The Poppy (Merged)

[Super]

43 minutes ago, 054123 said:

I almost thought this would be the year we move past this.

Obviously not.

Please feel free to visit the relevant thread from last year and the year before and the year before.....

Could just ignore the thread?

[Chappers]

Personal choice, red poppy, white poppy, no poppy. We care so much that Governments have quite a track record of no conscience towards ex-Service people, as exemplified by its attitude to those suffering from after-effects of nuclear tests. As a result of the hysteria, I donate to the BL (Most important part) and only wear my poppy on 11/11. 

 

[BigTone]

7 minutes ago, Chappers said:

Personal choice, red poppy, white poppy, no poppy. We care so much that Governments have quite a track record of no conscience towards ex-Service people, as exemplified by its attitude to those suffering from after-effects of nuclear tests. As a result of the hysteria, I donate to the BL (Most important part) and only wear my poppy on 11/11. 

 

Thats the day I wear mine

[Three Lions]

3 hours ago, ballwinningcentrehalf said:

It’s a personal choice and should come free from judgement or condemnation, be it wearing one or choosing not to like McLean or Matic. McLean was spot on to call out the cavemen that continue to insult him.

I, for one, am shocked bs4 on tour has opened up his favourites tab to post the same Celtic videos he brings up every year

 

His personal choice is to turn his back when God save the Queen was played, to not honour a minutes silence, call Stoke fans *****, and quote the IRA a judgement is this Country is too good for him.

[cidercity1987]

My opinion is if these blokes can not show some respect for the fallen and to our cultures and values once per year then what are they doing here making millions from our game.

McClean can piss off to the League of Ireland

[cidercity1987]

Charfield is looking resplendent with poppies lining the main road all the way through the village

[BS4 on Tour...]

3 hours ago, harrys said:

Just to make it clear, it’s only the fact that he doesn’t wear a poppy that I agree with, i think he should of shown a bit of restraint in the things he has supposedly said/done in the last few days. On a similar note I see Liverpool have stopped Shaquiri from travelling to Serbia for the Champions league game this week because of his background and heritage.

Shaqiri is being left out of the Liverpool squad because of his ‘Albanian nationalist eagle symbol’ celebration when Switzerland scored against Serbia in the World Cup....

[Midlands Robin]

I can't stand this pressure to wear the poppy. Wear one if you want, don't if you don't.

Don't disrespect people's choice either way.

At the same time, don't read into a symbol things that aren't there. The red isn't for blood, the leaf doesn't need to be at the 11am position. Wear it on the left, right or respectfully wherever you choose. There is no laid down way.

Just remember all who served gave up some of their life and some who served gave up all of their life.

[Harry]

49 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Charfield is looking resplendent with poppies lining the main road all the way through the village

Indeed. Proud of my village right now. Looks great. 

[BS4 on Tour...]

3 hours ago, ballwinningcentrehalf said:

It’s a personal choice and should come free from judgement or condemnation, be it wearing one or choosing not to like McLean or Matic. McLean was spot on to call out the cavemen that continue to insult him.

I, for one, am shocked bs4 on tour has opened up his favourites tab to post the same Celtic videos he brings up every year

 

What a load of bollocks - one of the videos I posted was from a game 5 days ago....so I post that every year do I? And it was also the first time I had ever posted one of the other videos too....so of three videos, two were posted for the first time ever....and even if I had posted them every year, they would continue to show Celtic fans to be the vile creatures that they are. And that ain’t a bad thing. They have zero respect for this time of year even though Celtic players were killed during the wars as serving soldiers....they openly support terrorism and an organisation that blew up Bristol in 1974.....so your smug comment and equally smug emoji are just pathetic....

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Three Lions said:

He is getting fried by Stoke fans for walking around during a minutes silence, making comments about being a proud fenian and quoting the IRA.

That I missed; if he did then he’s utterly deplorable, but for that, not the refusal to wear the poppy (IMO) 

[Harry]

It’s sad how this special Remembrance Day has turned into a political farce. 

Quite why someone thought it a good idea a few years ago to put poppies on football shirts I don’t know. There was nothing wrong with hosting a respectful minutes silence before games on the Remembrance weekend. Sticking poppies on the shirts was the first step to politicising the poppy. Bad idea. 

When I was growing up, Remembrance Sunday was about giving a moment of thought and respect to all those who died in the Great War of 14-18. I’m not sure when the context of it changed to become ‘all’ conflicts, but that was the catalyst for people to play politics with it. 

Taking Mr Matic’s stance, for me, Remembrance Sunday is nothing to do with the bombing of Serbia (which I actually disagreed with). However, Mr Matic is free to do what he wants and if he doesn’t want to wear a poppy on his football shirt then I don’t see a problem. However, short of focussing on the events of 1989, Mr Matic would do well to remember the events of 1914, during which it was his Countrymen who started the war, and during which his Country lost 60% of its male population. Perhaps he might consider a moments silence on Sunday morning to remember that. But of course, he doesn’t have to - entirely his choice. 

As for McClean. Again, he has every right to not wear a poppy on his football shirt (still can’t believe why this is a thing to be honest) but his stance certainly seems to be one of a more ‘anti-poppy’ nature than just a simple ‘not wearing one’ nature. Again, I put this down to the context (whenever it morphed), of ‘all’ conflict - this opens up the poppy to becoming a negative symbol of war or colonialism to some people, rather than it being just a simple symbol of Remembrance. 

As I said at the start, how very sad that it’s come to this. 

[ballwinningcentrehalf]

27 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

What a load of bollocks - one of the videos I posted was from a game 5 days ago....so I post that every year do I? And it was also the first time I had ever posted one of the other videos too....so of three videos, two were posted for the first time ever....and even if I had posted them every year, they would continue to show Celtic fans to be the vile creatures that they are. And that ain’t a bad thing. They have zero respect for this time of year even though Celtic players were killed during the wars as serving soldiers....they openly support terrorism and an organisation that blew up Bristol in 1974.....so your smug comment and equally smug emoji are just pathetic....

Hi bs4, you’ve taken my comment to heart, but I respect your right to highlight your disdain for Celtic and their supporters, as you do often. Even as a Celtic fan I don’t disagree with everything you write.

I’m sorry that I hit a nerve, easy to be facetious on the internet but this can be an emotive topic and has obviously hit a nerve. Let’s be friends x

[BS4 on Tour...]

7 minutes ago, ballwinningcentrehalf said:

Hi bs4, you’ve taken my comment to heart, but I respect your right to highlight your disdain for Celtic and their supporters, as you do often. Even as a Celtic fan I don’t disagree with everything you write.

I’m sorry that I hit a nerve, easy to be facetious on the internet but this can be an emotive topic and has obviously hit a nerve. Let’s be friends x

I’m happy to be friends! It is an emotive subject, the 1974 bombings in Bristol directly affected my family....so I obviously have a lot of disdain for the football supporters who openly support the organisation responsible for that atrocity and others like it....

[LondonBristolian]

I suppose there are three things I think on this:

1) The Royal British Legion, who of course run the poppy appeal and who it raises money for, are very vocal every year about the fact it should be a personal choice and nobody should feel criticised nor condemned  for not wearing one.  Anyone insisting people must wear one is showing a lack of respect for the wishes of those who run the poppy appeal.

2) if everyone wears it because they feel forced, the whole gesture becomes meaningless. People wearing poppies through social pressure demeans and devalues the poppied worn by those who choose to do so.

3) Like I am sure the majority of posters on here, I have relatives who died in the two world wars. Nonetheless I’m really uncomfortable with posters on here presuming what those who died in those wars would have thought or wanted. To be honest, those who died fighting for Britain were a diverse range of people from all over Britain and the commonwealth. It is daft to pretend they all wanted the same thing and would all expect everyone to wear the poppy. I respect everyone‘s right to a point of view but I don’t agree that anyone has the right to put their own words into the mouths of fallen soldiers.

On a related note, I went to see the remembrance torches at the Tower of London tonight and they are utterly spectacular and the effect is very moving. Well worth a look for anyone who is in London over the next few days.

[TV Tom]

1 hour ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Shaqiri is being left out of the Liverpool squad because of his ‘Albanian nationalist eagle symbol’ celebration when Switzerland scored against Serbia in the World Cup....

Oh yeh, remember now, if you want bitterness and hatred around what was formerly Yugoslavia that is the place to go, I use to work with a Croat women in the ‘90s who was absolutely nuts and hated everyone

[Kid in the Riot]

2 hours ago, Three Lions said:

His personal choice is to turn his back when God save the Queen was played, to not honour a minutes silence, call Stoke fans *****, and quote the IRA a judgement is this Country is too good for him.

I didn't realise Jeremy Corbyn played for Stoke.

[ballwinningcentrehalf]

3 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

I’m happy to be friends! It is an emotive subject, the 1974 bombings in Bristol directly affected my family....so I obviously have a lot of disdain for the football supporters who openly support the organisation responsible for that atrocity and others like it....

I understand completely - could I even play devils advocate and suggest that your comment definitely draws parallels in my mind with many (especially of Irish descent) that hold a deep rooted hatred for atrocities carried out by the British Army and probably sing about it at Celtic Park?

It would certainly be better if these antics were away from football, but then they’d still exist either way. The problem is that it is so deep rooted on either side. I completely understand your ill-feeling towards them and can only hope one day everyone moves forward and finds some common ground.

The Poppy Appeal is a good cause in my mind and doesn’t deserve to be twisted as it has been on various sides for various different motivations.

[TV Tom]

I have no problem with anyone calling Stoke fans cavemen

[Chappers]

A lot of WW1 vets would not wear the poppy initially. I dislike what the poppy has become, with deranged leaders and nationalism on the rise, it is clear that lessons have not been learnt.

Bedt add I fully support the cause, it’s the self-righteousness I loathe. Somme , Verdun, Ypres, Stalingrad... Never again

[Kingswood Robin]

6 hours ago, nebristolred said:

Is a country where you're forced to wear a political symbol really a free country?

I have no problem whatsoever wearing a poppy by the way. What our ancestors went through was horrific and they sacrificed everything for us. But I understand there are rare circumstances where those feel uncomfortable wearing it, and I respect them.

I completely agree with the freedom of choice, that's what we fought for alongside many Irish volunteers in WW1, around 50000 were killed. What I think is really poor though, is to refer to an act of remembrance as a political symbol. I don't think we should pollute the poppy with filthy politics. Many of the young men that fought in WW1 weren't even allowed to vote (sorry ladies 1918 wasn't all about you) and had no say in the politics that sent them to war in the first place. I think most people wear the poppy to remember people like them, not the people that sent them to war.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, harrys said:

Oh yeh, remember now, if you want bitterness and hatred around what was formerly Yugoslavia that is the place to go, I use to work with a Croat women in the ‘90s who was absolutely nuts and hated everyone

Ha, had a former teacher- who was pretty old in the early 2000's who was from old Yugoslavia before it all broke up- unsure which country, could have been Croatia.

Right idiot she was- fairly nuts sums it up really! Think she got the old heave ho, used to give various kids a clout from memory and threaten people with 'Full school detention'- erm yeah ha, you never know eh may have been the same one or at least a relative!?

On a general note, given Bristol not a city with a big old Irish Catholic influx like say Liverpool or Manchester which will cause its own tensions, or say near Scotland like I dunno Newcastle or even more northern parts of England- let alone Glasgow or varied areas of Scotland- how the Sectarian divide found its way onto here tbh, @BS4 on Tour... one of the primary drum bashers.

[real_bristol]

10 hours ago, Undy English said:

I have mixed feelings on this one.

Firstly, Stoke, as a club, have backed the Poppy Appeal. That means they support, endorse and promote the Appeal by having the image on shirts and media etc. A club is more than 1 person. So if you're part of the club surely it can't be one rule for 1 and one rule for another?

Secondly, WW2 notably was thought for freedom from Nazism/fascism/dictatorship, ensuring the people of Europe remain free to make their own decisions. So should an individual like McClean be allowed to decide whether or not he wears one?

But thirdly, and for me the biggest of all, is a matter of respect. If you live in someone else's country, who have certain traditions and practices, you should be a respectable guest and abide by these (and even if you do oppose it, simply keep a respectful silence). McClean does neither and has to make controversial statements each year about being a "proud fenian" and the Poppy being "blood-stained". He has to make it known he won't wear one in the Press via club statements. Players like Aguero, who's countrymen died fighting Britain for the Falklands, respectfully wears a Poppy when in England and makes no noise or loud commotion. Same when Tevez etc. were here. Only in Argentina do such players hold banners supporting their Falklands claims. But over here, in the UK, they wear the Poppy and retain a respectful silence. That's how it should be.

I completely agree with your stance on this. For a long time me and what seems like generations before me in my family were brought up on a “when in Rome” level of respect for the country you in which you reside.

An argument against what your saying is, I think MacClean is British, assuming he was born in Northern Ireland, in which case he should be able to protest against his own governance. The other issue he may have is a personal one. Does he risk his own and his family’s safety, whether that’s here or in Derry or wherever, if he chooses to wear one? Which I acknowledge is an ironic twist based on the fact he’s probably been too vocal in his decision not to.

[Red Skin]

7 hours ago, ballwinningcentrehalf said:

 

I, for one, am shocked bs4 on tour has opened up his favourites tab to post the same Celtic videos he brings up every year

 

I'm not shocked.  @BS4 on Tour... How about going on tour to Ibrox?  Any staying up there??

James McLean has every right right not to wear the poppy.  Celtic fans have every right to demand their club doesn't have it their shirt.

Only the most ignorant Englishman would fail to acknowledge British colonial past brought misery to the countries they exploited.  When nationals and their descendents from those countries don't join in the celebration of British soldiers that committed atrocities in some of those campaigns is completely understandable.  

[stevep38]

11 hours ago, Crisis what Crisis ? said:

 

Awhhhh bless....i'm soooo sorry these poor little footballers and the rest of you  feel ' oppressed ' and ' pressured into showing some respect ONCE A YEAR !

.....and by the way, how the hell do you think you got to live in a ' free country '  if not for the sacrifice of others ?

And that sir is a top post. Well said. 

[BS4 on Tour...]

8 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Ha, had a former teacher- who was pretty old in the early 2000's who was from old Yugoslavia before it all broke up- unsure which country, could have been Croatia.

Right idiot she was- fairly nuts sums it up really! Think she got the old heave ho, used to give various kids a clout from memory and threaten people with 'Full school detention'- erm yeah ha, you never know eh may have been the same one or at least a relative!?

On a general note, given Bristol not a city with a big old Irish Catholic influx like say Liverpool or Manchester which will cause its own tensions, or say near Scotland like I dunno Newcastle or even more northern parts of England- let alone Glasgow or varied areas of Scotland- how the Sectarian divide found its way onto here tbh, @BS4 on Tour... one of the primary drum bashers.

Eh? I’ve just highlighted one set of fans’ utter disdain for the Poppy and what it stands for on a thread about the Poppy and their apparent need to make these views so public every year - how is that banging a drum about a sectarian divide?!!

[Sixtyseconds]

7 hours ago, RedSkin said:

I'm not shocked.  @BS4 on Tour... How about going on tour to Ibrox?  Any staying up there??

James McLean has every right right not to wear the poppy.  Celtic fans have every right to demand their club doesn't have it their shirt.

Only the most ignorant Englishman would fail to acknowledge British colonial past brought misery to the countries they exploited.  When nationals and their descendents from those countries don't join in the celebration of British soldiers that committed atrocities in some of those campaigns is completely understandable.  

Best put that in context.

Also liberators.

But anyway.

That's not what this cove is doing.

Check his CV.

Wants to offend and cause gnashing and gnarling.

He is a  lady garden.

 

 

[nebristolred]

10 hours ago, Kingswood Robin said:

I completely agree with the freedom of choice, that's what we fought for alongside many Irish volunteers in WW1, around 50000 were killed. What I think is really poor though, is to refer to an act of remembrance as a political symbol. I don't think we should pollute the poppy with filthy politics. Many of the young men that fought in WW1 weren't even allowed to vote (sorry ladies 1918 wasn't all about you) and had no say in the politics that sent them to war in the first place. I think most people wear the poppy to remember people like them, not the people that sent them to war.

Fair point, it wasn't intentional terminology but I agree I could have worded it better 

[BS2 Red]

I no longer wear a poppy due to the demands by people that I wear one.  Wearing a poppy is a personal choice and nobody should pressure others into wearing one.

The final straw for me was when I was verbally (and almost physically) abused in a pub for not wearing one a few years ago.  It was over a week away from Remembrance Sunday and I was just on a night out.  Suddenly this meathead (and a few of his friends) started demanding to know "where's your poppy?" and slowly turned it into a big deal with lots of verbal, despite me telling them that I always bought one and usually wore one.

I will buy one every year, but I am not wearing one.

[Cowshed]

7 hours ago, RedSkin said:

 

Only the most ignorant .  

 

7 hours ago, RedSkin said:

 the celebration of British soldiers that committed atrocities in some of those campaigns is completely understandable.  

Would suggest that it is.