Atmosphere and support in general.

[Phileas Fogg]

1 hour ago, Leveller said:

Also, back in the day, young kids could get in on their own for the price of a comic and a bar of chocolate! Pricing is key and won’t change, however much we argue that it could and should.

 

I actually think our deals for kids aren't bad. Children's season tickets are great value and we cater very well for families. I agree with @Welcome To The Jungle that prices for teenagers aren't great, but I'm not even sure what age you're allowed to come to games without an adult?

Problem is the young adult bracket like I said, we don't do enough to attract that age bracket. It's not even necessarily a pricing thing, although I feel our matchday POTD prices are a tad high, it's more the marketing.

[Welcome To The Jungle]

7 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I actually think our deals for kids aren't bad. Children's season tickets are great value and we cater very well for families. I agree with @Welcome To The Jungle that prices for teenagers aren't great, but I'm not even sure what age you're allowed to come to games without an adult?

Problem is the young adult bracket like I said, we don't do enough to attract that age bracket. It's not even necessarily a pricing thing, although I feel our matchday POTD prices are a tad high, it's more the marketing.

Our ST prices are good for children. But that isn't going to attract new fans, particularly if neither of your parents are fans of City. The vast majority of people inside Ashton Gate were taken to their first City game by a family member or friend. Only a few decide to just 'give it a go' one day. The clubs best marketing tool for attracting new fans is us. 

Billboards are all well and good but mean nothing if you don't support the club already, the same with our social media. Therefore I think that the club should make it as easy as possible for us to bring others and incentivise us to do so. One part of that is making POTD reasonable, but particularly for teens when they start getting independence.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

10 minutes ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

Our ST prices are good for children. But that isn't going to attract new fans, particularly if neither of your parents are fans of City. The vast majority of people inside Ashton Gate were taken to their first City game by a family member or friend. Only a few decide to just 'give it a go' one day. The clubs best marketing tool for attracting new fans is us. 

Billboards are all well and good but mean nothing if you don't support the club already, the same with our social media. Therefore I think that the club should make it as easy as possible for us to bring others and incentivise us to do so. One part of that is making POTD reasonable, but particularly for teens when they start getting independence.

 

Yes I agree. I think the club are great at catering to families and have nailed that demographic.

Billboards and social media are fine for spreading awareness, especially if you strike gold like we did with the Gif thing. Billboards good for putting us in people's minds. Would be great if we managed to get some really good advertising real estate such as near Cabot Circus or Temple Meads for this reason. Keeping us in people's minds does help but that's as a more general marketing tool for all demographics.

I think you're right about incentives, especially for that 18-35 age group I mentioned. Even a reduced 'mates rate' for a few games a season and maybe a couple of drink vouchers thrown in. Would be worth it in my opinion.

I don't think there's the infrastructure to have a big drive to get teenagers down on their own. I haven't looked but I wouldn't be surprised if there's a minimum age you can attend on your own - might be 16 or something. That's a big spanner in the works. Pricing too like you've mentioned.. also even things like public transport are a problem. 

[SARJ]

On 2/11/2018 at 10:39, Jack Dawe said:

People are there, at the game, in good numbers, not at home in the warm/dry watching rugby, so that's a positive. They care enough to be there.

But they've paid a lot of money to be there, and so, as a result, this tends to create a: 'here we are now, entertain us' mindset. The more you pay for something, the more you expect in return. You don't spend £32 on a meal out and help with the washing up.

You cannot ignore the impact on this issue of people paying proportionately more than they did 30 years ago, to watch young men being paid something like £10k a week, sometimes more.

And people are more comfortable at AG now, they are sat in a comfortable seat, and a 'couch potato' mindset, and beerbelly laziness, is difficult to avoid. 

Add to this the lure of the concourse, the alcohol awaiting you there, and the edible hot, warming, comforting food and drinks. Mmmmmm. And the screens to keep you up to date with what's going on. And the toilets! The toilets nowadays you could eat your hot, warming, comfortable food in, compared to the toilets of yesteryear.

And the smartphones - the addictive distraction of smartphones. With all the scores, and all the other things going on that cannot wait 90 minutes for you to be aware of. Or the corner/freekick you have to film for your matchday vlog in case it leads to a goal, you don't want to miss that by standing up clapping your hands and singing a song. Other people can do that.

And the general morass of middle age about the place, with middle aged spread - all that standing up, singing and shouting, that's behind us now, we've done that - we did stand up and shout v Man Utd, cmon on! - who wants to embarrass themselves?! Never mind the effort! Remember the cringy bloke that did the song about Johnson's coat? Dear god, what a . Glad I don't sit near him! 

And then there is our general West Country diffidence - we just are not as demonstrative as people in other parts of the country.

 

That we had a great noise v Man Utd, and good backing v QPR, that it happens even once or twice a season, in this 21st century modernised comfortable allseater poundforpound more expensive than ever before football we have today - with nice toilets - is something to cling on to, and be happy about.

Finally, on standing/sitting: I attended a concert at the Colston Hall recently, with a large chorus. Everytime the conductor wanted the chrus to sing, he motioned for them to stand up. Then, when they had finished, he motioned to them to sit down. And this went on the whole time. Sit down: not singing; stand up: singing. Why he couldn't have them singing sitting down, I don't know. I suppose he knew what he was doing. 

 

Very long post but yeah, this guy got it spot on. Modern football and evaporation of enthusiasm after the cup run is to blame.

[SARJ]

11 hours ago, Leveller said:

Perhaps I can express a completely alien point of view that wil probably be met with dismay on OTIB, which seems mainly to represent supporters who admire S82, and think it’s the duty of football fans to sing songs etc. However, as you’ll be aware, the majority of fans at AG (and most other grounds) don’t actually behave like that. I’m one of those and I make no apologies about it.

You say “The main reason I go is to sing and shout and call the keeper a ****” and go on to say you may give up in favour of travelling to matches in Germany where the crowds are louder. I can’t identify with that. I go mainly to watch football, particularly my team and chat to my neighbours. Perhaps your tastes could just as well be met in the mosh pit at a metal gig? That’s a serious point - I enjoy singing along in a big crowd at Glastonbury, but not so much at football. I certainly can’t understand the crowd being more important than watching your own team.

I like atmosphere, but mostly when it is organic - ie generated by exciting football. I don’t mind noise coming from other parts of the ground but don’t feel any duty to get it going artificially where I sit (and yes, I sit). I’ve stood or sat as near as possible to the halfway line since first coming to AG in 1968.

What do I think of singing sections? Well when they’re good, they’re excellent - the Kop singing “You’ll never walk alone” can be spine tingling. But most clubs’ supporters never reach this levels. I enjoyed being in the big crowd at the Etihad but often when forced into singing sections at away games I don’t really enjoy it so much. 

This is partly because I find being behind the goal odd - a view I’m not used to and don’t like. Then - and this may baffle you - I find being in a section that is constantly singing actually distracting. I concentrate on watching the game and being in a group that is more interested in making a noise (and sometimes watching the opposition fans) makes me feel cut off from the football itself. I’ve been in the back row at Fulham when we were winning and the noise was impressive and fun in a way, but it did feel a bit like watching the match on a distant TV in a noisy pub with the sound turned off. It seemed a long way away. That part of the crowd often seems a bit self absorbed to me too.  Also, 90% of the songs are poor and the witty ones cease to be funny after the third hearing, let alone the hundred and third.

In summary, I like feeling close to the football and while I understand the sense of belonging you may get in S82 or similar, that seems a bit teenage to me, and not something I need. I’m happy with occasional roars when the whole crowd is getting behind the team. Yes I’d much rather be in the middle of the Lansdown than in S82.

As I say, I don’t expect many on OTIB to identify with me on this, but I expect many devoted and regular fans feel as I do. Please respect our views and accept that we don’t have a duty to feel the way you do, or to join in when you want us to.

Fair play and each to his own. Work with a lot of ST holders who share the same views; they go purely for the football and nothing else. Literally rock up to the Gate 15mins before KO, watch the game without any alcohol (usually bring their own food/coffee flask) then go straight home at the final whistle. If that's what you like then fair play.

Speaking personally if you took the social side away, the pre-match beers, meeting up with friends, atmosphere etc. I probably wouldn't attend any more.

[Welcome To The Jungle]

17 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Yes I agree. I think the club are great at catering to families and have nailed that demographic.

Billboards and social media are fine for spreading awareness, especially if you strike gold like we did with the Gif thing. Billboards good for putting us in people's minds. Would be great if we managed to get some really good advertising real estate such as near Cabot Circus or Temple Meads for this reason. Keeping us in people's minds does help but that's as a more general marketing tool for all demographics.

I think you're right about incentives, especially for that 18-35 age group I mentioned. Even a reduced 'mates rate' for a few games a season and maybe a couple of drink vouchers thrown in. Would be worth it in my opinion.

I don't think there's the infrastructure to have a big drive to get teenagers down on their own. I haven't looked but I wouldn't be surprised if there's a minimum age you can attend on your own - might be 16 or something. That's a big spanner in the works. Pricing too like you've mentioned.. also even things like public transport are a problem. 

I think this is a big un. I've always lived in BS3 so I've always been able to walk to Ashton Gate. If I had been brought up in Hartcliffe, or even Knowle, I'd probably think twice about going as the buses are grim and it'd be too far to walk. 

Perhaps it is a question for @Matt Parsons BCFCSLO as to whether or not there is a specific marketing strategy for under 18s that are not already ST holders. One idea could be selling/giving away free tickets through the schools that come with a coach ticket from outside their school on a Saturday to and from the ground. Although my old man took me to my first City game, it was the free tickets from the school that got me going again and again. 

[Phileas Fogg]

3 minutes ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

One idea could be selling/giving away free tickets through the schools that come with a coach ticket from outside their school on a Saturday to and from the ground. Although my old man took me to my first City game, it was the free tickets from the school that got me going again and again. 

I think it's a great idea but given the world we live in there'd no doubt be plenty of safeguarding red tape to get past to make that happen.

[Welcome To The Jungle]

5 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I think it's a great idea but given the world we live in there'd no doubt be plenty of safeguarding red tape to get past to make that happen.

Would be interesting to explore. The amount of children that get on first buses and trains every morning unsupervised means there can't be loads...surely. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

On the atmosphere and ticket fronts a few thoughts.

Tickets prices in this country are nuts tbh. On one hand that does reflect the depth of the game, but still they are well overpriced IMO. At most levels (not been to Non League in a while, assume that's still reasonably sensible). I agree with PF that our youth prices are some of the better, absolutely...but when you have such sharp rises, it may not retain so many. No reflection on the club either, more a reflection in terms of the way football has gone in the UK. Aging fanbases and surging ticket prices across the board in UK...it ain't a coincidence.

Atmosphere...has been poor in the League in 2018. Hell, we made a lot more noise in the succession of home games when it was the real crunch last year v Wolves, QPR and Barnsley and yet we were in a relegation battle, right in the thick of one. When we've had the season we've had and I get after Lord Mayor's Show etc, but after the season we've had and so much still to play for, it's really been quite poor considering...

[ZiderEyed]

21 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

On the atmosphere and ticket fronts a few thoughts.

Tickets prices in this country are nuts tbh. On one hand that does reflect the depth of the game, but still they are well overpriced IMO. At most levels (not been to Non League in a while, assume that's still reasonably sensible). I agree with PF that our youth prices are some of the better, absolutely...but when you have such sharp rises, it may not retain so many. No reflection on the club either, more a reflection in terms of the way football has gone in the UK. Aging fanbases and surging ticket prices across the board in UK...it ain't a coincidence.

Atmosphere...has been poor in the League in 2018. Hell, we made a lot more noise in the succession of home games when it was the real crunch last year v Wolves, QPR and Barnsley and yet we were in a relegation battle, right in the thick of one. When we've had the season we've had and I get after Lord Mayor's Show etc, but after the season we've had and so much still to play for, it's really been quite poor considering...

A Weston-super-Mare season ticket is £120. Hilariously, still more than Bayern Munich and Barcelona.

[CTIDhc]

Personally, I feel that getting more 16-25 year olds in the ground would be a major boost in terms of atmosphere. Whenever me and my city mate are at a friends for a bit of a piss up we always end up singing City songs and the others(non city fans) will even join in. Young adults just love to feel involved in a group and make noise, shout, sing and bounce etc. If more people my age can be attracted to the gate the first place they'll want to be will be in S82 with all the lads. IMO

[Matt Parsons]

2 hours ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

I think this is a big un. I've always lived in BS3 so I've always been able to walk to Ashton Gate. If I had been brought up in Hartcliffe, or even Knowle, I'd probably think twice about going as the buses are grim and it'd be too far to walk. 

Perhaps it is a question for @Matt Parsons BCFCSLO as to whether or not there is a specific marketing strategy for under 18s that are not already ST holders. One idea could be selling/giving away free tickets through the schools that come with a coach ticket from outside their school on a Saturday to and from the ground. Although my old man took me to my first City game, it was the free tickets from the school that got me going again and again. 

Hi there, 

I've asked marketing to make me aware of any planned incentives for under 18's. I know we have the £1 a kid in place for Sheffield Wednesday. 

https://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/quid-a-kid-offer-for-owls-clash-in-march/

A number of tickets are given out through community to local groups and schools so this does happen.

Matt 

[Phileas Fogg]

6 minutes ago, Matt Parsons BCFCSLO said:

Hi there, 

I've asked marketing to make me aware of any planned incentives for under 18's. I know we have the £1 a kid in place for Sheffield Wednesday. 

https://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/quid-a-kid-offer-for-owls-clash-in-march/

A number of tickets are given out through community to local groups and schools so this does happen.

Matt 

Hi @Matt Parsons BCFCSLO,

I know we've got plenty of things for kids. I don't think WTTJ means that really, he was talking about 15-18 year olds who are perhaps old enough to go on their own.

Is their a minimum age for teenagers to attend on their own?

Thanks

[Welcome To The Jungle]

8 minutes ago, Matt Parsons BCFCSLO said:

Hi there, 

I've asked marketing to make me aware of any planned incentives for under 18's. I know we have the £1 a kid in place for Sheffield Wednesday. 

https://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/quid-a-kid-offer-for-owls-clash-in-march/

A number of tickets are given out through community to local groups and schools so this does happen.

Matt 

This was so key for me as my Dad wasn't a City fan till I started dragging him along, although he did first introduce me. I would have attended so many fewer games as a kid without them.

[reddoc]

We just need to get a block full of North Korean schoolgirls.

[Coxy27]

1 hour ago, ZiderEyed said:

A Weston-super-Mare season ticket is £120. Hilariously, still more than Bayern Munich and Barcelona.

These sorts of comparisons are made quite a lot.

It doesn't take a genius to work out why the pricing might be similar really, does it?

[ZiderEyed]

2 minutes ago, Coxy27 said:

These sorts of comparisons are made quite a lot.

It doesn't take a genius to work out why the pricing might be similar really, does it?

Personally can't see why a season ticket for 6th tier English football should be more expensive than a season ticket for 2 of the best teams in the world.

Unless I'm being a ******* idiot and missing something glaringly obvious, it's not right.

[Welcome To The Jungle]

3 minutes ago, ZiderEyed said:

Personally can't see why a season ticket for 6th tier English football should be more expensive than a season ticket for 2 of the best teams in the world.

Unless I'm being a ******* idiot and missing something glaringly obvious, it's not right.

I agree, however I'd not blame WSM at all. Non-league clubs typically operate very close to the red and so they have no financial flexibility. In addition they boast almost no power to change things. Mangotsfield STs are about that too. 

What is obvious though is Bayern and Barcelona see real value in their supporters as both could charge much much more, but chose not to. £350 for the cheapest City ST is astronomical too. We however have the flexibility that WSM don't. My broken record line of Huddersfield got promoted last season charging £179 for anywhere in the ground. We're meant to be owned by a financial genius, but cannot, or more likely refuse to, replicate that.

[Coxy27]

10 minutes ago, ZiderEyed said:

Personally can't see why a season ticket for 6th tier English football should be more expensive than a season ticket for 2 of the best teams in the world.

Unless I'm being a ******* idiot and missing something glaringly obvious, it's not right.

Well I obviously can't give specifics, as I wasn't involved in choosing the prices. However, the point is that the price is not necessarily related solely to the quality of the football on offer.

Bayern and Barca can offer subsidised tickets as they have so many other sources of income, season ticket sales are only a fraction.

Weston's ticket sales prop the club up, take them away and they would fold. 

[ZiderEyed]

1 minute ago, Coxy27 said:

Well I obviously can't give specifics, as I wasn't involved in choosing the prices. However, the point is that the price is not necessarily related solely to the quality of the football on offer.

Bayern and Barca can offer subsidised tickets as they have so many other sources of income, season ticket sales are only a fraction.

Weston's ticket sales prop the club up, take them away and they would fold. 

Fair point actually.

[Red-Robbo]

4 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I actually think our deals for kids aren't bad. Children's season tickets are great value and we cater very well for families. I agree with @Welcome To The Jungle that prices for teenagers aren't great, but I'm not even sure what age you're allowed to come to games without an adult?

Problem is the young adult bracket like I said, we don't do enough to attract that age bracket. It's not even necessarily a pricing thing, although I feel our matchday POTD prices are a tad high, it's more the marketing.

I think you're getting to the crux of the problem with that post. 

Where I sit, there average age in the whole block must be 62. There are a few younger men, but a whole swathe is "baby boomer" pension age guys.

Nothing wrong with that, but it reflects the fact that now pensioners - particularly "young" pensioners - are usually cash rich but young working people are usually not. It's the reverse of what was the norm 30 or 40 years ago.

The old guys show their support, but for all sorts of reasons are never going to make as much noise as a bunch of young guys.   I reckon the prices in English football now make it an expensive day out and, as a result, the average age of the crowd has shifted dramatically upwards.  Result - a much quieter stadium.

[Phileas Fogg]

12 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

I think you're getting to the crux of the problem with that post. 

Where I sit, there average age in the whole block must be 62. There are a few younger men, but a whole swathe is "baby boomer" pension age guys.

Nothing wrong with that, but it reflects the fact that now pensioners - particularly "young" pensioners - are usually cash rich but young working people are usually not. It's the reverse of what was the norm 30 or 40 years ago.

The old guys show their support, but for all sorts of reasons are never going to make as much noise as a bunch of young guys.   I reckon the prices in English football now make it an expensive day out and, as a result, the average age of the crowd has shifted dramatically upwards.  Result - a much quieter stadium.

Yep, I agree. Where I am in the Dolman I'd say the average age is probably over 50. Definitely not many 18-35 year old males anyway!

I think that group is optimum, generally speaking they'll be working but may not have the financial commitments of others so can afford to spend on games, away trips and refreshments at the game should they wish.

I am fairly near S82 and based on what I can see I would be shocked if the average age of s82 doesn't fall somewhere between 25-35 which would prove what both of us are saying.

If you want atmosphere, that has to be the age range you attract. Most of those 50+ have been there and done it and may not be bothered to stand and sing anymore!

[Ivorguy]

If we continue to get the size of crowd we have been getting this season there will be no change in pricing, because income is the bottom line.

One group not mentioned are pensioners like me who live so far away from Bristol that a trip to Ashton Gate is a very expensive project: petrol, meals, overnight stay, plus ticket. And at the end of it may see 90 minutes of dross.

Better to see away matches if possible.  This has two benefits:- 

1. Little expectation of victory

2. Great support from City fans, those who travel from Bristol and exiles. A real sense of camaraderie, not often found at Ashton Gate.

and, of course, it's cheaper!

[Mr Popodopolous]

15 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

If we continue to get the size of crowd we have been getting this season there will be no change in pricing, because income is the bottom line.

One group not mentioned are pensioners like me who live so far away from Bristol that a trip to Ashton Gate is a very expensive project: petrol, meals, overnight stay, plus ticket. And at the end of it may see 90 minutes of dross.

Better to see away matches if possible.  This has two benefits:- 

1. Little expectation of victory

2. Great support from City fans, those who travel from Bristol and exiles. A real sense of camaraderie, not often found at Ashton Gate.

and, of course, it's cheaper!

Not in my experience, admittedly I last went away semi often about 7 years ago, plenty sat down and were quite quiet- different this year probably. Charlton away 2 years back was good though!

@Phileas Fogg @Red-Robbo

Certainly agree with these points you 2 made. Especially the age range, price, disposable income..it's how the game's gone in the UK last 15-20, maybe longer though.