Safe Standing Update - Now with images of AG

[redsapper]

59 minutes ago, Blagdon red said:

If the all-seater policy changes (which now seems almost certain to happen) and rail seats can be used not just as a means of providing added safety in seated areas in case fans stand, but can then be formally used as standing accommodation, then, yes, the rows in the SS are sufficiently deep to permit the creation of the required intermediate step and (if exits, concourse facilities etc. also permit this) then capacity could indeed be increased. It's certainly an opportunity that I'm sure Ashton Gate Ltd will be hoping to utilise.

This document explains more.

 

The work done to get to this point is massive. To get the government on board and to change this (stupid unsafe) law is unbelievable.

I come from the generation where the centre of the Eastend was the focal point of noise and atmosphere within the ground. Now due to season tickets people want seats behind the goal for the view but just to sit on their hands and watch the game!

If you look at the video's of the Man Utd game every person was up on their feet cheering the team on! Even the people from Sky said that night the atmosphere was special

I believe that the introduction of safe standing will change the atmosphere in the south stand (Eastend)!

[Roger Red Hat]

Please can we have some at the rear of the Dullmoan?

[Mr Popodopolous]

12 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said:

Please can we have some at the rear of the Dullmoan?

Quite agree- people like to stand up the top there, as indeed at the top of all stands. Enhances the atmosphere for one.

However, under instructions from on high I'm sure, stewards argue the toss with people to sit down- and it's not ideal for anyone.

However people have always stood at top of Dolman- as indeed they have at top of all stands. Would seem a logical next step to make it acceptable and safer.

[poland_exile]

b****ks to these rail seats and all this about 'safe standing', bring back the terraces! 

[Mr Popodopolous]

9 minutes ago, poland_exile said:

b****ks to these rail seats and all this about 'safe standing', bring back the terraces! 

I think you're doing the campaign and work a bit of a disservice.

Not specifically just by the OP and @Blagdon red so far as I know, but there has been I'd say this has been a campaign by varying bodies for nearly 2 decades.

A lot of work has gone into it by many- I honestly think this is the best we'll get for football in this sense by a Government of whatever stripe (Labour, Tory whatever)- can't see old school terraces returning well never say never but no Government would be brave enough.

[Cider_boy]

19 hours ago, phantom said:

Would imagine rugby supporters would be very keen to utilise the sections too

And I believe Premiership rugby teams are about to get a cash windfall, which they are being encouraged to spend on facilities rather than players wages:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/46626471

[Roger Red Hat]

22 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Quite agree- people like to stand up the top there, as indeed at the top of all stands. Enhances the atmosphere for one.

However, under instructions from on high I'm sure, stewards argue the toss with people to sit down- and it's not ideal for anyone.

However people have always stood at top of Dolman- as indeed they have at top of all stands. Would seem a logical next step to make it acceptable and safer.

Correct. At the moment the stewards have decided they're going to make people sit down, whereas earlier in the season it wasn't an issue.

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said:

Correct. At the moment the stewards have decided they're going to make people sit down, whereas earlier in the season it wasn't an issue.

Stewards...try safety bodies or perhaps head of security for real likely decision maker.

Individual stewards don't just decide 'Oh, I'm bored today- I'll have a row with people standing up the back'. Comes from higher I'd reckon.

[poland_exile]

4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I think you're doing the campaign and work a bit of a disservice.

Not specifically just by the OP and @Blagdon red so far as I know, but there has been I'd say this has been a campaign by varying bodies for nearly 2 decades.

A lot of work has gone into it by many- I honestly think this is the best we'll get for football in this sense by a Government of whatever stripe (Labour, Tory whatever)- can't see old school terraces returning well never say never but no Government would be brave enough.

I'm not naive enough to think terracing will return Mr. P.

My post was tongue in cheek and not a dig at those that have dedicated so much of their time and energies to the cause. Fair play to em. 

That said, I can't help but feel it's all a day late and a dollar short. Rail seats are not some silver magic bullet that will make the football experience great again. 

[Roger Red Hat]

11 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Comes from higher I'd reckon.

Yep. I fully expect it not be a problem again in a few weeks!

[Mr Popodopolous]

13 minutes ago, poland_exile said:

I'm not naive enough to think terracing will return Mr. P.

My post was tongue in cheek and not a dig at those that have dedicated so much of their time and energies to the cause. Fair play to em. 

That said, I can't help but feel it's all a day late and a dollar short. Rail seats are not some silver magic bullet that will make the football experience great again. 

Fair, I misinterpreted your post a tad.

They have actual terracing albeit modernised in the lower Leagues.

Lower attendances (in the main) help with crowd management in that regard. Yet though their heyday was before my time I went Yeovil away in 2005. Rain or not, I enjoyed it- football is watched stood up. Also went Rovers away in 2005 in a friendly- away end may well have had terraces- again good time and can see how when full it's great.

Do I think safe standing is perfect? Nope. Best we'll get and also think it could be alright in real terms- especially if it provides scope in medium term to increase capacity.

[Mr Popodopolous]

13 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said:

Yep. I fully expect it not be a problem again in a few weeks!

Wouldn't be so sure. Sensible solution would be to let it go though, to let it happen.

Our SAG appears to be quite a bit more stringent than a lot.though so who knows!!

[HitchinRed]

On 21/12/2018 at 13:29, AshtonPark said:

That won’t happen in a million years 

I bet you a million pounds it will.

If I’m wrong I’ll gladly pay you you’re winnings... if you’re still alive.

[reddoh]

On ‎22‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 14:20, HitchinRed said:

I bet you a million pounds it will.

If I’m wrong I’ll gladly pay you you’re winnings... if you’re still alive.

I will hold the winnings to pay to the winner of this bet.

[downendcity]

The FA have an uprated version of safe standing to trial at Millwall.

[Arsene's Wanger]

On 22/12/2018 at 10:40, Toffee dog said:

Would be great to see this happen, would it actually mean more people in a chosen area so increasing capacity or would it remain at its current number, or are we not at that stage to answer that?

Is it not 1.5 standing  to one seat? So if AG has say 2,000 'lockable' seats then that will allow (providing there are safe exits, stewarding, etc) 3,000 standing fans in that area. Thats my, probably misguided, understanding of it anyway.

[Mr Popodopolous]

A note on this from the Times.

Quote

Terrace trouble 
The recent spate of alleged racist or antisemitic abuse at stadiums from fans of Chelsea, Arsenal and Tottenham Hotspur could hinder attempts to introduce safe standing areas at grounds, with a number of clubs concerned that a return to terracing would make it more difficult to identify and punish supporters guilty of offensive behaviour. A government review into safe standing is scheduled to report in March, with legislation required to overturn a ban on terracing before clubs can choose to introduce standing areas, but that may take at least a year as parliamentary time is likely to be dominated by issues relating to Brexit. The Premier League and the EFL view, endorsed by the FA, is that the clubs should be able to choose themselves whether to introduce standing areas, although there are concerns that doing so would create difficulties for their security teams in identifying and banning misbehaving fans. Tottenham will have no such problems as the 7,500-capacity area of their new stadium that can be converted into safe standing would involve fans standing in front of a retracted seat, with all ticket-holders asked to remain in their allocated position.

Feared something like this may be the case with recent events...behaviour has to be very, very good by fans across the board to try to win this battle- any excuse and Government, FA etc will seize upon it and fudge the issue about this. Case of a minority causing problems for the rest. Have to be seen to be behaving very well or it will be further delayed.

[Natchfever]

I can't see City introducing this. They want to get away from the "old fashioned" standing culture and prefer an NBA happy clappy environment. Clearing out the Atyeo was a statement of intent, as was/is the limiting of S82.

If the club was actually looking at this, bearing in mind that away visitors can mingle to their hearts content in the fans village without any agro, the answer could be to stick them in the "gods" at the top of the Lansdown like happens at Newcastle and bring the Atyeo back into home ownership, making it all standing.

That wouldn't suit Mr Storr at all of course so surely won't happen.

[Tin Soldier]

8 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

I can't see City introducing this. They want to get away from the "old fashioned" standing culture and prefer an NBA happy clappy environment. Clearing out the Atyeo was a statement of intent, as was/is the limiting of S82.

If the club was actually looking at this, bearing in mind that away visitors can mingle to their hearts content in the fans village without any agro, the answer could be to stick them in the "gods" at the top of the Lansdown like happens at Newcastle and bring the Atyeo back into home ownership, making it all standing.

That wouldn't suit Mr Storr at all of course so surely won't happen.

Agree, the “Happy Clappy” atmosphere is awful at AG. Apart from the odd night game, the ground is like a library apart from S82.

Danger of another MK Dons atmosphere IMO.

[Mr Popodopolous]

9 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

I can't see City introducing this. They want to get away from the "old fashioned" standing culture and prefer an NBA happy clappy environment. Clearing out the Atyeo was a statement of intent, as was/is the limiting of S82.

If the club was actually looking at this, bearing in mind that away visitors can mingle to their hearts content in the fans village without any agro, the answer could be to stick them in the "gods" at the top of the Lansdown like happens at Newcastle and bring the Atyeo back into home ownership, making it all standing.

That wouldn't suit Mr Storr at all of course so surely won't happen.

Surely Mr Storr is only following orders, working to a blueprint from his bosses though?

FWIW, saw a post on here a while back that said that the trade association of which he's a member- FSOA (Football Safety Officers Association) are in favour of safe standing so we can't be certain.

@GasDestroyer Don't think the atmosphere is all that bad by modern Championship standards. It's not the best either though...

[Natchfever]

18 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Surely Mr Storr is only following orders, working to a blueprint from his bosses though?

FWIW, saw a post on here a while back that said that the trade association of which he's a member- FSOA (Football Safety Officers Association) are in favour of safe standing so we can't be certain.

@GasDestroyer Don't think the atmosphere is all that bad by modern Championship standards. It's not the best either though...

I think Mr Storr is highly influential Mr P, and after all he has the cv to back it up.

[Mr Popodopolous]

8 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

I think Mr Storr is highly influential Mr P, and after all he has the cv to back it up.

That's true- the club was fairly pro safe standing at one point though, we even had a demonstration of a section in the Atyeo which of course was not allowed to be applied due to the law- maybe Mr Storr has changed all that but I hope not.

Wonder why he was hired though- well yes, granted a great CV but the force he's from given our fans and them have a less than positive history is a big red flag right there surely.

I consider it a must though- not only for the sake of atmosphere and fans choice but it would also enhance safety- certainly people standing behind the top row of seats in the Dolman say, is less safe than this for sure. e.g. Row 41 is top so stand in front of seats there but then behind that...if it's implemented we need some at the top of all stands where there's demand.

[Blagdon red]

Mr Storr, like all safety officers, is only doing his job: ensuring fans' safety in the ground in accordance with current guidance and regulations. In fact, he and the rest of AGL management and even the SAG are fairly enlightened in tolerating persistent standing in the S82 area of the ground. Like all safety experts, however, I'm sure that they recognise that this practice is not as safe as it could be and, now that they are allowed to, will seek to make it safer ASAP by installing additional safety measures in that area, e.g. seats incorporating barriers. Some might argue that to continue to tolerate standing without taking such additional safety measures would be negligent.

[Mr Popodopolous]

On reflection my comments about Mr Storr were probably fairly harsh.

In respect of his past force and the history between City and said force, I'm sure that in no way reflects his views or current way he does the job. However I do wonder if he would be pro or anti safe-standing irrespective of this?

@Blagdon red Obviously the Singing Section is first place to start in terms of safe standing, but also add top row or 2 of Dolman and top row of South Stand- plenty stand and like to stand there.

[PHILINFRANCE]

2 hours ago, Blagdon red said:

Mr Storr, like all safety officers, is only doing his job: ensuring fans' safety in the ground in accordance with current guidance and regulations. In fact, he and the rest of AGL management and even the SAG are fairly enlightened in tolerating persistent standing in the S82 area of the ground. Like all safety experts, however, I'm sure that they recognise that this practice is not as safe as it could be and, now that they are allowed to, will seek to make it safer ASAP by installing additional safety measures in that area, e.g. seats incorporating barriers. Some might argue that to continue to tolerate standing without taking such additional safety measures would be negligent.

A (less than subtle) little nudge, for which you have my entire support .

[Natchfever]

3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

That's true- the club was fairly pro safe standing at one point though, we even had a demonstration of a section in the Atyeo which of course was not allowed to be applied due to the law- maybe Mr Storr has changed all that but I hope not.

Wonder why he was hired though- well yes, granted a great CV but the force he's from given our fans and them have a less than positive history is a big red flag right there surely.

I consider it a must though- not only for the sake of atmosphere and fans choice but it would also enhance safety- certainly people standing behind the top row of seats in the Dolman say, is less safe than this for sure. e.g. Row 41 is top so stand in front of seats there but then behind that...if it's implemented we need some at the top of all stands where there's demand.

Absolutely, although I wonder how the club would balance the need to charge £33 ish quid non SC holders currently with what would have to be quite a reduction to stand, when the ground is nowhere near full.

Personally, I would pay the full whack to be able to stand with my mates but I appreciate thats not everyone's situation.

[Natchfever]

2 hours ago, Blagdon red said:

Mr Storr, like all safety officers, is only doing his job: ensuring fans' safety in the ground in accordance with current guidance and regulations. In fact, he and the rest of AGL management and even the SAG are fairly enlightened in tolerating persistent standing in the S82 area of the ground. Like all safety experts, however, I'm sure that they recognise that this practice is not as safe as it could be and, now that they are allowed to, will seek to make it safer ASAP by installing additional safety measures in that area, e.g. seats incorporating barriers. Some might argue that to continue to tolerate standing without taking such additional safety measures would be negligent.

You are clearly more in the know than me Blagdon Red so fair play. Genuine question though, was it Storr or Lansdown's boy who put the kibosh on the St George flag display versus Cardiff, and isn't S82 supposed to be standing ?

[Red Skin]

I sit at the back of the south stand.   Definitely up for this.  Gotta happen surely?? 

[Kingswood Robin]

Saw some comments earlier of putting this at the back of the Dolman. To me, that stand already takes far too long to clear. I can see another 1000/1500 people at the back being quite dangerous.

When these areas have the seats down, can the barriers in front be lowered as well?

[Natchfever]

4 minutes ago, Kingswood Robin said:

Saw some comments earlier of putting this at the back of the Dolman. To me, that stand already takes far too long to clear. I can see another 1000/1500 people at the back being quite dangerous.

When these areas have the seats down, can the barriers in front be lowered as well?

To be fair I can't see it being allowed in there for the very good reason you have pointed out.