Expectations and hopes for the rest of the season.- what do we do in January..?

[BS4 on Tour...]

We’ve signed so many players ‘for the future’ - when is the future gonna become the present where those guys are concerned?! We’ve signed zillions of players.....just play them and see if they can do it....

[Silvio Dante]

22 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Always thought £1.5m was over the odds to a club like CTFC.

But from the clips and bits and pieces there is something about his finishing (little backlift and a “placer” under pressure), that thinks he has something to offer.  Although on the little evidence in a City shirt, I don’t think he could play on his own up front.

Does need minutes, and perhaps with Diedhiou’s mojo returned, minutes next to him might allow us to gauge his good he is or not.

See Dave, I agree with a lot of this - the bit I don’t is the fee being over the odds.

A comparable transfer would be Mark McNulty from Cov to Reading this year. Undisclosed but reported as £1.2m rising to £1.5m.

Similar goals to Eisa at league 2, but older, and has failed at a higher level before. Of the two, Eisa would seem to have the upside. Cov are not in a great financial position so although there is historic stature they’re not dissimilar to Cheltenham in demanding fees.

I agree that there is *something* there. I just don’t think for this season it should be for us, and I certainly don’t think we paid over the odds. I think we’ve seen the same upside though which in itself illustrates why we signed him 

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

See Dave, I agree with a lot of this - the bit I don’t is the fee being over the odds.

A comparable transfer would be Mark McNulty from Cov to Reading this year. Undisclosed but reported as £1.2m rising to £1.5m.

Similar goals to Eisa at league 2, but older, and has failed at a higher level before. Of the two, Eisa would seem to have the upside. Cov are not in a great financial position so although there is historic stature they’re not dissimilar to Cheltenham in demanding fees.

I agree that there is *something* there. I just don’t think for this season it should be for us, and I certainly don’t think we paid over the odds. I think we’ve seen the same upside though which in itself illustrates why we signed him 

Always respect your opinion SD....and good comparison too.

[Silvio Dante]

9 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

We’ve signed so many players ‘for the future’ - when is the future gonna become the present where those guys are concerned?! We’ve signed zillions of players.....just play them and see if they can do it....

I don’t think we’ve signed zillions...

I keep going back to the philosophy here - don’t spend £8m on one, spend £8m on 8. One or two may make it, the rest are collateral at a fee which is fine for where we are.

Of the players who should have been given a shot, I really believe had he been fit at the start of the season, Taylor Moore would have been in or around the squad on a match day. As it is, he’s getting a solid season at league one which is better all round. Tyreeq Bakinson - signed for £500k, tearing up league two and probably worth more while still developing.

I think where LJ is weak is when he decides to ‘keep’ a player, developing him with enough game time. But in the lens of the loans and the philosophy, it’s not actually that major an issue.

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Always respect your opinion SD....and good comparison too.

Cheers Dave, likewise.

Lets (not) get a room!

[Robbored]

18 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

.....just play them and see if they can do it....

Yeah right.................

LJ plays them with little experience and they caught out just as Vyner did.....it’s far too risky in the ultra competitive Championship.

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

I don’t think we’ve signed zillions...

I keep going back to the philosophy here - don’t spend £8m on one, spend £8m on 8. One or two may make it, the rest are collateral at a fee which is fine for where we are.

Of the players who should have been given a shot, I really believe had he been fit at the start of the season, Taylor Moore would have been in or around the squad on a match day. As it is, he’s getting a solid season at league one which is better all round. Tyreeq Bakinson - signed for £500k, tearing up league two and probably worth more while still developing.

I think where LJ is weak is when he decides to ‘keep’ a player, developing him with enough game time. But in the lens of the loans and the philosophy, it’s not actually that major an issue.

Cheers Dave, likewise.

Lets (not) get a room!

Out of interest here are the top 25 highest fees played to league two clubs.

Pretty sure Grimes, Watkins and Storey were scouted by “our” guys.

Eisa at 5, Webster at 13.

Schmeichel At 4, Vardy At 10, Hart at 15, Bennett (playing for Wolves tonight) At 22.

[BS4 on Tour...]

2 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Yeah right.................

LJ plays them with little experience and they caught out just as Vyner did.....it’s far too risky in the ultra competitive Championship.

Fine....let’s sign players and never give them a go....that’s obviously your preference....

[Silvio Dante]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Out of interest here are the top 25 highest fees played to league two clubs.

Pretty sure Grimes, Watkins and Storey were scouted by “our” guys.

Eisa at 5, Webster at 13.

Schmeichel At 4, Vardy At 10, Hart at 15, Bennett (playing for Wolves tonight) At 22.

I’m just going to take a moment to laugh at Gas legend Luke James at #24....

The two things that strike me on that list are firstly (a la McNulty, but expected), the lack of “undisclosed” fees on the list which may alter the 25. Likely to make the list more unreliable as more fees go that way

Secondly, and more noticeably, the ages. Mo is one of the 5 oldest on that list - but what he has in common with Vardy, Tubbs, Bogle is coming from non league. That again, plays to me as a punt worth taking.

And my recollection of scouting is as yours! There are a fair few good players there which suggests leagues 1/2 may be worth mining.

[Robbored]

Just now, BS4 on Tour... said:

Fine....let’s sign players and never give them a go....that’s obviously your preference....

Jeeez......you’re  hard work..........

I happen  to understand the development strategy that’s in place and for every 10 youngsters that go out on loan only about 1 will reach the required Championship standard - maybe even less than that.

Its down to the coaches to determine whether these lads have reasonable potential and Tinnion in particular spends hours on the motorways driving to watch them and liaising with the different managers.  If BT feels they could be a realistic option he feeds that back to LJ and his assistants and it goes from there,

If he listened to you and played a team full of inexperienced youngsters they’d get absolutely stuffed......

 

[BS4 on Tour...]

8 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Jeeez......you’re  hard work..........

I happen  to understand the development strategy that’s in place and for every 10 youngsters that go out on loan only about 1 will reach the required Championship standard - maybe even less than that.

Its down to the coaches to determine whether these lads have reasonable potential and Tinnion in particular spends hours on the motorways driving to watch them and liaising with the different managers.  If BT feels they could be a realistic option he feeds that back to LJ and his assistants and it goes from there,

If he listened to you and played a team full of inexperienced youngsters they’d get absolutely stuffed......

 

I’ve never said ‘play a team full of inexperienced youngsters’ - if you read above you’d see that I asked when is the present going to come for all these ‘one for the future’ players?! Do you think we should wait until they are 27 before we give them a go? And you said ‘inexperienced’ - how best do you think we can change that to ‘experienced’ ? Perhaps give some of them a game every now and then? Or just acknowledge they are inexperienced and always will be?! 

.....and I’m hard work.....dear pot, meet Mr. Kettle......

[Robbored]

3 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

I’ve never said ‘play a team full of inexperienced youngsters’ - if you read above you’d see that I asked when is the present going to come for all these ‘one for the future’ players?! Do you think we should wait until they are 27 before we give them a go? And you said ‘inexperienced’ - how best do you think we can change that to ‘experienced’ ? Perhaps give some of them a game every now and then? Or just acknowledge they are inexperienced and always will be?! 

.....and I’m hard work.....dear pot, meet Mr. Kettle......

Or just acknowledge that you don’t really get what’s involved in becoming a regular Championship player. 

I suggest you don’t comment on topics that you don’t fully grasp

[BS4 on Tour...]

7 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Or just acknowledge that you don’t really get what’s involved in becoming a regular Championship player. 

I suggest you don’t comment on topics that you don’t fully grasp

What a patronising little twerp you really are....you haven’t got a clue about football in reality....you prove it time and again...or if you think you have...what’s involved in becoming a regular championship player then? I said perhaps play some of our signings to give them experience. You disagreed with your patronising guff. So, you know best. Enlighten us forum overlord....

[BS4 on Tour...]

4 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

What a patronising little twerp you really are....you haven’t got a clue about football in reality....you prove it time and again...or if you think you have...what’s involved in becoming a regular championship player then? I said perhaps play some of our signings to give them experience. You disagreed with your patronising guff. So, you know best. Enlighten us forum overlord....

So, @Robbored - you react with a laughing emoji again...rather than answer my question to prove your superior knowledge and intellect....pathetic!

[Robbored]

3 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

What a patronising little twerp you really are....you haven’t got a clue about football in reality....you prove it time and again...or if you think you have...what’s involved in becoming a regular championship player then? Enlighten us forum overlord....

I’ve listened to Tinnion talk about Championship football many times and he sees playing plenty of men’s competive football as an absolute basic in developing as a pro footballer. The more ‘miles in kegs’ the better. Experience of pro league football is essential.

There are several promising youngsters coming thru but they all still need yet more proper men’s football even tho some are tearing up the leagues they’re playing in doesn’t mean they could do the same in the Championship.

Tinnion liaises with all coaches at AG and they’ll all be aware of how.each loanee is developing and of course LJ is involved.

14 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

So, @Robbored - you react with a laughing emoji again...rather than answer my question to prove your superior knowledge and intellect....pathetic!

Youre being impatient BS4......

[AppyDAZE]

The forum pantomime villain and happy troll....

His words.

What more do you need to know, really

[AppyDAZE]

Robbored, let's have your view on Brexit .... no, no i'm kidding

[BS4 on Tour...]

4 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I’ve listened to Tinnion talk about Championship football many times and he sees playing plenty of men’s competive football as an absolute basic in developing as a pro footballer. The more ‘miles in kegs’ the better. Experience of pro league football is essential.

There are several promising youngsters coming thru but they all still need yet more proper men’s football even tho some are tearing up the leagues they’re playing in doesn’t mean they could do the same in the Championship.

Tinnion liaises with all coaches at AG and they’ll all be aware of how.each loanee is developing and of course LJ is involved.

Youre being impatient BS4......

‘Competive’ .....’miles in kegs’ ......oh well.....I give up....

[Robbored]

9 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

’ ......oh well.....I give up....

You’ll never understand it if you give up BS4, but it is the right decision

[BS4 on Tour...]

4 minutes ago, Robbored said:

You’ll never understand it if you give up BS4, but it is the right decision

You haven’t got a clue - about football or the way it works.....you just post a load of patronising claptrap without ever answering direct questions...and when proved wrong you blame your memory most of the time...you don’t know anything about me or my experiences as a player or manager but you just choose to tell me ‘I’ll never understand it’ .....luckily, I’ve discovered the joys of the ‘ignore’ option on here...I wish you and your devoted followers on here all the best....

[AppyDAZE]

5 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

You haven’t got a clue - about football or the way it works.....you just post a load of patronising claptrap without ever answering direct questions...and when proved wrong you blame your memory most of the time...you don’t know anything about me or my experiences as a player or manager but you just choose to tell me ‘I’ll never understand it’ .....luckily, I’ve discovered the joys of the ‘ignore’ option on here...I wish you and your devoted followers on here all the best....

Walk away, BS4 and then you will be the winner. The bloke is a cretin. I mean look at that ******* annoying avatar he's had for years.. The one you seriously want to slap

[Robbored]

8 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

 .....luckily, I’ve discovered the joys of the ‘ignore’ option on here...I wish you and your devoted followers on here all the best....

At last!  that’ll save me having to advise you use the ignore option. 

Ive adivised certain others that they do the same but rather than take that advice they’ve chosen to ignore it instead.....all a bit odd really.............

[RedM]

22 hours ago, spudski said:

That's what I'm hoping for too...otherwise imo, he's seriously delusional if he thinks we are top 6 quality with this squad. We might just get lucky...but we scream mid table side.

I guess when you are in his position you have to say positive things to the public. Wouldn't look good if he said I'm happy with mid table...hardly going to sell season tickets or gain sponsorship.

All smoke and mirrors.

If we don't get a midfielder in, then imo, we are stuffed.

Korey and Walsh will take months to get match fit and sharp again. Expecting way too much from them.

Too much pressure on Pack now. We can't rely on the youngsters to make us top 6 or even mid table.

We need a signing or a good loan in midfield.

Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s a dangerous gamble to limp on, but just a gut feeling we will. We had more to lose last year and didn’t push on, I think we will be seen as ‘safe’ right now and won’t push on either.

Although LJ could argue he is now also without the Hegler option, not that we ever used him which weakens his case. I heard we are concentrating on a striker, and that Matty Taylor isn’t seen as a credible solution. Could be wrong, and just because we are concentrating most of our efforts on one it doesn’t mean we will get one or he will be the right one.

[1960maaan]

38 minutes ago, Robbored said:

At last!  that’ll save me having to advise you use the ignore option. 

Ive adivised certain others that they do the same but rather than take that advice they’ve chosen to ignore it instead.....all a bit odd really.............

You do realise,

if all the people who you have suggested they put you on ignore, actually did put you on ignore ,you would hardly have anyone to annoy .

[Robbored]

3 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

You do realise,

if all the people who you have suggested they put you on ignore, actually did put you on ignore ,you would hardly have anyone to annoy .

Of course I realise.

That’s the whole point.

[1960maaan]

11 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

I keep going back to the philosophy here - don’t spend £8m on one, spend £8m on 8. One or two may make it, the rest are collateral at a fee which is fine for where we are.

Of the players who should have been given a shot, I really believe had he been fit at the start of the season, Taylor Moore would have been in or around the squad on a match day. As it is, he’s getting a solid season at league one which is better all round. Tyreeq Bakinson - signed for £500k, tearing up league two and probably worth more while still developing.

I think where LJ is weak is when he decides to ‘keep’ a player, developing him with enough game time. But in the lens of the loans and the philosophy, it’s not actually that major an issue.

I'm still in a place where £1.5 - £2 million is a lot for us, probably because I'm old 

Taylor Moore has taken a bit longer to look like he could start, but I thought a lot of his problem when he got into the team was he tried too hard. The League football he has had will stand him in good stead, probably for next year. I think LJ did mention he would have been in the first team squad if not for injury
Bakinson looks like very good business. If I remember correctly, one of the reasons we got him was he wanted to play at academy level, from that to doing well at Newport is very good. I wonder if he could step up again in Jan.

One thing I would, slightly , disagree on. While I'm not saying we should go and spend £8m on one player, but I do think we should buy quality, if we have the budget to do it. In this window, if we can add 1 or 2 that improve the team I would say spend reasonable amounts, I think with the right 2 signings we could possibly be top 10 looking up. . If the budget isn't there, and even loans aren't cheap, then I'd be happy not to sign anyone. The other thing with loans is finding someone to step in and be good enough to improve the side in this division, few and far between.

[robin_unreliant]

With Eisa I just wonder if a loan to L1 will tell us any more about whether he can make it at this level.

Is there a big step between L2 and L1 - I'm not sure. If we stay mid-table by Feb/March would it not be an opportunity to let him play a few games to find out whether he can get goals?

I just feel a L1 loan delays the whole process. He isn't a youngster now. He's either gonna sink or swim but if he never gets chucked into the water how will we know.

[INCRED]

13 hours ago, Robbored said:

Definitely needs game time - could start against Huddersfield. That would seem like an ideal game for him.

Expecting Eisa to walk into a championship team straightaway is unrealistic and other clubs who have bought from lower league clubs give the player time to bed into the squad, coaching, pace of games, tactics, and I dare say a whole lot more. The lad obviously has talent and an instinct when in and around the penalty area but he needs to learn the art of playing at this level.

Hopefully the coaching staff have been doing what they need to do to get him in a position to step up to this level and show value in the clubs investment 

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 hours ago, RedM said:

Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s a dangerous gamble to limp on, but just a gut feeling we will. We had more to lose last year and didn’t push on, I think we will be seen as ‘safe’ right now and won’t push on either.

Although LJ could argue he is now also without the Hegeler option, not that we ever used him which weakens his case. I heard we are concentrating on a striker, and that Matty Taylor isn’t seen as a credible solution. Could be wrong, and just because we are concentrating most of our efforts on one it doesn’t mean we will get one or he will be the right one.

Might I suggest you read the accounts of BCFC Holdings the previous 3 seasons and then you'll see why we didn't roll the dice further in January.

Look at the operating losses, wage bill, transfer additions, profit on transfers- in a roundabout sort of way we did go for it.