QPR face world record £40 million fine

[Midred]

5 hours ago, tinman85 said:

Surely this should mean points deduction and transfer embargo?

How many transfer embargoes have they had? Then they mysteriously get withdrawn.

[Swede]

This is a real watershed.

If the governing body want to make club's adhere to FFP then they must take action to punish the club's who flout the rules. Otherwise it eaves the door open for others to follow.

The way I understand it (& I may be wrong) before their relegation they were under the Premier League rules and subject to a fine for spending beyond their means.

Coming under the auspices of the FA has merely delayed the outcome.

I am not sure how they can get out of it tbh

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

I hope it gets enforced properly and is the start of something tbh.

PSG- they should unless they somehow make enough commercial revenue or have a bit of a relative firesale-  get clobbered next year. This is a whole different level obviously and clearly but...principle the same, gotta be enforced properly or it's useless.

[1960maaan]

There is something about not being able to impose a fine on a business that will cause that business to cease trading, £40m against the worth of the club may do that. Now the owners are very rich, and they were the ones that got them in that position so I , if I were a QPR fan, would want them to stump up. While the managers spent money like it was going out of fashion, the owners had the last say. I had a quick read of this, a mate is a Rangers fan,  quite an interesting read.

https://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/queensparkrangers/news/46804

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

If you don't want to risk putting them out of business, be creative.

Fine them say £xmillion per year and put them in transfer embargo until it is paid. If they have to sell players, cut wage bill etc then so be it.

[Up The City!]

So how are club's such as Wolves able to get around it?

[Mr Popodopolous]

Wolves?

Don't know about other clubs, but they were a financially quite well run- some would say unambitiously. Loaned out players when relegated, and again when relegated again- maintained a decent fanbase, plus you are allowed to accumulate losses over 3 years- if they had low losses in year 1 that gives more leeway to push boat out in year 2 or 3 for example. Which I think they did.

[chipdawg]

6 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Wolves?

Don't know about other clubs, but they were a financially quite well run- some would say unambitiously. Loaned out players when relegated, and again when relegated again- maintained a decent fanbase, plus you are allowed to accumulate losses over 3 years- if they had low losses in year 1 that gives more leeway to push boat out in year 2 or 3 for example. Which I think they did.

Financial prudence or not, you can't spend £16 million on a Portuguese international At championship level and still be within the FFP rules. I think their spending over the summer was over £50 million wasn't it? Sounds to me like they're going all-in for promotion, looks like it might pay off too

[CotswoldRed]

17 hours ago, Big C said:

I do find it quite funny that a punishment for losing a lot of money is a massive fine 

That's the point. It isn't. 

It's for spending more money than permitted, even if they could afford to do so with gifts. 

[CotswoldRed]

1 minute ago, chipdawg said:

Financial prudence or not, you can't spend £16 million on a Portuguese international At championship level and still be within the FFP rules. I think their spending over the summer was over £50 million wasn't it? Sounds to me like they're going all-in for promotion, looks like it might pay off too

Promotion being rubber-stamped should be subject to validation. If they get promoted, it should be cancelled ahead of next season. 

[chipdawg]

26 minutes ago, CotswoldRed said:

Promotion being rubber-stamped should be subject to validation. If they get promoted, it should be cancelled ahead of next season. 

I think FFP runs over three years though, so in theory there's no breach of the rules unless they don't balance the books in a 3 year period. As Wolves were reasonably well run prior to this season, they're probably ok for a couple of years. I agree though, there's no real disincentive to teams spending massive amounts on a season-by-season basis and there should be

[MC RISK77]

And I am pretty sure it was harry redknapp who was their manager at the time. A man who could bankrupt any club...just look at Pompey...despise the bloke and can’t do anything without bucket loads of cash

[Mr Popodopolous]

@chipdawg @CotswoldRed

It all depends on the losses over 3 years- run well over prior 2 years, plus past savings all added in can help, means you can splurge in year 3.

Is it right? Probably not? Is it viable- may well be.

[Monkeh]

if they do pay the fine, the the entirety of that fine should be invested into grass routes football

[havanatopia]

On 10/25/2017 at 20:31, Big C said:

I do find it quite funny that a punishment for losing a lot of money is a massive fine 

It is actually for overspend as another poster I believe pointed out.

On 10/25/2017 at 22:21, ScottishRed said:

I don't know who ends up with the proceeds from the fine but I would not be surprised if at least part of it goes to those bastions of virtue - UEFA and FIFA!

I believe this is a Football League rule and them alone.

On 10/26/2017 at 07:14, 1960maaan said:

There is something about not being able to impose a fine on a business that will cause that business to cease trading, £40m against the worth of the club may do that. Now the owners are very rich, and they were the ones that got them in that position so I , if I were a QPR fan, would want them to stump up. While the managers spent money like it was going out of fashion, the owners had the last say. I had a quick read of this, a mate is a Rangers fan,  quite an interesting read.

https://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/queensparkrangers/news/46804

 

Definitely an owner issue; nothing to do with a manager who is merely asking and if he gets the nod he proceeds. The club itself, in terms of financials, should be ring fenced because it is the fans who 'own' the club in their support. No support = no club. The fine should be on the owner and the penalty, in leverage to get them to cough up, should be both a points deduction upon a certain date if they do not and the suspension of their directorship with the firm owning the club. The latter two should be sufficient penalty to force the payment issue because the fans will demand they pay before the points deduction commences. Amazing how beating someone with a stick tends to have relatively immediate impact.

Seems to me the system for fining a club does not have this leverage or the powers that be at the Football League (or is it the PL imposing this? I forgot) are for whatever reason reluctant to use it or, worse, stupid enough not to.

On 10/26/2017 at 14:16, MC RISK77 said:

And I am pretty sure it was harry redknapp who was their manager at the time. A man who could bankrupt any club...just look at Pompey...despise the bloke and can’t do anything without bucket loads of cash

Per above; this is a harsh comment to the extreme; the owners are the ones who should be intelligent enough to say yes or no to a transfer fee and, for sure, the buck stops with them. 

[Sydneybcfc]

If QPR won't pay the fine i'm not sure how enforceable it is, the only recourse in failure to pay would be to eject them from the league and refuse entry until paid.

That would leave them having to play Conference football (if accepted) until they paid it or at least cut a deal. Then they'd have to work their way back up.

[ScottishRed]

2 hours ago, Sydneybcfc said:

If QPR won't pay the fine i'm not sure how enforceable it is, the only recourse in failure to pay would be to eject them from the league and refuse entry until paid.

That would leave them having to play Conference football (if accepted) until they paid it or at least cut a deal. Then they'd have to work their way back up.

When all of this started with QPR I do recall reading somewhere that this could be the end game. I suspect that this still has years to run with as many delays and appeals as are possible - ultimately I am sure QPR will site PSG et al and ask the question on their compliance to FFP.

That will delay it for a few more years! 

[ScottishRed]

3 hours ago, havanatopia said:

It is actually for overspend as another poster I believe pointed out.

I believe this is a Football League rule and them alone.

Definitely an owner issue; nothing to do with a manager who is merely asking and if he gets the nod he proceeds. The club itself, in terms of financials, should be ring fenced because it is the fans who 'own' the club in their support. No support = no club. The fine should be on the owner and the penalty, in leverage to get them to cough up, should be both a points deduction upon a certain date if they do not and the suspension of their directorship with the firm owning the club. The latter two should be sufficient penalty to force the payment issue because the fans will demand they pay before the points deduction commences. Amazing how beating someone with a stick tends to have relatively immediate impact.

Seems to me the system for fining a club does not have this leverage or the powers that be at the Football League (or is it the PL imposing this? I forgot) are for whatever reason reluctant to use it or, worse, stupid enough not to.

Per above; this is a harsh comment to the extreme; the owners are the ones who should be intelligent enough to say yes or no to a transfer fee and, for sure, the buck stops with them. 

FFP is not an FL rule it is UEFA and FIFA legislation hence why I am sure that they will get a slice of any monies recovered.

[downendcity]

2 hours ago, Sydneybcfc said:

If QPR won't pay the fine i'm not sure how enforceable it is, the only recourse in failure to pay would be to eject them from the league and refuse entry until paid.

That would leave them having to play Conference football (if accepted) until they paid it or at least cut a deal. Then they'd have to work their way back up.

..and that's a problem because?

No good have penalties for an offence if they won't be enforced. 

 

[old_eastender]

QPR are still getting parachute payments this season and will do next season. Not quite sure how much that is but guess would pay off a sizeable chunk of that £40m, so can't see the fine would make them go broke.

[havanatopia]

1 hour ago, ScottishRed said:

FFP is not an FL rule it is UEFA and FIFA legislation hence why I am sure that they will get a slice of any monies recovered.

Ok that's news to me.

[Sydneybcfc]

1 hour ago, downendcity said:

..and that's a problem because?

No good have penalties for an offence if they won't be enforced. 

 

No problem at all, i just meant that the league 'possibly' can't send in the bailiffs or bankrupt them over the fine (possibly they can), which would only leave booting them out of the competition.

The same way teams can't come into the league if they don't meet certain criteria and have to remove standing after so many years in the championship or above. 

[Natchfever]

On 26/10/2017 at 00:13, Mr Popodopolous said:

I hope it gets enforced properly and is the start of something tbh.

PSG- they should unless they somehow make enough commercial revenue or have a bit of a relative firesale-  get clobbered next year. This is a whole different level obviously and clearly but...principle the same, gotta be enforced properly or it's useless.

I doubt any of the clubs at the top table will get clumped. PSG are buying their way into that gang but are clearly pissing all over FFP to do it.

[Ska Junkie]

As mentioned earlier, QPR reached the Premier league because they flouted the rules. IIRC, when they went up, they pretty much said 'we're Premier league now so it doesn't matter'. 

I've nothing against the R's per se but they have broken the rules massively, received / are receiving huge parachute payments and should be fined as it's essentially deception. 

Pleading poverty doesn't wash with me either as they spent money, illegally, to get the rewards upstairs so it's time to face the music IMHO. QPR are not a big club but tough, they've tried to act like one and failed.

As for Wolves, aren't a couple of their star players on loan with an agreement to purchase for big money if they go up? Very clever on their part TBH.

[ScottishRed]

1 hour ago, Ska Junkie said:

As mentioned earlier, QPR reached the Premier league because they flouted the rules. IIRC, when they went up, they pretty much said 'we're Premier league now so it doesn't matter'. 

I've nothing against the R's per se but they have broken the rules massively, received / are receiving huge parachute payments and should be fined as it's essentially deception. 

Pleading poverty doesn't wash with me either as they spent money, illegally, to get the rewards upstairs so it's time to face the music IMHO. QPR are not a big club but tough, they've tried to act like one and failed.

As for Wolves, aren't a couple of their star players on loan with an agreement to purchase for big money if they go up? Very clever on their part TBH.

Wolves chairman was quoted in an article last week saying that whilst they were aware of FFP it doesn't influence what they do.

My interpretation of that is ' we spend whatever we need to get promoted ' and hope we don't get relegated, as if we stay up the EPL wont enforce FFP.

IIRC the only EPL club punished under FFP was Man City in the same season as PSG - they had a fine but also were only allowed to have 20 players in their CL squad for the following season.

[Mr Popodopolous]

6 hours ago, Loon plage said:

I doubt any of the clubs at the top table will get clumped. PSG are buying their way into that gang but are clearly pissing all over FFP to do it.

Could happen next year... I was thinking just now if Platini and now his successor had any real guts it would have happened.

Certainly PSG and arguably some others...not solely stuck to teams from small Eastern European leagues or middle hitters with good capacity for growth e.g. Russian and Turkish Leagues.