Ashton gate halt and the Portishead rail line (Merged)

[Midlands Robin]

There's been a big change in rail use. Industry figures show that rail journeys are back to pre-covid levels but leasure and weekend travel is much higher while peak, working week travel is down. 

So the amount of revenue being made per journey still remains below pre-covid levels. 

I guess any new business case would attempt to evaluate the line usage. The problem with that is that there will almost certainly be a new pricing model being introduced in the next few years but no one knows what that will be yet. 

Any business case at the moment is likely to be little more than a wet finger in the air. 

[pillred]

6 hours ago, Bas's perfect hattrick said:

There's literally billions to spunk on buying land for HS2 and then changing their minds and flogging it off again, but they can't find a few million for a hugely popular local line....

It's well over £200 million now, nothing compared to HS2 I grant you but in these belt-tightening times we live in and remote working now a thing maybe they have decided the demand is no longer there and there are better things to spend the money on.  

Edited October 17, 2023 by pillred

[Bas's perfect hattrick]

5 hours ago, pillred said:

It's well over £200 million now, nothing compared to HS2 I grant you but in these belt-tightening times we live in and remote working now a thing maybe they have decided the demand is no longer there and there are better things to spend the money on.  

Fair comment but is the demand really not there. I always remember the road out of Portishead to the motorway being a nightmare a lot of the time. 

Part of the reason the cost is so inflated is the constant cycle of planning to build it, changing their minds, and then changing them again. 

Let's also not forget, the PM just announced more money for local transport in the wake of HS2 cancellation. 

[TV Tom]

Is the hopeless MP for North Somerset making any noises ? He ought to grease a few palms, he has history of dodgy dealings

[Port Said Red]

49 minutes ago, TV Tom said:

Is the hopeless MP for North Somerset making any noises ? He ought to grease a few palms, he has history of dodgy dealings

You would think he would want more room on the road so he can drive around in his Lexus with the personalised number plate, wouldn't you?

[BrizzleRed]

14 hours ago, Bas's perfect hattrick said:

There's literally billions to spunk on buying land for HS2 and then changing their minds and flogging it off again, but they can't find a few million for a hugely popular local line....

I’d love to drag that whinger Andy Burnham down from Manchester and show him what we’ve got to deal with.  

According to many oop north, we’ve all got it made down south, just because we’re at the same end of the country as London!!!

[TV Tom]

12 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

I’d love to drag that whinger Andy Burnham down from Manchester and show him what we’ve got to deal with.  

According to many oop north, we’ve all got it made down south, just because we’re at the same end of the country as London!!!

There are parts of Essex & Kent that are truly awful and Cornwall up till recently was the poorest region in the whole of Northern Europe, it's probably even worst now that they don't receive economic aid from the EU since Brexit 

[Port Said Red]

34 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

I’d love to drag that whinger Andy Burnham down from Manchester and show him what we’ve got to deal with.  

According to many oop north, we’ve all got it made down south, just because we’re at the same end of the country as London!!!

I was in Manchester this time last year and there were 3 free buses that ran from within a few metres of our hotel next to the AO Arena. Two went around town along slightly different routes, the third went all the way out to Salford Quays. 

You do have to wonder why Manchester can do this when other cities can't.

[BrizzleRed]

2 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

I was in Manchester this time last year and there were 3 free buses that ran from within a few metres of our hotel next to the AO Arena. Two went around town along slightly different routes, the third went all the way out to Salford Quays. 

You do have to wonder why Manchester can do this when other cities can't.

Completely agree PSE and it goes beyond all this so-called ‘Northern Powerhouse’ money being thrown at them in recent years.  

I remember going to Manchester years ago and finding easy, cheap parking behind Manchester Piccadilly train station.  I then went through the station and couldn’t believe it when I saw all these free buses lined up in front of the station, with routes that fanned out over the whole city!

It really boils my p**s when you hear Burnham and his ilk banging on about they want equality with ‘them down south’, when what they really want is the same us London!

In Bristol, we’re back in the dark ages compared with Manchester and many other northern cities, let alone London!!!

[TV Tom]

11 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

Completely agree PSE and it goes beyond all this so-called ‘Northern Powerhouse’ money being thrown at them in recent years.  

I remember going to Manchester years ago and finding easy, cheap parking behind Manchester Piccadilly train station.  I then went through the station and couldn’t believe it when I saw all these free buses lined up in front of the station, with routes that fanned out over the whole city!

It really boils my p**s when you hear Burnham and his ilk banging on about they want equality with ‘them down south’, when what they really want is the same us London!

In Bristol, we’re back in the dark ages compared with Manchester and many other northern cities, let alone London!!!

All Burnham is doing is trying to get the best for the people he represents which is the complete opposite to what our Mayor does

[BrizzleRed]

2 hours ago, TV Tom said:

There are parts of Essex & Kent that are truly awful and Cornwall up till recently was the poorest region in the whole of Northern Europe, it's probably even worst now that they don't receive economic aid from the EU since Brexit 

I wouldn’t necessarily blame brexit tbh.  London seems like a sponge that sucks up the vast majority of the money in the south and things generally seem to only get built if they directly benefit London.

The cynic in me suggests HS2 was only created to draw more people into London from the north, rather than benefit the north directly.  Maybe London is now happy to settle for Brum being in the commuter belt!

[TV Tom]

3 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

I wouldn’t necessarily blame brexit tbh.  London seems like a sponge that sucks up the vast majority of the money in the south and things generally seem to only get built if they directly benefit London.

The cynic in me suggests HS2 was only created to draw more people into London from the north, rather than benefit the north directly.  Maybe London is now happy to settle for Brum being in the commuter belt!

I doubt very much if the poorest towns in Cornwall are getting the money from our government that they were getting from the EU which the likes of Johnson promised so in this instance you certainly can blame Brexit

[BrizzleRed]

1 minute ago, TV Tom said:

All Burnham is doing is trying to get the best for the people he represents which is the complete opposite to what our Mayor does

Can’t argue with that mate.  I’m sure the Mancs love Burnham, while marvellous Marve is an object of ridicule in Bristol.

I still can’t work out what it is with Bristol. A beautiful city with so much potential, but with an unerring ability to **** up every opportunity to improve itself.  

Bristol voted for a Mayor to overcome the continuously ‘hung’ council, which could never make important decisions.  They then get lumbered with two useless twonks in ‘red trousers’ and ‘marvellous Marve’.  Talk about jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire!

[winsaw]

3 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

I was in Manchester this time last year and there were 3 free buses that ran from within a few metres of our hotel next to the AO Arena. Two went around town along slightly different routes, the third went all the way out to Salford Quays. 

You do have to wonder why Manchester can do this when other cities can't.

Manchester has a city tax on anyone staying in a hotel as is common in most city's in Europe they use the money to pay for things like the free bus, I believe Manchester is the only UK city doing this tax at the moment, 

[TV Tom]

38 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

Can’t argue with that mate.  I’m sure the Mancs love Burnham, while marvellous Marve is an object of ridicule in Bristol.

I still can’t work out what it is with Bristol. A beautiful city with so much potential, but with an unerring ability to **** up every opportunity to improve itself.  

Bristol voted for a Mayor to overcome the continuously ‘hung’ council, which could never make important decisions.  They then get lumbered with two useless twonks in ‘red trousers’ and ‘marvellous Marve’.  Talk about jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire!

I voted not to have a mayor as i always thought that one man with so much power is dangerous while my brother was all for it, i've never let him forget it !!!

[phantom]

Anyway back on topic . . . . 

[winsaw]

13 hours ago, Midlands Robin said:

There's been a big change in rail use. Industry figures show that rail journeys are back to pre-covid levels but leasure and weekend travel is much higher while peak, working week travel is down. 

So the amount of revenue being made per journey still remains below pre-covid levels. 

I guess any new business case would attempt to evaluate the line usage. The problem with that is that there will almost certainly be a new pricing model being introduced in the next few years but no one knows what that will be yet. 

Any business case at the moment is likely to be little more than a wet finger in the air. 

Totally agree about these very expensive business cases being little more than people guessing, 

Here in a perfect example of how wrong these business cases can be,

The new worcestershire parkway station as just celebrated 544270 passinger's using it in the last 12 months  marking it a huge success,

But it nearly didn't get built as the business cases study predicted much lower numbers using it, in fact they thought it would take 15 years of people using it to build up to 383000 passinger's a year ,

The current usage is 40% higher after only being open 3 years,

It really dose make me think they always put out lower numbers in these reports, and I wonder if a Ashton gate station would be build if it would get much higher usage rate than the very low number forcast in the last business cases, 

[frenchred]

8 minutes ago, TV Tom said:

I voted not to have a mayor as i always thought that one man with so much power is dangerous while my brother was all for it, i've never let him forget it !!!

It doesn't make you correct though.

The office of mayor is generally a good thing, unfortunately it's been ruined in Bristol by the two useless ***** that have been in position

[TV Tom]

17 minutes ago, frenchred said:

It doesn't make you correct though.

The office of mayor is generally a good thing, unfortunately it's been ruined in Bristol by the two useless ***** that have been in position

I'm not saying it makes me correct it's just my opinion, Andy Burnham is an excellent mayor but i'm afraid Bristol being Bristol is doomed to fail either way

[BrizzleRed]

12 minutes ago, winsaw said:

Totally agree about these very expensive business cases being little more than people guessing, 

Here in a perfect example of how wrong these business cases can be,

The new worcestershire parkway station as just celebrated 544270 passinger's using it in the last 12 months  marking it a huge success,

But it nearly didn't get built as the business cases study predicted much lower numbers using it, in fact they thought it would take 15 years of people using it to build up to 383000 passinger's a year ,

The current usage is 40% higher after only being open 3 years,

It really dose make me think they always put out lower numbers in these reports, and I wonder if a Ashton gate station would be build if it would get much higher usage rate than the very low number forcast in the last business cases, 

Spot on.

If authorities are serious about getting people out of their cars, commuters need to have viable alternatives available.  You could be forgiven for thinking there are decision makers who are desperately looking for reasons why not to reopen the line.  With all these delays, the costs just keep racking up.

You only have to look at the Severn Beach line to see the benefits of local trains.  It had the axe hanging over it for years, but now it’s a really well used and valuable service and the Portishead line surely has far more potential for growth than Severn Beach.

Rather than impossible dreams about undergrounds, why don’t they just get on with something thst’s realatively easily achieved.  Christ, most of the track is already there and just needs upgrading ffs

[archie andrews]

If this was japan or germany we wouldn't be having this conversation.... It would be built already.. 

[Lanterne Rouge]

1 hour ago, winsaw said:

Totally agree about these very expensive business cases being little more than people guessing, 

Here in a perfect example of how wrong these business cases can be,

The new worcestershire parkway station as just celebrated 544270 passinger's using it in the last 12 months  marking it a huge success,

But it nearly didn't get built as the business cases study predicted much lower numbers using it, in fact they thought it would take 15 years of people using it to build up to 383000 passinger's a year ,

The current usage is 40% higher after only being open 3 years,

It really dose make me think they always put out lower numbers in these reports, and I wonder if a Ashton gate station would be build if it would get much higher usage rate than the very low number forcast in the last business cases, 

 

1 hour ago, BrizzleRed said:

Spot on.

If authorities are serious about getting people out of their cars, commuters need to have viable alternatives available.  You could be forgiven for thinking there are decision makers who are desperately looking for reasons why not to reopen the line.  With all these delays, the costs just keep racking up.

You only have to look at the Severn Beach line to see the benefits of local trains.  It had the axe hanging over it for years, but now it’s a really well used and valuable service and the Portishead line surely has far more potential for growth than Severn Beach.

Rather than impossible dreams about undergrounds, why don’t they just get on with something thst’s realatively easily achieved.  Christ, most of the track is already there and just needs upgrading ffs

A case in point local to me is the reopening of the Okehampton to Exeter passenger service a couple of years ago - the passengers using it are (I think) 200%+ of what was forecast and you can`t get a seat at peak times. With the traffic into Exeter from the A30 and the eye-watering cost of parking in the city (I paid £2.80 for an hour around a mile from the centre last week) it`s a no-brainer if you live in Okey and work in Exeter and don`t need a car while you`re there. They are now reopening the Tavistock to Plymouth line too as a result of this one`s success.

Build it and they will come.

[BrizzleRed]

1 hour ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

 

A case in point local to me is the reopening of the Okehampton to Exeter passenger service a couple of years ago - the passengers using it are (I think) 200%+ of what was forecast and you can`t get a seat at peak times. With the traffic into Exeter from the A30 and the eye-watering cost of parking in the city (I paid £2.80 for an hour around a mile from the centre last week) it`s a no-brainer if you live in Okey and work in Exeter and don`t need a car while you`re there. They are now reopening the Tavistock to Plymouth line too as a result of this one`s success.

Build it and they will come.

Sounds another perfect example of build it and they will come LR.

A real shame they don’t adopt that in Bristol too.  They’ve obviously chosen a modified carrot and the stick principle here in Bristol,  where they’ve taken away the carrot (if it was ever actually there) and resorted to whacking us with an ever bigger stick!

[pillred]

10 hours ago, Bas's perfect hattrick said:

Fair comment but is the demand really not there. I always remember the road out of Portishead to the motorway being a nightmare a lot of the time. 

Part of the reason the cost is so inflated is the constant cycle of planning to build it, changing their minds, and then changing them again. 

Let's also not forget, the PM just announced more money for local transport in the wake of HS2 cancellation. 

I wouldn't hold your breath on that one, they are talking about that money being available from 2029 onwards if I read it correctly, and I imagine most if not all of that will be spent in the North of England as some sort of guilt money after cancelling the Northern leg, but yes if they had got on with it when it was first proposed I think the estimated cost was £39 million, but as we know with infrastructure projects in the South West they either take years or don't happen at all.

Edited October 17, 2023 by pillred

[Never to the dark side]

No trains for the home games against Watford on 20 january and Leeds on 3rd february at Parson Street

[italian dave]

No trains on the Portishead line for 60 years!

[robin_unreliant]

On 17/10/2023 at 14:48, Lanterne Rouge said:

 

A case in point local to me is the reopening of the Okehampton to Exeter passenger service a couple of years ago - the passengers using it are (I think) 200%+ of what was forecast and you can`t get a seat at peak times. With the traffic into Exeter from the A30 and the eye-watering cost of parking in the city (I paid £2.80 for an hour around a mile from the centre last week) it`s a no-brainer if you live in Okey and work in Exeter and don`t need a car while you`re there. 

The car parks in Exeter now have a two hour minimum stay at £3.50. For me to go in from Cullompton it is only £2 each way on a bus but it takes fifty minutes to get there. They are planning to reopen the train station here in a couple of years but these things always take soooo long. They were talking about it when I moved here ten years ago!

[W-S-M Seagull]

On 17/10/2023 at 12:49, frenchred said:

It doesn't make you correct though.

The office of mayor is generally a good thing, unfortunately it's been ruined in Bristol by the two useless ***** that have been in position

It's a good thing if the mayor is from the same party that is in government. 

[Lanterne Rouge]

1 minute ago, robin_unreliant said:

The car parks in Exeter now have a two hour minimum stay at £3.50. For me to go in from Cullompton it is only £2 each way on a bus but it takes fifty minutes to get there. They are planning to reopen the train station here in a couple of years but these things always take soooo long. They were talking about it when I moved here ten years ago!

I know, the cost of parking in Exeter (even well away from the city) is eye watering. I think Cullompton station (and Wellington too) will finally reopen in the near future given all the noise around it now and based on the success of Okehampton. Watch those two towns explode into life when they do.

A classic case of `build it and they will come`.

[W-S-M Seagull]

5 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

The car parks in Exeter now have a two hour minimum stay at £3.50. For me to go in from Cullompton it is only £2 each way on a bus but it takes fifty minutes to get there. They are planning to reopen the train station here in a couple of years but these things always take soooo long. They were talking about it when I moved here ten years ago!

Here in Weston car parking charges are ridiculous, obviously because of the tourists. But as a local that makes it difficult to enjoy the town. 

Busses being 2 quid is great value but for me whilst I live right on a bus route, it still takes about 40 mins to get to the town centre for what is pretty much a 5 minute car journey. The busses don't use direct routes. They go all through the estates etc. 

So what I tend to do is plan any town centre journeys around needing to go to Tescos as if spend X amount you get a few hours free parking. 

I'd really like to use the bus more but it's just not convenient despite it being very affordable.