clearing the squad, who would you sell?

[reddogkev]

If you were in charge of the transfer business, who would you sell?  ** You're not allowed to say all of them!**

I'd start by moving on Magnússon, Hegeler, Engvall and Matty Taylor.  Would this be sufficient, or should we look to sell some more?

 

[JBFC II]

I'd sell engvall, Baker, Flint, Bryan and Reid (if he doesn't sign a new deal). 

I'd keep Magnússon, taylor and Hegeler, Magnússon I'd like to see at centre back alongside a dominant defender, Hegeler is a good utility player and I rate Taylor as an option up front. 

I'd also look at selling Wright who I'm not a fan of and my first priority would be to bring in a new right back

[Wolf Island]

Almost all are replaceable. All except Bobby, Korey, Marlon, Famara, Callum and Lloyd have let the club down. Wouldn't be sad to see the back of any of 'em. 

[reddogkev]

3 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I'd sell Magnússon and Engvall. I'd keep hegeler as an emergency 5th choice centre back and I don't think anyone would make an offer anyway. I'd sell Reid, Bryan and Pack if they don't sign new deals. And I'd sell Flint if someone bidded 10 or more million. I'd even sell Baker if a good bid came in. Hopefully bring in Webster from Ipswich. Best to get our incoming transfers done before selling. 

That's a lot of top talent your shifting there!  I'd only sell Reid if the money was too good to turn down, and would then fund 2 or 3 decent players.

Just imagine if Flint, Reid and Bryan were sold, we'd bank 20 million from that lot.

[reddogkev]

4 minutes ago, Ser Davos Ciderworth said:

Almost all are replaceable. All except Bobby, Korey, Marlon, Famara, Callum and Lloyd have let the club down. Wouldn't be sad to see the back of any of 'em. 

That's harsh, I don't think you can say they've let the club down - lost their form yes, lost their confidence yes, but let the club down?  I disagree.

[BRISTOL86]

Bobby is the only player I’d genuinely care if they left. Most of the others have shown repeatedly that they’re just average championship players (not that there’s anything wrong with that) and would be fairly easily replaceable.

[Laner]

4 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

That's a lot of top talent your shifting there!  I'd only sell Reid if the money was too good to turn down, and would then fund 2 or 3 decent players.

Just imagine if Flint, Reid and Bryan were sold, we'd bank 20 million from that lot.

And then p*ss it away on bad players if the last transfer window was anything to go by.

[GrahamC]

I know this may seem obvious, but you can only sell someone if you have a buyer..

Taylor Moore, for instance, if LJ has decided he has no future here, I doubt we would get even a fifth back of what we paid at present, so do you accept that?

Hegeler falls into the same category, I know he was a low fee, but no way will his wages be.

Once you get beyond the very few who are out of contract, the more likely issue will be those we don’t want to sell but who attract big offers and who know they can treble their wages by going..

[old_eastender]

I'd start with the manager to WBA, or anybody else that would take him, so we don't have to pay compensation!

 

Regarding the players, would certainly not look to sell Matty Taylor, otherwise exactly this:

42 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I'd sell Magnússon and Engvall. I'd keep hegeler as an emergency 5th choice centre back and I don't think anyone would make an offer anyway. I'd sell Reid, Bryan and Pack if they don't sign new deals. And I'd sell Flint if someone bidded 10 or more million. I'd even sell Baker if a good bid came in. Hopefully bring in Webster from Ipswich. Best to get our incoming transfers done before selling. 

 

[Mendip City]

1 hour ago, Laner said:

And then p*ss it away on bad players if the last transfer window was anything to go by.

This is the problem. Most are replaceable but the last window and possibly the one before suggest we might not be capable of accurately replacing.  Just look how many have come in since promotion yet how many of that promotion side remain. I’d even argue that some of the promotion team who left haven’t been improved upon: certainly Ayling... is Magnússon any better than Derrick Williams? Pisano better than Little? Djuric than Wilbraham? Paterson better than Freeman? 

You could argue all that lot but it’s hard to think of many signings who have been genuine, significant  upgrades. 

We just need to be careful with what we wish for when it comes to recruitment....

[Ryan_BCFC]

1 hour ago, reddogkev said:

If you were in charge of the transfer business, who would you sell?  ** You're not allowed to say all of them!**

I'd start by moving on Magnússon, Hegeler, Engvall and Matty Taylor.  Would this be sufficient, or should we look to sell some more?

 

I would sell any of our current players if the price was right, they are all replaceable. 

 

Of course I'd rather keep some more than others (Bobby,Fammy,Pack,Smith,Flint) but you can't turn down a good deal which can be reinvested into the squad.

[Eddie Hitler]

The problem with selling a good player is that they are very hard to replace.  I would hope that the club wouldn't stand in the way of any big money moves to the Premiership for players as you don't want to have the reputation of blocking players' careers but I don't actually want any of the first team and usual reserves to be sold.  Though accept that they will be.

Older players who are nowhere near the first team now and will be even further away from it next season then yes: sale or release.

[Wolf Island]

2 hours ago, reddogkev said:

That's harsh, I don't think you can say they've let the club down - lost their form yes, lost their confidence yes, but let the club down?  I disagree.

Fair enough Kev, respect your opinion. I am despondent ahead of the last day of the season myself. Never thought we'd drop away this badly. We have a good times manager and good times players but as soon as their character was tested they disappeared. I want an overhaul starting with swapping LJ for Mick McCarthy.

[reddogkev]

4 minutes ago, Ser Davos Ciderworth said:

Fair enough Kev, respect your opinion. I am despondent ahead of the last day of the season myself. Never thought we'd drop away this badly. We have a good times manager and good times players but as soon as their character was tested they disappeared. I want an overhaul starting with swapping LJ for Mick McCarthy.

Agree, our collapse has been soul-destroying.  With Mick's phenomenal record at this level, he could be a bloody good manager for us - provided we backed him for a promotion push and didn't allow another Ipswich situation develop.  Really can't see LJ going anywhere though, unless relegation was on the cards.

[Nogbad the Bad]

1 hour ago, Mendip City said:

This is the problem. Most are replaceable but the last window and possibly the one before suggest we might not be capable of accurately replacing.  Just look how many have come in since promotion yet how many of that promotion side remain. I’d even argue that some of the promotion team who left haven’t been improved upon: certainly Ayling... is Magnússon any better than Derrick Williams? Pisano better than Little? Djuric than Wilbraham? Paterson better than Freeman? 

You could argue all that lot but it’s hard to think of many signings who have been genuine, significant  upgrades. 

 

Good ;post, some very interesting observations and comparisons there Mendip.

[Robbored]

20 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

Agree, our collapse has been soul-destroying.  With Mick's phenomenal record at this level, he could be a bloody good manager for us - provided we backed him for a promotion push and didn't allow another Ipswich situation develop.  Really can't see LJ going anywhere though, unless relegation was on the cards.

The Ipswich faithful desperately wanted rid of MM essentially because he played dull and uninspiring football........it was their pressure that led to him moving on and they were delighted when he departed Portman Rd.

And you're right LJ isn't going anywhere.

[Jack Dawe]

3 hours ago, GrahamC said:

I know this may seem obvious, but you can only sell someone if you have a buyer..

Taylor Moore, for instance, if LJ has decided he has no future here, I doubt we would get even a fifth back of what we paid at present, so do you accept that?

Hegeler falls into the same category, I know he was a low fee, but no way will his wages be.

Once you get beyond the very few who are out of contract, the more likely issue will be those we don’t want to sell but who attract big offers and who know they can treble their wages by going..

It's going to be a "difficult summer." Followed by a "difficult" autumn. Followed by....

[Mendip City]

Double post 

[Mendip City]

14 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Good ;post, some very interesting observations and comparisons there Mendip.

Thanks.... the more I think about it the more it goes on..... Matt Smith - at least as good and less injury prone than Djuric, JET / Tomlin.... and I’d happily swap on Agard (for his efforts alone) for Diony, Kent and Woodrow combined. 

 

Just shows how hard it is to get transfers right...... the summer before we got promoted was sensational... 

 

oh and another Wade Elliott v GON....

 

Interstingly the post has a transript if LJ’s press conference where in answer to him having the final say on signings he says “that’s a question for Mark Ashton”.   Weird? I assume he meant “no” but it’s hard to find anything other than cryptic or corporate nonsense said by club employees these days. 

[Robbored]

4 minutes ago, Mendip City said:

Interestingly the post has a transript if LJ’s press conference where in answer to him having the final say on signings he says “that’s a question for Mark Ashton”.   Weird? I assume he meant “no” but it’s hard to find anything other than cryptic or corporate nonsense said by club employees these days. 

LJ has an idea of the type of player he wants and if they become available then MA does all he can to secure that signing. That said there are numerous potential problems such as fee, wages and whether the agents demands are acceptable to MA's budget.

The 'final say' is not about the suitability of the player but whether MA is prepared/able  to pay the asking price. 

[Nogbad the Bad]

13 minutes ago, Robbored said:

LJ has an idea of the type of player he wants and if they become available then MA does all he can to secure that signing. That said there are numerous potential problems such as fee, wages and whether the agents demands are acceptable to MA's budget.

The 'final say' is not about the suitability of the player but whether MA is prepared/able  to pay the asking price. 

The 'final say' is made by LJ after MA has been through the pre prepared list and ascertained the players' suitability for City character wise and that we can match the wages and fee required.

It is after all that spadework by the scouts, MA, and the backroom analysts that LJ views and talks to the player personally before having the the decisive final say himself as to whether this player is one he wants in his squad, or not.

If he says no, that would be the end of it.

[Mendip City]

14 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

The 'final say' is made by LJ after MA has been through the pre prepared list and ascertained the players' suitability for City character wise and that we can match the wages and fee required.

It is after all that spadework by the scouts, MA, and the backroom analysts that LJ views and talks to the player personally before having the the decisive final say himself as to whether this player is one he wants in his squad, or not.

If he says no, that would be the end of it.

 

I’d hope that’s how it works but I was only quoting what Lee himself said. 

If what you’ve said is true then the answer to the question posed is “yes”.  Instead we get a few paragraphs that don’t make a lot of sense. 

Depending on how you read it, you could interprete frustration with the budget “....don’t need to speak about now...”. 

Like I say, hopefully you’re right and LJ was just overtalking/overthinking his answer.  

I’ve copied it below:

With the way recruitment is made, do you have the final say?

I think that’s a question for Mark Ashton really.

Obviously, he’s the CEO. But yes, I am the talent ID for the recruitment staff – there is no doubt in that. There are difficulties to that, of course there are, because almost every player we’ve signed wouldn’t be proven in the Championship.

That comes down to a number of things of which I don’t need to discuss now. So we try and do the best with what we can.

It’s like anything, if you’re buying your shopping in the house you’ll have a certain budget and you’ll buy the week’s food and keep it within that budget. We’re the same.

Of course, we learn from our mistakes and we continue to make good decisions and learn from the ones we’ve got right.

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

The Ipswich faithful desperately wanted rid of MM essentially because he played dull and uninspiring football........it was their pressure that led to him moving on and they were delighted when he departed Portman Rd.

And you're right LJ isn't going anywhere.

Let’s see how happy they are next year then when an undoubtedly inferior manager has to emulate him with about 57p to spend.

[Nogbad the Bad]

10 minutes ago, Mendip City said:

 

I’d hope that’s how it works but I was only quoting what Lee himself said. 

If what you’ve said is true then the answer to the question posed is “yes”.  Instead we get a few paragraphs that don’t make a lot of sense. 

Depending on how you read it, you could interprete frustration with the budget “....don’t need to speak about now...”. 

Like I say, hopefully you’re right and LJ was just overtalking/overthinking his answer.  

I’ve copied it below:

With the way recruitment is made, do you have the final say?

I think that’s a question for Mark Ashton really.

Obviously, he’s the CEO. But yes, I am the talent ID for the recruitment staff – there is no doubt in that. There are difficulties to that, of course there are, because almost every player we’ve signed wouldn’t be proven in the Championship.

That comes down to a number of things of which I don’t need to discuss now. So we try and do the best with what we can.

It’s like anything, if you’re buying your shopping in the house you’ll have a certain budget and you’ll buy the week’s food and keep it within that budget. We’re the same.

Of course, we learn from our mistakes and we continue to make good decisions and learn from the ones we’ve got right.

I'd interpret that as LJ saying he plays a big part identifying players - I think we knew that - but he doesn't necessarily end up with the signings he most wants because MA will rule some out when investigations start in earnest due to unknown factors when the list was compiled.

We might have 3 right backs on a list for example. Player A is then ruled out by excessive transfer fee, wage demands or agents fee, player B is found to have an unsatisfactory personal life, so we go for player C who is suitable for BCFC in every respect.

It might or might not be LJ's ideal option but it will still be a player he rates highly and wants because he will have had input to the list itself.

Even after all that if LJ meets the player and deems he will not suit his squad he can still veto any deal.

[Tully Bascomb]

2 hours ago, Ser Davos Ciderworth said:

Fair enough Kev, respect your opinion. I am despondent ahead of the last day of the season myself. Never thought we'd drop away this badly. We have a good times manager and good times players but as soon as their character was tested they disappeared. I want an overhaul starting with swapping LJ for Mick McCarthy.

But what has Mick McCarthy achieved and before you say wonders with no budget, what makes you think he could with a budget, Just because you're good with nothing, that could equal shit with something.

[BobBobSuperBob]

 

1 hour ago, Mendip City said:

Thanks.... the more I think about it the more it goes on..... Matt Smith - at least as good and less injury prone than Djuric, JET / Tomlin.... and I’d happily swap on Agard (for his efforts alone) for Diony, Kent and Woodrow combined. 

 

Just shows how hard it is to get transfers right...... the summer before we got promoted was sensational... 

 

oh and another Wade Elliott v GON....

 

Interstingly the post has a transript if LJ’s press conference where in answer to him having the final say on signings he says “that’s a question for Mark Ashton”.   Weird? I assume he meant “no” but it’s hard to find anything other than cryptic or corporate nonsense said by club employees these days. 

 

48 minutes ago, Mendip City said:

 

I’d hope that’s how it works but I was only quoting what Lee himself said. 

If what you’ve said is true then the answer to the question posed is “yes”.  Instead we get a few paragraphs that don’t make a lot of sense. 

Depending on how you read it, you could interprete frustration with the budget “....don’t need to speak about now...”. 

Like I say, hopefully you’re right and LJ was just overtalking/overthinking his answer.  

I’ve copied it below:

With the way recruitment is made, do you have the final say?

I think that’s a question for Mark Ashton really.

Obviously, he’s the CEO. But yes, I am the talent ID for the recruitment staff – there is no doubt in that. There are difficulties to that, of course there are, because almost every player we’ve signed wouldn’t be proven in the Championship.

That comes down to a number of things of which I don’t need to discuss now. So we try and do the best with what we can.

It’s like anything, if you’re buying your shopping in the house you’ll have a certain budget and you’ll buy the week’s food and keep it within that budget. We’re the same.

Of course, we learn from our mistakes and we continue to make good decisions and learn from the ones we’ve got right.

 

22 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

I'd interpret that as LJ saying he plays a big part identifying players - I think we knew that - but he doesn't necessarily end up with the signings he most wants because MA will rule some out when investigations start in earnest due to unknown factors when the list was compiled.

We might have 3 right backs on a list for example. Player A is then ruled out by excessive transfer fee, wage demands or agents fee, player B is found to have an unsatisfactory personal life, so we go for player C who is suitable for BCFC in every respect.

It might or might not be LJ's ideal option but it will still be a player he rates highly and wants because he will have had input to the list itself.

Even after all that if LJ meets the player and deems he will not suit his squad he can still veto any deal.

Interesting - Thanks @Mendip City

Unless somethings changed since the start of the season somebody is Diving for cover

Unless LJ is alluding to budget restricting him

This is a very accurate account of what was said by MA / LJ at the Q&A session at start of season 

https://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?/topic/188725-q-and-a-tonight/&page=7&tab=comments#comment-2989460

 

[Mendip City]

7 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

 

 

 

Interesting - Thanks @Mendip City

Unless somethings changed since the start of the season somebody is Diving for cover

Unless LJ is alluding to budget restricting him

This is a very accurate account of what was said by MA / LJ at the Q&A session at start of season 

https://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?/topic/188725-q-and-a-tonight/&page=7&tab=comments#comment-2989460

 

Yeah. That’s really how I’m reading it... something, however subtle has changed. LJ has previously given a straight yes in anser to that question.  

A few things he’s said recently seem, to me, less lined up with the project than they used to..... certainly the budget gets plenty of mentions these days. It would be interesting to see what happened if a team with parachute money came callling. Does he think he’s taken City as far as he can with the budget available? It’s hard to see how we can go much further without huge investment (that presumably wasn’t forthcoming in January). 

[BobBobSuperBob]

14 minutes ago, Mendip City said:

Yeah. That’s really how I’m reading it... something, however subtle has changed. LJ has previously given a straight yes in anser to that question.  

A few things he’s said recently seem, to me, less lined up with the project than they used to..... certainly the budget gets plenty of mentions these days. It would be interesting to see what happened if a team with parachute money came callling. Does he think he’s taken City as far as he can with the budget available? It’s hard to see how we can go much further without huge investment (that presumably wasn’t forthcoming in January). 

MA appears to have dissapeared into background again 

Wonder if @Davefevs was right when he suggested LJ may  have told that he needs to get money in before he considers more signings 

[JoeAman08]

In a Fifa 18 or FM world I would change to a 433 next season and assuming we can’t keep hold of Bryan and Reid the sales list would look like this

Reid(keep if can reach a new deal)

Bryan, Taylor, Hegeler and Engvall would be sold. GON and the loanees gone too. 

Would also entertain offers for others but probably wouldn’t receive the necessary money other than Flint. 

With the funds from a Bryan and Reid plus releasing the others and freeing up wages my team would look like this

New GK

Pisano Flint Baker Magnússon

             Smith

       Brownhill New CM

COD                           New LW

              Fam

Fielding, Kelly, Wright, Vyner, Pato, Walsh, Pack, Eliasson, Djuric and dare I say a top loan or two?

Reid and Bryan should net us 12-15m. I would use that plus initial budget to bring in top quality in the 3 positions mentioned. Positions like LB/RB can be upgraded if the funds are available but i would focus on these positions first. 

So that would give us a strong starting XI with a mix of experience and youth to get us through injuries. A small squad of 20 but more reliant on young players to plug the gaps during times of crisis. A couple loans to add to that group make it a squad of 22 first teamers. Keep some of the u23s half the year for big emergencies and loan the others until Jan. Then swap them for those who stayed first half. 

So that is what I would do on a game. We all know it isn’t that easy though. We can’t just transfer list Hegeler and start receiving offers for him. This doesn’t have to be a giant reshuffle as some fear. We are already adequately covered at LB(maybe even stronger?) if JB goes. Reid would be a loss on the pitch but an unexpected gain of cash. Flint I would keep but even if not replaced we have a World Cup participant in Wright or young player of the season from a strong L1 team in Vyner to step in. Though I am sure we have candidates in mind to replace the big man already if he were to leave. So just need to keep tweaking the squad and as that happens the youth gets stronger and we get better. 

 

[cidered abroad]

Don't want to create a new thread but my comments below are "the ones that I think may go this summer". 

Steele. Put O'Leary as number two. I would not be surprised if we bought a new number one and Fielding also went. 

Pisano. Too erratic. 

Baker. I'm guessing that he and LJ have fallen out. 

Bryan. May want to see if he can make it in the Premier. 

Bailey Wright. Has he been injured or left out by LJ? Or has he taken umbrage at some fans booing him and decided to go elsewhere? 

Magnússon. He's never appeared to be LJ's first choice and with Kelly and Vyner banging on the door, do we need him? 

Pack. Maybe looking for a new challenge. 

Reid. Like Joe Bryan may go to Premier. 

Paterson. Too inconsistent so may be moved on. 

Engvall. Do I need a reason? 

Hegeler. A quality footballer but doesn't seem to fit with LJ. I'd personally keep him and play him defensive midfield in a three or diamond. 

O'Neil. Not now good enough at top of Championship. 

Taylor. Not my type of top end championship striker but LJ seems to like his attitude. 

Eliasson. Does he have a future here? I like him but does LJ? I'm guessing that Opi Edwards may jump ahead of him. 

I can't think of many more who might be leaving. Some under 23's like Plavotic may. 

If the clear out is as extensive as my list, LJ and his coaching staff will have to work miracles to build a side/squad that will be good and consistent enough to challenge at top end.

We may have a clearer picture of the future from tomorrow's team and bench.