The Poppy (Merged)

[Undy English]

 

4 hours ago, nebristolred said:

The poppy IS blood stained. How can you dispute that? British soldiers killed people from his hometown!!! That's literally his problem with it, and I agree with him. He's even said himself that if it was just for WW1 and WW2 victims he'd wear it every day. Turning his back on the national anthem is probably for similar reasons but I agree that is a little disrespectful.

How difficult is it to comprehend that it is 100x easier for Matic to maintain a respectful silence given it's his first year of doing it and he hasn't had papers berating him every day year after year?

It's really not hard to understand lads....

Not disputing that at all. But you originally asked why he gets such a hard time whereas Matic doesn't. These are the reasons:

1.) Shows disrespect to the nation where he now lives by turning his back on the national anthem. Wherever you are in the world, whatever country, not a good move. He was hounded for it and rightly so. Just keep a dignified silence.

2.) Releases press statements about the Poppy being 'blood stained'. As you correctly said, it;s true in many parts of the world. Brits committed atrocities in Ireland, India and the East, but publicly slating this symbol of remembrance to troops of the country you now live in and pays your wages is not going to endear you to the public.

3.) When it's the minutes silence, regardless of your political opinions, disagreements or history, again, just respect the nation you're in and keep quiet for 60 seconds, as is the custom of the people living there. Again, failure to do so won't do you any favors.

Here's why Matic doesn't get the same abuse:

1.) Doesn't disrespect the anthem of the UK by turning his back when it's played at major sporting events.

2.) Doesn't make a song and dance in the press. Releases 1 respectfully worded press release that doesn't criticize the Poppy or those who wear it - just explains the reasons he won't personally.

3.) Observes the minute's silence faultlessly without incident, despite his personal sentiments.

 

I hope that clarifies it. Not meaning to have a go, but think it's pretty clear why both cases are viewed differently by the public. Matic has respect, McClean has none. 

 

[TV Tom]

4 minutes ago, Undy English said:

 

Not disputing that at all. But you originally asked why he gets such a hard time whereas Matic doesn't. These are the reasons:

1.) Shows disrespect to the nation where he now lives by turning his back on the national anthem. Wherever you are in the world, whatever country, not a good move. He was hounded for it and rightly so. Just keep a dignified silence.

2.) Releases press statements about the Poppy being 'blood stained'. As you correctly said, it;s true in many parts of the world. Brits committed atrocities in Ireland, India and the East, but publicly slating this symbol of remembrance to troops of the country you now live in and pays your wages is not going to endear you to the public.

3.) When it's the minutes silence, regardless of your political opinions, disagreements or history, again, just respect the nation you're in and keep quiet for 60 seconds, as is the custom of the people living there. Again, failure to do so won't do you any favors.

Here's why Matic doesn't get the same abuse:

1.) Doesn't disrespect the anthem of the UK by turning his back when it's played at major sporting events.

2.) Doesn't make a song and dance in the press. Releases 1 respectfully worded press release that doesn't criticize the Poppy or those who wear it - just explains the reasons he won't personally.

3.) Observes the minute's silence faultlessly without incident, despite his personal sentiments.

 

I hope that clarifies it. Not meaning to have a go, but think it's pretty clear why both cases are viewed differently by the public. Matic has respect, McClean has none. 

 

Two completely different cases, has Matic had British troops marching down his street killing innocent civilians as what happened in Derry ?

[Mr Popodopolous]

12 minutes ago, Undy English said:

 

Not disputing that at all. But you originally asked why he gets such a hard time whereas Matic doesn't. These are the reasons:

1.) Shows disrespect to the nation where he now lives by turning his back on the national anthem. Wherever you are in the world, whatever country, not a good move. He was hounded for it and rightly so. Just keep a dignified silence.

2.) Releases press statements about the Poppy being 'blood stained'. As you correctly said, it;s true in many parts of the world. Brits committed atrocities in Ireland, India and the East, but publicly slating this symbol of remembrance to troops of the country you now live in and pays your wages is not going to endear you to the public.

3.) When it's the minutes silence, regardless of your political opinions, disagreements or history, again, just respect the nation you're in and keep quiet for 60 seconds, as is the custom of the people living there. Again, failure to do so won't do you any favors.

Here's why Matic doesn't get the same abuse:

1.) Doesn't disrespect the anthem of the UK by turning his back when it's played at major sporting events.

2.) Doesn't make a song and dance in the press. Releases 1 respectfully worded press release that doesn't criticize the Poppy or those who wear it - just explains the reasons he won't personally.

3.) Observes the minute's silence faultlessly without incident, despite his personal sentiments.

 

I hope that clarifies it. Not meaning to have a go, but think it's pretty clear why both cases are viewed differently by the public. Matic has respect, McClean has none. 

 

Agreed with basically all of that, in fact quite likely all of it. When in Rome etc.

By all means not wear it and hold whatever beliefs you wish to hold privately, but it just creates trouble to put some of the harder line beliefs publicly as McClean has.

[nebristolred]

2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

You talk about my statements- yet to see much acknowledgement by yourself that this has rumbled on since 2011, 2012 time@BS2 Red

For some weird reason that quote above has broken. But this isn't true. I absolutely acknowledge that this has rumbled on for years. What's your point? It's only been an issue because of the papers.

21 minutes ago, Undy English said:

 

Not disputing that at all. But you originally asked why he gets such a hard time whereas Matic doesn't. These are the reasons:

1.) Shows disrespect to the nation where he now lives by turning his back on the national anthem. Wherever you are in the world, whatever country, not a good move. He was hounded for it and rightly so. Just keep a dignified silence.

2.) Releases press statements about the Poppy being 'blood stained'. As you correctly said, it;s true in many parts of the world. Brits committed atrocities in Ireland, India and the East, but publicly slating this symbol of remembrance to troops of the country you now live in and pays your wages is not going to endear you to the public.

3.) When it's the minutes silence, regardless of your political opinions, disagreements or history, again, just respect the nation you're in and keep quiet for 60 seconds, as is the custom of the people living there. Again, failure to do so won't do you any favors.

Here's why Matic doesn't get the same abuse:

1.) Doesn't disrespect the anthem of the UK by turning his back when it's played at major sporting events.

2.) Doesn't make a song and dance in the press. Releases 1 respectfully worded press release that doesn't criticize the Poppy or those who wear it - just explains the reasons he won't personally.

3.) Observes the minute's silence faultlessly without incident, despite his personal sentiments.

I hope that clarifies it. Not meaning to have a go, but think it's pretty clear why both cases are viewed differently by the public. Matic has respect, McClean has none.

2 is not a stick to beat him with. He can describe it as blood stained because it bloody well is. I'm English and I think it is! If you even try to deny it then you're talking nonsense, so how on earth can you criticise him for telling the truth? Sod endearment, why should we paint a false narrative? On the other hand, I'll completely agree that 1 + 3 are probably too far.

As for the Matic points, I'm afraid it's far more simple than what you've posted. The reason is because a) he's not Irish and b) the papers are yet to go after him.

You have to bear in mind that most of this McLean stuff (silences/national anthems, etc) have been AFTER the papers have gone after him. So to say that the papers go after him BECAUSE of it is bollocks, they did so anyway. It's all bull**** to sell papers and make money when in reality he's stating a point which is completely fair.

[Mr Popodopolous]

He has the right to hold the view it is bloodstained- not a view I agree with, but he has the right to believe it.Stating it publicly is going to cause a major backlash however. 

How the Matic stuff plays out will be interesting, time will tell- maybe there will be a significantly adverse reaction and that too will escalate.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Talking of poppies in football generally and remembrance and all that.

I only remember in last 10-15 years poppies on shirts. In the 1970's, 1980's and 1990's even how was Remembrance Weekend marked at football? People who went especially in the 70's and 80's maybe able to tell us!

[sh1t_ref_again]

I will be wearing this superb poppy picked up today with pride

 

 

[Guest]

12 hours ago, CyderInACan said:

How long til a hybrid red/white/purple poppy appears then. Or a rainbow one. 

BIB This is unlikely

Reason being is that the Pink Triangle has much much more pertinence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_triangle