Learning about the game

[chinapig]

7 minutes ago, Olé said:

+1 for The Mixer. Came out in the summer and read it while on holiday. Covers the 25 seasons of the Premier League by explaining a new innovation or tactic for each of the seasons. As well as explaining all key tactical evolutions and styles of football, it manages to wrap in tonnes of amazing facts and anecdote all the while still being completely readable as a flowing book on the evolution of football rather than a novelty/trivia compilation.

Also, instead of simply explaining the tactics (it is not a textbook, it's a supremely well written tour of the past 25 seasons) it reminds you of seismic shifts in the Premier League history that evidence key tactical changes (or points out hidden stats that prove them) so you're left completely clear which managers or players style is being referenced. It is quite easy to see a number of LJ's approaches explained and understand their origins. 

I fully expect a revised and updated version to be released on the 30th anniversary with a chapter on recent Premier League sensation Lee Johnson and the innovations of a new breed of modern English coach, perhaps highlighting the foundations laid by Eddie Howe and then Sean Dyche, before showing how Lee really reset the bar for English coaching. (This will give you an idea how the book works, the chapter on Sam Allardyce is excellent).

Thanks for this. I have long followed zonalmarking.net and heard a lot of Michael Cox on various podcasts in recent years so I'll be sure to get the book now

[BRISTOL86]

I know a guy who does a wicked PowerPoint 

[spudski]

Watch the movement off the ball...it tells you so much about a teams set up.

LJ recently quoted that he wants the team to play offensively with freedom and defensively like Robots. Which speaks volumes.

When defending or out of possession, watch how we regroup and get into position. How if someone moves, someone else moves to cover space that's left open or to close an angle.

Watch what triggers a movement. For an example...when an opposition player receives a pass at speed and has to control. This is when they are most vulnerable. Watch how we move in packs...often 3's. One pressing the player receiving the ball, the other two cutting out passing angles.

Watch how we rotate positions. Watch how if someone  comes inside off the line, someone else will replace and so on.

So much can be learnt when not watching the ball...and it's more noticeable when defending or out of possession.

Just a few easy suggestions that can be done on match day without having to go full bookworm ;-)

[Davefevs]

31 minutes ago, spudski said:

Watch what triggers a movement. For an example...when an opposition player receives a pass at speed and has to control. This is when they are most vulnerable. Watch how we move in packs...often 3's. One pressing the player receiving the ball, the other two cutting out passing angles.

If you watch back the Man Utd game, there’s a classic example of that in the build up to the Smith-chance (not the goal, the one where Blind tackles him just as he’s about to pull the trigger) just before half-time.  We hound them in a pack of 3, pinch the ball, and then launch an attack. 

[chinapig]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

If you watch back the Man Utd game, there’s a classic example of that in the build up to the Smith-chance (not the goal, the one where Blind tackles him just as he’s about to pull the trigger) just before half-time.  We hound them in a pack of 3, pinch the ball, and then launch an attack. 

What struck me in that game was how disciplined our pressing was. It's not about chasing everything down but choosing the right moment. Otherwise you waste energy to no purpose.

I was struck too by Lee saying he told Bobby to calm down after one late chase against Reading. The crowd loved it but Lee thought it was aimless.

[spudski]

13 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

If you watch back the Man Utd game, there’s a classic example of that in the build up to the Smith-chance (not the goal, the one where Blind tackles him just as he’s about to pull the trigger) just before half-time.  We hound them in a pack of 3, pinch the ball, and then launch an attack. 

Indeed mate.

Another thing we've been doing this season is breaking the lines quicker with a one touch pass.

Teams just aren't expecting it, rather expecting a sideways pass in front of them.

The late Smith goal was a prime example...hence the Utd defensive being static and not following Smith.

JB's continued run for his goal too. Precision one touch passing through the lines. It can be dodgy, especially if intercepted, but we seem dogged in defence when that happens and quickly get back into hounding the opposition.

The only time we become unstuck with that, is when our back four don't press high enough and allow room between them and our midfield.

This is why the opposition are getting opportunities too shoot.

Makes for exciting expansive games though :-)

[chinapig]

17 minutes ago, spudski said:

Indeed mate.

Another thing we've been doing this season is breaking the lines quicker with a one touch pass.

Teams just aren't expecting it, rather expecting a sideways pass in front of them.

The late Smith goal was a prime example...hence the Utd defensive being static and not following Smith.

JB's continued run for his goal too. Precision one touch passing through the lines. It can be dodgy, especially if intercepted, but we seem dogged in defence when that happens and quickly get back into hounding the opposition.

The only time we become unstuck with that, is when our back four don't press high enough and allow room between them and our midfield.

This is why the opposition are getting opportunities too shoot.

Makes for exciting expansive games though :-)

A joy to watch isn't it? You can imagine the amount of thought and practice that goes into it too.

A clear strategy, excellent analysts, fine coaches and receptive, hard working players. The perfect combination.

[spudski]

21 minutes ago, chinapig said:

A joy to watch isn't it? You can imagine the amount of thought and practice that goes into it too.

A clear strategy, excellent analysts, fine coaches and receptive, hard working players. The perfect combination.

It really is mate...I'm loving how we play, like you say, a joy to watch.

This is how I like my football played. Defending and pressing from the front with a clear strategy. With hard working players that are encouraged to express themselves within a structure.

For years, this Club has traditionally played with out and out wingers...regardless of what manager we had. Even before SL was owner. I got the impression it was something written into every managers contract before signing :laugh:. I've never worked it out.

Whilst sometimes exciting to watch, it's held us back imo. Always too wide open with a soft underbelly. Often overwhelmed in midfield.

Perhaps it was because we had such a wide pitch and managers thought that was the way to play here.

I really don't know...but imo, it seemed to be written in our make up as a club.

I'm so pleased we've found a different approach.

[chinapig]

12 minutes ago, spudski said:

It really is mate...I'm loving how we play, like you say, a joy to watch.

This is how I like my football played. Defending and pressing from the front with a clear strategy. With hard working players that are encouraged to express themselves within a structure.

For years, this Club has traditionally played with out and out wingers...regardless of what manager we had. Even before SL was owner. I got the impression it was something written into every managers contract before signing :laugh:. I've never worked it out.

Whilst sometimes exciting to watch, it's held us back imo. Always too wide open with a soft underbelly. Often overwhelmed in midfield.

Perhaps it was because we had such a wide pitch and managers thought that was the way to play here.

I really don't know...but imo, it seemed to be written in our make up as a club.

I'm so pleased we've found a different approach.

Don't get me started on the obsession with wingers!

There was a time under GJ and KM when there was outrage on here if one of ours so much as moved an inch from the touchline. 

I remember the angry response when Keith said that width was a bit of a myth too.

Fortunately our game and fans seem to have moved on from the standard English model of two wingers hitting hopeful crosses towards a big man. Now if can just get rid of the belief that passion is what wins you games we might be getting somewhere.

[Robbored]

On 26/12/2017 at 08:28, Maesknoll Red said:

Also, when watching a game (live, it doesn’t really work on TV) pick a player to watch, rather than the ball.  You’ll then appreciate a lot more of what happens off the ball, as regards positioning, pulling players out of position, creating space, etc. etc.  Years ago when someone told me about this, I found it an interesting way to watch a game, you see things that you inevitably miss when your eyes follow the ball for 90 minutes.

Good tip but very difficult to do.

I try every game but end up following the ball! 

[Davefevs]

Nice posts @spudski and @chinapig.  I think a few of us thought we'd play a bit of ‘wingless wonders" this season.  Pato and Brownhill coming inside to join up with whoever played up front, allowing Pisano and Bryan to create the wide overlap...essentially leaving Pack and / or Smith to ‘stay at home’ and provide cover.  We attacked more as 6 made up of 2 FBs, 2 WMs and 2 STs, occasionally supported by Smith.

What we’ve probably seen more lately (possibly due to Pisano’s injury and Wright’s lesser footballing ability and the more recent Bryan move onto LM, Mags at LB and Pato in behind) is more fluid movement in the front 6, as we’ve played 4 CBs.  No surprise Smith and Pack have got on the scoresheet, and in Pack’s case he had 4 chances to get away shots v Forest - he did pass on 2 occasions.  Smith has been getting into more advanced positions too.

This is difficult to defend against, especially as you say Spud, when we make a quick pass through the lines...this is made more successful when you have a player like a Pato who has good technical ability off both feet.  You can give and go with belief you’ll get the return pass.

Sometimes we have to be patient, like Reading.  First half we were solid, probing away without joy (it happens) and I think second half we ground them down, aided by the intro of Pato initially and then Woodrow who got the ball to stick.  Fair play to Reading they put us under a fair bit of pressure with Van der Berg’s raking balls from deep and then midfield’s desire to bust a gut to win the loose ball and therefore possession in advanced areas against a back-pedalling midfield.  We sucked it up in the main.  Wasn’t like last season where Reading passed and passed knowing they’d create the slide rule pass that would open up the scoring chance.  We were compact.  Their two chances of note were from a mishit Aluko shot that fell to Barrow (who should’ve scored) and from a misjudged jump from Flint.  That’s where we’ve improved this season.  We might give half chances, but we rarely give away gilt edged chances.

Goals conceded of late:

Fulham 0

QPR - Flint og from good delivery, unlucky

Man Utd - direct free-kick (soft foul aided by a dive) that took a deflection that altered the ball-flight.  Steele would’ve got a hand on the initial line of flight.  He did make some other good saves but it was against MU for god’s sake 

Forest - worldie deflection from Dowell

Boro - Mags og

In summary, our attacking has got better, more structured around fluid movement (bit contradictory) and our defence is more solid.

That is why this team is going to stay the distance.

[chinapig]

1 minute ago, Robbored said:

Good tip but very difficult to do.

I try every game but end up following the ball! 

Hard to do when you are supporting one of the teams. Easier when you are a neutral.

I watched the Utd game again the next day though with the aim of watching Marlon Pack, who I felt had been the key player. He was even better than I thought at the time. A masterclass from an often underappreciated player.