The one thing you'd like the club to do ?

[LondonBristolian]

2 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said:

To be honest I am not crystal clear how the two roles interact and I think that may be because they work differently everywhere.  I understand that when Kenny Dalglish was DoF at Blackburn his duties comprised playing golf and then turning up for matches and board meetings.

My (possibly incorrect) view of the roles was this:

I thought that the coach was just that: he was given a squad of players, a formation, and a tactical game to play and his job was to get them all playing to their best in that setting.  He would just deal with the team on the training pitch and in the dressing room.

The DoF would identify in what formation and with what tactics the current team would play best and then give that to the coach.  Meanwhile he would be repsonsible for identifying, with the help of a scouting network, and bringing in new players who would improve the team, those existing players we wanted to keep, and those we wished to sell.

Contracts and signings would be continued to be dealt with by the Chief Exec or whtever his title is i.e Mark Ashton.

 

That makes sense to me, so keep LJ as coach, MA handling the contracts and budgets side, and the DoF determining how we play and what players we need.

Though as I said previously I thought that that actually was the vision; we've just neglected to appoint a DoF.

I think it varies a bit from club to club but I think, where it works well, the key difference is the manager is looking at immediate results on the pitch and DoF is looking at the long-term prospects of the club. 

The Director of Football takes a look at what is happening across the club, identifies the philosophy and style of play that the club wants and ensures that, from youth level upwards, all players and staff brought into the club identify and suit that philosophy and style. The Dof identifies transfer targets.  

The manager looks after the first team and has the final say on coaching, tactics, formation and team selection. However he will have been identified and recruited by the DoF and would be expected to play a style of football that suits the philosophy running through the club.  The manager would identify areas of the team that needed improvement, would be able to suggest players and might make the final choice of players from a list that the DoF draws up but would not be allowed to make signings that did not fit in with the club's overall strategy. He might also suggest the players he wanted to keep or sell but the Director of Football would intervene if it was felt the decisions were not in the club's best interests. 

The DoF, or someone at board level, does the actual transfer negotiations etc.

The problem with bringing on an experienced manager as the DoF is threefold:

1. They may actually prefer to manage, as I mentioned in my initial post.

2. Really you want a Director of Football to be someone who will be at the club for the long-term and be responsible for ensuring stability over time. Many more experienced managers might not want to commit to a club for the length of time to significantly impact on the organisational culture in the way a DoF should.

3. The reasons why DoFs were brought in in the first place was the contradiction between the need to get immediate results and the need to build a club in the long-term and the fact that, however good a manager is, they are always going to prioritise short-term immediate gains over long-term ones because that's what keeps them in a job. You don't want a DoF who thinks like a manager, especially an older one who will not stick around at the club and may also only be motivated to produce short-term results. Many of Barcelona's DoFs are not people who have managerial experience at all but people who are interested in long-term strategy.

I actually think, whether we like what he is doing or not, what Mark Ashton does as the COO is not that far away from what a traditional continental DOF does, just under a different title (although his remit probably does beyond football, which may be a disadvantage and be a reason why you need someone to specialise in the role). When people suggest DoFs in England they often see it as a role that directly challenges and potentially undermines the manager but, if that happens, the roles are all wrong. Ultimately one thing I do think is, whatever structure we have, we need everyone involved to buy into that. I think, if you are bringing someone in to challenge a manager and take parts of his role off him, the best step is to sack the manager and replace him entirely with a new structure. But whatever the structure is, it has to be judged in the long-term. 

[Eddie Hitler]

I won't quote all of that @LondonBristolian but great post.

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I think it varies a bit from club to club but I think, where it works well, the key difference is the manager is looking at immediate results on the pitch and DoF is looking at the long-term prospects of the club. 

The Director of Football takes a look at what is happening across the club, identifies the philosophy and style of play that the club wants and ensures that, from youth level upwards, all players and staff brought into the club identify and suit that philosophy and style. The Dof identifies transfer targets.  

The manager looks after the first team and has the final say on coaching, tactics, formation and team selection. However he will have been identified and recruited by the DoF and would be expected to play a style of football that suits the philosophy running through the club.  The manager would identify areas of the team that needed improvement, would be able to suggest players and might make the final choice of players from a list that the DoF draws up but would not be allowed to make signings that did not fit in with the club's overall strategy. He might also suggest the players he wanted to keep or sell but the Director of Football would intervene if it was felt the decisions were not in the club's best interests. 

The DoF, or someone at board level, does the actual transfer negotiations etc.

The problem with bringing on an experienced manager as the DoF is threefold:

1. They may actually prefer to manage, as I mentioned in my initial post.

2. Really you want a Director of Football to be someone who will be at the club for the long-term and be responsible for ensuring stability over time. Many more experienced managers might not want to commit to a club for the length of time to significantly impact on the organisational culture in the way a DoF should.

3. The reasons why DoFs were brought in in the first place was the contradiction between the need to get immediate results and the need to build a club in the long-term and the fact that, however good a manager is, they are always going to prioritise short-term immediate gains over long-term ones because that's what keeps them in a job. You don't want a DoF who thinks like a manager, especially an older one who will not stick around at the club and may also only be motivated to produce short-term results. Many of Barcelona's DoFs are not people who have managerial experience at all but people who are interested in long-term strategy.

I actually think, whether we like what he is doing or not, what Mark Ashton does as the COO is not that far away from what a traditional continental DOF does, just under a different title (although his remit probably does beyond football, which may be a disadvantage and be a reason why you need someone to specialise in the role). When people suggest DoFs in England they often see it as a role that directly challenges and potentially undermines the manager but, if that happens, the roles are all wrong. Ultimately one thing I do think is, whatever structure we have, we need everyone involved to buy into that. I think, if you are bringing someone in to challenge a manager and take parts of his role off him, the best step is to sack the manager and replace him entirely with a new structure. But whatever the structure is, it has to be judged in the long-term. 

Could perhaps move MA to a much more clearly defined financial role and get in a football specialist- but as you say not necessarily an ex manager to liase with LJ more on the buying and selling of players.

Financial? That's where MA would come in, trying to get best value etc and have him stick mainly to that.

[Redmycolour]

2 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said:

Whisper it softly but I think that this man may be a good choice....

Yes please after what he's done at Cardiff, maybe a cxxt,wxxker,but yes,alot be better than LJ,but Lansdown won't pay wages,

[Gert Mare]

Bring back the Robin

[Cowshed]

Invest in a training facility for the academy and Community trust to bring Bristol City FC and regional grass roots football closer together. Provide via this facility a West Country wide coaching structure and culture that is facilitated by the Community trust, with the aim of providing a regional pathway into Bristol City's academy and onwards to the first team for the elite. Provide technical skills coaching in places like Bath, Melksham/Trowbridge, Taunton etc creating that region wide structure via regional coaches (lots of clubs do this) involving schools with this facility in Bristol at its peak to provide support.

Employ (again) people like Amy Kington who have the drive and vision to a make aspects of this mini sporting Barcelona a reality and ditch Bristol Sport who have not.

 

[beaverface]

I'd like us to start the ball rolling on buying up houses behind the Atyeo with the intention of building one HUGE single tiered, steep home end.

This isn't going to happen overnight, so the sooner they get going, the better.

[Gert Mare]

12 minutes ago, Badger08 said:

@Cheesleysmate Mate, any chance you can change your signature picture? Its ridiculously massive!  

Is it? :laugh:! I only ever log in on my mobile so I can’t even remember what is on there? A horse puncher and slogan from Gas Mike if I remember?

I’ll dust of my Windows 95 desktop and log in to change it.

[Mendip City]

First and foremost: Become a football club  focused on first team success... less on wider elements/distractions/business success..... all of which will naturally follow first team success. 

[Gazred]

23 minutes ago, Cheesleysmate said:

Is it? :laugh:! I only ever log in on my mobile so I can’t even remember what is on there? A horse puncher and slogan from Gas Mike if I remember?

I’ll dust of my Windows 95 desktop and log in to change it.

Funny enough my lad was watching the episode that capture comes from the other day and the first thing i thought of was your huge sig!

[Gert Mare]

5 minutes ago, Gazred said:

Funny enough my lad was watching the episode that capture comes from the other day and the first thing i thought of was your huge sig!

It’s going.....today......by popular demand 

[Phileas Fogg]

1 minute ago, Badger08 said:

 I feel bad now! What is it from? 

Too much bullying about avatars and signatures for my liking.. I had a harmless picture of the legendary Mark Ashton which I was press ganged into changing!

[Gert Mare]

11 minutes ago, Badger08 said:

 I feel bad now! What is it from? 

Don’t feel bad. I forgot all about the signature thing. I have no idea where it is from. I think I was riding the crest of the Gas Conference Relegation wave at the time and was desperately looking for a picture of someone punching a horse. It was the most animated I could find at the time. 

I have much smaller and better photos to use these days. Time for a freshen up.

[Sixtyseconds]

1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

Invest in a training facility for the academy and Community trust to bring Bristol City FC and regional grass roots football closer together. Provide via this facility a West Country wide coaching structure and culture that is facilitated by the Community trust, with the aim of providing a regional pathway into Bristol City's academy and onwards to the first team for the elite. Provide technical skills coaching in places like Bath, Melksham/Trowbridge, Taunton etc creating that region wide structure via regional coaches (lots of clubs do this) involving schools with this facility in Bristol at its peak to provide support.

Employ (again) people like Amy Kington who have the drive and vision to a make aspects of this mini sporting Barcelona a reality and ditch Bristol Sport who have not.

 

Fine folk came from Wiltshire.

John Atyeo.

Biff Newman.

The Pride of the West in Bristol City kit. 

West Wiltshire is now Southampton's manor.

 

 

 

 

[BS4 on Tour...]

5 hours ago, reddogkev said:

Who would you bring in as the old head?  If SL offered enough money and incentives, Moyes?

Joe Jordan for me

[brad blit]

Get Bobby Reid to sign new contact and persuade him to stay. 

[42nite]

 

Get rid of our soft underbelly!

And sort that tannoy out!

 

[DaveInSA]

I'm gonna be greedy:-)

Either

DoF - one with a high profile and proven success at winning stuff at the highest level in the past five years. I think Arsene Wenger needs a job.

or

Sack Johnson and pull in that fella from Brentford.

or 

Sack Johnson and pull in Liam Rosenior - I like him a lot (not in that way)

 

[CotswoldRed]

Gain a reputation as a club that listens and involves its fans in its decision making. Not all decisions, but the ones that we should have an open and honest dialogue on. Communicate what actions will take place and when, instead of telling us "it will be discussed at a future meeting".

Encompassed within should be a direct and honest approach. So much bull**** eminates from the club which takes us for fools (the ticket price U-turn for example). 

I'm already over my "one thing" but I'd also like Matt's position to be funded by the club with the fans able to appoint whoever they wish. Independent of the club. 

 

[Ska Junkie]

IF we went down a DoF model, surely SL would get his old mate GJ back wouldn't he? He could work with LJ easily enough and knows SL / the club.

How he would react to the shiny suited Knight rider is a different matter though. 

[bcfcredandwhite]

What would I change?

the constant moaning 

its in our culture though. Won’t change. 

[Davefevs]

My one request.

Stop paying lip service to the customers, sorry, I mean fans, on issues that directly affect them.  Consult with the fans, get the fans to understand the other side of the coin.  Work together.

Just found out my Disabled Parking space has gone up from £150 to £240 - 60% increase.  It does have a 3 year discount, so 15% off this year, making it £204....making a 36% increase.

But if they increase the £240 next year, that’ll negate year 2’s 10% discount.

Anyone else had a call today re their space?

[CotswoldRed]

31 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

My one request.

Stop paying lip service to the customers, sorry, I mean fans, on issues that directly affect them.  Consult with the fans, get the fans to understand the other side of the coin.  Work together.

Just found out my Disabled Parking space has gone up from £150 to £240 - 60% increase.  It does have a 3 year discount, so 15% off this year, making it £204....making a 36% increase.

But if they increase the £240 next year, that’ll negate year 2’s 10% discount.

Anyone else had a call today re their space?

That's not good news Dave.  The club are full of ignorant s***s. 

Don't have a disabled space for the nipper myself. Don't suppose I ever will. 

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, CotswoldRed said:

That's not good news Dave.  The club are full of ignorant s***s. 

Don't have a disabled space for the nipper myself. Don't suppose I ever will. 

Where do you park?  Do you need rear access?

[CotswoldRed]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Where do you park?  Do you need rear access?

Hi Dave. I tend to park near Luckwell School. 

I need rear access so we opt to arrive early (best chance of suitable space) and make a day of it. 

Normally get blocked in by city fans (despite huge sticker requesting access) so sometimes block the road to get nipper in. 

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, CotswoldRed said:

Hi Dave. I tend to park near Luckwell School. 

I need rear access so we opt to arrive early (best chance of suitable space) and make a day of it. 

Normally get blocked in by city fans (despite huge sticker requesting access) so sometimes block the road to get nipper in. 

Beginning to feel a bit pissed off with the price hikes.  Wickes Car Park (where we used to park) is cheaper £190 (£160ish with discount).

[spudski]

59 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

My one request.

Stop paying lip service to the customers, sorry, I mean fans, on issues that directly affect them.  Consult with the fans, get the fans to understand the other side of the coin.  Work together.

Just found out my Disabled Parking space has gone up from £150 to £240 - 60% increase.  It does have a 3 year discount, so 15% off this year, making it £204....making a 36% increase.

But if they increase the £240 next year, that’ll negate year 2’s 10% discount.

Anyone else had a call today re their space?

They charge you for disabled parking??? WTF!!! seriously? I can't get my head around that...

At what point in anyone's head do they think..'I know we'll charge the disabled to park'.

That imo...is just ridiculous in the big picture of things.

How many private car parks charge for disabled parking?

I'm really at a loss as to what to think.

Tbh...I think I'm going to be playing a lot more golf on Saturdays next season. I'm seriously losing the love...

[Simon79]

I would like the club to build a sensory room for fans who struggle with the match day experience in that regard, so they can watch the game in comfort. I have brought this up before & did have some communication from the club as the possibility of it happening, but after being told they would be in contact, they never were! As a dad of a young boy with sensory needs, I think this would be a great initiative. Although I’ve been lucky, as Elliott has gone from strength to strength during his match day experiences & would now not need this resource. I’m sure other families are not so lucky. COYR 

[CHIPLEY RED]

Make a couple of signings this summer that excite me.

[Davefevs]

16 minutes ago, spudski said:

They charge you for disabled parking??? WTF!!! seriously? I can't get my head around that...

At what point in anyone's head do they think..'I know we'll charge the disabled to park'.

That imo...is just ridiculous in the big picture of things.

How many private car parks charge for disabled parking?

I'm really at a loss as to what to think.

Tbh...I think I'm going to be playing a lot more golf on Saturdays next season. I'm seriously losing the love...

Yep....most private car parks charge you, even with blue badge.  Council car parks we are normally exempt.  In Cornwall you get a permit for £10 per year to park in Council Car Parks for free.

£204 probably works out more than £10 per game (never make 20+....part-timer eh?)....and starting to be less cost effective, especially when as an early-bird, I could park in other places.  On dry days, just park further out I reckon.