Ashton/SL speak to Dean Smith now

[JBFC II]

3 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

‘ Incredible ‘ ??????

Really ?

Not suggesting we should change and it simply won’t happen but in a different scenario that performance today would get a football manager sacked 

I'd say going from 3 points off relegation and losing the one reason we didn't go down in the summer to being one point off the play offs with 6 games to go is incredible, yes

[tinman85]

1 hour ago, Beni71 said:

Brentford are below us. 

Not for long. 

[The Bard]

2 hours ago, JBFC II said:

Bit of an overreaction, we were dreadful for one game but we are still 7th and on a small budget, the turnaround has been amazing

The turnaround is history now.  We are on a 3 month slide in case you haven't noticed. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

4 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

I'd say going from 3 points off relegation and losing the one reason we didn't go down in the summer to being one point off the play offs with 6 games to go is incredible, yes

But you realise he was the same manager who had us just escaping relegation last year ?

Been allowed to recruit 30 or so players , many of whom are rarely used

Incredible ?

Not a Description I’d use

I might use it to describe the fact that we can go from The pre Xmas performances to that pathetic shambles today ‘incredible’

[Donkeeebles]

2 hours ago, tinman85 said:

No I am in reality! Not burying my head in the sand. Lee Johnson is not good enough. 

So if 7th in the league isn't good enough what is? 

[JBFC II]

13 minutes ago, The Bard said:

The turnaround is history now.  We are on a 3 month slide in case you haven't noticed. 

I had noticed... 

I don't quite see how being 10 places and a load of points higher than last season is history to be honest. Every club looks for progression, and when you compare now to last season, we have shown progression if you hadn't noticed

[reddoc]

25 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

I'd say going from 3 points off relegation and losing the one reason we didn't go down in the summer to being one point off the play offs with 6 games to go is incredible, yes

Ahh the old 'choosing moments in time' sort of incredible. I'd suggest seeing where we finish this season, with where we finished last, and then using a slightly more restrained adjective. 

[Jack Dawe]

4 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

I had noticed... 

I don't quite see how being 10 places and a load of points higher than last season is history to be honest. Every club looks for progression, and when you compare now to last season, we have shown progression if you hadn't noticed

The problem with this line of thinking is that last season, and the season before that, were very poor, and not really a yardstick by which to judge this season. That thinking like this opens the door for complacency, and acceptance of mediocrity.

As Millwall have shown, and Preston and Barnsley before them, and countless other low budget sides in this division, you don't need tens of millions to be organised, motivated, together, fit, tactically astute, able to see games out, cute in recruitment, etc etc. 

At some point, if we want to be successful, we need to stop relying on: we're doing better than last season when we were desperately fighting off relegation! And: we've got a small budget. Particularly when your CEO has been in the paper and talked up a "no excuses" culture.

And the time to stop is now. If we are serious about doing something exciting at this level.

[JBFC II]

1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

But you realise he was the same manager who had us just escaping relegation last year ?

Been allowed to recruit 30 or so players , many of whom are rarely used

Incredible ?

Not a Description I’d use

I might use it to describe the fact that we can go from The pre Xmas performances to that pathetic shambles today ‘incredible’

I do realise that yes, he has recruited some poor players, but he has recruited players for the long run. The likes of Moore, Eliasson, Engvall are still only 20/21 and so have many years ahead of them. I agree that some of his signings (Kent, Diony, Woodrow, Hegeler) have proved poor judgement, but he has made some very astute signings on a comparatively small budget.

You should also remember that a few of those signings have come because we are small fry in this league so our better players are going to get snapped up by other clubs (Kodjia, Ayling), therefore he has to replace them. Also, some players who he has signed, who everyone on here thought would prove to be good signings, haven't turned out to be the case for one reason or another (Matthews, Tomlin, O'Neil).

What other description would you use then to describe the progression of the club from 3 points off relegation last season to being safe by February this season, pushing for the plays offs, getting to the Semi-Finals of a major tournament and averaging 21000 people every week.)

Of course the run of form over the past 3 months has been poor, there is no denying that, but if you'd have offered 7th at the start of the season any of us would have taken it, obviously compared to where we were before the Wolves game it's disappointing but I'd still say it's an incredible turnaround

[cidered abroad]

3 hours ago, Wanderingred said:

I wouldn't say he can't change it.. I mean in the space of 2 years he's managed to turn a team heading for relegation under Cotts into a playoff chasing one by late 2016. Then back again...Then back again.. and now possibly back again. We all know LJ can turn bad form around , it just seems to be everything or nothing under him. We are either world beaters or utter utter dogpoo. Baffling.

So which is LJ responsible for? 

The world beaters or utter dog poo? 

Difficult to tell as it's about 50/50 at the moment. 

[Curr Avon]

47 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

I had noticed... 

I don't quite see how being 10 places and a load of points higher than last season is history to be honest. Every club looks for progression, and when you compare now to last season, we have shown progression if you hadn't noticed

Unfortunately, we've taken what appeared to be an ocean liner and are rapidly turning it into a shipwreck.

We lack the ruthlessness of other clubs and have poured money away on ineffective loan signings when experience was needed.

Add that to poor team selections and since Christmas our best chance of Premier League football in a decade appears to have ebbed away.

People who are happy with progress, on that basis, are content with second best and reflect the upper management of BCFC.

[Baldyman]

I'm genuinely concerned that LJ just doesn't have enough in his kit bag to manage at this level . Was seemingly doing a great job from Aug- December when had no options whatsoever due to our injury list . We now have Fammy, Milan, Eros, all back so neither the team nor tactics pick themselves anymore and LJ is found wanting . Who in their right mind throws 2 Rookies into midfield in such a critical game ? At the same time playing the fella who's played all season at RB at left CB ! Like it or not SL should look at the last couple of months and ask some seriously tough questions ! 

[JBFC II]

1 minute ago, Curr Avon said:

Unfortunately, we've taken what appeared to be an ocean liner and are rapidly turning it into a shipwreck.

We lack the ruthlessness of other clubs and have poured money away on ineffective loan signings when experience was needed.

Add that to poor team selections and since Christmas our best chance of Premier League football appears to have ebbed away.

People who are happy with progress, on that basis, are content with second best and reflect the upper management of BCFC.

I am happy with the progress, on and off the pitch great progress has been made. I don't think anyone is content with 2nd best but going gung ho to get into the premiership would only lead to failure, by building the club up to become Premiership quality is a much more secure way of doing it.

I completely get what you are saying with experience, but any experienced championship player available in January is going to have a load of suitors, who will have much more money to spend than us, the loan signings of Woodrow, Diony and Kent have al proved to be misinformed and none of those 3 have turned out to be the right player, but who's to say we didn't have other more experienced targets (Grabban, Jerome etc) who were snapped up by bigger clubs?

[Major Isewater]

34 minutes ago, Donkeeebles said:

So if 7th in the league isn't good enough what is? 

Wake up it's where we're heading if things don't change quickly.

 We are in RELEGATION form, why ? 

 

[Tin Soldier]

Yes - would have taken 7th - we will finish 10th’ish.

But Johnson does have to improve his tactics and game plan skills for this league. Currently he looks like he is struggling to find a Plan B. The midfield has struggled to break down sides like Brentford all season. Very little creativity IMO. You just cannot argue otherwise. Today, like several games this year, he has been found out by oppo managers. Brentford were set up pretty well today, infact they look a well balanced side to do well next season, if they find a striker?

Our lot, well what can you say - awful. 

[LondonBristolian]

1. Whether or not LJ is the right man for the job, there is no way anyone can say we have treaded water over the past five years .

2. I am not sure Brentford operate on a shoestring budget.

3. Brentford were competing around the play offs under other managers before Smith took charge.

4. Before he got the Brentford job, Walsall supporters were frustrated with Dean Smith as they felt the club were to treading water.

5. We are above Brentford in the table.

6. Dean Smith’s record is basically taking mid table clubs to mid table.

I sympathise with fans’ frustrations over the past few months and can understand why some people are thinking of a change. But is a moderately experienced manager who sometimes plays decent football and tends not to go get relegated or promoted REALLY an upgrade - or even a change - on what we have now?

 

[BobBobSuperBob]

15 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

I do realise that yes, he has recruited some poor players, but he has recruited players for the long run. The likes of Moore, Eliasson, Engvall are still only 20/21 and so have many years ahead of them. I agree that some of his signings (Kent, Diony, Woodrow, Hegeler) have proved poor judgement, but he has made some very astute signings on a comparatively small budget.

You should also remember that a few of those signings have come because we are small fry in this league so our better players are going to get snapped up by other clubs (Kodjia, Ayling), therefore he has to replace them. Also, some players who he has signed, who everyone on here thought would prove to be good signings, haven't turned out to be the case for one reason or another (Matthews, Tomlin, O'Neil).

What other description would you use then to describe the progression of the club from 3 points off relegation last season to being safe by February this season, pushing for the plays offs, getting to the Semi-Finals of a major tournament and averaging 21000 people every week.)

Of course the run of form over the past 3 months has been poor, there is no denying that, but if you'd have offered 7th at the start of the season any of us would have taken it, obviously compared to where we were before the Wolves game it's disappointing but I'd still say it's an incredible turnaround

I’ll nail my colours to the mast and predict (Accept there are lots of ifs and butsto come) that Moore and Engvall will never make it here and may never make another appearance between them

Walsh as it stands I can’t ever see being a regular starter

Eliasson could go either way

I don’t quite get the hype over Duric and still don’t see him as a regular starter

 

Hegeler - don’t see he has a future here

Matty Taylor - no long term future here

The loanees - awful contibutions

if  I am in any way accurate that’s a fair few million that a Club of our size can ill  afford to waste JBFC

 

Btw - we got shut of Ayling (  ) - he wasn’t poached off us

 

 

As for (Your fair / reasonable question)

‘ What other description would you use then to describe the progression of the club from 3 points off relegation last season to being safe by February this season, pushing for the plays offs, getting to the Semi-Finals of a major tournament and averaging 21000 people every week.)

 

 

Id say we are stronger than last season but I would have expected any half reasonable manager to have done so with the recruitment he’s been allowed

To his credit - earlier in the season he had us playing some of the best football I’ve ever seen from a City side so big credit for that

(This did coincide with a way of playing and selection that was dictated to by lack of options - Coincidence ? Who knows ?)

What I would say is any half decent side / squad do not perform as e have done in the last 3 months or produce that embarrassment today so that for me is a major worry - it smashes a massive hole IMHO in the idea that we have significantly progressed (Certainly when judged / considered against the backing he’s had)

Im not suggesting we should consider changing but it may be worth considering how other managers with the same backin* here might be doing with the same backing 

He’s not overly lauded on here but as he’s topical - How do you think Micjpk McCarthy migh5 do with the backing and set up Lee has (My personal view is he’d have us at least where we are now)

[Donkeeebles]

3 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Wake up it's where we're heading if things don't change quickly.

 We are in RELEGATION form, why ? 

 

"Wake up" 

Why because I'm capable of looking at a season as a whole and not just part of it? 

No I'm good thanks

[JBFC II]

3 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I’ll nail my colours to the mast and predict (Accept there are lots of ifs and butsto come) that Moore and Engvall will never make it here and may never make another appearance between them

Walsh as it stands I can’t ever see being a regular starter

Eliasson could go either way

I don’t quite get the hype over Duric and still don’t see him as a regular starter

 

Hegeler - don’t see he has a future here

Matty Taylor - no long term future here

The loanees - awful contibutions

if  I am in any way accurate that’s a fair few million that a Club of our size can ill  afford to waste JBFC

 

Btw - we got shut of Ayling (  ) - he wasn’t poached off us

 

As for 

As for 

‘ What other description would you use then to describe the progression of the club from 3 points off relegation last season to being safe by February this season, pushing for the plays offs, getting to the Semi-Finals of a major tournament and averaging 21000 people every week.)

Id say we are stronger than last season but I would have expected any half reasonable manager to have done so with the recruitment he’s been allowed

To his credit - earlier in the season he had us playing some of the best football I’ve ever seen from a City side so big credit for that

(This did coincide with a way of playing and selection that was dictated to by lack of options - Coincidence ? Who knows ?)

What I would say is any half decent side / squad do not perform as e have done in the last 3 months or produce that embarrassment today so that for me is a major worry - it smashes a massive hole IMHO in the idea that we have significantly progressed (Certainly when judged / considered against the backing he’s had)

Im not suggesting we should consider changing but it may be worth considering how other managers with the same backin* here might be doing with the same backing 

He’s not overly lauded on here but as he’s topical - How do you think Micjpk McCarthy migh5 do with the backing and set up Lee has (My personal view is he’d have us at least where we are now)

Fair enough, I get where you are coming from.

As for Moore, Engvall and Walsh I think it's too early to say that they won't be regular starters, I understand why you would say that though as they've been given very little time to prove themselves.

I agree with the comments on Hegeler, Taylor and the many loanees we've seen fail this season, although I fear that Taylor was just to spite of the Gas during our awful run last year.

I'm not Johnson's greatest fan and I think other, more experienced managers would do better with the squad, McCarthy probably being one, but I would state that he has improved it significantly, even if it has meant bringing in players who haven't performed. The likes of Pisano, Diedhiou, Paterson, Abraham, Baker, Magnússon, Brownhill have all strengthened us compared to where we were before Johnson and I wouldn't be surprised if some of the younger players at the club, if they get their chance, do strengthen us as well.

[Vil1]

3 wins in 17 is sackable .we have a team of jumped up league 1 players .fielding has saved us so many times! The french are shite .we was better without them .kent shit walsh shit .kelly gets mom then put on bench .bryam massivley overated has 1 good game in 10.diony shit.bought loaned so much shit its unreal .but were still in there with a chance .just play our best team on form .i cant think of 1 player we got in thats performing. Lost the best player in league 1 for pennies .bradley dack wud piss in to our 11 .hes litreally taking blackburn up on his own.pay the money lansdown you tight fuker .wats a ground without fans

[Bar BS3]

3 hours ago, tinman85 said:

A manager who clearly has a clue. Shoe string budget and that's how you play football. We are on the slippery slope again and he can't change it 

Out of interest, were you calling for Dean Smith to be appointed after we put 8 past his last club..? Or is it now that we aren’t getting everything going our way..? 

Were you not one of the most vocal in wanting LJ out last season, before he’s about to deliver our highest league position for 10 years..? 

Yes, today was dire. Recent form has tailed off, but you can’t just ignore the many plus points of this season. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

5 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

Fair enough, I get where you are coming from.

As for Moore, Engvall and Walsh I think it's too early to say that they won't be regular starters, I understand why you would say that though as they've been given very little time to prove themselves.

I agree with the comments on Hegeler, Taylor and the many loanees we've seen fail this season, although I fear that Taylor was just to spite of the Gas during our awful run last year.

I'm not Johnson's greatest fan and I think other, more experienced managers would do better with the squad, McCarthy probably being one, but I would state that he has improved it significantly, even if it has meant bringing in players who haven't performed. The likes of Pisano, Diedhiou, Paterson, Abraham, Baker, Magnússon, Brownhill have all strengthened us compared to where we were before Johnson and I wouldn't be surprised if some of the younger players at the club, if they get their chance, do strengthen us as well.

I think it’s a combination of Lees shortcomings and recruitment that may leave us short

If I had to go for one it would be recruitment predom8nantly (And unless LJ doesn’t get a say this would concern me)

I look at what we signed and then look at Watkins today or Ryan Woods who was absent today thank god or several other of Brentford’s signings and compare apparent value for money and general recruitment policy / success

 

[JBFC II]

2 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I think it’s a combination of Lees shortcomings and recruitment that may leave us short

If I had to go for one it would be recruitment predom8nantly (And unless LJ doesn’t get a say this would concern me)

I look at what we signed and then look at Watkins today or Ryan Woods who was absent today thank god or several other of Brentford’s signings and compare apparent value for money 

 

Brentford have done some outstanding business, if a club is a model to work towards business wise it is them.

They have a team made up of academy players and cheap signings who are all technically excellent footballers and it works a treat, we've tried to do similar but have overpaid on too many players really

[McNasty Filth]

4 hours ago, tinman85 said:

A manager who clearly has a clue. Shoe string budget and that's how you play football. We are on the slippery slope again and he can't change it 

How does the chant go again.

You ****, you ****, you ****, you ****, you ****

[McNasty Filth]

Actually, thinking about it, I may have put one to many you ****s in there, sorry everybody

[BigAl&Toby]

4 hours ago, tinman85 said:

A manager who clearly has a clue. Shoe string budget and that's how you play football. We are on the slippery slope again and he can't change it 

**** me. Just **** me.

As I asked you the other day - and you avoided it then - what were you posting when we beat Man Utd and took Man City close.

I bet you was one of those cocks who painted on your bed sheets wasn’t you? 

[MC RISK77]

2 minutes ago, BigAlToby&Liam said:

**** me. Just **** me.

As I asked you the other day - and you avoided it then - what were you posting when we beat Man Utd and took Man City close.

I bet you was one of those cocks who painted on your bed sheets wasn’t you? 

Only got to look at the rubbish count on his/her posts that this is the most clueless poster on the forum....has not got the first idea around budgets/tactics...genuinely think they feel football should be done the way it is on championship manager.

[BS4 on Tour...]

4 hours ago, Bs4Red said:

We are 7th in the championship with the 18th biggest budget in the league. I grant you that was absolutely dreadful but don’t be stupid pal

How did you get details of all the championship clubs’ budgets? Please share, it would make very interesting reading...cheers

[Jack Dawe]

1 hour ago, Major Isewater said:

Wake up it's where we're heading if things don't change quickly.

 We are in RELEGATION form, why ? 

 

Because there's no chance we'll be relegated. And a slight chance we'll be promoted, neither of which we are "targetting."

[BS4 on Tour...]

3 hours ago, Maggersno1Fan said:

Speak to Neil Warnock 

Oh you’ve done it now! You’re not ‘allowed’ to suggest very successful, proven managers on here....they just get dismissed as ‘dinosaurs’ and ‘cheats’ - yet they succeed again and again....