Should he stay or go

[HoldenBall]

Stay, obviously. Apart from the 70's and 2008 can someone please show me a better season we've had in the 2nd tier? Bit of perspective please. We're Bristol City. 

[Robbored]

1 hour ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

but I certainly don’t think the three January signings and the immediate attempts to shoehorn them into the side with a complete negative effect , but persisted with ,may not have gone down too well

Interesting thought.....it could also be said that the returning injured players may have had the same effect. 

[Redmycolour]

8 minutes ago, bristolcitysweden said:

Should he stay or should he go?

It's always tease, tease, tease..

 

How much I hate to say it, but he's not going anywhere, he's was a cheap option as head coach for Lansdown, he won't achieve nothing in this league, "well not promotion".the quicker he goes, I'll go to the pub and get drunk,and I don't drink, I'll support the team 100%,BUT NOT JOHNSON 

[BobBobSuperBob]

6 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Interesting thought.....it could also be said that the returning injured players may have had the same effect. 

Tactically possibly, but I would hope Famara and Pisano were integrated & positive and popular members socially within the squad 

No particular slur on Dionys , Walsh’s or Kent’s personalities but the6 were outsiders coming in , Walsh albeit as a permanent addition and were shoehorned in , with I would suggest established squad.  / Side members questioning the justification and what they were contributing

[Robin1988]

13 hours ago, Rich said:

I don't have and if I'm honest, I've never had much confidence in LJ as our manager. I don't think he showed anything as a young manager at his previous clubs to think he'd be a good manager for BCFC. I think, he was known to the owners, was young, cheapish, and available with compensation. I think he fitted the bill of what SL wants in his club, that is, young and hungry. Trouble is, he can't decide what to have from the menu to feed that hunger, especially when there's a greater variety of choice. Give him a choice of soup, for a starter, steak for main course and apple pie for dessert and he chooses correctly. Put two starters, three main courses and a cheeseboard as a dessert option and he cocks up his selection.

He must have spent twenty years at least in the game, four of which as a manager. If I'd spent that long in a profession with the intension of continuing into management, I'd know that job inside out. He was a rookie at Oldham and a rookie for the first part at Barnsley. If he doesn't know his job by now, he shouldn't be doing it.

I see you have a selective appreciation of facts here Rich. But well done on the slightly unhinged analogy.

He left Oldham more than 3 years ago. They’ve never been higher than they were that day, on a shoestring League 1 budget.

However you look at it, he sewed the seeds of Barnsley’s promotion the following season. They were on the play-off fringes when he left, Heckingbottom got them over the line very well.

What about that shows you NOTHING that he could succeed? It seems rather bizarre to me.

Oh and anyone who has been anywhere near the game will tell you playing and managing are totally different. Anyone with half a brain could probably work that one out.

[The Original OTIB]

1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Tactically possibly, but I would hope Famara and Pisano were integrated & positive and popular members socially within the squad 

No particular slur on Dionys , Walsh’s or Kent’s personalities but the6 were outsiders coming in , Walsh albeit as a permanent addition and were shoehorned in , with I would suggest established squad.  / Side members questioning the justification and what they were contributing

Review the tapes on Norwich at Home and Brentford. Easy passes to Walsh were shunned early on because nobody apparently wanted to pass to him. Probably more trust than anything... but... and he nearly gifted a goal to Norwich early on with a pass straight to a yellow shirt. 

[The Original OTIB]

4 minutes ago, Robin1988 said:

I see you have a selective appreciation of facts here Rich. But well done on the slightly unhinged analogy.

He left Oldham more than 3 years ago. They’ve never been higher than they were that day, on a shoestring League 1 budget.

However you look at it, he sewed the seeds of Barnsley’s promotion the following season. They were on the play-off fringes when he left, Heckingbottom got them over the line very well.

What about that shows you NOTHING that he could succeed? It seems rather bizarre to me.

Oh and anyone who has been anywhere near the game will tell you playing and managing are totally different. Anyone with half a brain could probably work that one out.

Make that "sowed".

[Major Isewater]

We all know that when eventually LJ leaves the club that he'll go on to win promotion with other clubs and probably a bit of silverware as well .

 

[BobBobSuperBob]

2 minutes ago, The Original OTIB said:

Review the tapes on Norwich at Home and Brentford. Easy passes to Walsh were shunned early on because nobody apparently wanted to pass to him. Probably more trust than anything... but... and he nearly gifted a goal to Norwich early on with a pass straight to a yellow shirt. 

As somebody who was enthusiastic on the reports of him when he signed I watched his star5 against Norwich closely

Initially he was constantly demanding the ball and making a lot of arm / hand gestures to enforce this (Likely just wanting to impress and may be unfair but came across a bit as Billy Big B******* wanting to be the Lynch pin)

Early on IIRC he gave the ball away and was caught in possession and I sensed (And posted at the time) that I thought he started into irritate some of the other players - I remember Korey ‘speaking’ to him

[The Original OTIB]

1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

As somebody who was enthusiastic on the reports of him when he signed I watched his star5 against Norwich closely

Initially he was constantly demanding the ball and making a lot of arm / hand gestures to enforce this (Likely just wanting to impress and may be unfair but came across a bit as Billy Big B******* wanting to be the Lynch pin)

Early on IIRC he gave the ball away and was caught in possession and I sensed (And posted at the time) that I thought he started into irritate some of the other players - I remember Korey ‘speaking’ to him

Kilkenny tribute act?

[Hampshire reds]

I do think from Jan up to now we have lost our way. will lee. Jamie.  Dean learn from this only time will tell. I have a thought we may need a top experience coach to help them. just to pass on experience. it can only beca poditive move. 

[glynriley]

45 minutes ago, Sergio Georgini said:

Stay, obviously. Apart from the 70's and 2008 can someone please show me a better season we've had in the 2nd tier? Bit of perspective please. We're Bristol City. 

1990-91 we finished 9th, 2 points off the play offs. We may not better that this season. 

As for "We're Bristol City" I hope you're saying that in jest. Or don't you think we should look to emulate those other giants of the game who have played in the premier league, like Swindon, Oldham, Barnsley and Bradford?

Stay for now, but something has to give with these long spells of poor form. Massive season for him coming next I feel. 

[RedRock]

1 hour ago, italian dave said:

100% with this RAF. 

I think this summers window will be important again, as you say some need moving on and for me a fit O'Neill type and a goalkeeper are our priorities.

Reflecting on the long journey back yesterday, I do wonder whether the whole 'we've over-achieved' thing that was going on early part of the year has been a factor. We saw a lot of it in the press, among fans, on here, and then we had the MA statement about us not having anticipated a promotion push. It's almost like that gave the players permission to take the foot off the gas and to think that they'd already done all that was expected of them this season.

I think that what LJ needs to do now is to instil into the players the fact that it's now not about the play offs, or about the league position at all, it's just about getting a bit of pride back in the final 5 games. 

Yep... I can’t see Mark Ashton getting a career in motivational speaking anytime soon.

 

[glynriley]

20 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

As somebody who was enthusiastic on the reports of him when he signed I watched his star5 against Norwich closely

Initially he was constantly demanding the ball and making a lot of arm / hand gestures to enforce this (Likely just wanting to impress and may be unfair but came across a bit as Billy Big B******* wanting to be the Lynch pin)

Early on IIRC he gave the ball away and was caught in possession and I sensed (And posted at the time) that I thought he started into irritate some of the other players - I remember Korey ‘speaking’ to him

Flint as well. At a corner we had at the Atyeo end he was pointing at Flint at waving his arm about. Flint stopped and said something to him. Presumably "I know what I'm ******* doing"!!!

[EstoniaTallinnRed]

16 hours ago, Dolman Block B said:

Think the manager has to be given another chance.

Ok, dreadful since the start of 2018 and the last thing we need is to start poorly in August

What im at ends with is the people we brought in Jan.

Dreadful. 

Lee said he thought the squad was strong enough to challenge but the french striker, the loanee Kent have been awful.

Walsh, well hes part of the squad now so has to have a chance, we have to wait and see.

Not sure if LJ has a massive influence on signings but if its down to Ashton and others that has to stop.

Still, in August 2017, if someone would have said 8th finish in the Championship , Semi final of a major cup final, crowds averaging 21,000 plus i would have snapped anyones hands off

 

You honestly thing we will finish 8th,  I don't see us winning many if any of the remaining games. We should beat Brum, but remember the end of last season,  did we beat them, NO!   I think we will finish 11th or even 12th, which is poor after being in 2nd place just after Christmas.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[italian dave]

1 hour ago, The Original OTIB said:

Make that "sowed".

No, he meant sewed. He's a dab hand at cross stitch is our Lee, didn't you know? His portrayal of the five pillars that would lead Barnsley to the promised land of the Championship was framed and hangs in the Barnesley board room to this day. 

[The Original OTIB]

stitch-up?

[Guest]

14 hours ago, Top Robin said:

His clueless tinkering tells me he will never take us up. 

Also he has not bought players cleverly. 

Probably make a decent div1 manager but championship he is not. 

I actually think that when we had a good run earlier this season it was more by luck than judgement and he was as surprised as us which is worrying. 

Ask yourselves honestly that if we had someone like Warnock in charge would we still be in the play off at least. 

GO NOW AND GET A PROPER MANAGER IN.......... Wont happen due to the SL and LJ love in. 

 

Too true, we will have to face much more pain yet and waffle that comes from LJ and the BS management

[tinman85]

25 minutes ago, Bri Stool City said:

Too true, we will have to face much more pain yet and waffle that comes from LJ and the BS management

We haven't been as good as people think this season. We've scraped results. List the games where we have actually played outstanding football. The Sheff U win away we should have been 3 or 4 down at HT. rode our luck in that spell. Even v Forest and Reading at home. Last season I felt we played better at times during the losing run than we have since Jan. 

[E.J.Thribb]

3 minutes ago, tinman85 said:

We haven't been as good as people think this season. We've scraped results. List the games where we have actually played outstanding football. The Sheff U win away we should have been 3 or 4 down at HT. rode our luck in that spell. Even v Forest and Reading at home. Last season I felt we played better at times during the losing run than we have since Jan. 

If my auntie had balls she’d have been my uncle.

How many times did we scrape wins when winning L1? No team ever plays outstanding football all season, luck sometimes plays a part when things are going well.

Cardiff haven’t been outstanding all year and have probably scraped some lucky wins...that’s football. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, tinman85 said:

We haven't been as good as people think this season. We've scraped results. List the games where we have actually played outstanding football. The Sheff U win away we should have been 3 or 4 down at HT. rode our luck in that spell. Even v Forest and Reading at home. Last season I felt we played better at times during the losing run than we have since Jan. 

As said elsewhere no doubt we "will go again" next season.........without doubt, with the same management. I also believe SL will even let him take us down "to re-build" and I see no hope for the foresee-able future at all.

[Clevedon Red]

2 minutes ago, Bri Stool City said:

As said elsewhere no doubt we "will go again" next season.........without doubt, with the same management. I also believe SL will even let him take us down "to re-build" and I see no hope for the foresee-able future at all.

I can’t subscribe to that allowing us to go down to rebuild, surely SL feels we are still rebuilding and to allow us to go down would be financial suicide.

[E.J.Thribb]

7 minutes ago, Bri Stool City said:

As said elsewhere no doubt we "will go again" next season.........without doubt, with the same management. I also believe SL will even let him take us down "to re-build" and I see no hope for the foresee-able future at all.

I doubt that. This current ‘doom and gloom’ outlook is no different to when we played Millwall in August when many would have you believe we were destined to go down this season....

 

[Davefevs]

13 hours ago, Robbored said:

This thread simply highlights just how uninformed some fans are. 

Dont they ever listen to what SL says? ..................

I think lots of us are pretty well informed, understand what SL has been saying, but we have our doubts.  SL is also not stupid.  Don’t forget he and LJ had a very long meeting re his future.  That could’ve ended with LJ going, but ultimately Pemberton and Tomlin were the fall guys....rightly or wrongly.  Imho, Tomlin definitely, Pemberton, not so sure.

13 hours ago, CotswoldRed said:

The thread title asks "should he stay or go". Not whether SL will sanction it. 

Indeed.

13 hours ago, Robbored said:

What's the point of asking a rhetorical question?

It’s a forum.  You can’t keep blasting out the ‘haven't you listened to SL’....we have and we have opinions.

13 hours ago, Bedred31 said:

Johnson's criticisms are spot on. The players need to step up and show more - a lot more. The problem is not Johnson's comments as part of his management, but rather that this is all his management can muster. After an average playing career, as a manager he's young, inexperienced and, as a short man, lacks physical presence. He simply can't muster the authority to either instill fear or put a fatherly arm around a player that needs it, both things that would come naturally to someone like Warnock. When things are going well, his attacking, playmaking philosophy works well, but when things are tough and man management assumes a greater importance, he doesn't have it. And this is not going to change any time soon.

I don’t necessarily buy the ‘average’ player, inexperienced manager bit, but I do feel that you can struggle to have clout in the Dressing Room, if you don’t have experiences to fall back on that the players buy into.  Re man-management he obviously didn’t handle Tomlin very well.  Re the losing runs / poor form - what you really want to be able to say is "when I did this at club x we started winning" or "when I played for big club Y, we had a similar run, and we got around it by doing Z", etc.  LJ doesn’t have those "clubs in his bag", it’s all a bit theoretical and players don’t buy theory. 

3 hours ago, Andy082005 said:

100% agree with you about the next five games. Make or break for Johnson...it really is. The play-offs are gone...anyone who says otherwise, are deluded...however he has to finish the season strongly otherwise as you said, it will be a long summer

Personally...I think he is all out of ideas and his post match comments after Millwall have proved it. He has now started throwing around the threats of "they are playing for their future"...when 2 months ago it was "we call ourselves a premiership club in training"

12 months ago we had all the "I need players I can trust".

Players have gone...new faces have come in, yet I feel we are right back to square one and right back to where we ended last season. Its like we need ANOTHER summer of rebuilding...when really, it should never have come to that 

I think what people are finding hard to swallow...myself included...is that in November/December time we all actually felt that he had matured as a coach and we really were moving in the right direction. We all felt that the club actually did have a game plan and LJ was starting ti execute it. Even the most negative of posters started to believe it.

Sadly it appears we all thought wrong

Some people are clinging on to this "bigger picture"  myth...when in reality, deep down, they know there isnt one.

The capitulation since January is so much more concerning then last seasons run of form. These are experienced players now who should have gone into the second half of the season and done exactly what Millwall have done. Played with no real pressure and expressed themselves. Thee results would have taken care of themselves

To capitulate like we have...there must be something wrong with the the coaching. 

 

The post-match stuff highlights a big issue, it’s almost like he’s no idea.  He may have learned to not blame players to the media, but you can just imagine what has gone on inside the changing room.

[tinman85]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

I think lots of us are pretty well informed, understand what SL has been saying, but we have our doubts.  SL is also not stupid.  Don’t forget he and LJ had a very long meeting re his future.  That could’ve ended with LJ going, but ultimately Pemberton and Tomlin were the fall guys....rightly or wrongly.  Imho, Tomlin definitely, Pemberton, not so sure.

Indeed.

It’s a forum.  You can’t keep blasting out the ‘haven't you listened to SL’....we have and we have opinions.

I don’t necessarily buy the ‘average’ player, inexperienced manager bit, but I do feel that you can struggle to have clout in the Dressing Room, if you don’t have experiences to fall back on that the players buy into.  Re man-management he obviously didn’t handle Tomlin very well.  Re the losing runs / poor form - what you really want to be able to say is "when I did this at club x we started winning" or "when I played for big club Y, we had a similar run, and we got around it by doing Z", etc.  LJ doesn’t have those "clubs in his bag", it’s all a bit theoretical and players don’t buy theory. 

The post-match stuff highlights a big issue, it’s almost like he’s no idea.  He may have learned to not blame players to the media, but you can just imagine what has gone on inside the changing room.

For a manager to say he has tried everything and can't put his finger on the poor form since Jan is very concerning and is enough to show he is out of his depth sadly. Change is needed 

[Davefevs]

10 minutes ago, tinman85 said:

For a manager to say he has tried everything and can't put his finger on the poor form since Jan is very concerning and is enough to show he is out of his depth sadly. Change is needed 

Awful thing to say, whether you think it or not.  An example of saying too much.....lie if so!!!

[BobBobSuperBob]

4 hours ago, Andy082005 said:

100% agree with you about the next five games. Make or break for Johnson...it really is. The play-offs are gone...anyone who says otherwise, are deluded...however he has to finish the season strongly otherwise as you said, it will be a long summer

Personally...I think he is all out of ideas and his post match comments after Millwall have proved it. He has now started throwing around the threats of "they are playing for their future"...when 2 months ago it was "we call ourselves a premiership club in training"

12 months ago we had all the "I need players I can trust".

Players have gone...new faces have come in, yet I feel we are right back to square one and right back to where we ended last season. Its like we need ANOTHER summer of rebuilding...when really, it should never have come to that 

I think what people are finding hard to swallow...myself included...is that in November/December time we all actually felt that he had matured as a coach and we really were moving in the right direction. We all felt that the club actually did have a game plan and LJ was starting ti execute it. Even the most negative of posters started to believe it.

Sadly it appears we all thought wrong

Some people are clinging on to this "bigger picture"  myth...when in reality, deep down, they know there isnt one.

The capitulation since January is so much more concerning then last seasons run of form. These are experienced players now who should have gone into the second half of the season and done exactly what Millwall have done. Played with no real pressure and expressed themselves. Thee results would have taken care of themselves

To capitulate like we have...there must be something wrong with the the coaching. 

 

Missed this 

Really Excellent Post Andy IMHO  though some posters will cry harsh and the odd one outraged 

 

I may change one word and replace with ‘managing’ ’in its broader term (Communication. Recruitment / selection and use of esources) rather than specifically work on the training ground 

[BS4 on Tour...]

3 hours ago, Sergio Georgini said:

Stay, obviously. Apart from the 70's and 2008 can someone please show me a better season we've had in the 2nd tier? Bit of perspective please. We're Bristol City. 

1990/1991 was pretty ok.....we finished 9th in the second tier, won 20 games, scored 68 goals and finished on 67 points...that could turn out to be better than this season....

[BS4 on Tour...]

14 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Awful thing to say, whether you think it or not.  An example of saying too much.....lie if so!!!

Absolutely! Like after the horrendous game away at PNE last season when he basically said he didn’t know what to do and had run out of all ideas...

[glynriley]

2 hours ago, glynriley said:

1990-91 we finished 9th, 2 points off the play offs. We may not better that this season. 

As for "We're Bristol City" I hope you're saying that in jest. Or don't you think we should look to emulate those other giants of the game who have played in the premier league, like Swindon, Oldham, Barnsley and Bradford?

Stay for now, but something has to give with these long spells of poor form. Massive season for him coming next I feel. 

 

2 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

1990/1991 was pretty ok.....we finished 9th in the second tier, won 20 games, scored 68 goals and finished on 67 points...that could turn out to be better than this season....

Ahem.....