Boston Red Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 I am not just talking about the results and the lack of goals (5 goals in 7 games). I am talking about the performances. It's because Lee Johnson shortened the pitch. He did this because he thought it would help the high press. Except we are not playing the high press anymore. So now we are stuck with a narrow pitch and six wingers in the squad. It is the inconsistency about Johnson that bugs me. If you are going to narrow the pitch for the high press, don't give up on the high press!!! Or if you do, widen the pitch again!!! Home games at Ashton Gate were never this dull. A big pitch means width, space, attacking wide men, and goals. Sometimes the opposition would score but at least it was a good game. City 3 Portsmouth 3 on the opening day of the season. Cole and Jacki banging them in. We can't defend but it's better than this. Our big pitch and our wide men is part of our identity. Managers and players come and go, but this is a feature of the club. Except Johnson has ruined this and it can't be changed till the end of the season. If someone remembers to do it. Eliasson's cross for Paterson against Ipswich down in the corner could not have happened at home. Less space, and the defenders would have crowded him out. If we are trying to break down teams who have come for a point, like Millwall, space out wide makes it much easier for the attacking side. It's not difficult. Our attacking home form should be our strength. Why are we helping the opposition? Lee Johnson reminds me of what Patrick Barclay once said about Sepp Blatter. "He has 67 new ideas a day, 68 of them bad." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 I'm not sure about this, someone will be able to advise I'm sure, but I don't think we can shorten lengthen the pitch at will anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 I was saying after the last home game that we have a problem at home. We are failing to entertain the punters. The product being served up is rather dull. I’m happy to be a mid-table team in this division. I’ve got no dillusionment. But I’d rather it be with at least a little bit of excitement. This season has been as dull as I can remember ( and that includes the Sod & Pulis era’s). You HAVE to entertain your home punters. Throughout 2018 we haven’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbyhutchscurlymullet Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 It can be entertaining if you enjoy backwards and sideways passing. Our centre backs must touch the ball as many times as any other player. Get a free kick on half way...... Dont worry about hoiking it into the box,just pass it back to the centre half's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 15 minutes ago, REDOXO said: I'm not sure about this, someone will be able to advise I'm sure, but I don't think we can shorten lengthen the pitch at will anymore? You can before the season starts , but can’t change the dimensions mid season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midred Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 I thought we narrowed the pitch for the high pressing game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said: You can before the season starts , but can’t change the dimensions mid season Thats what I thought. So we are stuck with what we have @Boston Red Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 14 minutes ago, Harry said: I was saying after the last home game that we have a problem at home. We are failing to entertain the punters. The product being served up is rather dull. I’m happy to be a mid-table team in this division. I’ve got no dillusionment. But I’d rather it be with at least a little bit of excitement. This season has been as dull as I can remember ( and that includes the Sod & Pulis era’s). You HAVE to entertain your home punters. Throughout 2018 we haven’t. Exactly the same under his dad but back then it was mostly me that complained about drab football - now it’s pretty much everyone complaining. The difference is that back then City managed to scrap wins by the odd goal..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickolas Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 13 minutes ago, bobbyhutchscurlymullet said: It can be entertaining if you enjoy backwards and sideways passing. Our centre backs must touch the ball as many times as any other player. Get a free kick on half way...... Dont worry about hoiking it into the box,just pass it back to the centre half's. And with our Head Coach you get to play EXACTLY how he did as a player! he was a pointless player and is now bringing his own pointless game into our ‘identity’. Cheerio Lee. Get out of our club please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boston Red Posted December 2, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 I know it can only be changed at the end of the season. (If someone takes a decision to do it). That's what makes it worse. There is no consensus on LJ in, LJ out, are we overachieving, are we underachieving, is SL good, is SL bad, are we heading for relegation positions, can season be saved, etc etc. But there is a rapidly growing consensus amongst City fans that they simply do not want to spend their time watching the quality of football that is on offer this season. The forum is more or less agreed, and it is backed up by the lack of people in the stadium on match day. The old Ashton Gate pitch with width couldn't exactly make things worse................................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviestevieneville Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 6 minutes ago, Robbored said: Exactly the same under his dad but back then it was mostly me that complained about drab football - now it’s pretty much everyone complaining. The difference is that back then City managed to scrap wins by the odd goal..... Let it go ffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22A Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 23 minutes ago, bobbyhutchscurlymullet said: Get a free kick on half way...... Dont worry about hoiking it into the box,just pass it back to the centre half's. Too true I'm sorry to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 4 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said: Let it go ffs You don’t agree that LJ is serving up drab football? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviestevieneville Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 Just now, Robbored said: You don’t agree that LJ is serving up drab football? Totally agree. I’m on about you banging on about his dad . He embarrassed you get over it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said: Totally agree. I’m on about you banging on about his dad . You must agree then that GJ served up drab football - the difference is that back then he was scraping through with wins by the odd goal. LJ isn’t..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviestevieneville Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 Not taking the bait this time then , fair play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted December 11, 2018 Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 Was going to post about home form the other day but my phone died as per... LJ's first season- well it was the relegation run-in from February, 8 games 4 wins 13 points and 19 goals. Not fully a fortress but 1.625 ppg. His first full season- despite the disastrous run of the 8 losses on the spin, home form wasn't all that bad- 37 points, 11 wins, 33 goals. About 1.608 ppg. Last season- despite the tail off 39 pts. 11 wins, 41 goals about 1.69 ppg. So it's about 1.6-1.7ppg- that this season would have so far given us about another 4-5 pts if replicated at the base level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted December 11, 2018 Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 There is a lot of complaints about the football being dull and whilst I agree I think the key reasons are the players we've brought in and most importantly the players we've lost. Flint - Danger man in the box, big, strong, fought for everything - replaced by? No-one who is even close to matching his threat in the box Reid - Worked 100% of the time, ran into danger areas when the ball was in the box which created hell for defenders and allowed either himself or another to get space and put the ball in the net - replaced by? Weimann, not nearly as much work rate, doesn't attack those danger areas. Bryan - Technically gifted, made the simple passes that opened a game up but also got forward and threatened from deep positions pushing the opposition back - Replaced by? Kelly, probably the only like for like in terms of ability. Magnússon - The giant throw may not have led to goals but it certainly put the opposition on edge, especially with Flint in the box - Replaced by? No-one, just more backwards passing instead of using the throw in's to go forward and put pressure on. All in all, I think our lack of threat is down to players and style. When we had these players we had so much more going on in the final third, now we have a midfield who struggle to create, no throw in threat, less threat on corners and set pieces and no high work rate in the final third to create space. Realistically we need to get rid of Taylor and Weimann and bring in at least one striker who is a high work rate and very movement based striker so at the very least it'll create issues for the opposition. Right now I'd love to go up against us as a manager, we're far too easy to read. Fullbacks sit on the wingers, fill the middle of the pitch behind the ball, job done, none of our players can create anything against a team that sits deep so then we rely too heavily on set pieces. On 02/12/2018 at 17:01, Robbored said: You must agree then that GJ served up drab football - the difference is that back then he was scraping through with wins by the odd goal. LJ isn’t..... Isn't that exactly what we did in our last game? (I am just messing by the way ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted December 11, 2018 Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 32 minutes ago, Spike said: There is a lot of complaints about the football being dull and whilst I agree I think the key reasons are the players we've brought in and most importantly the players we've lost. Flint - Danger man in the box, big, strong, fought for everything - replaced by? No-one who is even close to matching his threat in the box Reid - Worked 100% of the time, ran into danger areas when the ball was in the box which created hell for defenders and allowed either himself or another to get space and put the ball in the net - replaced by? Weimann, not nearly as much work rate, doesn't attack those danger areas. Bryan - Technically gifted, made the simple passes that opened a game up but also got forward and threatened from deep positions pushing the opposition back - Replaced by? Kelly, probably the only like for like in terms of ability. Magnússon - The giant throw may not have led to goals but it certainly put the opposition on edge, especially with Flint in the box - Replaced by? No-one, just more backwards passing instead of using the throw in's to go forward and put pressure on. All in all, I think our lack of threat is down to players and style. When we had these players we had so much more going on in the final third, now we have a midfield who struggle to create, no throw in threat, less threat on corners and set pieces and no high work rate in the final third to create space. Realistically we need to get rid of Taylor and Weimann and bring in at least one striker who is a high work rate and very movement based striker so at the very least it'll create issues for the opposition. Right now I'd love to go up against us as a manager, we're far too easy to read. Fullbacks sit on the wingers, fill the middle of the pitch behind the ball, job done, none of our players can create anything against a team that sits deep so then we rely too heavily on set pieces. Isn't that exactly what we did in our last game? (I am just messing by the way ) The system has changed too- perhaps because of the personnel changes mainly. Flint- Agreed. Reid- Weimann works incredibly hard IMO, so there are similarities of style but as you say doesn't attack the danger areas. Bryan- In our golden period he played on the left in front of Magnússon. Stylistically in some respects, though it would take Eliasson out the equation so I wouldn't go with it, Kelly and Da Silva on the left would replicate that aspect to an extent. Da Silva at this time vs Bryan of last season, not as good but stylistically that with Brownhill on the right would doubtless replicate. Magnússon- Agreed on the long throw, was another club in the box. Also though playing him on the left and Wright on the right with the 4 CB's enabled a great compactness which a standard full back on the right just doesn't- we may not be able to replicate last season's late November to mid January in terms of style and for the most part results/performances, but fundamentally there are big differences tactically as well as with the personnel. Kelly on the left while a better player can also give that- but again without the 4 players you mentioned it may not be possible even if we wanted to in terms of replicating that shape, the 4-4-1-1 when IMO we played our best football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted December 11, 2018 Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: The system has changed too- perhaps because of the personnel changes mainly. Flint- Agreed. Reid- Weimann works incredibly hard IMO, so there are similarities of style but as you say doesn't attack the danger areas. Bryan- In our golden period he played on the left in front of Magnússon. Stylistically in some respects, though it would take Eliasson out the equation so I wouldn't go with it, Kelly and Da Silva on the left would replicate that aspect to an extent. Da Silva at this time vs Bryan of last season, not as good but stylistically that with Brownhill on the right would doubtless replicate. Magnússon- Agreed on the long throw, was another club in the box. Also though playing him on the left and Wright on the right with the 4 CB's enabled a great compactness which a standard full back on the right just doesn't- we may not be able to replicate last season's late November to mid January in terms of style and for the most part results/performances, but fundamentally there are big differences tactically as well as with the personnel. Kelly on the left while a better player can also give that- but again without the 4 players you mentioned it may not be possible even if we wanted to in terms of replicating that shape, the 4-4-1-1 when IMO we played our best football. I agree, the issue for me is if Johnson had a style he wanted to play then why did we not shop for players who suited it, it seems more like we've got whoever we could and then Johnson is expected to find a style that works with those players. That for me is a cause for concern, no manager who is successful manages that success by chucking together what he's got and making it work if he's doing a long-term plan as we keep getting told LJ is, instead they go out, identify the right players for that style/system and get them. Pep Guardiola is the simple example of that although he can pretty much pick and choose whoever he wants due to Man City's finances but in principle that's how you implement your style as a manager, you set out how you want to play, you train the players to understand that style and then those who cannot do it are sold and replaced by those who can. This season just appears to be square pegs in round holes all around. Weimann may have been an intended like for like replacement for Reid only with experience rather than that eye for dangerous runs so that could be accepted as unfortunate not to have paid off but the rest of our transfers and loans seem more like we've just found the "best" we can get and hoped they can adapt and when it's not been the case LJ has thrown his plans aside and started on new ones which has both frustrated the fans (as many are staying away) and caused a division between the supporters as some seem to see LJ as the right man and the others just can't understand what he is trying to do, although I'm not sure he knows himself anymore. Whatever LJ's plans are I hope in January he will be able to obtain the players we need to make his new tactics pay off because right now they are very hit and miss and it's killing any progress he made last season as the fans are splitting again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted December 11, 2018 Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 14 minutes ago, Spike said: I agree, the issue for me is if Johnson had a style he wanted to play then why did we not shop for players who suited it, it seems more like we've got whoever we could and then Johnson is expected to find a style that works with those players. That for me is a cause for concern, no manager who is successful manages that success by chucking together what he's got and making it work if he's doing a long-term plan as we keep getting told LJ is, instead they go out, identify the right players for that style/system and get them. Pep Guardiola is the simple example of that although he can pretty much pick and choose whoever he wants due to Man City's finances but in principle that's how you implement your style as a manager, you set out how you want to play, you train the players to understand that style and then those who cannot do it are sold and replaced by those who can. This season just appears to be square pegs in round holes all around. Weimann may have been an intended like for like replacement for Reid only with experience rather than that eye for dangerous runs so that could be accepted as unfortunate not to have paid off but the rest of our transfers and loans seem more like we've just found the "best" we can get and hoped they can adapt and when it's not been the case LJ has thrown his plans aside and started on new ones which has both frustrated the fans (as many are staying away) and caused a division between the supporters as some seem to see LJ as the right man and the others just can't understand what he is trying to do, although I'm not sure he knows himself anymore. Whatever LJ's plans are I hope in January he will be able to obtain the players we need to make his new tactics pay off because right now they are very hit and miss and it's killing any progress he made last season as the fans are splitting again. I think he could get more both in terms of style and cohesive gameplans- perhaps results too- than what he has this season. Why underuse Walsh for example? Him in a 3 v Stoke had us looking very decent, I'm all in favour of a bona fide 4-3-3 personally, but with Smith and Walsh injured that limits us significantly in that sense. Kalas has a reputation as a ball playing centre back, with him and Webster as a pair in a 4-3-3 that could open passing lanes IMO, get some triangles going better I do agree though that style, as in a clearly defined style, should come first and then the best you can you get those players who will fit it best. On the Kalas point, I'd suggest Webster can break out of defence more, Kalas can play the simpler passes- if you have 2 ball-playing centre backs albeit with differing styles that can progress the team mid-long term. Don't think he is getting the best from Kalas and quite a few others, though Webster progressing nicely. Weimann I think was like for like. The frustrating thing for me I guess is that we now have a good range of players, in terms of differing styles and yet LJ seems to pick tactics that don't quite mesh. Examples for me by order of position: Kalas- Clearly sound technically, could he have had more license? He's doing fine though so maybe not too much criticism warranted. Hegeler- Not suggesting he's the answer as such, but could he have been better utilised in a 3, or in a 4-1-4-1 between defence and midfield at times? Could then give Brownhill and Pack a bit more license to go forward more. Walsh in a '3' (this held when he was fit). Why the reluctance? Brownhill- On the right could enable some more central dominance as last season's excellent spell showed- but then again perhaps good in a 2. Maybe a poor example. Paterson- Play him as a bona-fide 10 behind an appropriate striker- on the books currently would be Weimann or Taylor technically, stylistically. Diedhiou- with Weimann or Paterson in and around, doesn't help him on the team I reckon. Play a 4-1-4-1 or a 4-3-3 with O'Dowda on the right and Eliasson on the left- the 3 central midfielders give that extra security, both from when/if the ball lost, bit of cover back there but also in the attacking phase the central midfielders or one of them can get up more, with that security behind or stationed in front of the back 4. At times, I question not only his willingness but also whether he even knows how to get the best out of quite a few players and therefore the team. Stubborn or just not up to it in certain respects? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted December 11, 2018 Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: I think he could get more both in terms of style and cohesive gameplans- perhaps results too- than what he has this season. Why underuse Walsh for example? Him in a 3 v Stoke had us looking very decent, I'm all in favour of a bona fide 4-3-3 personally, but with Smith and Walsh injured that limits us significantly in that sense. Kalas has a reputation as a ball playing centre back, with him and Webster as a pair in a 4-3-3 that could open passing lanes IMO, get some triangles going better I do agree though that style, as in a clearly defined style, should come first and then the best you can you get those players who will fit it best. On the Kalas point, I'd suggest Webster can break out of defence more, Kalas can play the simpler passes- if you have 2 ball-playing centre backs albeit with differing styles that can progress the team mid-long term. Don't think he is getting the best from Kalas and quite a few others, though Webster progressing nicely. Weimann I think was like for like. The frustrating thing for me I guess is that we now have a good range of players, in terms of differing styles and yet LJ seems to pick tactics that don't quite mesh. Examples for me by order of position: Kalas- Clearly sound technically, could he have had more license? He's doing fine though so maybe not too much criticism warranted. Hegeler- Not suggesting he's the answer as such, but could he have been better utilised in a 3, or in a 4-1-4-1 between defence and midfield at times? Could then give Brownhill and Pack a bit more license to go forward more. Walsh in a '3' (this held when he was fit). Why the reluctance? Brownhill- On the right could enable some more central dominance as last season's excellent spell showed- but then again perhaps good in a 2. Maybe a poor example. Paterson- Play him as a bona-fide 10 behind an appropriate striker- on the books currently would be Weimann or Taylor technically, stylistically. Diedhiou- with Weimann or Paterson in and around, doesn't help him on the team I reckon. Play a 4-1-4-1 or a 4-3-3 with O'Dowda on the right and Eliasson on the left- the 3 central midfielders give that extra security, both from when/if the ball lost, bit of cover back there but also in the attacking phase the central midfielders or one of them can get up more, with that security behind or stationed in front of the back 4. At times, I question not only his willingness but also whether he even knows how to get the best out of quite a few players and therefore the team. Stubborn or just not up to it in certain respects? I think with all of that the only thing I disagree with is playing Browhill wide, he should never be out wide as his technical game is his strength and he loses that edge when pushed up to a side line. If anything I think Brownhill is the perfect partner for a midfielder duo so long as the other is more like Smith, a worker/tackler but as you've said, our options are limited. Paterson I agree with but I just don't think we can do it because Fammy doesn't work well as a lone striker and we don't seem to be willing to drop him. This again is another reason we need a defined style of play, at the moment it's like playing Tetris but getting all the wrong pieces falling at the worst time haha. One thing is for sure, our players do not all gel well together so something needs to change, I think that change is defining a style of play and sticking with it and then selling those who don't work in the style and bringing in players who do, until then it's going to be very unstable as it has been this season so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRaw Posted December 11, 2018 Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 On 02/12/2018 at 16:14, Boston Red said: Eliasson's cross for Paterson against Ipswich down in the corner could not have happened at home. Less space, and the defenders would have crowded him out. If we are trying to break down teams who have come for a point, like Millwall, space out wide makes it much easier for the attacking side. It's not difficult. Our attacking home form should be our strength. Why are we helping the opposition? Considering the Portman Road pitch is narrower than Ashton gate, I am going to have to refute this claim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted December 11, 2018 Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Spike said: There is a lot of complaints about the football being dull Isn't that exactly what we did in our last game? (I am just messing by the way ) And that’s why I’m worried that LJ is becoming influenced by his dad.................. Win, lose or draw I’d love to see some attacking football against Norwich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted December 11, 2018 Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, Robbored said: And that’s why I’m worried that LJ is becoming influenced by his dad.................. Win, lose or draw I’d love to see some attacking football against Norwich. I don't think it has anything to do with his dad, I mean LJ was given a lot of respect and credit by the likes of Pep and Mourinho last season for doing his own thing, not his fathers, I doubt very much that his fathers words in his ear are as influential as two of the worlds most successful managers complimenting him on his own work. Honestly, if the Bristol Post has made an article saying LJ is listening to his dad and that's the reason we're playing poor football this season this forum would be insulting the Post, calling it b*ll*cks etc It's too easy to blame GJ, it's got nothing to do with him, it's more a case of LJ losing a lot of talent and struggling to find a style that suits the players he's brought in. If anything I'd say it's poor pre-season planning that's left him in this difficult position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted December 11, 2018 Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 My point is that the recent performances at AG have exactly the same as when his dad was in charge and that’s a worry as we’ve all seen LJ produce some very attractive football, especially at the start of last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted December 11, 2018 Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 On 02/12/2018 at 16:14, Boston Red said: I am not just talking about the results and the lack of goals (5 goals in 7 games). I am talking about the performances. It's because Lee Johnson shortened the pitch. He did this because he thought it would help the high press. Except we are not playing the high press anymore. So now we are stuck with a narrow pitch and six wingers in the squad. It is the inconsistency about Johnson that bugs me. If you are going to narrow the pitch for the high press, don't give up on the high press!!! Or if you do, widen the pitch again!! I’m confused....are you saying we’ve shortened the length of our pitch or narrowed the width? Or both?! Because you can’t shorten the width! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedLionLad Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 15 hours ago, Robbored said: And that’s why I’m worried that LJ is becoming influenced by his dad.................. Win, lose or draw I’d love to see some attacking football against Norwich. Jesus.......talk about obsessed. You definitely have an illness or something. You must sit there, day in, day out, looking through this forum looking for opportunities to mention (and put down) Gary Johnson. I bet you have wet dreams over Danny Wilson every night of the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 Re Long Throws.... ....Kelly has one, Brownhill has one, Pisano has one. If we are going a bit more direct, then we should be practicing these, it currently looks unplanned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted December 13, 2018 Report Share Posted December 13, 2018 On 11/12/2018 at 12:24, Robbored said: And that’s why I’m worried that LJ is becoming influenced by his dad.................. Win, lose or draw I’d love to see some attacking football against Norwich. Of course he is heavily influenced by his father. GJ was the only manager he played for, except a couple of short loans. That his father could not cope with the intelligent better quality player and especially those who were from outside of Britain is replicated by LJ. Two peas from the same pod. Adequate managers at third and fourth tier but out of their depth at Championship level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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