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Barcelona to play behind closed doors after trouble in Catalonia.

cityexile

By cityexile
in Football Chat

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ZiderEyed

ZiderEyed

Posted
Posted

If the Guardia Civil will go around smacking the elderly in the heads with batons, then theres gonna be trouble. No nos moveran!

Phileas Fogg

Phileas Fogg

Posted
Posted

The pictures and videos coming out of Spain today are shocking. Totally unnecessary violence against people just trying to vote - whether it’s an illegitimate referendum or not.

I’ve lived and worked in Spain and I’m not surprised by the actions of the police. I’ve come into contact with them before and I’ve found they’re aggressive, reactionary and generally seem to have a masculinity complex.

Terrible PR for Rajoy and his horrific government. Over 450 people injured today - totally unnecessarily. As a country we are far ahead of Spain in many ways. Things like this show that. 

Esmond Million's Bung

Esmond Million's Bung

Posted
Posted
47 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

The pictures and videos coming out of Spain today are shocking. Totally unnecessary violence against people just trying to vote - whether it’s an illegitimate referendum or not.

I’ve lived and worked in Spain and I’m not surprised by the actions of the police. I’ve come into contact with them before and I’ve found they’re aggressive, reactionary and generally seem to have a masculinity complex.

Terrible PR for Rajoy and his horrific government. Over 450 people injured today - totally unnecessarily. As a country we are far ahead of Spain in many ways. Things like this show that. 

The trouble is the Spanish government have said they will use whatever force is necessary to stop/break this up, they have the blood on their hands and this will not end well.

But I expect the EU will find a solution:whistle:.

Phileas Fogg

Phileas Fogg

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

The trouble is the Spanish government have said they will use whatever force is necessary to stop/break this up, they have the blood on their hands and this will not end well.

But I expect the EU will find a solution:whistle:.

You’re right. Their police operate on an ‘act first - ask questions later’ policy. Possibly a hangover from Francoism to have such an authoritarian way of dealing with things like this.

Lots of Franco sympathisers in the police force apparently..

lenred

lenred

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

You’re right. Their police operate on an ‘act first - ask questions later’ policy. Possibly a hangover from Francoism to have such an authoritarian way of dealing with things like this.

Lots of Franco sympathisers in the police force apparently..

Be interested to know whether the police there today seemingly hitting anything and everything in sight  are Catalan fighting their own or have been brought in from outside. From what I've seen it's been shocking - not been good and I would've thought it'll just fuel the fires for the independence campaign in the future. 

Phileas Fogg

Phileas Fogg

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, lenred said:

Be interested to know whether the police there today seemingly hitting anything and everything in sight  are Catalan fighting their own or have been brought in from outside. From what I've seen it's been shocking - not been good and I would've thought it'll just fuel the fires for the independence campaign in the future. 

I think lots are Guardia Civil that have been bought in. I don’t think Madrid would trust the Catalonian police to deal with it how they’d want.

Reports that firefighters and Catalan police have been assisting voters and voting themselves. There’s a shocking video on Owen Jones’ twitter of firefighters being attacked by Guardia Civil.

It’s such a bizarre PR move from Rajoy. Not only will it strengthen the resolve of the Catalonians, but it’ll invigorate the Basque independence campaign and give the Catalan independence cause more outside support. These pictures and videos are really damaging.

Lanterne Rouge

Lanterne Rouge

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said:

You’re right. Their police operate on an ‘act first - ask questions later’ policy. Possibly a hangover from Francoism to have such an authoritarian way of dealing with things like this.

Lots of Franco sympathisers in the police force apparently..

I`ve just finished a book about the history of modern Spain from before Franco and there are an awful lot of Spanish who are very much sympathisers, not just in the police and army but the general non-Catalan and non-Basque populace. It`s been simmering away for years - ever since Franco died really - and doesn`t take a lot to rise to the surface.

I believe we are watching the beginning of the break up of Spain as a nation - the economy`s shot to pieces and there`s discontent everywhere. It`s reminiscent of the Balkans post Tito but without the civil wars I dearly hope.

Phileas Fogg

Phileas Fogg

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Red Right Hand said:

I`ve just finished a book about the history of modern Spain from before Franco and there are an awful lot of Spanish who are very much sympathisers, not just in the police and army but the general non-Catalan and non-Basque populace. It`s been simmering away for years - ever since Franco died really - and doesn`t take a lot to rise to the surface.

I believe we are watching the beginning of the break up of Spain as a nation - the economy`s shot to pieces and there`s discontent everywhere. It`s reminiscent of the Balkans post Tito but without the civil wars I dearly hope.

I have spent time there and love the country but I agree. It’s far behind Northern Europe in many ways and plenty of the elderly generation can’t read or write due to Franco’s reign.

There’s 4 or 5 different independence movements in the country - some more prominent than others - which is lots and demonstrates the divisions. It’s a huge land mass with a vastly different culture in the different regions which is pretty phenomenal. 

I met many Franco sympathisers during my time there who simply think the country was better off with him about. 

INCRED

INCRED

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, lenred said:

Be interested to know whether the police there today seemingly hitting anything and everything in sight  are Catalan fighting their own or have been brought in from outside. From what I've seen it's been shocking - not been good and I would've thought it'll just fuel the fires for the independence campaign in the future. 

Guardia Civil brought in from outside Catalonia so no sympathisers amongst them. Could be an interesting next home game for Barca when stadium is opened and I dare say the next Real Madrid v Barca game as its always been seen as Catalonia versus the Spanish establishment 

screech

screech

Posted
Posted

Statement from the leaders of the free thinking EU condemning the violence just released, it says

"     "

Signed

The Leaders of The EU

XX

Northern Red

Northern Red

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, INCRED said:

Guardia Civil brought in from outside Catalonia so no sympathisers amongst them. Could be an interesting next home game for Barca when stadium is opened and I dare say the next Real Madrid v Barca game as its always been seen as Catalonia versus the Spanish establishment 

As it happens, Barca's first game after the international break is away at Atletico Madrid.

wendyredredrobin

wendyredredrobin

Posted
Posted

It seems that thee was a fair chance of the vote going against independence until the Spanish government pitched in.  It won't now.  Only problem is that the Spanish government have now stolen the ballot boxes.

Imagine if we did this in Scotlamd.

Phileas Fogg

Phileas Fogg

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

As it happens, Barca's first game after the international break is away at Atletico Madrid.

If anything, Atletico Madrid are the loyalist team in Madrid. Some connection to their Air Force. Real Madrid fans tend to be far more passive due to the amount of tourists.

Difference there is that there’s not really a culture of travelling to away games so there’s unlikely to be the same issues there would be if the game was in Northern Europe.

22A

22A

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, wendyredredrobin said:

It seems that thee was a fair chance of the vote going against independence until the Spanish government pitched in.  It won't now.  Only problem is that the Spanish government have now stolen the ballot boxes.

Imagine if we did this in Scotlamd.

Yet the joke was that to ensure Scottish independence; Give the English the vote in that referendum! :P

More seriously; today's events will guarantee Gibraltarians will not want to become Spanish.

Phileas Fogg

Phileas Fogg

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, El Hombrecito said:

There is a lot of Spain flags on show at the Real Madrid v Espanyol (from Cataluña) game right now.

Espanyol are the loyalist Catalan side which may add to that a bit.

cityexile

cityexile

Posted
  • Author
Posted
14 minutes ago, El Hombrecito said:

There is a lot of Spain flags on show at the Real Madrid v Espanyol (from Cataluña) game right now.

It appears the club gave out a little Spanish flag to all fans today. Does feel like stirring the pot a bit unnecessarily to be honest. FIFA will just be glad they are not poppies I guess. 

Esmond Million's Bung

Esmond Million's Bung

Posted
Posted
22 hours ago, screech said:

Statement from the leaders of the free thinking EU condemning the violence just released, it says

"     "

Signed

The Leaders of The EU

XX

Actually @screech I just found this from the peace loving EU, it is refreshing to know that our EU partners never fail to disappoint.

The Vice President of the European Parliament has described today's events in Catalonia as a "coup against Europe".

But sweet FA about the violence, just imagine what the EU would say if parliament had sent an English goon squad in to stop a 2nd Scottish independence vote had there been one.

screech

screech

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Actually @screech I just found this from the peace loving EU, it is refreshing to know that our EU partners never fail to disappoint.

The Vice President of the European Parliament has described today's events in Catalonia as a "coup against Europe".

But sweet FA about the violence, just imagine what the EU would say if parliament had sent an English goon squad in to stop a 2nd Scottish independence vote had there been one.

The madness has no end it seems. Who is that person anyway? No cheating by googling either.

B block

B block

Posted
Posted

If they gained independence Spain would surely stop Barcelona playing in la liga, that would literally destroy Barcelona overnight, who would they play ?

Phileas Fogg

Phileas Fogg

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, B block said:

If they gained independence Spain would surely stop Barcelona playing in la liga, that would literally destroy Barcelona overnight, who would they play ?

I think there'd be a big push for a European Super League of some description in that instance. I don't think it would be in Spain's best interest to stop Barcelona playing in La Liga anyway.

B block

B block

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I think there'd be a big push for a European Super League of some description in that instance. I don't think it would be in Spain's best interest to stop Barcelona playing in La Liga anyway.

I wouldn't underestimate the Spanish pulling the plug if they go down the independent route, although the euro leagues on the cards that's for sure, the big sides don't have enough money at the moment (as if) so want their greedy little hands on more cash 

Phileas Fogg

Phileas Fogg

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, B block said:

I wouldn't underestimate the Spanish pulling the plug if they go down the independent route, although the euro leagues on the cards that's for sure, the big sides don't have enough money at the moment (as if) so want their greedy little hands on more cash 

I don't think Catalan independence will happen any time soon, but theoretically if it did I suppose they might ban Barcelona from La Liga as a bit of symbolism. Commercially though it would be awful for the league and they'd face pressure from lots of sponsors to make an exception.

I think the Super League thing will happen in some form eventually sadly.

joeyb

joeyb

Posted
Posted

I don't understand why Barcelona haven't been bollocked for this.

The British nations weren't allowed to wear poppy's on the shirt because FIFA laws dictate football cannot be used to take political sides. And were threatened with fines and possible points deductions.

Barcelona openly support the illegal Catalan independence vote and display "Democracy" on the scoreboard for the entire 90 mins yet get nothing. Normally I don't agree with all the UEFAlona stuff people cream all over twitter whenever Barcelona get a decision but I'm starting to see that they can literally do anything and get away with it by chiefs of the game - literally because Johan Cruyff was an iconic coach there.

PHILINFRANCE

PHILINFRANCE

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Actually @screech I just found this from the peace loving EU, it is refreshing to know that our EU partners never fail to disappoint.

The Vice President of the European Parliament has described today's events in Catalonia as a "coup against Europe".

But sweet FA about the violence, just imagine what the EU would say if parliament had sent an English goon squad in to stop a 2nd Scottish independence vote had there been one.

 

8 hours ago, screech said:

The madness has no end it seems. Who is that person anyway? No cheating by googling either.

I have not seen this quoted comment, but I believe there, in fact, are several Vice Presidents of the European Parliament.

Lanterne Rouge

Lanterne Rouge

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, Sixtyseconds said:

If Catalonia goes down. Cornwall will be next!! It must be stopped!

What about Wales though, you wouldn`t want to stand in their way? You haven`t thought this through have you?

Fiale

Fiale

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, Red Right Hand said:

What about Wales though, you wouldn`t want to stand in their way? You haven`t thought this through have you?

 

Maybe also Merseyside ?

stephenkibby.

stephenkibby.

Posted
Posted
On ‎01‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 17:35, Phileas Fogg said:

I think lots are Guardia Civil that have been bought in. I don’t think Madrid would trust the Catalonian police to deal with it how they’d want.

Reports that firefighters and Catalan police have been assisting voters and voting themselves. There’s a shocking video on Owen Jones’ twitter of firefighters being attacked by Guardia Civil.

It’s such a bizarre PR move from Rajoy. Not only will it strengthen the resolve of the Catalonians, but it’ll invigorate the Basque independence campaign and give the Catalan independence cause more outside support. These pictures and videos are really damaging.

Yeah Rajoy has ****** big time. I don't think this will end up with total independence for the Catalans but then half of them don't want it anyway. But his hand is so weakened now he should be a dead man walking.

As for the Guardia was like football hollies away weekend. They like bashing anyone. They in general dislike the English and I know a few that have been taken in and have had a kicking and then released without charge.

Saying all that I have a mate in the Guardia who got me out of a sticky situation . Same as everywhere I suppose some good people wherever you go.

Malago

Malago

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, stephenkibby. said:

Yeah Rajoy has ****** big time. I don't think this will end up with total independence for the Catalans but then half of them don't want it anyway. But his hand is so weakened now he should be a dead man walking.

As for the Guardia was like football hollies away weekend. They like bashing anyone. They in general dislike the English and I know a few that have been taken in and have had a kicking and then released without charge.

Saying all that I have a mate in the Guardia who got me out of a sticky situation . Same as everywhere I suppose some good people wherever you go.

The way I see it, it was a win win situation. The Catalans got to play real victims and the Guardia Civil got to crack open a few heads.  What's not to like.

The only losers were the Scots who desperately wanted the English to do the same to them, but have to live with the disappointment of being treated reasonably and losing.

Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted

Interesting thread, worrying times for Spain tbh...army sent into Catalonia that is to say 2 divisions so I read, for logistical support as opposed to other uses thankfully. Also head of Catalan police charged with sedition.

@joeyb Bit of a red herring as FIFA don't have jurisdiction in that sense over domestic games. We have poppies at EPL games, it's international games where they get pissy or got pissy.

@Phileas Fogg Really? Bit surprised Atletico are that side, would have thought Real Madrid, Franco's team etc etc. That aside, I fully agree with you- will strengthen support for independence in Catalonia and the Basque country too possibly.

It's gonna sound rather prejudiced and maybe wrong- but I've always been a bit wary of Spain, how democratic is it? The Madrid establishment especially...how really democratic is modern Spain? I read online that some of the pics of police aggression were from a general strike of 2014- which itself tells a story.

WessexPest

WessexPest

Posted
Posted

The Spanish government have acted like absolute arseholes over this whole affair and the king refusing to criticize the heavy-handed reaction by the police is merely going to harden attitudes further.

They should've consented to a legal referendum and in all probability the status quo would've won the day and the matter could be declared settled for a generation at least. But no, a country with a very turbulent recent past hasn't so much opened old wounds as basically torn the country to shreds. Interesting few weeks ahead...

This is one of the reasons why I favour the unwritten constitution of the U.K. that has endured since 1689 - it adapts so easily to changing times; it is highly unlikely there would be a Scottish parliament today, let alone an IndyRef if we had a written constitution. Also witness the latest horrors in the US because of the anachronistic clause that is the second amendment. America hasn't needed a standing militia for 200 years.

From a football perspective, it truly is a bizarre state of affairs that the Spain national team contains a player that doesn't believe in the team he plays for (well I assume Pique is a Catalan nationalist - he certainly supported the holding of the referendum).

Thank goodness the situation in the U.K. isn't analogous or we would have a Great Britain team (I have zero interest in being British - I identify as English and supported a Yes vote in the Scottish referendum as it would've been a big step to the eventual re-emergence of England as a sovereign state).

Be interesting to see the future status of Barcelona FC though if Catalunya does break away. They are such a big club that the thought of them being expelled from the Spanish league is unthinkable - the allure of El Classico will surely be the deciding factor. But anything's possible in the event of UDI.

Things could get extremely ugly.

 

WessexPest

WessexPest

Posted
Posted
On 10/3/2017 at 03:01, Sixtyseconds said:

If Catalonia goes down. Cornwall will be next!! It must be stopped!

Cornwall has been part of England since England existed. Having lived there for two years (inc. during the 1998 World Cup - enthusiastic support for the England team) my experience is Englishness and Cornishness are not generally mutually exclusive like say, Englishness and Scottishness are. Well, it is for a small minority but they remind me of the types of people who record their religion as "Jedi" on census forms.

I do think though that eventually the nations of the U.K. will be scattered to the four winds, and a good thing too - the U.K. is past its sell-by date.

An independent England would be an opportunity for some fairly big differences in how we are governed and I would envisage Cornwall for example having a large degree of autonomy. Then if there was a rise in nationalist sentiment big enough for a referendum it would take place. Then if they voted for separation it's good luck and bon voyage.

EDIT: Trying to keep a secessionist-minded state or province by force never ends well,  the Czech-Slovak "Velvet Divorce" is a great example of two nations going their separate ways amicably.

Esmond Million's Bung

Esmond Million's Bung

Posted
Posted
39 minutes ago, WessexPest said:

The Spanish government have acted like absolute arseholes over this whole affair and the king refusing to criticize the heavy-handed reaction by the police is merely going to harden attitudes further.

They should've consented to a legal referendum and in all probability the status quo would've won the day and the matter could be declared settled for a generation at least. But no, a country with a very turbulent recent past hasn't so much opened old wounds as basically torn the country to shreds. Interesting few weeks ahead...

This is one of the reasons why I favour the unwritten constitution of the U.K. that has endured since 1689 - it adapts so easily to changing times; it is highly unlikely there would be a Scottish parliament today, let alone an IndyRef if we had a written constitution. Also witness the latest horrors in the US because of the anachronistic clause that is the second amendment. America hasn't needed a standing militia for 200 years.

From a football perspective, it truly is a bizarre state of affairs that the Spain national team contains a player that doesn't believe in the team he plays for (well I assume Pique is a Catalan nationalist - he certainly supported the holding of the referendum).

Thank goodness the situation in the U.K. isn't analogous or we would have a Great Britain team (I have zero interest in being British - I identify as English and supported a Yes vote in the Scottish referendum as it would've been a big step to the eventual re-emergence of England as a sovereign state).

Be interesting to see the future status of Barcelona FC though if Catalunya does break away. They are such a big club that the thought of them being expelled from the Spanish league is unthinkable - the allure of El Classico will surely be the deciding factor. But anything's possible in the event of UDI.

Things could get extremely ugly.

 

The EU have acted like bigger arseholes, they could and should have said that the vote was illegal and unauthorised but the violence perpetrated by the Spanish police was a disgrace and not only has to stop immediately but the worst perpetrators brought to justice.

But of course to me it's yet another reason why the EU is becoming more and more pointless and has and will continue to fail.

The EU has treated Spain like a 3rd world country with the handouts that they have received and on Sunday the police actions cemented the idea that perhaps that view was correct and Spain is indeed a 3rd world country.

RedZepperin

RedZepperin

Posted
Posted
51 minutes ago, WessexPest said:

The Spanish government have acted like absolute arseholes over this whole affair and the king refusing to criticize the heavy-handed reaction by the police is merely going to harden attitudes further.

They should've consented to a legal referendum and in all probability the status quo would've won the day and the matter could be declared settled for a generation at least. But no, a country with a very turbulent recent past hasn't so much opened old wounds as basically torn the country to shreds. Interesting few weeks ahead..

 

The government is not empowered to consent to a legal referendum. It would have to go through the Spanish parliament.

Phileas Fogg

Phileas Fogg

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

 

@Phileas Fogg Really? Bit surprised Atletico are that side, would have thought Real Madrid, Franco's team etc etc. That aside, I fully agree with you- will strengthen support for independence in Catalonia and the Basque country too possibly.

Yep that's how it is. Goes back to that Air Force connection if I remember correctly. 

I don't think Basque independence is realistic personally, but will increase the sense of feeling about it.

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

It's gonna sound rather prejudiced and maybe wrong- but I've always been a bit wary of Spain, how democratic is it? The Madrid establishment especially...how really democratic is modern Spain? I read online that some of the pics of police aggression were from a general strike of 2014- which itself tells a story.

Well it's a modern country in most ways. In my experience, there are little things which we take for granted here which still haven't caught up yet in Spain. There's far more divisions in the country than here. In the older generations far less literacy too. It's democratic, but not as fair and secure as it is here. 

When I was there - there was frequent protests and demonstrations, people on hunger strike outside the Parliament buildings.. they were hit enormously hard by the recession and the current government is very traditionalist and conservative.

RedZepperin

RedZepperin

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

I am saying that the way the police acted certainly gives that impression.

Come on, Esmondo. You're more intelligent than that.

WessexPest

WessexPest

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

The EU have acted like bigger arseholes, they could and should have said that the vote was illegal and unauthorised but the violence perpetrated by the Spanish police was a disgrace and not only has to stop immediately but the worst perpetrators brought to justice.

But of course to me it's yet another reason why the EU is becoming more and more pointless and has and will continue to fail.

The EU has treated Spain like a 3rd world country with the handouts that they have received and on Sunday the police actions cemented the idea that perhaps that view was correct and Spain is indeed a 3rd world country.

You'll not get any argument from me there - and Spain's disastrous membership of the Eurozone is a big part of where they are today.

This sort of civil disobedience is why the EU wants its own army, with authority to rule over national governments. Woe betide any nation or grouping that wishes to reject EU dictats or even vote on leaving - Madrid has shown what the likely response will be.

Esmond Million's Bung

Esmond Million's Bung

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, RedZepperin said:

Come on, Esmondo. You're more intelligent than that.

What?, you think that in the 21st century the Spanish police brought into Barcelona acted like police officers should in a normal democracy? or do you believe that they were mainly nationalist thugs sent in to teach peaceful Catalan's a lesson?.

WessexPest

WessexPest

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, RedZepperin said:

The government is not empowered to consent to a legal referendum. It would have to go through the Spanish parliament.

Sorry, that should've read "The Spanish establishment."

Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted

I am no expert in the Spanish politics, but this-admittedly on Wiki- about the Spanish PM is interesting:

Early life[edit]

Aznar was born in Madrid[3] in 1953, was the son of Manuel Aznar Acedo, army official, journalist and radio broadcaster, and grandson of Manuel Aznar Zubigaray, a former Basque nationalist broadcaster turned Falangistpropagandist and a prominent journalist during the Franco era. Both father and grandfather held governmental positions during the years of Spain under Franco.

He was educated at El Pilar and studied law at the Complutense University of Madrid, graduating in 1975, becoming a Spanish Tax Authority inspector in 1976.

Politician[edit]

As a teenager, Aznar was a member of the Frente de Estudiantes Sindicalistas (FES), a Student Union supporting the Falange, Franco's one-party fascist organization. After 1977 it would become Falange Española Independiente (FEI).[4]

Obviously I am not intimating he or his party are Fascist or Franco sympathisers but it's unfortunate for this let's say...

Malago

Malago

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I am no expert in the Spanish politics, but this-admittedly on Wiki- about the Spanish PM is interesting:

Early life[edit]

Aznar was born in Madrid[3] in 1953, was the son of Manuel Aznar Acedo, army official, journalist and radio broadcaster, and grandson of Manuel Aznar Zubigaray, a former Basque nationalist broadcaster turned Falangistpropagandist and a prominent journalist during the Franco era. Both father and grandfather held governmental positions during the years of Spain under Franco.

He was educated at El Pilar and studied law at the Complutense University of Madrid, graduating in 1975, becoming a Spanish Tax Authority inspector in 1976.

Politician[edit]

As a teenager, Aznar was a member of the Frente de Estudiantes Sindicalistas (FES), a Student Union supporting the Falange, Franco's one-party fascist organization. After 1977 it would become Falange Española Independiente (FEI).[4]

Obviously I am not intimating he or his party are Fascist or Franco sympathisers but it's unfortunate for this let's say...

José María Aznar has not been Spanish PM for over 13 years.

The Spanish PM is Mariano Rajoy.

RedZepperin

RedZepperin

Posted
Posted
18 hours ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

What?, you think that in the 21st century the Spanish police brought into Barcelona acted like police officers should in a normal democracy? or do you believe that they were mainly nationalist thugs sent in to teach peaceful Catalan's a lesson?.

Mainly nationalist thugs? How do I know? How the hell do you?

And yet on such flimsy information you classify Spain as a third world country.

And if thuggishness is your yardstick, where does England rank exactly?

Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Malago said:

José María Aznar has not been Spanish PM for over 13 years.

The Spanish PM is Mariano Rajoy.

Wow, dunno how I got those 2 mixed up...but then I am no expert. I just googled Spanish people's party- dunno some link must have directed me to him. I think it directed me to Aznar which is...embarrassing.

However the party itself seemingly isn't a million miles from certain Franco sympathies. I got my wires crossed badly on the leader but...the party doesn't seem a great bunch from what I read.

Certainly wouldn't agree with EMB's asserton that Spain is third world. Economically not indeed.

Esmond Million's Bung

Esmond Million's Bung

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, RedZepperin said:

Mainly nationalist thugs? How do I know? How the hell do you?

And yet on such flimsy information you classify Spain as a third world country.

And if thuggishness is your yardstick, where does England rank exactly?

I intimated that there was a perception of the EU treating Spain as if it were a 3rd world country and that the thuggish behaviour of the police towards people in Barcelona gives creedence to that perception.

I am assuming you have not seen the video of police officers in their hotel taunting the Catalans by singing nationalist songs, if you don't think that the Spanish police acted in a thuggish behaviour that is your right, but if you are in some way trying to suggest that the UK police are as bad then you are just plain wrong, because had this happened in the UK the EU would be all over this like a rash.

The truth is the Spanish government have not dealt with this very well at all in the same way that they are acting in their pursuit of Gibraltar and certainly not in a way that would expected of an EU member and ally.

elhombrecito

elhombrecito

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Super said:

Did find this amazing Barca and other teams only given 250 tickets for Atletico Madrid which holds 68,000.

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11838/11067698/atletico-madrid-insist-barcelona-offered-same-number-of-away-tickets-as-other-la-liga-clubs

To be fair, Spanish teams really don't travel away much. Quite normal for followings to number in the very low hundreds - even the big clubs.

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