Style of play...

[YorkshireSection]

1 minute ago, Monkeh said:

I'd rather we get some one in who's already up to standard then another one for the future type player myself, it depends on where the lad wants to go and what cheltenham want for him

I actually think he'd slot in straightaway, he'd definitely benefit from playing with better players, especially with his instinctive goal scoring.

[Monkeh]

1 minute ago, YorkshireSection said:

I actually think he'd slot in straightaway, he'd definitely benefit from playing with better players, especially with his instinctive goal scoring.

problem is, if he doen't hit the ground running then he will get loads of abuse from our crowd it happens all too often,

[YorkshireSection]

2 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

problem is, if he doen't hit the ground running then he will get loads of abuse from our crowd it happens all too often,

I see him more of an impact sub, maybe to start in cup competitions, a player that will develop quickly, which is something he's shown with the jump to league football.

[steviestevieneville]

51 minutes ago, Trueredsupporte said:

Maybe not 4-3-3 but having more players up the pitch trying to get it to stick more. Athletic tall and stronger in the final third. .

Don’t see this at all with the players we’ve signed . Complete opposite in fact imo 

[Monkeh]

24 minutes ago, YorkshireSection said:

I see him more of an impact sub, maybe to start in cup competitions, a player that will develop quickly, which is something he's shown with the jump to league football.

fair enough then

[spudski]

1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

A certain John Terry was a fine passer of the ball. He regularly hit pace and athleticism.  

 

How does your GK and another play?

I wouldn't see the wide players being wingers either. More tucked in. Replace Patterson with something more athletic and it could be a team passing less and looking for transitions.

I've got a gut feeling we may keep Pisano at RB, and utilise Smith, Wright if needed in that position and even Taylor Moore.

As for the Keeper...I know where you're going with this...however, I can't see us having a GK that plays out from the back like a Sweeper used to do.

I just don't think we or many other teams in the Championship have the technical ability to play out from the back through the GK like some do in the Prem and abroad. You just don't get the time.

Even a technically great team like Belgium struggled when pressed and given little time by Japan.

 

[Cowshed]

45 minutes ago, spudski said:

I've got a gut feeling we may keep Pisano at RB, and utilise Smith, Wright if needed in that position and even Taylor Moore.

As for the Keeper...I know where you're going with this...however, I can't see us having a GK that plays out from the back like a Sweeper used to do.

I just don't think we or many other teams in the Championship have the technical ability to play out from the back through the GK like some do in the Prem and abroad. You just don't get the time.

Even a technically great team like Belgium struggled when pressed and given little time by Japan.

 

Realistic improvement - RB/GK. Stay with personnel at the back and lose Bryan. Is that realistically going to develop the style of pacier passing and combinations? 

 

 

 

[spudski]

39 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Realistic improvement - RB/GK. Stay with personnel at the back and lose Bryan. Is that realistically going to develop the style of pacier passing and combinations? 

 

 

 

I think with Kelly and an on form/fit Pisano, I do think we have the ability with who we've added to the squad to play like we did at the beginning of last season. The added pace in depth will help. With Famara and Duric and Taylor, we have the options to mix it up a bit when needed. Finding a happy medium with the likes of Duric or Famara in the team will help long term over a season imo. I just hope we don't get a plethora of long term injuries again.

[LondonBristolian]

4 hours ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Style i'm not so sure about but one thing is for sure IMO, if we do not solve our vulnerability in central midfield then I expect yet a season of another long seemingly never ending losing streak at some time or another.

For me central midfield is the most important issue and I have a feeling that yet again under LJ it is something that is going to be ignored, I hope i'm wrong but I have not seen us linked with any central midfielders and I believe that to be a worry.

I think this is the fourth consecutive season where I've gone into early July thinking we're a Goalkeeper, right back and central midfielder away from a balanced and strong squad. If those three players arrive then I think we'll be fine but I thought that last year and the year before and the year before that and it didn't seem to happen. Absolutely agree central midfield is the key. 

[Davefevs]

4 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

It's not about having a style of play rather the personnel to play to whatever style the situation demands, often dictated by who the opposition is and how they are playing.

Our problem under the past several managers has been inflexibility. Their preferred style is terrific when it works else it goes basketcase, there's little inbetween. There's also a problem with stubbornness, the reluctance to change one's oft touted style and tactics when clearly they're demonstrated not to be  working. WeeLee tends to revert to 'throw everybody upfront but still punt it at the little un' or 'overload/abandon midfield'. He's not helped by us lacking an authoritative playmaker in the middle of the park who can actively orchestrate the changes, then again it's him who constructs the squad.

Well said.

4 hours ago, YorkshireSection said:

I think you may have hit the nail on the head, that's why I'd like us to go for Eisa, he has those attributes to settle in very well.

You Eisa’s mum / Agent / Family relative / Eisa himself * delete as applicable 

[JoeAman08]

4 hours ago, YorkshireSection said:

I think you may have hit the nail on the head, that's why I'd like us to go for Eisa, he has those attributes to settle in very well.

 

4 hours ago, Monkeh said:

I'd rather we get some one in who's already up to standard then another one for the future type player myself, it depends on where the lad wants to go and what cheltenham want for him

What you also have to consider is the pathway. Signing Eisa I would be all for but what does that mean for Semenyo, McCoulskey and Hinds? That is up to the club to decide who has the higher potential and all that. 

[Phileas Fogg]

6 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

 

What you also have to consider is the pathway. Signing Eisa I would be all for but what does that mean for Semenyo, McCoulskey and Hinds? That is up to the club to decide who has the higher potential and all that. 

And it's up to them to be good enough for the first team.

Eisa is a bit older than those three, maybe those three just aren't ready. We can't play young players just for the sake of it.. they have to be good enough first.

[JoeAman08]

44 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

And it's up to them to be good enough for the first team.

Eisa is a bit older than those three, maybe those three just aren't ready. We can't play young players just for the sake of it.. they have to be good enough first.

Wasn’t implying they get first team but if he wasn’t for the first team this season than would it be better to save the money and watch them progress? 

[Phileas Fogg]

11 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Wasn’t implying they get first team but if he wasn’t for the first team this season than would it be better to save the money and watch them progress? 

Not if we can upgrade. The club may feel none of those three will ever make it.

I'm all for young players breaking in, but if they club progresses faster than they do there's not much we can do about it. The pathway is a good idea, but only if the young players are good enough and not just for the sake of it.

[INCRED]

6 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Agreed - Watkins and Adelukan are also pretty powerful players. Adelukan has the frame to really fill out and be a very powerful player. These guys aren't your stereotypical lightweight wide players.

Weimann, whilst not being as physically powerful, has a great engine - much like Reid.

Totally agree and both Watkins and Adelukan are by no means midgets and physically will compete overpower opposition full backs and Weimar is one of those players who doesn’t stop chasing down defenders. I like the idea of Fam & Djuric as focal points of the frontline as both can be hit from back to front and win the ball aerially or take down but probably Djuric touch better but not as powerful as Fam 

i can see where LJ is going with his squad and type of players he is targeting, obvious the press is crucial to our style but needs to be sustained and if we don’t win the ball high up the pitch then we have players capable of beating players and passing through teams.

I would like to see a midfielder who can dictate the pace of the game and control the game but I dare say they come at a premium but certainly looks like we could be in for some exciting games as long as we don’t get too many 3-3 or 5-5 games 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Not if we can upgrade. The club may feel none of those three will ever make it.

“Make it” is subjective.  I guess priority one is to try and get them to the level the club are at (champ).  But if they aren’t good enough, I guess p2 is to try and help them forge a pro career....I think the club has some responsibility here.  You can’t just have the elite in Tye academy or else they wouldn’t have anyone to play with!!  Those with pro-career potential may have some market value, even at 22,23 years of age if they’ve shown promise on loan for example)

I'm all for young players breaking in, but if they club progresses faster than they do there's not much we can do about it. The pathway is a good idea, but only if the young players are good enough and not just for the sake of it.

It is a dilemma.  I think Bobby was one player who suffered from City developing quicker than him, but luckily we stuck by himand he caught up.

Just playing a bit of devil’s advocate above and also think City have an employer responsibility to not just look after the few best players.  I think it’s where Tinnion has found himself a role, one which he appears to love.

[Fiale]

Hoping we go for 4-3-3 we have a couple of players in Kelly and Webster who ca play the ball from the back, and with Pack / Brownhill / O'Dowda in midfield all with energy, able to tackle and a eye for getting forward. We then have Paterson, and our new signings backing up Famara. 

[cidered abroad]

57 minutes ago, INCRED said:

Totally agree and both Watkins and Adelukan are by no means midgets and physically will compete overpower opposition full backs and Weimar is one of those players who doesn’t stop chasing down defenders. I like the idea of Fam & Djuric as focal points of the frontline as both can be hit from back to front and win the ball aerially or take down but probably Djuric touch better but not as powerful as Fam 

i can see where LJ is going with his squad and type of players he is targeting, obvious the press is crucial to our style but needs to be sustained and if we don’t win the ball high up the pitch then we have players capable of beating players and passing through teams.

I would like to see a midfielder who can dictate the pace of the game and control the game but I dare say they come at a premium but certainly looks like we could be in for some exciting games as long as we don’t get too many 3-3 or 5-5 games 

Your last paragraph says it all. We're crying out for this. 

[1960maaan]

7 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

It's not about having a style of play rather the personnel to play to whatever style the situation demands, often dictated by who the opposition is and how they are playing.

Our problem under the past several managers has been inflexibility. Their preferred style is terrific when it works else it goes basketcase, there's little inbetween. There's also a problem with stubbornness, the reluctance to change one's oft touted style and tactics when clearly they're demonstrated not to be  working. WeeLee tends to revert to 'throw everybody upfront but still punt it at the little un' or 'overload/abandon midfield'. He's not helped by us lacking an authoritative playmaker in the middle of the park who can actively orchestrate the changes, then again it's him who constructs the squad.

Of course you are absolutely right with your first point, and couldn't agree more with the inflexibility .
My worry come with the highlighted section. I know there has been chat about the slight change in targets, and murmurings about LJ having more say in transfer targets , I really hope this is true . Last year, even the year before, the recruitment looked as though we were signing players because they were potential money spinners in the future, or they were available and fit some criteria . Fitting into a team  seemed to come secondary. I'm hoping Lee has an idea of formations , and I typed that plural deliberately because of your point about flexibility. Our plan B (And D) need to be more studied than throwing a CB up front and lumping it. Also , I'm hoping that the recruitment is aimed at giving plenty of rotation possibilities if we are to press as we did for half a season last year. Maybe the next signing or two will give more of an idea what LJ is thinking.

[BTRFTG]

5 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

murmurings about LJ having more say in transfer targets

Irrespective of Ashton's or ultimately Lansdown's involvement I believe the initial selection of targets has always come from WeeLee (SL I think hadn't forgotten the problems his direct recruitment of James cost us.)

I also understand the 'Pillars' were silently dropped some time ago. WeeLee himself confessed that Engvald was a 'Panic Buy', someone he'd heard of but hadn't fully done his homework on. I feel others fall into that category.

[MATT BCFC]

See us playing 4-2-3-1 with a view to pressing high up the field and playing out the back. Dont be surprised to see us sign a keeper who is decent with the ball at his feet.

Its promising to see we have a style we are looking to play and buying players to fit in with that. Don't think many of our previous managers have really done that.

 

 

[Phileas Fogg]

1 hour ago, billywedlock said:

Lots of energy, but needs more quality , though a fit Webster is interesting. Watkins and Weinmann not of the quality needed to make the improvements SL is expecting. 

I asked you on another thread but received no reply. I've seen you write comments to that effect on a few threads, who would you like us to sign to improve the side?

[DaveInSA]

mmm. I'm loving this thread :-)

Many positive comments and a vibe that we're recruiting the right players (which we are).

My shopping list would be:

Midfield (as many others have said). We're weak. You can't score five and draw games. Apparently we had the two best centre halfs in the division. Teams played right through where our midfield should have been last season. We need a boss, who can pass. 

Defence - a proper right back please.

GK

I'm tempted to say a goalscorer. but the past three seasons we seem to have found goals from unlikely sources.

We absolutely have to be more aware, compact and solid in defence. Formations and all that are for the birds if you aren't organised and you don't communicate.

[Monkeh]

4 hours ago, billywedlock said:

Lots of energy, but needs more quality , though a fit Webster is interesting. Watkins and Weinmann not of the quality needed to make the improvements SL is expecting. 

Progress if LJ has actually decided how he wants his side to play and the club sign the players to match. 

Hmmm Steve C ? 

nice to see you've given them at least 10 games before writing them off, I bet you did the same with Adomah and Wilbraham

[spudski]

5 hours ago, billywedlock said:

Lots of energy, but needs more quality , though a fit Webster is interesting. Watkins and Weinmann not of the quality needed to make the improvements SL is expecting. 

Progress if LJ has actually decided how he wants his side to play and the club sign the players to match. 

Hmmm Steve C ? 

I don't think we can afford the quality needed for Promotion at the present moment.

As someone said to me recently...a 25 man squad on wages averaging between 20-30k a week each is what you have to be looking at.

Plenty of quality out there...but there are also plenty of teams willing and able to pay those sorts of wages, if you are happy to be a squad player.

You'll get the few exceptions, but in general, that's what you are looking at in this league.

The Championship is even tougher next season imo. We will do well to finish top half...and imo, that would still be progress.

What we all want is a tough ask...the money for wages across the whole squad just isn't there...that's why we have to cut our cloth to suit.

[BCFC_Dan]

We ran out of steam last season because nobody can press for 90 minutes, 50 games a season. If you're going to press high when the opposition has the ball then you need to be able to keep possession when they don't in order to minimise that time. We can do the press but we can't keep the ball.

I can see LJ trying to address the problem but his efforts so far have largely fallen flat. Defenders who can pass are often defenders who make mistakes, and LJ is old-school in not trusting defenders who make mistakes. He's going to run into problems here if he's not careful. I don't know what the story was but from the outside it looks as though he wanted Hegeler to be a classy, ball-playing centre half, but for whatever reason (possibly just bad luck with injury) he never got the chance to do so. Maybe Webster will.

We probably don't have the team or resources for promotion right now, unless we get very lucky, but the team is developing in such a way that if it does get there we'll have a chance of staying. Unlike Warnock's Cardiff, who will be down by Christmas if his previous attempts at that league are anything to go by.

[Mr Popodopolous]

15 minutes ago, BCFC_Dan said:

We ran out of steam last season because nobody can press for 90 minutes, 50 games a season. If you're going to press high when the opposition has the ball then you need to be able to keep possession when they don't in order to minimise that time. We can do the press but we can't keep the ball.

I can see LJ trying to address the problem but his efforts so far have largely fallen flat. Defenders who can pass are often defenders who make mistakes, and LJ is old-school in not trusting defenders who make mistakes. He's going to run into problems here if he's not careful. I don't know what the story was but from the outside it looks as though he wanted Hegeler to be a classy, ball-playing centre half, but for whatever reason (possibly just bad luck with injury) he never got the chance to do so. Maybe Webster will.

We probably don't have the team or resources for promotion right now, unless we get very lucky, but the team is developing in such a way that if it does get there we'll have a chance of staying. Unlike Warnock's Cardiff, who will be down by Christmas if his previous attempts at that league are anything to go by.

Tend to agree with what you're saying, but we did keep the ball quite well up to and including that Wolves game I felt- we retained it quite well at times, Paterson behind Reid helped with that with a 4-4-2-0/4-4-1-1 type system.

Ideally though I agree, mix of passing and pressing seems to be the aim- and a key reason we struggled to keep the ball, especially 2nd half of the season - in addition to the injuries, the Cup run and running out of steam, the 4-4-2 IMO. Vs good or decent sides, that 4-4-2 is a problem. Neither Baker nor Flint, for all their attributes were obviously a ball-playing centre back.

[Redandwhitescarf]

Think we could well be adapting a style similar to England. Just need that plan B.

[Andy Horsman]

My personal bugbear, particularly notable when we've struggled during parts of the last two seasons has been the pace at which we attack teams. All too often our players are getting into promising positions and then playing square or backward passes allowing the opposition to regain their composure and settle into 'two banks of four' and becoming harder to breakdown again. If with new personnel/formations/tactics, we can eliminate those periods in the game where we seem to surrender the attacking initiative, City will be a very attractive watch more often. And with pace and power bloody difficult to live with!!

[Cowshed]

7 hours ago, BCFC_Dan said:

We ran out of steam last season because nobody can press for 90 minutes, 50 games a season. If you're going to press high when the opposition has the ball then you need to be able to keep possession when they don't in order to minimise that time. We can do the press but we can't keep the ball.

I can see LJ trying to address the problem but his efforts so far have largely fallen flat. Defenders who can pass are often defenders who make mistakes, and LJ is old-school in not trusting defenders who make mistakes. He's going to run into problems here if he's not careful. I don't know what the story was but from the outside it looks as though he wanted Hegeler to be a classy, ball-playing centre half, but for whatever reason (possibly just bad luck with injury) he never got the chance to do so. Maybe Webster will.

We probably don't have the team or resources for promotion right now, unless we get very lucky, but the team is developing in such a way that if it does get there we'll have a chance of staying. Unlike Warnock's Cardiff, who will be down by Christmas if his previous attempts at that league are anything to go by.

Liverpool press far more vigorously for a season than Bristol City did for a few months of last season. If Bristol City ran out of steam by January there was something seriously wrong with the squads preparation and fitness. 

Cardiff pressed aggressively and did so with possession of less than 50% - They are not keeping the ball -  They chased it more than BCFC did.

Famara physically cannot press adeptly. His prescience in the team means the side presses deeper, if it does because Famara frequently does not act as the first defender and trigger to work off. Its highly debatable if he has the fitness and mobility for it. Djuric ditto … Both have attributes to bring to the XI but swarming the opposition as Bobby did aggressively as the first defender is not one of their primary skills.

There are multitudes of pressing styles. Counter pressing is effective allied to a short passing game - When the team loses it the team is in close proximity to win it back as they will frequently outnumber the opposition in a unit, and then can transition in numbers. Bristol City could effectively keep the ball last season when instructed and could also pass the football accurately when instructed. 

The reason Bristol City ceased pressing high last season was because Lee Johnson did not want them to. The reason Bristol City stopped keeping the ball as well as they did, and at times the team monopolised over 60% of possession x high passing accuracies was because Lee Johnson did not want/need/desire them too - He (re) introduced players into the team who would only more encourage long passing, less accuracy, less possession in an effort to add verticality and tempo - A positive or negative depending on footballing preference.

Any side that has a Keeper who does that with goal kicks is not valuing possession particularly highly.