Should he stay or go

[BS4 on Tour...]

1 minute ago, glynriley said:

 

Ahem.....

Apologies...I didn’t read the whole thread before posting a response!

[Robin1988]

17 hours ago, Rich said:

I don't have and if I'm honest, I've never had much confidence in LJ as our manager. I don't think he showed anything as a young manager at his previous clubs to think he'd be a good manager for BCFC. I think, he was known to the owners, was young, cheapish, and available with compensation. I think he fitted the bill of what SL wants in his club, that is, young and hungry. Trouble is, he can't decide what to have from the menu to feed that hunger, especially when there's a greater variety of choice. Give him a choice of soup, for a starter, steak for main course and apple pie for dessert and he chooses correctly. Put two starters, three main courses and a cheeseboard as a dessert option and he cocks up his selection.

He must have spent twenty years at least in the game, four of which as a manager. If I'd spent that long in a profession with the intension of continuing into management, I'd know that job inside out. He was a rookie at Oldham and a rookie for the first part at Barnsley. If he doesn't know his job by now, he shouldn't be doing it.

Double post, apologies

[Rich]

2 hours ago, Robin1988 said:

I see you have a selective appreciation of facts here Rich. But well done on the slightly unhinged analogy.

He left Oldham more than 3 years ago. They’ve never been higher than they were that day, on a shoestring League 1 budget.

However you look at it, he sewed the seeds of Barnsley’s promotion the following season. They were on the play-off fringes when he left, Heckingbottom got them over the line very well.

What about that shows you NOTHING that he could succeed? It seems rather bizarre to me.

Oh and anyone who has been anywhere near the game will tell you playing and managing are totally different. Anyone with half a brain could probably work that one out.

Are you normally so rude, or have you been on a course?

It depends on your viewpoint when making an assessment on someone's abilities, you are obviously being selective when searching out any possible positives in your support of the manager.

I'm sure Oldham have been higher than when Lee was with them, perhaps even in the premiership.  They're not exactly a small club and, with lots of clubs in the region, it must recruitment easier, even on a shoestring budget. He joined and they staved off relegation by three points and finished fifteenth the following year, hardly setting the world alight.

At Barnsley, they were crying out for his head at one point, after one of the clubs worst runs in their history, so it might have got a bit better before he left, if it hadn't, who knows where they'd have been. At least they then employed a manager to get them to somewhere Lee didn't/couldn't,  into the play offs and promotion, with a trophy along the way.

So he didn't succeed with Oldham.

He didn't succeed with Barnsley, he might have but, we'll never know.

Many a player has been signed based on their potential, only to be discarded as not good enough when given their chance. I would imagine the same would apply to managers.

I would agree with you that playing and managing are different, anyone with half a brain could tell that, well done.                      But there again, anyone with an ounce of grey matter, would pick up things from their bosses, about how to or, how not to do things, especially if they plan to go into management. There are so many references from players who've been influenced by managers they've played for, unfortunately, Lee hasn't been in too many situations to be influenced by anyone other than his dad, having only/barely played for two other managers. 

So, you can be as rude as you want, it won't hide your ignorance, or influence people that do actually think about things in a different, not unhinged, way.

Please try to avoid being so rude, if you reply. This is a discussion forum, not a dick fight, but, if you want one, I'm up for it. 

 

[Spike]

16 hours ago, CotswoldRed said:

Part of the problem is we've stopped doing our one dimension and just lump the ball forward like a pub team. 

We lumped it in the earlier half of the season too, mainly when we were under pressure because a team had set up well against us, the difference the second half of the season was the second games, most of which we've lost or drawn. I put that down to teams knowing how we play and researching how other teams beat us and using those tactics against us, this has caused us to lump it more frequently because Johnson doesn't have a plan B.

A lot of people just don't want to seem to accept we've been figured out and LJ obviously at this point doesn't know how to deal with that. His second half of the season record would have got most managers the sack but the difference is that he's shown he can compete with the best, now he needs to show he can do what most managers can't and what sets a good manager apart from an average one, turn around a bad slump that he's responsible for. 

[Major Isewater]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Awful thing to say, whether you think it or not.  An example of saying too much.....lie if so!!!

This is where I believe he is a bit naive, he is too honest and open .

This can sometimes apply to his pre match pressers where the opposition know exactly who is going to play and what formation we're going to use .

 I don't think we should help them any more than we do . 

[Major Isewater]

1 hour ago, Rich said:

Are you normally so rude, or have you been on a course?

It depends on your viewpoint when making an assessment on someone's abilities, you are obviously being selective when searching out any possible positives in your support of the manager.

I'm sure Oldham have been higher than when Lee was with them, perhaps even in the premiership.  They're not exactly a small club and, with lots of clubs in the region, it must recruitment easier, even on a shoestring budget. He joined and they staved off relegation by three points and finished fifteenth the following year, hardly setting the world alight.

At Barnsley, they were crying out for his head at one point, after one of the clubs worst runs in their history, so it might have got a bit better before he left, if it hadn't, who knows where they'd have been. At least they then employed a manager to get them to somewhere Lee didn't/couldn't,  into the play offs and promotion, with a trophy along the way.

So he didn't succeed with Oldham.

He didn't succeed with Barnsley, he might have but, we'll never know.

Many a player has been signed based on their potential, only to be discarded as not good enough when given their chance. I would imagine the same would apply to managers.

I would agree with you that playing and managing are different, anyone with half a brain could tell that, well done.                      But there again, anyone with an ounce of grey matter, would pick up things from their bosses, about how to or, how not to do things, especially if they plan to go into management. There are so many references from players who've been influenced by managers they've played for, unfortunately, Lee hasn't been in too many situations to be influenced by anyone other than his dad, having only/barely played for two other managers. 

So, you can be as rude as you want, it won't hide your ignorance, or influence people that do actually think about things in a different, not unhinged, way.

Please try to avoid being so rude, if you reply. This is a discussion forum, not a dick fight, but, if you want one, I'm up for it. 

 

" not a dick fight, but, if you want one, I'm up for it. " 

Unpleasant image won't go away .

[Rich]

2 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

" not a dick fight, but, if you want one, I'm up for it. " 

Unpleasant image won't go away .

it will soon.

[pillred]

14 hours ago, Swede said:

Pointless post.

He's not going anywhere. 

Its about time we question the gutless performance of the players who consistently let him down

agree, but he did sanction the buying of a lot of them so he has to at least take part of the blame, we were praising him when it was going well so it's understandable he is now being criticised.

[Robin1988]

4 hours ago, Rich said:

Are you normally so rude, or have you been on a course?

It depends on your viewpoint when making an assessment on someone's abilities, you are obviously being selective when searching out any possible positives in your support of the manager.

I'm sure Oldham have been higher than when Lee was with them, perhaps even in the premiership.  They're not exactly a small club and, with lots of clubs in the region, it must recruitment easier, even on a shoestring budget. He joined and they staved off relegation by three points and finished fifteenth the following year, hardly setting the world alight.

At Barnsley, they were crying out for his head at one point, after one of the clubs worst runs in their history, so it might have got a bit better before he left, if it hadn't, who knows where they'd have been. At least they then employed a manager to get them to somewhere Lee didn't/couldn't,  into the play offs and promotion, with a trophy along the way.

So he didn't succeed with Oldham.

He didn't succeed with Barnsley, he might have but, we'll never know.

Many a player has been signed based on their potential, only to be discarded as not good enough when given their chance. I would imagine the same would apply to managers.

I would agree with you that playing and managing are different, anyone with half a brain could tell that, well done.                      But there again, anyone with an ounce of grey matter, would pick up things from their bosses, about how to or, how not to do things, especially if they plan to go into management. There are so many references from players who've been influenced by managers they've played for, unfortunately, Lee hasn't been in too many situations to be influenced by anyone other than his dad, having only/barely played for two other managers. 

So, you can be as rude as you want, it won't hide your ignorance, or influence people that do actually think about things in a different, not unhinged, way.

Please try to avoid being so rude, if you reply. This is a discussion forum, not a dick fight, but, if you want one, I'm up for it. 

 

If you’re going to slate the manager of the team I support based on half-baked criticisms which leave out any idea of balance you get no apologies from me, sorry.

You’re right about Oldham, there was a “since” missing there. Three years on, a hatful of managers and nothing better than LJ.

You’ve shown your true allegiances too early mate - managing Oldham on a tiny budget is easier because of their location? That’ll explain why they’ve not been above League 1 since 1997, and have chewed up and spit out six managers since he left.

And if you’re going to have a go at Lee for their league position, you should probably stick to games he actually managed. The season he “finished 15th” Dean Holden was in charge for the final 15 games, from which they picked up 14 points. By all means question why Lee saw fit to bring in Holden after that, but do make sure your reasons relate to when he was actually at the club you mention.

Things got a “bit better” at Barnsley before he left. Yeah, 25 points from his final 12 league games, including six straight wins. FIve points off the play-offs, in the JPT final... I mean it’s not world beating but Jesus, nothing like damning with faint praise.

Lee’s said repeatedly how he picked things up off other managers by doing visits around Europe, which I would wager plenty of other FL bosses haven’t done.

It’s a real shame he didn’t pick up how to stop going on a horrific run every season.

But ******* hell, you can pick out his faults without saying you’d seen nothing to suggest he would succeed here based on a team he wasn’t managing at the time, and being so upset about a significant revival at another you have to practically cast it aside.

I’d far rather be rude than just a flagrant liar.

[Major Isewater]

6 minutes ago, Robin1988 said:

If you’re going to slate the manager of the team I support based on half-baked criticisms which leave out any idea of balance you get no apologies from me, sorry.

You’re right about Oldham, there was a “since” missing there. Three years on, a hatful of managers and nothing better than LJ.

You’ve shown your true allegiances too early mate - managing Oldham on a tiny budget is easier because of their location? That’ll explain why they’ve not been above League 1 since 1997, and have spit up and chewed out six managers since he left.

And if you’re going to have a go at Lee for their league position, you should probably stick to games he actually managed. The season he “finished 15th” Dean Holden was in charge for the final 15 games, from which they picked up 14 points. By all means question why Lee saw fit to bring in Holden after that, but do make sure your reasons relate to when he was actually at the club.

Things got a “bit better” at Barnsley before he left. Yeah, 25 points from his final 12 league games, including six straight wins. FIve points off the play-offs, in the JPT final... I mean it’s not world beating but Jesus, nothing like damning with faint praise.

Lee’s said repeatedly how he picked things up off other managers by doing visits around Europe, which I would wager plenty of other FL bosses haven’t done.

It’s a real shame he didn’t pick up how to stop going on a horrific run every season.

But ******* hell, you can pick out his faults without saying you’d seen nothing to suggest he would succeed here based on a team he wasn’t managing at the time, and being so upset about a significant revival at another you have to practically cast it aside.

I’d far rather be rude than just a flagrant liar.

Is it possible to be a rude flagrant liar ? 

Just asking . 

[Robin1988]

Just now, Major Isewater said:

Is it possible to be a rude flagrant liar ? 

Just asking . 

Yes, but I thought I should pick one and stick to it.

[Rich]

2 hours ago, Robin1988 said:

If you’re going to slate the manager of the team I support based on half-baked criticisms which leave out any idea of balance you get no apologies from me, sorry.

You’re right about Oldham, there was a “since” missing there. Three years on, a hatful of managers and nothing better than LJ.

You’ve shown your true allegiances too early mate - managing Oldham on a tiny budget is easier because of their location? That’ll explain why they’ve not been above League 1 since 1997, and have chewed up and spit out six managers since he left.

And if you’re going to have a go at Lee for their league position, you should probably stick to games he actually managed. The season he “finished 15th” Dean Holden was in charge for the final 15 games, from which they picked up 14 points. By all means question why Lee saw fit to bring in Holden after that, but do make sure your reasons relate to when he was actually at the club you mention.

Things got a “bit better” at Barnsley before he left. Yeah, 25 points from his final 12 league games, including six straight wins. FIve points off the play-offs, in the JPT final... I mean it’s not world beating but Jesus, nothing like damning with faint praise.

Lee’s said repeatedly how he picked things up off other managers by doing visits around Europe, which I would wager plenty of other FL bosses haven’t done.

It’s a real shame he didn’t pick up how to stop going on a horrific run every season.

But ******* hell, you can pick out his faults without saying you’d seen nothing to suggest he would succeed here based on a team he wasn’t managing at the time, and being so upset about a significant revival at another you have to practically cast it aside.

I’d far rather be rude than just a flagrant liar.

I'd take a step back if I were you. Calling me a liar now, you really are an obnoxious snotty little so and so. These are opinions we're talking about here based on how each interpret his achievements, which to date are exactly nil, in terms of success, trophies, promotions as a manager, he has survived, hopefully he'll learn how to stop the rot when it sets in, to date it happens too often and for too long for it not to be a problem. You have a different opinion than me about LJs abilities.

Using your reasoning, you are a liar. I didn't say "managing Oldham on a tiny budget is easier because of their location". I said "with lots of clubs in the region, it must recruitment easier, even on a shoestring budget".

Don't talk to me about true allegiances and the team you support. For the record, I've supported City "our team" for fifty plus years, hardly missing a home game, with many away matches attended as well. I've sweated blood and tears, lost days of my work time,  hours lost sleep through the night and gone through the mill with personnel attacks, whilst doing my utmost through the period of planning applications, town greens, and all sorts, while the opposition were doing their utmost to scupper "our clubs" plans, to do my bit for the club, so don't give me this shit about it being the club you support.  

As I tried to state in my first post, I was not impressed by his CV when he first joined, and to date, I'm still not overly impressed. I haven't "slated him", I've questioned his abilities, which should be done with every employee at BCFC. There are some things I think he does well and, there are others he doesn't. To date, the latter way the better points. I think he's trying to bring more intelligent footballers to the club but, then scuppers that by his do it my way stance, which does sometimes seem a bit like a spoiled kid. 

No I'm not a liar just because I take a different viewpoint than you.

I'm entitled to my opinion, as are you, but, don't attack me for having a different opinion than you and, don't think this is solely "your club", it is not.

 

[Robin1988]

3 minutes ago, Rich said:

I'd take a step back if I were you. Calling me a liar now, you really are an obnoxious snotty little so and so. These are opinions we're talking about here based on how each interpret his achievements, which to date are exactly nil, in terms of success, trophies, promotions as a manager, he has survived, hopefully he'll learn how to stop the rot when it sets in, to date it happens too often and for too long for it not to be a problem. You have a different opinion than me about LJs abilities.

Using your reasoning, you are a liar. I didn't say "managing Oldham on a tiny budget is easier because of their location". I said "with lots of clubs in the region, it must recruitment easier, even on a shoestring budget".

Don't talk to me about true allegiances and the team you support. For the record, I've supported City "our team" for fifty plus years, hardly missing a home game, with many away matches attended as well. I've sweated blood and tears, lost days of my work time,  hours lost sleep through the night and gone through the mill with personnel attacks, whilst doing my utmost through the period of planning applications, town greens, and all sorts, while the opposition were doing their utmost to scupper "our clubs" plans, to do my bit for the club, so don't give me this shit about it being the club you support.  

As I tried to state in my first post, I was not impressed by his CV when he first joined, and to date, I'm still not overly impressed. I haven't "slated him", I've questioned his abilities, which should be done with every employee at BCFC. There are some things I think he does well and, there are others he doesn't. To date, the latter way the better points. I think he's trying to bring more intelligent footballers to the club but, then scuppers that by his do it my way stance, which does sometimes seem a bit like a spoiled kid. 

No I'm not a liar just because I take a different viewpoint than you.

I'm entitled to my opinion, as are you, but, don't attack me for having a different opinion than you and, don't think this is solely "your club", it is not.

Hey of course it's not my club, I'm not even close to getting my superfan card like you! Have you heard of Godwin's Law? Maybe we should have Tomarse's Law on here. The probability of an OTIB thread resorting to bringing up how long you have been a fan regardless of whether it has anything to do with the topic (in this case, whether Lee Johnson should be blamed for a club someone else was managing at the time).

I mean easier recruitment does normally make life easier - our recruitment has been piss poor in January, and middling for the rest of the time, so I would imagine with better recruitment we would have a better chance of succeeding. But you know best.

You almost managed to catch me out with your clever diversion tactics through your "interpretation" of LJ's previous career. Like "interpreting" him leading Oldham to 15th, when they were in fact ninth, two points off the play-offs when he left. And, of course, "interpreting" 25 points from 12 games, as well as a run to the JPT final, as a "minor improvement".

Like I said before, LJ never cut up any major trees in his past jobs, no, but he did do well at Oldham, and I'd say fairly well at Barnsley, in my opinion. What isn't opinion is the two points above, whether you choose to believe them or not.

[DaveInSA]

On 07/04/2018 at 18:23, tinman85 said:

Totally. Johnson out out out! Johnson out out out!  Was not good enough as a player. And certainly nowhere near a manager. Johns

On 07/04/2018 at 18:23, tinman85 said:

Totally. Johnson out out out! Johnson out out out!  Was not good enough as a player. And certainly nowhere near a manager. Johnson out!

You do realise that Johnson the player has nothing at all to do with Johnson the manager?

and your vicious hatred of Johnson and Ashton doesn’t serve you well. What is your problem?

[Rich]

15 minutes ago, Robin1988 said:

Hey of course it's not my club, I'm not even close to getting my superfan card like you! Have you heard of Godwin's Law? Maybe we should have Tomarse's Law on here. The probability of an OTIB thread resorting to bringing up how long you have been a fan regardless of whether it has anything to do with the topic (in this case, whether Lee Johnson should be blamed for a club someone else was managing at the time).

I mean easier recruitment does normally make life easier - our recruitment has been piss poor in January, and middling for the rest of the time, so I would imagine with better recruitment we would have a better chance of succeeding. But you know best.

You almost managed to catch me out with your clever diversion tactics through your "interpretation" of LJ's previous career. Like "interpreting" him leading Oldham to 15th, when they were in fact ninth, two points off the play-offs when he left. And, of course, "interpreting" 25 points from 12 games, as well as a run to the JPT final, as a "minor improvement".

Like I said before, LJ never cut up any major trees in his past jobs, no, but he did do well at Oldham, and I'd say fairly well at Barnsley, in my opinion. What isn't opinion is the two points above, whether you choose to believe them or not.

I've got no super fan card but, when you try the "this is my club card" you're going to be corrected, as you say, I know best.

You try and twist things as you'd like. I've never stated that LJ "should be blamed for club someone else was managing at the time". The information I got about Oldham was on Wikipedia, as follows: On 18 March, the club hired Lee Johnson to become the newest manager and, at the time of his appointment, was the youngest manager in the Football League at 31 years old.^[14] The club narrowly avoided relegation for the 2012–13 season, finishing 19th and just three points above the drop zone. The club fared better in Johnson's second season, finishing mid-table at 15th. I forgot that he'd jumped ship to manage Barnsley, who knows, he might have got them straight promotion, or, gone on an awful run. Or it could have been DHs fault and he's to blame for the poor runs. There's the next scapegoat.

As you say, "LJ never cut up any trees in his past jobs" you interpret that as doing well or fairly well. I interpret that as, I wasn't impressed by his two previous positions. Saying not impressed, is not slating, it's akin to saying the jury is out. In this instance, I've concluded that in my opinion, he might be good enough for Barnsley or Oldham but, sadly with the time and resources he's had at his disposal, he's not good enough for BCFC. I can't see Mr Lansdown getting rid so, hopefully we'll see an upturn in fortune and I'll come back and say I was wrong.

[cidered abroad]

Wishful thinking, Rich. 

[Red Skin]

22 hours ago, italian dave said:

Reflecting on the long journey back yesterday, I do wonder whether the whole 'we've over-achieved' thing that was going on early part of the year has been a factor. We saw a lot of it in the press, among fans, on here, and then we had the MA statement about us not having anticipated a promotion push. It's almost like that gave the players permission to take the foot off the gas and to think that they'd already done all that was expected of them this season.

Maybe.

I suspect that was more about managing those outside the squad to damper expectations and a different message was given to the players internally.

As it is you only have to look of here to see how overboard some have gone even WITH those statements from the club about trying to dampen down expectations and trying take some pressure off.  

The club really can't win.  Say we are going for it, and you set yourself up with some.  Say you aren't and you lack ambition with others.  Some oh here need to get less emotional about these kind of statements and save their passion for games.

[Red Skin]

On 07/04/2018 at 17:41, ReggyRed said:

You guys are hilarious. In poor form granted, but we are 9th in the league!

Agree 100%.

These debates go way beyond the latest reactionary response.

- what do people want from going to football?  Success at all costs or having a club playing local kids that play the right way and is sustainable and will be there for your kids?

- how important do you place football in your life?  If you are getting that angry about it, reassess your priorities in life.  

 

[Nogbad the Bad]

On 4/8/2018 at 09:09, Red Army Faction said:

+ Players are growing together in experience and knowledge.  Young and still hungry squad.

- I do wonder if LJ has reverted to Over coaching again, like he admitted was a failing last season.

Not so young really, and certainly not appearing 'hungry' this past few months.

If the players were hungry previously it now looks like they've had a bellyful - of what we don't know.

[Nogbad the Bad]

23 hours ago, glynriley said:

1990-91 we finished 9th, 2 points off the play offs. We may not better that this season. 

As for "We're Bristol City" I hope you're saying that in jest. Or don't you think we should look to emulate those other giants of the game who have played in the premier league, like Swindon, Oldham, Barnsley and Bradford?

Stay for now, but something has to give with these long spells of poor form. Massive season for him coming next I feel. 

Thing is glyn I remember saying exactly the same thing at the end of last season.

'Benefit of the doubt for now but he's had these awful soul destroying runs every season he's been a manager and he absolutely must show they are not inevitable by ensuring he does not have one this coming season.'

Yet here we are, similar has happened again, and I bet there are not many on here who would bet against a recurrence yet again in 2018/19.

[glynriley]

7 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Thing is glyn I remember saying exactly the same thing at the end of last season.

'Benefit of the doubt for now but he's had these awful soul destroying runs every season he's been a manager and he absolutely must show they are not inevitable by ensuring he does not have one this coming season.'

Yet here we are, similar has happened again, and I bet there are not many on here who would bet against a recurrence yet again in 2018/19.

It's a poser isn't it?

I've no idea what SL would do if we got off to a good start next season, then had another bad spell, but finished in the top 10 again.

If a bad spell does come again, LJ better hope he's got some points on the board beforehand, because if it comes at the start of next season, I don't think he'll get much sympathy from the AG crowd.

[Nogbad the Bad]

22 hours ago, Clevedon Red said:

I can’t subscribe to that allowing us to go down to rebuild, surely SL feels we are still rebuilding and to allow us to go down would be financial suicide.

SL was seemingly ready to accept relegation last season.

LJ would otherwise surely have gone after the shameful PNE capitulation because not only were results terrible, but performances too. The players appeared to have stopped playing for the manager and we looked certain to go down.

What happened in the last few games couldn't have been predicted - the complete turnaround in form and results was a near miracle ( and needed to be) and doesn't prove SL was right or that similar stubbornness on his part would reap such temporary rewards next time.

He'd probably left it too late for change by then anyway, the die had been cast weeks before by inaction and our ultimate fate was left in the lap of the God's, who fortunately for all concerned turned out to be on SL's side.

[lenred]

7 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

SL was seemingly ready to accept relegation last season.

LJ would otherwise surely have gone after the shameful PNE capitulation because not only were results terrible, but performances too. The players appeared to have stopped playing for the manager and we looked certain to go down.

What happened in the last few games couldn't have been predicted - the complete turnaround in form and results was a near miracle ( and needed to be) and doesn't prove SL was right or that similar stubbornness on his part would reap such temporary rewards next time.

He'd probably left it too late for change by then anyway, the die had been cast weeks before by inaction and our ultimate fate was left in the lap of the God's, who fortunately for all concerned turned out to be on SL's side.

And because of that, and the amount of congratulatory back slapping that went on pre Christmas from the national media as a result for sticking with LJ in the face of such adversity,  SL will not hold back from making the same decision again should we find ourselves in the same position next season. All hypothetical now of course and hopefully irrelevant but his decision to stick with LJ last season will mean he’s here as long as he wants as far as I can see - regardless. 

['Orns]

On 07/04/2018 at 17:21, Northern Red said:

He's going nowhere, and nor should he.

A bad start to next season would see him in trouble though, especially if he spends a load more money in the summer. 

Said the same last summer. Same for me right now

On 07/04/2018 at 17:36, Lew-T said:

I don’t want him gone. But he doesn’t seem to be learning..

Although this worries me too

Can't be arsed to read the whole thread, I'm sure there are many arguments happening between the 'stay' and 'go' camp. I can see both sides. The ability to go on long unbeaten runs has saved LJs bacon in the past, but the ability to do the same without winning is a massive concern for me. I don't know how to fix that, if LJ doesn't either then he has to go. Then I look at the table and think how I'd have snapped your arm off last August to be where we are

Rock and a hard place springs to mind

[Major Isewater]

17 hours ago, Robin1988 said:

Yes, but I thought I should pick one and stick to it.

Good man .

[Major Isewater]

43 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

SL was seemingly ready to accept relegation last season.

LJ would otherwise surely have gone after the shameful PNE capitulation because not only were results terrible, but performances too. The players appeared to have stopped playing for the manager and we looked certain to go down.

What happened in the last few games couldn't have been predicted - the complete turnaround in form and results was a near miracle ( and needed to be) and doesn't prove SL was right or that similar stubbornness on his part would reap such temporary rewards next time.

He'd probably left it too late for change by then anyway, the die had been cast weeks before by inaction and our ultimate fate was left in the lap of the God's, who fortunately for all concerned turned out to be on SL's side.

I think it was the moment that everybody realised that LJ wasn't going anywhere so we just had to make the most of it .

It depresses me a little that LJ seems to have such a ' safe ' position.

 I'm all for giving someone time to get things right but it feels like LJ can do no wrong in SL's eyes and will only go when he wants to .

I'm not so sure that it is a healthy situation.

[Beni71]

I’m in the LJ remain camp. It’s not been a great run and performance has been well below par. Fully accepted.

That said implications of managerial change normally result in:

- change in back room staff

- exodus of players 

- change in playing style

- improvement in performance or degradation in performance 

- numerous threads on OTIB slagging off new manager 

- numerous threads on OTIB slagging off SL for sacking manager

Whilst replacing LJ could improve performance, it could also make it worse. I’m sure some will argue that shouldn’t be a reason to change but it is a consideration. The other consideration is who out there could we attract? Unlikely a big name as we don’t have the budget to attract that name. Would we want an Alan Pardew/Chris Coleman? Hardly raging successes 

An unknown European manager?

Maybe a young uk manager - Tisdale?

All hypothetical at the moment but implications would be fairly big and don’t guarantee you a thing.

[Natchfever]

All I would say, is that if the club really really wants to improve, then it needs to do so on and off the pitch in terms of personnel.

If you consider LJ's performances over the past two seasons you would say it has been patchy to say the least, and he has been party to the acquisition of enough players to mean the squad is now definitely "his". So, even if SL did make funds available (again) who is to say that firstly, the think tank behind recruitment would get it right,  and secondly if genuine Champ quality players were brought in, that LJ and his coaching team could actually do anything with them?

I would like to see him gone personally. I don't know who could or should replace him, but that's a job for someone with an intimate knowledge of the professional game - which isn't anyone on this forum.

[Nogbad the Bad]

3 minutes ago, Beni71 said:

I’m in the LJ remain camp. It’s not been a great run and performance has been well below par. Fully accepted.

That said implications of managerial change normally result in:

- change in back room staff

- exodus of players 

- change in playing style

- improvement in performance or degradation in performance 

- numerous threads on OTIB slagging off new manager 

- numerous threads on OTIB slagging off SL for sacking manager

Whilst replacing LJ could improve performance, it could also make it worse. I’m sure some will argue that shouldn’t be a reason to change but it is a consideration. The other consideration is who out there could we attract? Unlikely a big name as we don’t have the budget to attract that name. Would we want an Alan Pardew/Chris Coleman? Hardly raging successes 

An unknown European manager?

Maybe a young uk manager - Tisdale?

All hypothetical at the moment but implications would be fairly big and don’t guarantee you a thing.

BCFC has to be a reasonably contented club - dressing room and stands - and the football has to be worth watching.We need to be able to attend AG in the knowledge, that win or lose, our team will consistently visibly give us 100% effort and something to shout about.

LJ has become divisive, not because he is GJ's son, but because of his now predictable dreadful runs of performances and results.

All too easy for one train of thought to support him tenaciously by insisting on pointing out the 'bigger picture'; equally valid for others to withdraw support because these bad runs sap the enthusiasm, and when you know they're just around the corner, and history shows they will be prolonged, it's even worse.

LJ provides ammunition for each side to become entrenched in their views so it's hard to see the fanbase ever being united under him, or therefore BCFC being a contented club.

If LJ could just stop these awful runs, and by doing so prove he is learning from his mistakes, and improving and maturing as a coach, it seems to me the fanbase would be as fully behind him as any manager, anywhere, could expect.

But we said that at the end of last season and unfortunately this season yet another predictable collapse seems further proof this is unlikely to happen, so underlying murmurs of disappointment and discontent gaining volume does seem inevitable.

Who could we attract in the event of LJ going? No idea, but I don't think many of us thought of Barnsley's inexperienced and mediocre Lee Johnson a likely candidate last time!!

[Robin1988]

52 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

If LJ could just stop these awful runs, and by doing so prove he is learning from his mistakes, and improving and maturing as a coach, it seems to me the fanbase would be as fully behind him as any manager, anywhere, could expect.

I completely agree the runs need sorting out pronto, but if he's not learning or improving what's taken us from fighting relegation last season to where we are now?

Of course us fans are going to be disappointed by the runs, it's depressingly inevitable and betting on Millwall was the first pick in my acca on Saturday. But maybe we need some more appreciation as a fan base of the season as a whole? This season has been very black and white in terms of good form and bad, but the nuance is that we haven't been in this kind of position at this stage of the season since 2009.