"Bristol City - their recruitment is very, very intelligent"

[BobBobSuperBob]

41 minutes ago, Bobfish said:

Christ this is getting painful. You're really not getting the point are you. They are talking about performances - plural - even the most clapping happy fan cannot seriously deny that since wolves our performances have deteriorated. Our form has deteriorated. Our style of play has deteriorated from a high press, passing game to hoof ball. Our points per game has deteriorated. Judging from the arguing players on the pitch, our squad harmony has deteriorated, perhaps because they realise their performances have deteriorated. Our team selection and use of subs has deteriorated. Thus the regained confidence some fans had with their manager, after the car crash of last season, has, you guessed it, deteriorated. And, surprise surprise, we fear what may continue is this theme of deterioration.

 

Think your wasting your breath Bob , even with such a sensible description and summary

[Mr Popodopolous]

I think there's been a steady decline in performances, but our output has really decelerated last 7 games. Let's split it into two 7 game periods.

Norwich at home through to Leeds away or even Fulham at home.

• Norwich it wasn't too bad, 2nd half anyway. We dominated the ball, hit the post and denied a good shout for a pen. So that performance in some ways taken in isolation wouldn't have been too worrying. A bit of pragmatism and we could have got a point- or three. Regardless that game was far from abysmal IMO. Disappointing yes, but not abysmal.
• Bolton- As above in some ways, minus the woodwork. Should have had a pen at 0-0, their goal came from a breakaway. Even with no pen, bit more pragmatism and we get a point which keeps us ticking over.
• Sunderland- A weird game that was- I felt at the time, it was almost too comfortable- and more importantly the attitude by players, fans probably, coaching staff- because Sunderland were that bad, but despite being 3 up we were far from perfect in the first half. Diony for Reid at halftime...wrecked our system a bit. Do recall though, first half though Sunderland had some breakaways which didn't result in shots but...combine that and not exactly looking watertight and our lax attitude from Halftime onwards and it was always a risk. This was by far the most disappointing of the initial 4 IMO- by which I mean Norwich, Bolton, Sunderland and Leeds games.
• Leeds- That can happen. Recently appointed manager effect, Sky cameras- crowd kicked into gear around the hour mark and we failed to get a grip on Hernandez, made the requisite changes too late if at all. 
• Fulham- A side against whom we have a poor home record. I thought it was a good result- Fulham's form has been sensational last few months. Atmosphere was decent, they had more possession yes and Mitrovic hit the woodwork yes, but I think it was a pretty good display- I don''t think they've dropped points v any other big side home or away they have played since mid December which says it all about this result/performance! At least IMO says we should be happy.

As well as in this period up to Leeds away, we beat QPR despite having 10 men for an hour and the crowd rallied which was good. A point at Derby too which was also decent, if a bit backs to the wall- I don't think performances deteriorated that much in this period.

Thereafter though- Cardiff away through to Brentford at home:

• Burton- We didn't show up, end of story. Pitch was poor, which didn't help but plenty of other teams find a way to win there.
• Barnsley- We were bullied weren't we. 4-4-2 in the narrow way we play it, vs a physical side scrapping for survival and away from home- isn't a great way to go. We got a point, but whether we deserved it is another issue...
• Brentford- Just very, very poor weren't we. Brentford were good...we OTOH, didn't show physically or technically or tactically. Their finishing was worse than our overall performance though- and that's saying something- so we scraped a 1-0 loss!

Cardiff away we set up poorly and didn't really show, lost late on. Preston away we weren't great, but again could perhaps have merited a draw perhaps. The 2 wins vs Ipswich and Sheff Wed you know not bad, but to be expected in the circs.

While no performances have really hit the heights in the League this year- and we can in some write off Villa away as a game too far, they've definitely got much worse, much less dangerous for the opposition IMO from Cardiff away until present. That's when it really turned I reckon.

[BTRFTG]

7 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

Still no cause for alarm all is well as the club rearrange the deck chairs . 

Paddy Power offering short odds we run out to Birmingham, Tuesday to a band playing "Nearer My God To Thee."

[BobBobSuperBob]

Stats are only one part to consider in a performance - normally I find my eyes and what I watch gives a decent judgement 

But some stats re efforts on goal in last 6 matches

(To give a pre Xmas guide )

Against Forest we had 15 compared to their 10

Middlesborough 15 to their 7

Even Against Wolves , we had 13 compared to their 10

 

Last five games

Preston 9 to their 15

Burton 6 to their 12

Ipswich 9 apiece

Barnsley 8 to their 23

Brentford 2 to their 27

A worrying figure of 34 compared to the oppositions 86 over last five games and a staggering 10 v oppositions 50 in last 2 games !!!

 

( And the QPR game where it’s been suggested we performed (I thought we showed spirit and guts but lacked cohesion)

We had 11 efforts to their 15 and only had %45 possession )

[BCFC11]

16 hours ago, simon uk said:

 If reid hadnt done what he has this year, with diedhous injury we would have been struggling.

If my aunt was my uncle blah blah blah 

Also don’t know if you realised but if every team above us won less games than we have we’d be top of the league! 

[Major Isewater]

11 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Think your wasting your breath Bob , even with such a sensible description and summary

I'm beginning to realise what the ' C ' in " Big C " stands for .

[Bobfish]

28 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

I'm beginning to realise what the ' C ' in " Big C " stands for .

A bit harsh, especially considering that in hospital the big c is, unofficially, sometimes used to refer to, well, you know.

I am not referring to the forementioned poster, but I do remember wondering last season during our terrible run of form if some of the regular “happy clapper” posters were bots, due to the repetitive and nonsensical statements without apparent cognitive reasoning! You heard it here first, you may be arguing with an algorithm!

 

#Skynet_out #Cyberdyne_is_here

[Big C]

50 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

I'm beginning to realise what the ' C ' in " Big C " stands for .

[Alessandro]

18 hours ago, BRISTOL86 said:

For the record I don’t think league position should be the sole criteria but let’s be honest it’s pretty much the only thing that matters once the season is over, especially if the ultimate aim is promotion. 

I’d rather we finished 1st playing terrible football than 7th playing amazing, assuming it had no impact on the subsequent season!

I guess ultimately I’m just disappointed how quickly we reverted to type once we hit a bump in the road. I thought collectively as a fan base we were a bit better than that. For a team that’s achieved precisely nothing in 120 years we don’t have have high expectations. 

Astonishing quite how many fan's support of the team/club is so conditional. But they are a minority luckily - if OTIB was anything to go by we'd have no season tickets, but record sales come in.

I honestly don't understand where people get their expectations from sometimes? 

The bottom line is we are fighting at the top of the championship, the season isn't even over and people are ripping into things on here or worse still booing our own players who are out there fighting for the top 6. Shame. 

 

[Alessandro]

13 hours ago, Bobfish said:

Christ this is getting painful. You're really not getting the point are you. They are talking about performances - plural - even the most clapping happy fan cannot seriously deny that since wolves our performances have deteriorated. Our form has deteriorated. Our style of play has deteriorated from a high press, passing game to hoof ball. Our points per game has deteriorated. Judging from the arguing players on the pitch, our squad harmony has deteriorated, perhaps because they realise their performances have deteriorated. Our team selection and use of subs has deteriorated. Thus the regained confidence some fans had with their manager, after the car crash of last season, has, you guessed it, deteriorated. And, surprise surprise, we fear what may continue is this theme of deterioration.

 

The problem here Bobfish - as has been shown several times in the past, and not in the distant past either - we've heard this phrase before all too many times. 

"Blind faith" and doomsday scenario's time and again from a band of posters. You were wrong last year and seem desperate to be right again this time. You might be, you might not. 

Don't get me wrong, i'm as frustrated and disappointed as the next man about our post Christmas form, but when I look at the league table, regardless of peaks and troughs in form (of which there have been a few and will be many many more) we are still 7th in the table and progressing from where we were the last two seasons.

Could it be better, yes. Could it be worse, hell yeah. Is it an exact science, no. Is promotion a proven formula? No. That's football. People who profess to be 'seasoned football fans' and good readers of the game aren't half naive with the basic principles of football and competition sometimes.  

[BRISTOL86]

33 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Astonishing quite how many fan's support of the team/club is so conditional. But they are a minority luckily - if OTIB was anything to go by we'd have no season tickets, but record sales come in.

I honestly don't understand where people get their expectations from sometimes? 

The bottom line is we are fighting at the top of the championship, the season isn't even over and people are ripping into things on here or worse still booing our own players who are out there fighting for the top 6. Shame. 

 

When the reaction of fans takes an experienced pro like Bailey Wright completely by surprise you know it's out of the ordinary. Imagine how you'd feel having been a big contributor to the season we've had and getting that, you can tell from his interview how much it hurt. How anyone can think it can do anything other than hinder us is baffling.

[Alessandro]

Just now, BRISTOL86 said:

When the reaction of fans takes an experienced pro like Bailey Wright completely by surprise you know it's out of the ordinary. Imagine how you'd feel having been a big contributor to the season we've had and getting that, you can tell from his interview how much it hurt. How anyone can think it can do anything other than hinder us is baffling.

Agreed - but there will always be 2 schools of thought about things like this.

The old school “hair dryer” treatment or the newer “arm round the shoulder” approach.

We know which way we, and the world in general, are going. 

The reality is these days we know better, and the old school approach to motivation doesn’t work - who responds well to being shouted at at work? I’d say very, very few. 

In general it’s the same in football now - especially with the increase in player power.

Some will like or agree with it, some not. But it seems to be the way we are doing things behind the scenes. 

 

[bpexile]

On 06/04/2018 at 05:30, Dr Balls said:

Surely not Colin from Cardiff?!

Ollie from QPR ???

[Bobfish]

59 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Astonishing quite how many fan's support of the team/club is so conditional. But they are a minority luckily - if OTIB was anything to go by we'd have no season tickets, but record sales come in.

I honestly don't understand where people get their expectations from sometimes? 

The bottom line is we are fighting at the top of the championship, the season isn't even over and people are ripping into things on here or worse still booing our own players who are out there fighting for the top 6. Shame. 

 

 

52 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

The problem here Bobfish - as has been shown several times in the past, and not in the distant past either - we've heard this phrase before all too many times. 

"Blind faith" and doomsday scenario's time and again from a band of posters. You were wrong last year and seem desperate to be right again this time. You might be, you might not. 

Don't get me wrong, i'm as frustrated and disappointed as the next man about our post Christmas form, but when I look at the league table, regardless of peaks and troughs in form (of which there have been a few and will be many many more) we are still 7th in the table and progressing from where we were the last two seasons.

Could it be better, yes. Could it be worse, hell yeah. Is it an exact science, no. Is promotion a proven formula? No. That's football. People who profess to be 'seasoned football fans' and good readers of the game aren't half naive with the basic principles of football and competition sometimes.  

Expectations. You seem to misunderstand why people are frustrated. Did the majority of fans expect us to get promoted, no, of course not, but we hoped. What we did expect though was the club and players to give everything they had to try, just as we witnessed in the first half of the season. It is not just the poor results that are frustrating us fans, it is what seems to be a lack of fight. Most of us here, whilst still being unhappy with losing, would take heart if we looked like we giving all for the playoffs. So many on here keep saying we are fighting for the playoffs, but that is not what we see on the pitch.

Expectations – you keep telling us our young manager is learning, and we expect that, and a lot of us started to believe that, myself included - and I was a big LJ fan initially - but the ridiculous signing of kent and walsh, two players who cannot defend, and the complete absence of the high press from the front shows that our manager hasn’t learnt what turned us round last season, what gave us such a good start this year -  Hard work and resiliance. You talk of naive fans, but what of our manager’s actions? Naïve - Playing both kent and walsh in the last game, coming up with the young pathway excuse – how does that apply to kent who isn’t our player, and who is blocking the pathway of our young players? Naive - We know joe bryan needs help on the wing to defend, last season showed us that, especially the turn around, as did the start of this season when he had either o’dowda in front to help him, of he was in front of mags/kelly to give support and resilience. Yet he plays kent and surprise surprise we suffer 20 odd shots on target. Naive – not signing a rb, instead playing players out of position. Naive – signing on loan a striker who hasn’t scored all season and appears by his social media to be in depression – and during our best league position in years. Naive – constantly waiting too long, or not at all, to address problems on other areas of the pitch, such as bolstering an overrun midfield. Naive – putting reid up front (success, well done, credit where credit is due) yet now often playing him deeper in midfield. Naive – buying a central attacking midfielder (walsh) when we don’t play them – see tomlin and the mess of last season trying to fit him in - thus why reid moved up the pitch in the first place. Naive – playing patterson, another who can’t defend, no matter how poor his form may be. Naive – not just signing kent, but signing a player with a clause of a financial penalty if he doesn’t play, especially after he just returned from a poor loan spell in germany.

Niave - having no plan b except the hoofball we have recently seen.

[ScottishRed]

26 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Agreed - but there will always be 2 schools of thought about things like this.

The old school “hair dryer” treatment or the newer “arm round the shoulder” approach.

We know which way we, and the world in general, are going. 

The reality is these days we know better, and the old school approach to motivation doesn’t work - who responds well to being shouted at at work? I’d say very, very few. 

In general it’s the same in football now - especially with the increase in player power.

Some will like or agree with it, some not. But it seems to be the way we are doing things behind the scenes. 

 

Can't disagree with your comments on player power and the world in general.

And no getting shouted at only works with the few not the many BUT, this change of attitude in society, whilst welcome, does result in more individual responsibility - for performance, committment, discipline and desire, and this applies in all workplaces.

It is emcumbant on the individual to deliver these and for the employer to deliver the environment, the framework and  a clear direction on what is expected ,to allow them to prosper.

At the moment I am questioning both at our club.

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, Bobfish said:

 

Expectations. You seem to misunderstand why people are frustrated. Did the majority of fans expect us to get promoted, no, of course not, but we hoped. What we did expect though was the club and players to give everything they had to try, just as we witnessed in the first half of the season. It is not just the poor results that are frustrating us fans, it is what seems to be a lack of fight. Most of us here, whilst still being unhappy with losing, would take heart if we looked like we giving all for the playoffs. So many on here keep saying we are fighting for the playoffs, but that is not what we see on the pitch.

Expectations – you keep telling us our young manager is learning, and we expect that, and a lot of us started to believe that, myself included - and I was a big LJ fan initially - but the ridiculous signing of kent and walsh, two players who cannot defend, and the complete absence of the high press from the front shows that our manager hasn’t learnt what turned us round last season, what gave us such a good start this year -  Hard work and resiliance. You talk of naive fans, but what of our manager’s actions? Naïve - Playing both kent and walsh in the last game, coming up with the young pathway excuse – how does that apply to kent who isn’t our player, and who is blocking the pathway of our young players? Naive - We know joe bryan needs help on the wing to defend, last season showed us that, especially the turn around, as did the start of this season when he had either o’dowda in front to help him, of he was in front of mags/kelly to give support and resilience. Yet he plays kent and surprise surprise we suffer 20 odd shots on target. Naive – not signing a rb, instead playing players out of position. Naive – signing on loan a striker who hasn’t scored all season and appears by his social media to be in depression – and during our best league position in years. Naive – constantly waiting too long, or not at all, to address problems on other areas of the pitch, such as bolstering an overrun midfield. Naive – putting reid up front (success, well done, credit where credit is due) yet now often playing him deeper in midfield. Naive – buying a central attacking midfielder (walsh) when we don’t play them – see tomlin and the mess of last season trying to fit him in - thus why reid moved up the pitch in the first place. Naive – playing patterson, another who can’t defend, no matter how poor his form may be. Naive – not just signing kent, but signing a player with a clause of a financial penalty if he doesn’t play, especially after he just returned from a poor loan spell in germany.

 

Niave - having no plan b except the hoofball we have recently seen.

Bob, lots to agree with in your post if you take a purely binary (agree/disagree) view.  I think there are some grey areas or slightly agree/disagree.

But I do think that we’ve seen things in the last month, two months that are not dissimilar to the worrying trends of last season.  LJ has moved us forward, and as much as the season is 46 games long, game 41 is probably gonna be pivotal to games 42-46.

[Robbored]

28 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

And no getting shouted at only works with the few not the many BUT, this change of attitude in society, whilst welcome, does result in more individual responsibility - for performance, committment, discipline and desire, and this applies in all workplaces.

Bullying doesn't work effectively for sure. The change of attitude is meant to promote harmony and respect.

It is emcumbant on the individual to deliver these and for the employer to deliver the environment, the framework and  a clear direction on what is expected ,to allow them to prosper.

Of course it's beneficial for noth employer and employee if the working environment is a contented one with clear aims and a clear purpose. If one element isn't there that can lead to serious issues.

At the moment I am questioning both at our club.

So you're questioning both LJ as a leader/manager and that the players aren't performing because of him?

 

[Alessandro]

1 hour ago, Bobfish said:

Whilst I agree with or understand some of what you’ve said here, I think you’ve made a very lazy generalisation of making every point ‘Naive’ - Everthing is naivety on the managers part is far to simplistic and you’re indulging a huge amount of hindsight too. 

Expectations. You seem to misunderstand why people are frustrated. Did the majority of fans expect us to get promoted, no, of course not, but we hoped. What we did expect though was the club and players to give everything they had to try, just as we witnessed in the first half of the season. It is not just the poor results that are frustrating us fans, it is what seems to be a lack of fight. Most of us here, whilst still being unhappy with losing, would take heart if we looked like we giving all for the playoffs. So many on here keep saying we are fighting for the playoffs, but that is not what we see on the pitch.

I disagree - I see a team fighting on the pitch, but who have run out of steam, confidence and momentum. And ultimately a team who I think are punching above their weight and still within a chance of the play offs. In the same idea then, I see a some fans who have given up fighting for and positively supporting the team, despite us being in with a chance of the play offs, where is their fight? You say you don’t expect promotion, just fighting, well we are in 7th and fighting for the playoffs still.

Expectations – you keep telling us our young manager is learning, and we expect that, and a lot of us started to believe that, myself included - and I was a big LJ fan initially - but the ridiculous signing of kent and walsh, two players who cannot defend, and the complete absence of the high press from the front shows that our manager hasn’t learnt what turned us round last season, what gave us such a good start this year -  Hard work and resiliance.

Again - football is not played in a vacuum. Some signings work, some don’t. Some over achieve, some under perform. The way some people talk is that BCFC are the only club in the country to make bad signings sometimes, that’s football. As I said before, I still see the hard work, take Brownhill’s clearence off the line, but what served us well when we were on top form isn’t clicking now. We all know there are many reasons for this. Fatigue, injuries, form, luck, momentum, tactics, siginings...we haven’t abandoned a style of play, we’ve been unable to maintain the high standards. That’s a different matter.

You talk of naive fans, but what of our manager’s actions? Naïve - Playing both kent and walsh in the last game, coming up with the young pathway excuse – how does that apply to kent who isn’t our player, and who is blocking the pathway of our young players?

Kent has been poor, make no mistake, but he came with a good pedigree and I remember him being excellent for Barnsley against us - but I think something many people forget is Kent came in for cover/competition. In reality had Paterson been in better form and O’Dowda fit, we’d be seeing a lot less than Kent, needs must. 

Walsh was a gamble that didn’t work against Brentford, but rumours are Pack might have been a little unfit. Against Brentford who play football, you can see why he played him, but it didn’t work. But he is one of our young players on the pathway you talk about, so will benefit from the exposure.

Naive - We know joe bryan needs help on the wing to defend, last season showed us that, especially the turn around, as did the start of this season when he had either o’dowda in front to help him, of he was in front of mags/kelly to give support and resilience. Yet he plays kent and surprise surprise we suffer 20 odd shots on target.

Common misconception - O’Dowda would solve Bryan. He didn’t always play in front of him in the early part of the season, often it was Paterson and Bryan was in such good form he swept up behind him. He is out of form, but not all the shots come from our left, Pisano has been over run for a few games IMO too. 

Going forward we’ll see more of Kelly no doubt, hopefully alongside Bryan, but he needs to be worked in. Again, a needs must, Maggers is injured, Kelly is being protected, so Bryan has to play LB with either Pato/Kent ahead of him, both of whom are desperately out of touch. That’s not naive, that’s reality of the squad.

Naive – not signing a rb, instead playing players out of position.

Maybe we could have signed another RB, debatable. Naive that Wright was RB when we surged to 2nd in the table? He is an option. Naive that Pisano suffered a few set backs? Plus we can play other players there in emergency, so had we signed another RB we’d have 3 RB’s and 4 CB’s to juggle, not including Kelly. 

Naive – signing on loan a striker who hasn’t scored all season and appears by his social media to be in depression – and during our best league position in years.

Diony hasn’t worked either, but you can see the thinking behind it. He came from a league with a record equal or better than Kodjia and Famara, who’ve brought us success, so logical to follow the same pathway again. It’s speculation he suffers from depression too. It’s the way we do transfer business now, we can’t afford the £30k plus per week Villa pay Grabban, Wolves pay Afobe, Fulham pay Mitrovic, Derby pay Jerome. Conversely maybe we could have signed someone like Cameron Jerome , make him our highest paid player, all for what, one goal so far(?), how would that affect team morale?

Naive – constantly waiting too long, or not at all, to address problems on other areas of the pitch, such as bolstering an overrun midfield. Naive – putting reid up front (success, well done, credit where credit is due) yet now often playing him deeper in midfield. Naive – buying a central attacking midfielder (walsh) when we don’t play them – see tomlin and the mess of last season trying to fit him in - thus why reid moved up the pitch in the first place. Naive – playing patterson, another who can’t defend, no matter how poor his form may be. Naive – not just signing kent, but signing a player with a clause of a financial penalty if he doesn’t play, especially after he just returned from a poor loan spell in germany.

Lots of points here, down to form or debate/opinion. But I wouldn’t call it naive if Bobby, who is being constantly doubled/tripled marked, dropping back to find space sometimes. We haven’t been overrun every game, in fact we’ve often been in control, yet unable to find the killer touch. Walsh - signed as and used so far as one for the future, can’t be judged yet. Kent - see earlier comments. And of course the manager has made some bad calls, that’s football, which manager always gets it right? I still think LJ is in credit and has got plenty right (Djuric coming on for the winner recently for example) as well as wrong, but people don’t want to focus on that.

 

Niave - having no plan b except the hoofball we have recently seen.

This is can agree with. For what it’s worth - I believe opposition teams have done a great job at nullifying us and the players run out of ideas. This needs to be worked on. I’ve said elsewhere, we are the team with the highest number of fouls committed against us in the top 12 - teams are getting really physical in stopping us playing our game, sometimes you have to acknowledge the opposition and not just say, we’ve stopped playing our way. Yes we’ve lost the verve of the early season, but as I say, we’ve run out of steam and been found out at the same time, hence hitting a brick wall. Are there ways we could have stopped that happening? Maybe, but they generally involve spending more money, which isn’t our approach and sacking the manager - which to anyone outside and most inside of the club would be a senseless sacking.

 

 

[Nogbad the Bad]

2 hours ago, Alessandro said:

Agreed - but there will always be 2 schools of thought about things like this.

The old school “hair dryer” treatment or the newer “arm round the shoulder” approach.

We know which way we, and the world in general, are going. 

The reality is these days we know better, and the old school approach to motivation doesn’t work - who responds well to being shouted at at work? I’d say very, very few. 

In general it’s the same in football now - especially with the increase in player power.

Some will like or agree with it, some not. But it seems to be the way we are doing things behind the scenes. 

 

LJ may now be advocating publicly that the players need the 'arm round the shoulder' approach, but it doesn't mean he hasn't used the 'hairdryer treatment' in the dressing room previously.

All individuals are not the same and while some may benefit from a sympathetic approach others may respond better to a verbal kick up the backside.

He needs to have both weapons in his man management armoury and should be fully aware which players will respond best to each method.

If he's given the hairdryer treatment to those who need the sympathetic approach he now advocates it may have affected their confidence and performances, so let's hope that hasn't been the case.

You'd hope all players have been chosen with the DNA to withstand an occasional 'bollocking' though, both individually where appropriate, and after displays like Brentford, collectively

[Alessandro]

19 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

LJ may now be advocating publicly that the players need the 'arm round the shoulder' approach, but it doesn't mean he hasn't used the 'hairdryer treatment' in the dressing room previously.

All individuals are not the same and while some may benefit from a sympathetic approach others may respond better to a verbal kick up the backside.

He needs to have both weapons in his man management armoury and should be fully aware which players will respond best to each method.

If he's given the hairdryer treatment to those who need the sympathetic approach he now advocates it may have affected their confidence and performances, so let's hope that hasn't been the case.

You'd hope all players have been chosen with the DNA to withstand an occasional 'bollocking' though, both individually where appropriate, and after displays like Brentford, collectively

I obviously have no idea if LJ has used the hairdryer treatment, but in my opinion that style of management, where managers were the “over-lords” that could make or break a footballers’ career is a thing for the majority now decades in the past.

In general as I say, the world has realised in most cases, creating a positive, encouraging work environment is usually better for productivity. Hearing LJ speak and seeing him on the touch line and SL clapping the players off after Brentford sort of confirms that. I watched LJ on the touchline and after one particularly bad cross/corner against Brentford which drew groans from the crowd  I saw him up clapping encouragement, not throwing water bottles around.

I agree though sometimes the hairdryer treatment will be needed - a player not tracking back or switching off from their marker at a corner for example. 

So then it becomes a judgement call on that player’s application - if they’re applying themselves but nothing is coming off, shouting or booing will never help.

[Bobfish]

18 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

 

40 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

 

 

Some good points there. I highlighted naive as I believed you had used it as a lazy, sweeping generalisation of fans who disagreed, thus why I emphasised its use. Irony, you see. However the fact that you have actually debated points suggest I may have been hasty.

Out of interest, who are our 2RBs, if signing another would make three? LJ has stated he sees vyner as a cb, he "has a higher ceiling there" indeed that is where he is playing at Plymouth. Moore may be playing as a rb at Cheltenham, but if he is at that level he must be far from our first team. Odd as he played as a defensive midfielder for england I believe, a position it would be beneficial to grow him into for our team.

The thing about bryan is that his defensive flaws means that the lcb often has to come out of position to cover and is therefore exposed; partly why poor wright got so much stick last game. When baker played there (and patterson was in midfield and playing well) his ability helped limit this problem. Personally, I preferred Bryan at LM with mags or kelly behind him. Bryan at least gets forward and whips crosses in then.

My major problem with kent is that it seems that LJ learnt nothing from leko, tomlin, and Eillison's first game when they are out wide - we need defensive cover for our flanks - remember how last season we all feared every single cross that came in, and they were frequent. Yet he still got in Kent. If kelly is good enough to play for england u21 then he doesn't need protection, he needs game time. If he is good enough, he is old enough. Personally, I would let kelly and mags fight out for LB and let bryan answer our LM problems. Then he and odowda can fight it out for LM, with the added bonus that JB can drop back to LB if needed for subs/shape change.