, there are probably other supporters who earn more money or have less financial commitments who see £500 for an ST as great value.

[Bristol Rob]

Just a small point.

A few people have suggested that fifteen quid would be a price point they'd be comfortable with and the increased cost is why they aren't able to go on a regular basis.

If we assume 24 home games (approx) at 15 quid then that would be £340 - so if you skip a season and make do with local radio, this place and social media for your fix of football you will have pretty much saved the cost of a season ticket for next season.

Then repeat the process the season after whilst enjoying the games and it's a case of job done.