BRISTOL86 Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 43 minutes ago, havanatopia said: Put it this way, you would not spend 40 or 50 million on more than one player just to stand still or go backwards. I do not understand how a casual observer is important or even relevant in this discussion. However, since you use the term what does a casual observer have to go on? The league table is about it and that tells us that Arsenal are the 5th best in the Premier League, that they finished 1 point outside of the top four and 6 points ahead of Man Utd. I don't think that is ballsing it up; falling short? for sure but since there are 6 teams considered realistically capable of reaching the top four, if that is the pre-supposed goal, then two are always going to be disappointed. By that token you could say the team that finished 6th last season also 'ballsed it up'. That of course would be disingenuous because MU won the Europa League and gained entry to the Champions League via a different route; however, that is hardly a casual observation. Each of those six teams are capable and gunning for the title; only one can win it. I think the discussion here should be about not the casual observer but about a football fan who knows the game, watches the matches, sees what has happened since 2005 and then makes an argument for Arsenal making some poor choices and being slow to rectify their errors while other teams around them have advanced and others caught up such as Spurs, Man City and Liverpool re-entering the fray. Two of those three teams are having to wait significantly longer for their next title triumph, especially Spurs - 1961, compared to Arsenal. I have said for years that Arsenal have never replaced their back line of Tony Adams, Martin Keown, Nigel Winterburn and Lee Dixon and nor have sufficient leaders who are British. That was their backbone. Nor do they have a midfield 'policeman' like N'Kolo Kante or Matic. If you look at most of the other big 5 they nearly all at least have solid leaders in their ranks. Wenger has to take the blame for that failing. Maybe City can help Arsenal by selling them Flint in January for 20 million and they should look to find a new Patrick Viera. As you have said they have the potential they just lack the ability to deliver it as a cohesive unit and filling those few on field spaces with the correct type of player is what it will likely take. I still fancy them for a top 4 finish though! That's the point isn't it. Even to you or I their problems are so obvious. Yet they don't address them. For about ten transfer windows they've needed new defenders and a hard man in midfield but they never arrive. Perhaps im being harsh when I accuse of a lack of ambition. Perhaps 'content to tread water' is a better phrase. The fact that the likes of Jack Wilshere can inexplicably still have a contract there shows how much of a cosy culture there is at the club. Too many people from playing staff to management in a comfort zone Clubs such as Chelsea, Man City and Man Utd have shown ruthlessness in seeking change to address insufficient league performance. Arsenal content to keep on keeping on, with no signs at all that they will mount a serious title challenge any time soon. With the resources their disposal they could, and should be challenging routinely to be the best team in England and one of the best in Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderMB Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 On 10/3/2017 at 13:03, BCFC_Dan said: Absolutely this. I'm so tired of hearing managers who have done well on a limited budget talked about as if they're better than those who've achieved success with a large budget. It's two different jobs and success in one in no way guarantees success in the other (though it certainly doesn't rule it out). Dyche is clearly a good manager and a forward-thinking one, but to stick him straight in a big club and assume he'd be successful is quite daft. He needs to either take an interim step to an Everton or a West Ham, or he needs to turn Burnley into regular top 8 contenders with a budget to match. It largely depends on whether their success is down to coaching, or whether it's down to good budget management. For Moyes, it was down to the latter. He bought well, and was able to maintain a level of success at that level. He also became complacent at Everton, struggling to adapt himself to a different team. When you take over Man Utd and you start trying to get the champions to play like Everton, you've lost the dressing room. For Dyche I hope it's the former as well as the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Coach Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 I never understand why nowdays pundits claim so and so could be a good fit for the England job. In my opinion, going from a league team to a national team is a step-down. Especially when it is England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAman08 Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 4 minutes ago, Red_Wizard said: I never understand why nowdays pundits claim so and so could be a good fit for the England job. In my opinion, going from a league team to a national team is a step-down. Especially when it is England. Read about Diego Simeone talking about managing Argentina one day. Said he'd love to but at the moment couldn't deal with preparing for 2 matches every few months or something along those lines. International management is completely different than managing a club. I think at international level things need to be simplified. You don't have time to integrate players together so to speak. You need a simple style that players are used to. Think that's a big problem for England. There is no style to fall back on that everyone grew up playing. Then try to play football with nations who teach a similar way from the start to senior level like Spain. then find it harder to break down teams who play for the point. As for Dyche, I think he's showing he's a capable manager. They've slowly brought in higher calibre players albeit still grafters who are more selfless than skilful. You've seen in their football though that they are capable at times of playing a few passes to carve out a good chance now. I agree he would need a bigger platform now to prove how good he is. I don't know what team that is though as I think there isn't much difference between the 20th to 8th best teams in the division. England? Think he'd improve them by keeping it simple. Solid defensively and get crosses into the box. England would do well with that style I think. Just not sure Dyche would be up for that job yet. It's an older mans job imo. A good manager who doesn't want that day to day pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 9 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said: Just not sure Dyche would be up for that job yet. It's an older mans job imo. A good manager who doesn't want that day to day pressure. You mean like Harry Redknapp?!. At least it would mean nobody could accuse him of blowing the budget. Mind you some might chip in and say something like "ahhh but Harry confessing to being a bit thick he might think he can transfer an England player" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAman08 Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 12 minutes ago, havanatopia said: You mean like Harry Redknapp?!. At least it would mean nobody could accuse him of blowing the budget. Mind you some might chip in and say something like "ahhh but Harry confessing to being a bit thick he might think he can transfer an England player" Maybe, I know some that say he should've gotten the job in the past. I'm no English football historian though. Just feel it's for someone who's managed 20-30 years at club level and fancies a break from that rigorous schedule and pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 On 03/10/2017 at 07:48, Midlands Robin said: I'll make no secret of the fact that Sean Dyche easily makes it on to my list of least favourite City players however there is no denying that he is doing a decent job as a manager. Ian Wright seems to think so and in this article he claims that Dyche could be the perfect replacement for Wenger at Arsenal and should, in time, be considered for the England job: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41478071 So, my question is, has Ian Wright lost his marbles or is Dyche good enough to bring success to a club that has gone stagnant under its current manager and where the weight of expectation and the demands of successful European competition would test even the very best managers? Would he make a good international manager in the future or is he just being touted for the role because of the continuing lack of truly successful English managers? Do you think he would ever be accepted by the Chablis swilling, lobster baguette -eating cockneys? Do you? Do you really?? tfj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Northski Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 Not sure you can have an England manager looks like Raoul Moat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie BCFC Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 Seems to be doing well I would put him up there with Eddie Howe of Bournemouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Team In Keynsham Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 4 hours ago, havanatopia said: Put it this way, you would not spend 40 or 50 million on more than one player just to stand still or go backwards. I do not understand how a casual observer is important or even relevant in this discussion. However, since you use the term what does a casual observer have to go on? The league table is about it and that tells us that Arsenal are the 5th best in the Premier League, that they finished 1 point outside of the top four and 6 points ahead of Man Utd. I don't think that is ballsing it up; falling short? for sure but since there are 6 teams considered realistically capable of reaching the top four, if that is the pre-supposed goal, then two are always going to be disappointed. By that token you could say the team that finished 6th last season also 'ballsed it up'. That of course would be disingenuous because MU won the Europa League and gained entry to the Champions League via a different route; however, that is hardly a casual observation. Each of those six teams are capable and gunning for the title; only one can win it. I think the discussion here should be about not the casual observer but about a football fan who knows the game, watches the matches, sees what has happened since 2005 and then makes an argument for Arsenal making some poor choices and being slow to rectify their errors while other teams around them have advanced and others caught up such as Spurs, Man City and Liverpool re-entering the fray. Two of those three teams are having to wait significantly longer for their next title triumph, especially Spurs - 1961, compared to Arsenal. I have said for years that Arsenal have never replaced their back line of Tony Adams, Martin Keown, Nigel Winterburn and Lee Dixon and nor have sufficient leaders who are British. That was their backbone. Nor do they have a midfield 'policeman' like N'Kolo Kante or Matic. If you look at most of the other big 5 they nearly all at least have solid leaders in their ranks. Wenger has to take the blame for that failing. Maybe City can help Arsenal by selling them Flint in January for 20 million and they should look to find a new Patrick Viera. As you have said they have the potential they just lack the ability to deliver it as a cohesive unit and filling those few on field spaces with the correct type of player is what it will likely take. I still fancy them for a top 4 finish though! The bit in bold smells of a fishing expedition to me: what on earth does the nationality matter in terms of whether someone can lead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 On 03/10/2017 at 07:54, chipdawg said: Marbles: Lost Dyche is good, but jumping from Burnley, who by necessity play a very 'functional' brand of football, to managing Sanchez, Lacazette, Ozil, etc, just won't work. There'll be no respect from the players at the club or that the club want to buy and the scale of the challenge is completely different. Like going straight from doing a Parkrun to the London Marathon. Dyche needs a job at a club somewhere inbetween first- an Everton or a Newcastle perhaps I agree, for some reason I think he's got Everton boss written all over him....and I haven't got a clue why I think that! He just seems a good fit when they lose patience with Koeman.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 On 03/10/2017 at 13:06, petehinton said: Dyche has done much much more than Southgate as a manager/coach...... Don't agree with that, Southgate took Middlesbrough to 12th in the Premier League in his first season in charge, beating Man City 8-1 along the way....he also had a 82% win record as boss of England U21s....Dyche relegated Burnley as manager in their first Premier League season... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petehinton Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 13 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said: Don't agree with that, Southgate took Middlesbrough to 12th in the Premier League in his first season in charge, beating Man City 8-1 along the way....he also had a 82% win record as boss of England U21s....Dyche relegated Burnley as manager in their first Premier League season... With the greatest respect mate that was 10 years ago. Playing the % game he won less than 30% of his games at Boro. His leaving legacy with the u21s was finishing bottom of their Euro 2015 group. Burnley were an unremarkable mid table Champ team when Dyche took over. Yes they were relegated in their first year, but they were promoted at the first time of asking. Stayed up comfortably last year and are flying this year. If I was chairman of a premier league club/Champ club wanting to go up soonish, and had to pick between the two, wouldn’t even draw breath before picking Dyche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 Southgate is the face of the FA as all England managers are but in Southgates case he's a FA corporate man. He's a safe pair of hands, non controversial and tame.............. It'll be like watching grass grow. Fortunately I'm bowling tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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