Recruitment

[GrahamC]

Serious question, who exactly is our head of recruitment now?

Since Des Taylor was sacked the club seems to have been very opaque about who holds the post.

I have seen Mervyn Day mentioned & he was definitely a European scout for us after Matthieu Louis Jean (the guy who found Kodjia) left, but if it is him, then it seems very strange that he moved into the top role with no official comment.

Pretty obvious, but this area seems badly in need of a total overhaul after the January failures of Diony and Kent, plus what has seemed a scattergun approach to signings, especially to strikers.

Engvall, Djuric, Woodrow, Taylor to name but 4, how many of them can really be seen as successful?

How many of them did we actually need?

[Ivorguy]

Let's add in some of the others:

De Girolamo, Leko, Walsh, Kent, Diony

[BobBobSuperBob]

3 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Serious question, who exactly is our head of recruitment now?

Since Des Taylor was sacked the club seems to have been very opaque about who holds the post.

I have seen Mervyn Day mentioned & he was definitely a European scout for us after Matthieu Louis Jean (the guy who found Kodjia) left, but if it is him, then it seems very strange that he moved into the top role with no official comment.

Pretty obvious, but this area seems badly in need of a total overhaul after the January failures of Diony and Kent, plus what has seemed a scattergun approach to signings, especially to strikers.

Engvall, Djuric, Woodrow, Taylor to name but 4, how many of them can really be seen as successful?

How many of them did we actually need?

It’s Day as I understand Graham

Whether he works solely for us I’m not so sure

something seriously amiss with our scouting 

The head of recruitment and scouting network is  (At least) as important as the appointment of the right manager / head coach for me

Ill repeat what a current premiership, and well proven Manager ,said to me when I was asking him about aspects of management said to me as the major factor to being successful 

’You are only as good as the players you sign’

Take Diony - Either no one watched him actually play in the months leading up to his signing or they watched somebody else by mistake as there is no way a player can suddenly look what he he looks right now

or

Weve taken a complete punt based on reports and / or his goals / performances of 12-18months ago and believed for some reason that LJ would get a tune out of him where those at St Ettienne were failing

Whats also startling in my book is that we are now on at least our third head of recruitment / scouting set up since we got promoted

Whats all that about - hardly ideal in any business 

Speaks volumes and another alarm bell ringing loudly

 

Meanwhile MA & LJ bob along , fireproof

 

 

ohhh we can add Leko to this seasons list of loan casualties too

[GrahamC]

21 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

Let's add in some of the others:

De Girolamo, Leko, Walsh, Kent, Diony

Hard to include De Girolamo here, as I understand it he was signed on the recommendation of Pemberton, on low wages and we moved him on pretty sharpish.

No yet convinced by Walsh but will acknowledge he does at least fit the model we claim to be following.

[exAtyeoMax]

I'd like to know exactly why Des was sacked…

He came with such glowing references/reputation

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, exAtyeoMax said:

I'd like to know exactly why Des was sacked…

He came with such glowing references/reputation

@bristolcitysweden always claims the agents got £600k out of this deal.  Could DT have been a recipient? 

[exAtyeoMax]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

@bristolcitysweden always claims the agents got £600k out of this deal.  Could DT have been a recipient? 

The Engvall deal?

[Esmond Million's Bung]

2 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

It’s Day as I understand Graham

Whether he works solely for us I’m not so sure

something seriously amiss with our scouting 

The head of recruitment and scouting network is  (At least) as important as the appointment of the right manager / head coach for me

Ill repeat what a current premiership, and well proven Manager ,said to me when I was asking him about aspects of management said to me as the major factor to being successful 

’You are only as good as the players you sign’

Take Diony - Either no one watched him actually play in the months leading up to his signing or they watched somebody else by mistake as there is no way a player can suddenly look what he he looks right now

or

Weve taken a complete punt based on reports and / or his goals / performances of 12-18months ago and believed for some reason that LJ would get a tune out of him where those at St Ettienne were failing

Whats also startling in my book is that we are now on at least our third head of recruitment / scouting set up since we got promoted

Whats all that about - hardly ideal in any business 

Speaks volumes and another alarm bell ringing loudly

 

Meanwhile MA & LJ bob along , fireproof

 

 

ohhh we can add Leko to this seasons list of loan casualties too

Diony was believe it or not actually our first choice striker signing above Diedhiou, but the price of nearly 8mil + his desire to join his boyhood club (I believe) St Etienne made us opt for Diedhiou.

Here is my fear and really a snapshot into how BristolSport/BCFC seems to be run, having had a great start up to 2018 and a great cup run, crowds up to over 20k for home matches and great optimism for the future.

We then have a pathetically unambitious January window. LJ I believe who with mounting injuries thought that he could go on winging it and playing square pegs in round holes, hold on to the shirt tails of our rivals and come good with a late run with a fully fit squad and what we have ended up with is a demoralising run of 4 wins in 19 league games, a shocking loss of form, a team that has run out of ideas and manager whose only plan B  is even more square pegs in round holes and bizarre substitutions and baffling tactics, the club then hit the fans with the price increase fiasco, which is more about the way it was handled than the increases itself. It seems to me that every time things go well BS believe that they have cracked it and believe that the fans will swallow anything.

For me now unless we have a dross clear out and maybe a few 'cash ins' on a few 'stars' and some real quality signings during the summer, especially in midfield, we will lose momentum, fans and squad belief and crowds will shrink.

I saw a once together squad bitching amongst each other for much of the game yesterday, I saw during the 10 minute break for Bamford's injury a team stood around in small little cliques just aimlessly chatting amongst themselves, when earlier in the season they would have been grouped together around the coaching staff taking onboard more tactical information (especially about what to watch for from the oncoming sub) making slight tweaks and more importantly keeping stretched and warmed, I saw none of that and I believe that was unprofessional IMHO.

[Shtanley]

Mental that Ashton and Johnson both spoke so highly of Diony.

LJ saying he was a player of real pedigree and Ashton saying how they scouted him for 24 months.

Mental.

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Diony was believe it or not actually our first choice striker signing above Diedhiou, but the price of nearly 8mil + his desire to join his boyhood club (I believe) St Etienne made us opt for Diedhiou.

Here is my fear and really a snapshot into how BristolSport/BCFC seems to be run, having had a great start up to 2018 and a great cup run, crowds up to over 20k for home matches and great optimism for the future.

We then have a pathetically unambitious January window. LJ I believe who with mounting injuries thought that he could go on winging it and playing square pegs in round holes, hold on to the shirt tails of our rivals and come good with a late run with a fully fit squad and what we have ended up with is a demoralising run of 4 wins in 19 league games, a shocking loss of form, a team that has run out of ideas and manager whose only plan B  is even more square pegs in round holes and bizarre substitutions and baffling tactics, the club then hit the fans with the price increase fiasco, which is more about the way it was handled than the increases itself. It seems to me that every time things go well BS believe that they have cracked it and believe that the fans will swallow anything.

For me now unless we have a dross clear out and maybe a few 'cash ins' on a few 'stars' and some real quality signings during the summer, especially in midfield, we will lose momentum, fans and squad belief and crowds will shrink.

I saw a once together squad bitching amongst each other for much of the game yesterday, I saw during the 10 minute break for Bamford's injury a team stood around in small little cliques just aimlessly chatting amongst themselves, when earlier in the season they would have been grouped together around the coaching staff taking onboard more tactical information (especially about what to watch for from the oncoming sub) making slight tweaks and more importantly keeping stretched and warmed, I saw none of that and I believe that was unprofessional IMHO.

....or being very cynical and mischievous, was the "we’ve been looking at Diony for 18-24 months" a smokescreen to cover that they’d only seen his Youtube clips, looked at his stats on FM18?  It sounded good though.  

In fairness, I think he is a capable player, but it hasn’t worked here.

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 minute ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Diony was believe it or not actually our first choice striker signing above Diedhiou, but the price of nearly 8mil + his desire to join his boyhood club (I believe) St Etienne made us opt for Diedhiou.

OMG - I missed this EMB - Where was this said ? By someone at Club ?

For me now unless we have a dross clear out and maybe a few 'cash ins' on a few 'stars' and some real quality signings during the summer, especially in midfield, we will lose momentum, fans and squad belief and crowds will shrink.

Agree

I saw a once together squad bitching amongst each other for much of the game yesterday, 

Been one of the obvious and increasing changes in recent months

 

[Northern Red]

18 minutes ago, Shtanley said:

Mental that Ashton and Johnson both spoke so highly of Diony.

LJ saying he was a player of real pedigree and Ashton saying how they scouted him for 24 months.

Mental.

To be fair to them, if they're being truthful then the first year or so' s worth of scouting would probably have impressed them if his record is anything to go by.

This year? Clearly not so much and they were obviously gambling on him recapturing the form that brought him to their attention in the first place. 

[Shtanley]

1 minute ago, Northern Red said:

To be fair to them, if they're being truthful then the first year or so' s worth of scouting would probably have impressed them if his record is anything to go by.

This year? Clearly not so much and they were obviously gambling on him recapturing the form that brought him to their attention in the first place. 

Yeah crazy that he got more goals than Diedhiou last season and I think got in the Ligue 1 squad of the year. What happened to due diligence on player's behaviour off the pitch and their mental attributes. Sometimes you wonder whether they're actually doing what they say they're doing.

[Davefevs]

Just now, Shtanley said:

Yeah crazy that he got more goals than Diedhiou last season and I think got in the Ligue 1 squad of the year. What happened to due diligence on player's behaviour off the pitch and their mental attributes. Sometimes you wonder whether they're actually doing what they say they're doing.

They had "fog of war" switched on in FM18 

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Diony

Bob, my old man heard an interview on Radio Bristol with Mark Ashton in late January where he said Diony was our number one target last summer but that we were outbid by St. Etienne, so we switched to Diedhiou (thank goodness) also that we now had a binding deal in place to buy him this summer for £4m!

Bit like Engvall being signed to play immediately (as remember we were initially told by LJ) I reckon this will now get quietly forgotten..

[Shtanley]

9 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Bob, my old man heard an interview on Radio Bristol with Mark Ashton in late January where he said Diony was our number one target last summer but that we were outbid by St. Etienne, so we switched to Diedhiou (thank goodness) also that we now had a binding deal in place to buy him this summer for £4m!

Bit like Engvall being signed to play immediately (as remember we were initially told by LJ) I reckon this will now get quietly forgotten..

I though it was an option to buy? Are you saying had we got promoted we would’ve been forced to buy him for £4m?

[Dynamite Red]

I am unconvinced by the majority of players signed in the Ashton/Johnson era, so many players who don't work out and a small fortune wasted. There have been a few successes but so much room for improvement that SL should be questioning those responsible.

[Fordy62]

Is it even more worrying then that we’ve signed a couple of players who are believed/known to have real quality - I’m thinking Leko & Kent & a striker a team saw fit to pay €9m for - and they’ve been unfathomably shit. 

And I mean it’s not like they’ve just underperformed a little, you could have almost guaranteed their level by picking three random blokes out of cribbs causeway and playing them. 

[Dynamite Red]

Credit @bearded_red for this list:

January 2016 (with added emergency loans made later in the season)

• Scott Golbourne
• Lee Tomlin (loan)
• Adam Matthews (loan
• Richard O'Donnell
• Alex Pearce (loan)
• Ben Gladwin (loan)
• Peter Odemwingie (loan)

Summer 2016

• Lee Tomlin
• Hörður Magnússon
• Taylor Moore
• Gustav Engvall
• Callum O'Dowda
• Diego De Girolamo
• Josh Brownhill
• Adam Matthews (loan)
• Tammy Abraham (loan)
• Jamie Paterson
• Ivan Lucic
• Joel Ekstrand
• Gary O'Neil

January 2017

• Milan Djuric
• Matty Taylor
• Jens Hegeler
• Fabian Gieffer (loan)
• Bailey Wright 
• Dave Cotterill (loan)

Summer 2017

• Famara Diehiou
• Nathan Baker
• Niclas Eliasson
• Eros Pisano
• Luke Steele
• Cauley Woodrow (loan)
• Jonathan Leko (loan)

January 2018

• Liam Walsh
• Lois Diony (loan)
• Ryan Kent (loan)

[Esmond Million's Bung]

43 minutes ago, Dynamite Red said:

Credit @bearded_red for this list:

January 2016 (with added emergency loans made later in the season)

• Scott Golbourne
• Lee Tomlin (loan)
• Adam Matthews (loan
• Richard O'Donnell
• Alex Pearce (loan)
• Ben Gladwin (loan)
• Peter Odemwingie (loan)

Summer 2016

• Lee Tomlin
• Hörður Magnússon
• Taylor Moore
• Gustav Engvall
• Callum O'Dowda
• Diego De Girolamo
• Josh Brownhill
• Adam Matthews (loan)
• Tammy Abraham (loan)
• Jamie Paterson
• Ivan Lucic
• Joel Ekstrand
• Gary O'Neil

January 2017

• Milan Djuric
• Matty Taylor
• Jens Hegeler
• Fabian Gieffer (loan)
• Bailey Wright 
• Dave Cotterill (loan)

Summer 2017

• Famara Diehiou
• Nathan Baker
• Niclas Eliasson
• Eros Pisano
• Luke Steele
• Cauley Woodrow (loan)
• Jonathan Leko (loan)

January 2018

• Liam Walsh
• Lois Diony (loan)
• Ryan Kent (loan)

5 really good players.

7 jury is out players in that list for me.

[BobBobSuperBob]

12 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

5 really good players.

7 jury is out players in that list for me.

Whose your 5 out of interest EMB

Im actually struggling to get near that for ‘really good’

[1960maaan]

Just looked at Diony's record to see why St. E would pay £9m and why we would try to sign him.

1.        game for Nantes no goals
13                  for Monte de Marsan 8 goals 
107.              for Djon         27 goals.  1 year in L1
16                 for St. Etienne  0 goals

So basically career average of under 1 in 3, his time in L1 he got 11 in 51.  £9m don't get you much.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, Shtanley said:

I though it was an option to buy? Are you saying had we got promoted we would’ve been forced to buy him for £4m?

There are different types of loans, eminently possible this was a loan with obligation to buy- happens in Italy quite a lot.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

4 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Whose your 5 out of interest EMB

Im actually struggling to get near that for ‘really good’

ODowda, Brownhill, Abraham, Djuric and Wright up until a couple of weeks ago (but everybody is entitled to a period of form loss and it's interesting that Wright was dropped so quickly compared to Paterson).

[Dynamite Red]

8 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

ODowda, Brownhill, Abraham, Djuric and Wright up until a couple of weeks ago (but everybody is entitled to a period of form loss and it's interesting that Wright was dropped so quickly compared to Paterson).

I would file Djuric mainly due to availability in the jury is out and Wright as good to average. 

Yesterday only 4 players started from all of those players signed and one of those was Baker who you could argue we knew all about as he was on loan under Cotterill. Our recruitment needs to improve, so much waste and should be under much more scrutiny.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

1 minute ago, Dynamite Red said:

I would file Djuric mainly due to availability in the jury is out and Wright as good to average. 

Yesterday 4 players started amongst all of those players signed and one of those was Baker who you could argue we knew all about as he was on loan under Cotterill. Our recruitment needs to improve, so much waste and should be under much more scrutiny.

My argument reference Djuric will always be if we can keep him fit he is a far better footballer than Diedhiou IMHO and is getting better, he holds the ball up better, is stronger and seems to have a better brain and most importantly he knows his limitations.

My argument for Wright is he always gives 100%, Baker over the last 2 games and quite a few under Cotterill looks like player whose mind is elsewhere mostly in Ayia Napa.

[Ska Junkie]

1 hour ago, Shtanley said:

I though it was an option to buy? Are you saying had we got promoted we would’ve been forced to buy him for £4m?

On another forum, a City poster has said Diony was arrested in Bristol last week and will never appear for the club again. I've no idea if this has any substance by the way.

[Gert Mare]

13 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

On another forum, a City poster has said Diony was arrested in Bristol last week and will never appear for the club again. I've no idea if this has any substance by the way.

Yes, for claiming to be a £9 Million striker.

[glynriley]

18 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

On another forum, a City poster has said Diony was arrested in Bristol last week and will never appear for the club again. I've no idea if this has any substance by the way.

Told some young lady he hadn't had any meaningful action in anyone's box for months. All went downhill from there. 

[GrahamC]

40 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Just looked at Diony's record to see why St. E would pay £9m and why we would try to sign him.

1.        game for Nantes no goals
13                  for Monte de Marsan 8 goals 
107.              for Djon         27 goals.  1 year in L1
16                 for St. Etienne  0 goals

So basically career average of under 1 in 3, his time in L1 he got 11 in 51.  £9m don't get you much.

You should take a look at Kodjia’s career record before his one great season at Angers then, it was worse..

The above means nothing at all- it is what you see once they join us, Diony had a season where he kept Dijon up almost singlehanded but immediately struggled at St. Etienne, we clearly got the St. Etienne version, not the Dijon one..