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Hypothetical

Davefevs

By Davefevs
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Alessandro

Alessandro

Posted
Posted

 

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

You can do the maths of 3 scenarios:

1) players bought minus players sold since LJ arrived, irrespective of whether they were here already

2) players bought by LJ minus the same players sold by LJ, e.g. Tomlin, Djuric etc - the answer is he’s lost £2.75m

3) same as 2) but you can add in Reid because LJ must take some credit even though Reid was here. 

None of the above include loan fees / fines, free transfers. 

Net spend takes no account of why they were bought, e.g. for the future (COD vs Brownhill) where you’d expect to make money anyway.

Out of interest - what is the amounts of 1 and 3? I see you put the loss in for 2 - do you have the other figures to hand?

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Bar BS3

Bar BS3

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Posted
Just now, David Brent said:

Fair enough but, as I’ve asked before, who will be our next source of transfer income? We can’t sell Bryan, Flint or Reid again yet LJ will still be backed in the transfer window, just as he was before we sold those players.

You’d think that the next big profit maker will be Kelly. 

We might make money on Webster. Might make money on Eliason. 

I’d say they are the next few. 

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Alessandro

Alessandro

Posted
Posted
Just now, David Brent said:

Fair enough but, as I’ve asked before, who will be our next source of transfer income? We can’t sell Bryan, Flint or Reid again yet LJ will still be backed in the transfer window, just as he was before we sold those players.

Imagine sellable right now are Kelly. Webster. Eliasson. Brownhill.

Who knows about the future crop, given last season Eliasson and Walsh had been written off as a duds. There are several that could come bursting through like Kelly has.

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Lrrr

Lrrr

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Posted
18 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Chelsea recalled him in January when we wanted to keep him....and loaned him to Championship Forest instead. They owed us Tammy!!!

All because of that stupid thing Sky Bet (I think) were doing for giving clubs money to put towards transfers, weren't forest under transfer embargo at the time so couldn't use it to sign someone so had to use it as a loan fee.

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Davefevs

Davefevs

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15 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

 

Out of interest - what is the amounts of 1 and 3? I see you put the loss in for 2 - do you have the other figures to hand?

3) is £6.25m profit 

1) is tonight’s task once kids in bed. Will need to put some numbers in as best guesses, e.g. Kodjia won’t be easy because of sell on profit to Angers plus not sure if have we got the £4m add-ons from Villa, I’m not sure he hit the goal target in season 1 at Villa

1 minute ago, hodge said:

All because of that stupid thing Sky Bet (I think) were doing for giving clubs money to put towards transfers, weren't forest under transfer embargo at the time so couldn't use it to sign someone so had to use it as a loan fee.

Good recall. Yes you are right. Forgot that too. 

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Red-Robbo

Red-Robbo

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4 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

We are talking a one off game

Nit much between the two sides themselves , pros and cons

Look how pumped up SC got us against Swindon

SC lost the plot for sure , but he would go in front foot and Lee would tinker to try and combat him

I’d back SC in a one off game 

I wouldn't, but then, as you say, in a one-off anything can happen

Maybe we'll beat Huddersfield. :noexp:

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Dredd

Dredd

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Posted

LJ, even prior to this summer and having to replace the three we sold, has spent vast amounts of money. 

How much do you think he’s spent? 25 mil upwards?

Now would you rather LJ or SC built a team with that money?

SL gave Cotts some money. He built a team, got us out of league one first time of asking. Maybe he is out of his depth at Championship level but he knew how to buy a player. 

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petehinton

petehinton

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Posted

to add to this - and probably a bold claim - Steve Cotterill made far better signings in his time here than LJ has, % wise. I'd say every signing he made improved us, or was a decent option at the very least. Can look at El-Abd, Tyrone Barnett, and Simon Cox were the only ones in the poor section. Maybe Hamer too.

Of the list that was put up on here of LJ's signings, there are far more in the poor section, then in the good/great section. Brownhill, Tammy, Eliasson(?), and probably Webster are the only signings that I'd argue we really need/needed in our  starting 11. 

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ZiderEyed

ZiderEyed

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8 minutes ago, petehinton said:

to add to this - and probably a bold claim - Steve Cotterill made far better signings in his time here than LJ has, % wise. I'd say every signing he made improved us, or was a decent option at the very least. Can look at El-Abd, Tyrone Barnett, and Simon Cox were the only ones in the poor section. Maybe Hamer too.

Of the list that was put up on here of LJ's signings, there are far more in the poor section, then in the good/great section. Brownhill, Tammy, Eliasson(?), and probably Webster are the only signings that I'd argue we really need/needed in our  starting 11. 

Clubs in the bag vs proven, experienced and talented.

One was backed, one wasn't.

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Lrrr

Lrrr

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8 minutes ago, petehinton said:

to add to this - and probably a bold claim - Steve Cotterill made far better signings in his time here than LJ has, % wise. I'd say every signing he made improved us, or was a decent option at the very least. Can look at El-Abd, Tyrone Barnett, and Simon Cox were the only ones in the poor section. Maybe Hamer too.

Of the list that was put up on here of LJ's signings, there are far more in the poor section, then in the good/great section. Brownhill, Tammy, Eliasson(?), and probably Webster are the only signings that I'd argue we really need/needed in our  starting 11. 

Callum Robinson was regarded very poor in his loan spell with us as well.

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petehinton

petehinton

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Just now, hodge said:

Just saying but I can't imagine LJ being let off with that reasoning

this isnt an LJ bashing by any means, just putting it out there for discussion. How many players has LJ bought, it hasnt worked out here, but they've shown to be a v good player elsewhere?

I can't imagine Cotts being let off with spending £1.8m on Engvall, spending £1.7m on Eisa but not starting him, spending loan fees spent on Kent & Diony, spending £1m on Watkins, but here we are.

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Sturny

Sturny

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25 minutes ago, petehinton said:

to add to this - and probably a bold claim - Steve Cotterill made far better signings in his time here than LJ has, % wise. I'd say every signing he made improved us, or was a decent option at the very least. Can look at El-Abd, Tyrone Barnett, and Simon Cox were the only ones in the poor section. Maybe Hamer too.

Of the list that was put up on here of LJ's signings, there are far more in the poor section, then in the good/great section. Brownhill, Tammy, Eliasson(?), and probably Webster are the only signings that I'd argue we really need/needed in our  starting 11. 

I wanna say Tomlin on loan but we all know how the permanent signing turned out... 

He also had the nuts to sign Matty Taylor. Something I'm not sure Cotterill would've done 

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petehinton

petehinton

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Posted
Just now, Sturny said:

I wanna say Tomlin on loan but we all know how the permanent signing turned out... 

He also had the nuts to sign Matty Taylor. Something I'm not sure Cotterill would've done 

Tomlin was brought in by Mark Ashton before LJ joined if memory serves rightly?

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Shtanley

Shtanley

Posted
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30 minutes ago, petehinton said:

to add to this - and probably a bold claim - Steve Cotterill made far better signings in his time here than LJ has, % wise. I'd say every signing he made improved us, or was a decent option at the very least. Can look at El-Abd, Tyrone Barnett, and Simon Cox were the only ones in the poor section. Maybe Hamer too.

Of the list that was put up on here of LJ's signings, there are far more in the poor section, then in the good/great section. Brownhill, Tammy, Eliasson(?), and probably Webster are the only signings that I'd argue we really need/needed in our  starting 11. 

Easier when you're a big dog in League One tho!

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Charlie BCFC

Charlie BCFC

Posted
Posted
17 hours ago, Davefevs said:

15/16 Cotterill

Fielding

Ayling Flint Williams (Baker)

Bennett Pack Smith Bryan

Freeman

Kodjia Wilbraham

versus

18/19 Johnson

Maenpaa

Hunt Webster Kalas Kelly

Weimann Pack Brownhill Eliasson

Paterson

Diedhiou

Who would win?  Not an easy answer. Please give it some thought though.

 

18/19 for me

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Alessandro

Alessandro

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12 minutes ago, Shtanley said:

Easier when you're a big dog in League One tho!

I think this is a massively key point overlooked here in this discussion.

There is a big difference between buying in league one vs. buying in the championship.

Our budget went much further there than it does in the championship. 

What does that mean then? Well those players listed as transfer flops here were A) Inherently more of a gamble because we’ve had to look for value for money B) and most importantly, most likely the best available to us, on our budget, who were keen and available to sign.

Just consider Hugill (£10m) and Marriott (£5m) as two examples of players we went after but got out bid for. Instead we have Famara (£5m) and Eisa (£1.5m) and everyone says they’re not good enough signings. Or are they the best we can currently do? It’s one thing identifying a player and another affording them. 

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bcfcredandwhite

bcfcredandwhite

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Posted

LJs team would stuff Cottrill’s out of site. 

Everyone knew (including LJ) that Cotts would play a 3-5-2 formation without exception and would introduce his like-for-like subs at 89 minutes even if losing 1-0 from half time  

LJ on the other hand changes formation and personnel constantly - nobody knows who is going to play in what position from one game to the next. 

Massively difficult to plan against..........

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petehinton

petehinton

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11 minutes ago, Shtanley said:

Easier when you're a big dog in League One tho!

Fair point, but these are the players signed in the window going into the Champ he had...:

Kodjia

Fredericks 

Hamer

Bennett

Moore

Robinson

Baker

For a combined cost of around £3.5m.

Compare that to Johnson's first Summer window, again in the Champ...:

Tomlin

Magnússon

Moore

Engvall

O'Dowda

Brownhill

O'Neill

Matthews

Paterson

Abraham

Lucic

For a combined cost of around around £11m.

Of the above, within Cotts transfers, i'd argue that Kodjia, Fredericks, Robinson, Baker (obv), and potentially even Moore and Bennett get into our 11/match day squad at least.

Of the above, within LJ transfers, only 3 are still with us, and only 1 of them is a 'must have' in our 11. OK we sold Tomlin and Maggy for what we bought them for, but no arguing that LJ has been trusted far far more with budget than Cotts did, on what basis..?

 

 

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