That’s Why We’re Mid-Table

[chinapig]

7 hours ago, shelts said:

He had the best players sold so yes I get it.  As a footballing product it’s decidedly average this season and we seem to be going backwards. His ultra cautious approach is self preservation 

I suspect that is exactly the point. The losing runs have become such an issue that his focus is now much more on not losing games. Understandable in a way.

I used to regard him as too gung-ho but he has now swung to the other extreme.

[Silvio Dante]

49 minutes ago, chinapig said:

I suspect that is exactly the point. The losing runs have become such an issue that his focus is now much more on not losing games. Understandable in a way.

I used to regard him as too gung-ho but he has now swung to the other extreme.

I seem to recall Danny Wilson doing exactly the same. One season we played good, attacking, expansive football and Wigan won the league grinding out 1-0’s.

Following year, the playoff year, we played a lot more cautiously to try and replicate that - and that bled into costing us success by not playing Lita against Brighton.

Sometimes, when you try not to lose, you lose all the bigger...

[Xiled]

Thoughts on today's game:

- We have no pace in the midfield or forwards. Brentford pushed very deep after we scored and we didn't get beyond them once.

- Playing the ball sideways gets us nowhere. We have nobody with a killer pass so we inevitably surrender possession.

- Kelly could be a great player one day. At present he is the most casual and error prone defender in our squad. Trying to make everything look easy but losing possession cheaply could have cost us 2 or 3 goals today.

- Weiman fooled us. His August goals were fantastic but in recent months it's hard to see what he actually does for the team. He isn't a wide player, he isn't a Championship front man and he doesn't have pace. The rest of the team know this and were holding back passes when he was the obvious or only outlet.

- Kalas, Webster and Pisano played well. Everyone else was average.

- Brentford have a decent team and could still be a strong Championhip side.

- As @Olé says above, why the hell wasn't Eliasson on the pitch before the 88th minute? I get that he might not be a regular starter or a 90 minute man but he's one of our few players with pace, he can beat defenders with tricks and he has a better chance of landing a ball on Diedhiou's head than anyone else in today's starting eleven.

The best thing about today's game? It was better than the match against Preston....just.

[Guest]

12 hours ago, JBFC II said:

The problem is, consistently quality championship players either cost more than we are willing to pay or are a lucky find... 

 SL should show more ambition and belief in his staff as said on other thread is 15-20million really a lot to pay for 2 players (striker, midfielder) when they will remain assets? unless he feels his staff are incapable of finding such players.

It will give us a sustained promo challenge, where as the buy them young and train them on (then sell them) is going to get us no-where fast.

So want to change things and show ambition/belief Steve ...give him the money to do so...don't trust him? then employ someone you do.

Anyway back to reality next window; expect any assets to be sold and a loanee or 2 with maybe a lower div signing to be brought in

[cidered abroad]

6 hours ago, Ska Junkie said:

I'm not sure I'll renew TBH OE.

I'm finding it really boring at the mo, almost a chore. Coming home today, I'm not sure I can be arsed on Saturday and after 44 years that's a concern.

I've got Ifollow on my streaming service so I might stay at home and watch it there.

Life without football? Maybe I'm reaching the stage where I should try it? I really don't enjoy going to the Gate at the mo and it's getting to me, that's genuine.

Maybe I'm just getting old. 

Completely agree. Exactly how I feel.

[Robbored]

19 minutes ago, Bri Stool City said:

 Anyway back to reality next window; expect any assets to be sold and a loanee or 2 with maybe a lower div signing to be brought in

Do you not pay atttention to LJs interviews?

He said that he doesn’t want to lose Kelly - the only real asset - but he knows that some of the big clubs are looking at him and if a ridiculous offer comes in the window then the club won’t be able to refuse.

He also said some loan deals are likely as clubs are allowed 5 loans and City have only 2 currently in Kalas and Dasilva.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Do you not pay atttention to LJs interviews? lost interest in the salesmans views years back

He said that he doesn’t want to lose Kelly - the only real asset - but he knows that some of the big clubs are looking at him and if a ridiculous offer comes in the window then the club won’t be able to refuse.

He also said some loan deals are likely as clubs are allowed 5 loans and City have only 2 currently in Kalas and Dasilva.

Exactly what I said then you can add Cod to the real asset list; re ridiculous offer...read any, and we didn't want to stand in his way.

 

[Curr Avon]

11 hours ago, hodge said:

You could also say its a results based industry, would fans really prefer losing but entertaining games?

It's a results based industry, where City have won 3 out of 12 home matches. 

[RobintheRed Red]

7 hours ago, Ska Junkie said:

I'm not sure I'll renew TBH OE.

I'm finding it really boring at the mo, almost a chore. Coming home today, I'm not sure I can be arsed on Saturday and after 44 years that's a concern.

I've got Ifollow on my streaming service so I might stay at home and watch it there.

Life without football? Maybe I'm reaching the stage where I should try it? I really don't enjoy going to the Gate at the mo and it's getting to me, that's genuine.

Maybe I'm just getting old. 

Same here i do like the socialising with my bro and mates its the ninety minutes of shit you got to put up with

[Robin Wood]

14 hours ago, Ska Junkie said:

I think it's 4-1-4-1 in all honesty.

My Lansdown might just be in for a shock come renewal time in a couple of months. People might just keep their £££ in their accounts this year rather than pay to watch that dirge we were served up today. 

Yesterday we had between a group of us 6 season tickets unused couldn't even give them away, How the hell do you get people to go Saturday after watching that crap 

[JBFC II]

1 hour ago, Bri Stool City said:

 SL should show more ambition and belief in his staff as said on other thread is 15-20million really a lot to pay for 2 players (striker, midfielder) when they will remain assets? unless he feels his staff are incapable of finding such players.

It will give us a sustained promo challenge, where as the buy them young and train them on (then sell them) is going to get us no-where fast.

So want to change things and show ambition/belief Steve ...give him the money to do so...don't trust him? then employ someone you do.

Anyway back to reality next window; expect any assets to be sold and a loanee or 2 with maybe a lower div signing to be brought in

15-20 million is a lot to pay for two players yes, both would break our transfer record and that could leave us in a perilous position if we don't go up, which personally I wouldn't want to see. 

Would it automatically give us a sustained promotion challenge? Nobody knows, it could leave us staying down and being faced with ffp, which wouldn't be so good... 

I'm sure Lansdown would love to give millions for Johnson to spend on two top championship players, but add wages, agent fees etc in and these players cost millions more than we can afford. On football manager it works but not in real life. 

And as @Robbored said, we won't be getting rid of any assets this January (unless a stupid offer comes in) and really I think the approach you're hinting is the much more sustainable one to move us forward

[JBFC II]

3 minutes ago, Robin Wood said:

Yesterday we had between a group of us 6 season tickets unused couldn't even give them away, How the hell do you get people to go Saturday after watching that crap 

If you don't want your season tickets when we're 12th in the championship, I can't imagine you must have watched us much for the past 20 years....

[Robbored]

9 minutes ago, Robin Wood said:

Yesterday we had between a group of us 6 season tickets unused couldn't even give them away, How the hell do you get people to go Saturday after watching that crap 

I’m guessing you weren’t watching City in the early 80s...............

[Bazooka Joe]

Perspective. In their last three games, dire Bolton have accumulated 3 points - the same as us.

We've just gotta go all out to win games (especially at home)  - and that can be done without being reckless.

It seems every team in a slump, comes to AG to turn their fortunes around at our expense.

 

[Robin Wood]

9 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I’m guessing you weren’t watching City in the early 80s...............

Too right I did and we knew we had nothing then but that is absolute garbage what we are watching now. We have a manager who doesn't know how to set up a team at home we will soon have far less people paying to watch that rubbish 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, JBFC II said:

15-20 million is a lot to pay for two players yes, both would break our transfer record and that could leave us in a perilous position if we don't go up, which personally I wouldn't want to see. but it may give us the edge to do so, you know like many others who continue to pass us by...taking a gamble

Would it automatically give us a sustained promotion challenge? Nobody knows, it could leave us staying down and being faced with ffp, which wouldn't be so good... its called ambition and belief, what we are lacking

I'm sure Lansdown would love to give millions for Johnson to spend on two top championship players, but add wages, agent fees etc in and these players cost millions more than we can afford. On football manager it works but not in real life. you use the money/players to push you forward and if it hits the fan you can sell them on, we are good at that.

And as @Robbored said, we won't be getting rid of any assets this January (unless a stupid offer comes in) and really I think the approach you're hinting is the much more sustainable one to move us forward

In SL realms of a 2billionare 20m aint much; and as said it would be an investment for him and inject some life into our team also we would still have those players to sell on if need be, unless he does not trust Lee and Mark to find such players.

As regards F.F.P who has had points deduction that has cost them promotion....ever?

[JBFC II]

25 minutes ago, Bri Stool City said:

In SL realms of a 2billionare 20m aint much; and as said it would be an investment for him and inject some life into our team also we would still have those players to sell on if need be, unless he does not trust Lee and Mark to find such players.

As regards F.F.P who has had points deduction that has cost them promotion....ever?

Being a multi billionaire means absolutely nothing, he can't pump millions in with a small chance of reward because that could leave us in financial peril. Its all well and good thinking life is like football manager or Fifa but unfortunately it isn't. 

Whose to say we would get promotion by spending 30 odd million on a few players? If it doesn't work we're screwed big time, and even if it did, the gamble you are talking about could still leave us ruined financially if we do get a points deduction. 

Unfortunately mate, you're living in dreamland 

[downendcity]

6 hours ago, RobintheRed Red said:

Same here i do like the socialising with my bro and mates its the ninety minutes of shit you got to put up with

That's no way to talk about socialising with your brother and mates RtRR!

 

[Alex_BCFC]

The way to go up is not gamble everything - it’s to do it the Huddersfield type way. Add good young players to good loan players to a solid squad and get a bit of luck. 

Strategy is good but concern is we may not have man to get us there in charge. Could be that LJ can’t take us any further and the football isn’t the best to watch. SL has always had patience which is a good thing - we aren’t ones of these crazy clubs that just sacks managers all the time. Stability is good generally but there will come a point where you have to question if someone can do more with what’s available. 

[cidered abroad]

5 hours ago, Robbored said:

I’m guessing you weren’t watching City in the early 80s...............

Well I was and we didn't have a shiny new stadium, a Desso billiard table for a pitch, £5 million striker.

What we did have were a squad of kids and free transfers who gave 110% every game, win lose or draw. They did their best, with TC and the board rescuing our club. For the Johnson clan to kill it slowly and horribly. No passion, no fight, was it worth all the pain in 1982 to save it? I'm beginning to wonder.

[Lack of Action Man]

19 hours ago, OddBallJim said:

I'm not going to bore you all with a full match report, but just a few thoughts based on today's viewing.

We looked lethargic, lackadaisical, and generally it appeared to me that we viewed this as a game that we would win just by showing up. By contrast, Brentford turned up and hassled and harassed us into making predictable passes, wasteful decisions, and poor mistakes. They weren't by any stretch of the imagination a great side, but they did the basics well - something that I seem to remember LJ saying he wanted from us? 

Both teams attempted to knock the ball around in periods, though Brentford looked far better at it because we stood off them by 5-10 yards every time. They, on the other hand, gave us little more than 1-2 yards space whenever we had the ball in dangerous areas. Kelly and Pack stood out for me as being particularly wasteful, even in respect of Brentford's pressing. Kelly was rightly subbed for Da Silva, having had a mare of a game in all honesty. 

Dhiedhou blew hot and cold, and to me looked as though he really needed the support of a second striker playing off him. We seemed to have more attacking intent with Matty Taylor on, who drew a lot of fouls from their clumsy challenges, but it was too little too late from LJ again. Weimann seemed a total passenger out wide in a role that I am convinced does not suit his or even the team's strengths. 

Webster was an assured presence at the back, calm with the ball at his feet - but questions surely have to be asked at how Brentford always found a man in acres of space in our 18 yard area with a free shot on goal? Their finishing was dreadful today, and a better quality of team could easily have stuck 3 or 4 past us with the chances they had. We didn't learn any lessons from the 3 chances in the first half as we allowed another unmarked player to find space in the 18 yard area and slot home for their equaliser. 

There isn't too much I can say about the other players, since they all seemed to play in a stodgy and cumbersome fashion, failing to show any real grit or determination to haul themselves into the game. Frankly, despite my head telling me that neither team really showed a convincing claim for all 3 points, my heart makes me feel as though it was 2 points dropped today. 

^My thoughts from another thread. Seemed to get positive feedback there, so adding to discussion here. All reasons (imo) why we will drift off into mid-table obscurity this season. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

11 hours ago, Olé said:

Christ, now there is a player we had not just the opportunities to sign but every advertisement for reasons to sign from our games against Walsall back in L1. 

He used to be a marauding full back, now he plays centrally, sitting at the back of the Brentford midfield and picking the passes. Very tidy and controls the pace.

On the other hand because Pep mentioned Marlon and because we have a video of LJ coaching his disguised pass, he was voted our best midfielder of the last 25 years.

Sorry to be down on him, especially when he has such dross to work with at home as no one moves, but he isn't even the best midfielder in most games at Ashton Gate.

He doesn't control the pace of the game and gives the ball away far too cheaply. I know yesterday was really error prone, but it's not as if he's having a good season.

At some point we have to get over the sentimentality with Pack. Walsh showed in a few games what we might expect from a CM actually dictating the pace and line.

Not to put it all on Marlon but I'm sick of saying he's had a bad game this year, it is far too often, maybe at some point he just isn't good enough for what we need.

As in the opening of this thread, we are an inconsistent team because our players are inconsistent - but worse than that the likes of Pack or Paterson are just very average.  

He also is a bit exposed by not playing in a bona fide '3' centrally IMO.

It weakens him, it weakens the team and it probably doesn't help a number of players.

[shelts]

On 27/12/2018 at 06:03, chinapig said:

I suspect that is exactly the point. The losing runs have become such an issue that his focus is now much more on not losing games. Understandable in a way.

I used to regard him as too gung-ho but he has now swung to the other extreme.

Totally agree