International watch (merged)

[cidercity1987]

What a shit decision!! No point having those behind the goal if they can't see that was a fair goal

[Slippin cider]

1 minute ago, cidercity1987 said:

What a shit decision!! No point having those behind the goal if they can't see that was a fair goal

Awful decision...

[cidercity1987]

Goalies can do what they want and attackers can't even stand still with a bloke clobbering all over them!!

[Mr Popodopolous]

Harsh decision to disallow tbh, thought we deserved a point.

[AppyDAZE]

Foul, for me. Welbeck pushes defender then, not looking at the ball, backs into De Gea.

Ref didn't "bottle it" Kane, you sound stupid. Spain deserved the win, take it on the chin.

[North London Red]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

This scoreline doesn't surprise me a huge deal.

Until Spain made a ridicukous decision to sack their manager the day before the tournament, for me they were one of the favourites. Hierro is a manager of little experience and it showed v Russia when they were 1-0 up- in qualifying (have ITV4 so saw their games v Italy) they did tikitaka but also bit more direct, quicker in the pass that sort of thing. That was Lopetetgui's philosophy- Hierro just fell back on extreme passing, because it's all he knew.

Switzerland 6-0 Iceland? Switzerland are a decent side with by their standards a golden generation- poor finishing their main achilles heel tbh. Not had a productive striker in years.

@North London Red

Don't know if you recall but early doors, Panama could have scored 2 or 3 vs us. Now that was down to our sloppiness in large parts but it's easy to forget that in a 6-1 win and how they were physically very dirty.

 

53 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Yes it was. Still happened. My point is every team played as well or much better than us in every second half game at world cup. Once they had figured us out. 

I was in Nizhny Novgorod and to say Panama could have scored 2 or 3, or that we couldn’t live with them, is a slight exaggeration in my humble view. Yes, they had a couple of early attacks, but I never once felt we were on the ropes. If you saw it differently, fair enough. 

As for tonight, I’ve just left Wembley - all credit to Spain, they were decent. This won’t be a popular opinion, but I think we missed Sterling tonight. JonDolman - I actually agree we tended to see more of the opposition in our half late on in some of the games at the World Cup - and on more than one occasion that coincided with Sterling having left the pitch. 

[cidercity1987]

1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

Yes it was. Still happened. My point is every team played as well or much better than us in every second half game at world cup. Once they had figured us out. 

England tried their best to concede more than 1 v Panama as they knew by that point it was worthwhile to finish 2nd. The 6th was a fluke and wasn't meant to happen, that's the truth of the matter. I was there. 

England were also better than Tunisia and Sweden in the second half so not sure what your point is.

[Mr Popodopolous]

9 minutes ago, North London Red said:

 

I was in Nizhny Novgorod and to say Panama could have scored 2 or 3, or that we couldn’t live with them, is a slight exaggeration in my humble view. Yes, they had a couple of early attacks, but I never once felt we were on the ropes. If you saw it differently, fair enough. 

As for tonight, I’ve just left Wembley - all credit to Spain, they were decent. This won’t be a popular opinion, but I think we missed Sterling tonight. JonDolman - I actually agree we tended to see more of the opposition in our half late on in some of the games at the World Cup - and on more than one occasion that coincided with Sterling having left the pitch. 

Wouldn't say we couldn't live with them at all, but undoubtedly early on- largely through our sloppiness- we could have conceded 2 goals maybe. At 0-0. I remember distinctly in the early periods of the game a better side would have scored 2 IMO- in the sense that we gave away 2 big chances.

Tonight- agree on Sterling, he definitely creates space for others even if he doesn't necessarily get the end product he should.

[Harry]

Can anyone tell me what the contribution of Dele Alli was tonight? 

From what I could see it was the square root of **** all. 

 

[Harry]

2 hours ago, harrys said:

I forgot how poor a player Henderson was

Yep. At this level he’s not quick enough on the ball. He’s fine when he’s given 5 yards to control, turn and pass, but when decent teams put him under pressure he has no composure and that results in him either losing the ball or playing a panic ball to a team mate and putting them under pressure  

This England team will be ten times better once a decent replacement for Henderson and Alli are found. Both very poor at this level. 

We had 3 centre backs tonight who are better ball-players than our central midfielder 

[JoeAman08]

5 minutes ago, Harry said:

Can anyone tell me what the contribution of Dele Alli was tonight? 

From what I could see it was the square root of **** all. 

 

I thought he tried to be positive and get forward. Don’t think many others in England think as quickly as he does. I could imagine him playing better in that Spain side though. I will agree he doesn’t affect games as much as he should though. Now if we want to talk about Lingard and his contributions then I can do that. Honestly did not know he was on the pitch for a good 60 min

[Harry]

1 minute ago, JoeAman08 said:

I thought he tried to be positive and get forward. Don’t think many others in England think as quickly as he does. I could imagine him playing better in that Spain side though. I will agree he doesn’t affect games as much as he should though. Now if we want to talk about Lingard and his contributions then I can do that. Honestly did not know he was on the pitch for a good 60 min

You saw a very different Alli to me. I saw one good run forward. Aside from that the game totally passed him by. I’ve not seen a bigger passenger in an international for a long long time. 

[JasonM88]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

You saw a very different Alli to me. I saw one good run forward. Aside from that the game totally passed him by. I’ve not seen a bigger passenger in an international for a long long time. 

Dele Alli is still very young and has, quite frankly, ridiculous stats in the Premier League. 

[pillred]

despite how crap we were tonight according to most on here, and for the most part I wold have to agree, how that equaliser was not given only the officials will know, after 10 mins though I said to my brother we have our work cut out tonight playing against 12 men!

[pillred]

after all the big build up to how we were moving on to a new way and all the hype of how our young teams were coming through, how disappointing was that tonight, don't know about you sat watching it I cringed, Spain being crap apparently according to their ranking still completely passed us out of the game, why cant we play like that, is it our mindset or our coaching. Very frustrating, for me if we are trying something different it had better be be better than that.

[joe jordans teeth]

Not nearly as disappointing as the thread title 

[pillred]

4 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

Not nearly as disappointing as the thread title 

and your take on the game, and opinion on our progress would be much appreciated, smart ass.

[Dastardly and Muttley]

8 hours ago, Harry said:

Can anyone tell me what the contribution of Dele Alli was tonight? 

From what I could see it was the square root of **** all. 

 

Totally agree. Same as his contribution during the WC IMO, although I realise he wasn’t 100% fit then.

I don’t think you can play Lingard, Alli and Sterling in the same team as we tried at the WC, they’re too similar and try to do the same things.

Today showed that Sterling shouldn’t be the one to miss out. Alli’s turn next, I feel.

[Littlesh*t]

England over achieved at the world cup and Spain under achieved. if you think Spain are crap then football is not the game for you. 

the national side has come on loads from the disappointment of the last euros but there is still work to be done but at least we have bridged the divide between the fans and the team.

[Rob k]

5 hours ago, pillred said:

and your take on the game, and opinion on our progress would be much appreciated, smart ass.

It’s going to take time, it won’t happen overnight and we have to have patience, we are getting there slowly but lack that central midfielder to pull everything together.  The main issue the English team have is the premiership, lots of good young players simply cant get a game with good teams.

[Harry]

7 hours ago, JasonM88 said:

Dele Alli is still very young and has, quite frankly, ridiculous stats in the Premier League. 

Yep. Not denying that. But he was the most anonymous I’ve seen an England player in a long long time. 

Perhaps the England role he’s being asked to play is very different from his Spurs role? If so, and he can’t perform in the role, someone else should - cuz he was horrendous last night. 

[MarcusX]

12 hours ago, harrys said:

I forgot how poor a player Henderson was

Here we go 

[MarcusX]

7 hours ago, pillred said:

after all the big build up to how we were moving on to a new way and all the hype of how our young teams were coming through, how disappointing was that tonight, don't know about you sat watching it I cringed, Spain being crap apparently according to their ranking still completely passed us out of the game, why cant we play like that, is it our mindset or our coaching. Very frustrating, for me if we are trying something different it had better be be better than that.

Who in their right mind would think Spain were crap?

[Harry]

1 hour ago, Rob k said:

It’s going to take time, it won’t happen overnight and we have to have patience, we are getting there slowly but lack that central midfielder to pull everything together.  The main issue the English team have is the premiership, lots of good young players simply cant get a game with good teams.

The back 5 try to play possession but the pivot CM (Henderson) is not capable. Nor is Dier. Did you note that when Henderson was subbed, Dier & Stones would switch position when we had the ball. Basically Southgate must’ve spotted that we need a player in the CM role who can receive a pass and not panic under pressure. I swear Pack is better at ball retention when under pressure than Henderson is! 

Maybe Southgate sees Stones in the role. He certainly had him doing it for the last half hour yesterday. 

[1960maaan]

2 hours ago, Littlesh*t said:

England over achieved at the world cup and Spain under achieved. if you think Spain are crap then football is not the game for you. 

the national side has come on loads from the disappointment of the last euros but there is still work to be done but at least we have bridged the divide between the fans and the team.

Not sure we really overachieved, we won the games we should have. Maybe got further than expected due to how the tournament panned out though.
Spain's movement in the final third is light years better than ours, but I have been impressed with the passing from the back and finding space up to half way. We lack real quality a MF, and yesterday Ali,Kane and Henderson just didn't impose themselves on the game. 
I thought Shaw added real balance to the side, more solid than Rose and better threat and fit than Young. I hope that the likes of Loftus Cheek and Foden can step up soon , but there are good signs that we can compete with the better teams, if not expect to win things ........ yet 

[pillred]

2 hours ago, MarcusX said:

Who in their right mind would think Spain were crap?

not me certainly, but their ranking has slipped quite a bit lately and they did not have a great world cup, still looked a better team than us on last nights showing though.

[Davefevs]

14 hours ago, robin_unreliant said:

I've never been able to work out what managers see in him. Should never be near international level.

As usual, play a decent team and our midfield can't get the ball and the defending is a joke.

England are nowhere near as good as a SF World Cup looked on paper.

Henderson gets lots of stick, yet there’s none to little criticism of Alli or Lingard from our midfield last night.  Both had poor games last night, much worse than Henderson, and Alli has flattered to deceive for a long time in an England shirt. He does nothing anymore.  I fairness, I thought Dier did welll, better than Henderson, when he came on.  But you can’t play a midfield 3 against Spain, and 2 not perform!

13 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Welbeck did foul defender but ref wasn't giving it for that. Don't know why Welbeck never gets starts for England. Always scored goals, looked a real threat when coming on again. Bit strange how at international level when someone actually does well, a manager will look at what they do for their club and drop them. He never should have lost his place a few years back.

Tin hat time....but if Harry Kane didn’t score goals, he wouldn’t be in my team, let alone captain.  Against the better teams (Spain last night, Croatia and Belgium in the WC), he has contributed little to nothing and it’s like playing with 10, in fact 9, if I include Alli too.  I noticed last night how little pressing he does too, pointing for others to do it and jogging around at 80%.  It is a dilemma for Southgate, because Kane will continue his very decent goals to game ratio, but scoring against teams lower down the rankings, and he’ll get the odd one against the top teams, that will cloud our opinion of him.

Rashford - such a talent, but really not sure he has the football-intelligence to make the most of it.  He’s young, so I'm still floating on this one.  Seems to go through the motions and very reactive to what’s going on around him.  Not a good partnership with Kane imho.

[JoeAman08]

14 hours ago, Harry said:

You saw a very different Alli to me. I saw one good run forward. Aside from that the game totally passed him by. I’ve not seen a bigger passenger in an international for a long long time. 

I think I take his game as a whole not just last night. As said very young but like what I see from him. He needs to mature and bring his top game more often. Also do not think that deeper role suits him so much.

I look out there and see worse than Dele Alli on the pitch. Think England have similar problems as City do. How to fit a quick pressing team around your star striker and how to get the best out of him. The midfielders aren’t dynamic enough. Too one dimesnional for a top team. 

[Port Said Red]

On a different note, I see Rory Holden scored the winner for NIron U21s.... Another one coming through on the conveyor belt? 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, JoeAman08 said:

I think I take his game as a whole not just last night. As said very young but like what I see from him. He needs to mature and bring his top game more often. Also do not think that deeper role suits him so much.

I look out there and see worse than Dele Alli on the pitch. Think England have similar problems as City do. How to fit a quick pressing team around your star striker and how to get the best out of him. The midfielders aren’t dynamic enough. Too one dimesnional for a top team. 

I seriously cannot remember a game in the last 12 months where I thought he contributed much at all.  I’m surprised Southgate persists with him.  Loftus-Cheek has done so much more in limited minutes imho.  I like the 352, it suits us I think, but Alli is a passenger, does little towards his own goal too.  We aren’t good enough against the better nations to carry a player who might get a goal, those are getting fewer and far between.