Mr Popodopolous Posted February 19 Author Report Share Posted February 19 Birmingham and their Naming Rights. https://www1.hkexnews.hk/listedco/listconews/sehk/2024/0219/2024021900810.pdf Bit more rationale, their justification for the surprisingly high base figure (albeit no specific examples of comparables listed). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 19 Author Report Share Posted February 19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonD Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Supposedly at the start of January or by mid Janaury QPR couldn't add anyone due to FFP. Dozzell loaned to Birmingham but Kelman to a lower League side, Their activity in and out..how does this stack to solve FFP exactly. We were under much harsher measures last January. Unless you know something I don't, we were not under any measures per se, we just knew where we stood with FFP and were not in a position to make any signing. Dozzell was one of the higher earners (I use the term loosely) at the club, I believe Birmingham in effect just took over the remaining few months on his contract, freeing up some funds. With regard to Begovic, he opened up a football school in the area and so was happy to come to the club at a cut down rate. We knew our what our position this season was going to be at the start of last season; if we have breached FFP by this January's windows activities we will deserve what ever punishment we get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 19 Author Report Share Posted February 19 (edited) 15 minutes ago, SimonD said: Unless you know something I don't, we were not under any measures per se, we just knew where we stood with FFP and were not in a position to make any signing. Dozzell was one of the higher earners (I use the term loosely) at the club, I believe Birmingham in effect just took over the remaining few months on his contract, freeing up some funds. With regard to Begovic, he opened up a football school in the area and so was happy to come to the club at a cut down rate. We knew our what our position this season was going to be at the start of last season; if we have breached FFP by this January's windows activities we will deserve what ever punishment we get. It just seems strange, and my finger pointing is somewhat at the EFL I'd there has been excessive leeway. Your CEO inferred no signings were possible in January. If you compare it to our position, something doesn't stack. If you look at our 2 years of near austerity and a £9-10m sale pure profit. Maybe our underlying position was worse but I am suspicious that any or all of the following may have been given more leeway than us by the EFL: *Birmingham *Bournemouth *Cardiff *Fulham *Nottingham Forest *QPR *Stoke Edited February 19 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 19 Author Report Share Posted February 19 (edited) In all honesty there are a lot of potential sinners in the bottom half, but QPR -£68m and the Fight it Fernandes crap in 2014, would relegation in 2024 be fitting? Albeit the arrogance of Birmingham and Stoke hmm. Edited February 19 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 19 Author Report Share Posted February 19 (edited) https://archive.is/2024.02.19-194751/https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/nottingham-forest-points-deduction-premier-league-rivals-2914672 Let us hope, that if they are found guilty then they get a points deduction in accordance with the breach. Edited February 19 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 20 Author Report Share Posted February 20 (edited) Have read the piece from laat year again on Loft For Words by Simon D. A good piece it was too. https://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/queensparkrangers/news/59765/on-the-edge-of-the-precipice-–-column £10m swing based on the likely improvement needed..feels sketchy in terms of attainability. I would also say, there is a £2.5m Allowable for Covid for 2021-22 handed down by the EFL for all clubs? That £10m gap would be net of new additions, be it in wages and amortisation and indeed costs of changes of manager but also before Player Sale Profits, new Income, be it sponsorship or increased gates. If you look at Birmingham v EFL the 2nd case, you will see that they had a hole of X and after new additions this rose to Y. Using quick and not too analysed maths, the underlying position form 2021-22 needs to improve by a net average £6.5-7m once the net effect of the £2.5m Allowable is rolled out. Dickie will have had a book value at time of disposal, such a sale cannot be pure profit. Unless there was an Impairment in 2022-23 but that would just bump up the loss a little that year. Johansen leaves on a free but I assume he had a book value? That's a Loss on Disposal prior to the obvious cost savings. It seems to me as if QPR have been granted leeway that we were not. The so-called austerity seems quite moderate from where I'm sitting. Edited February 20 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 20 Author Report Share Posted February 20 (edited) Not wholly convinced by QPR and some others in respect of their adherence to the rules in the correct manner...hopefully the EFL go back and investigate properly. We did it correctly, others Idk. This bit for example, smacks of the formation of an excuse. It seems weak with respect. Blaming the Covid impact upon the market is a bit rear view mirror. Tbh Dieng and Dickie did go but what gross fees of £3-4m in total? It is good but how good in the context of what should be absolute numbers.? Edited February 20 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 20 Author Report Share Posted February 20 (edited) The lack of self-awareness from some Aston Villa fans is funny too. This is funny. Decent sized to big club anyway and with a strong history, spent a fortune across varied divisions. Brentford, Brighton, Burnley pre takeover in their own way have been great models but Aston Villa?? The Grealish sale FFS masked a £90-100m pre tax loss, come on! The stadium sale and biggest tranche of HS2 masked a Loss Before Tax in their Year of Promotion of around £118m!! (Granted about £45.8m was Promotion related, triggered by it). I'll still believe it when I see it about losses of that size btw. Edited February 20 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 20 Author Report Share Posted February 20 (edited) Not that impressive in all honesty. Albeit it is hard to see where the Beale compensation is as it isn't listed as separate item? Wage Bill down £2.1m but still being around £25mish, that being the Group not the club specifically. Edited February 20 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 20 Author Report Share Posted February 20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 20 Author Report Share Posted February 20 (edited) I'd say the £10m hole is fairly nailed. Depreciation up but FFP amortised fine cost down. The alleged austerity of QPR thusfar feels less than comparable. Trending in the right direction yes but when I recall the brutal FFP induced austerity that we endured. Edited February 20 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 20 Author Report Share Posted February 20 (edited) 2 PL loanees for free is.. If some of their fans to be believed, not sure who exactly but Hayden, Hodge or perhaps both not needing any wage contributions. Edited February 20 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 20 Author Report Share Posted February 20 (edited) I don't see what is in it for the parent club(s) considering the clearly tight P&S position of both Newcastle and Wolves and that PL clubs have loan managers whose job is to turn a profit moreso there days. Edited February 20 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 20 Author Report Share Posted February 20 My reading of the £10m hole is before new additions so say.. Begovic- £5-10k per week? Less? Cook- £5-10k per week? Colback- £5-10k per week? Cannon- £5-10k per week? All free agents iirc. 4 months or so of costs.. Andersen- £5-7k per week? Frey- £5-7k per week? Loans PL clubs aren't usually exceedingly generous but 4 months apiece of whatever % for Hayden and Hodge. £10m plus additions Then you work backwards with player sales, revenue rises, player departures saving wages etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 20 Report Share Posted February 20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 20 Author Report Share Posted February 20 (edited) 6 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: My reading of the £10m hole is before new additions so say.. Begovic- £5-10k per week? Less? Cook- £5-10k per week? Colback- £5-10k per week? Cannon- £5-10k per week? All free agents iirc. 4 months or so of costs.. Andersen- £5-7k per week? Frey- £5-7k per week? Loans PL clubs aren't usually exceedingly generous but 4 months apiece of whatever % for Hayden and Hodge. £10m plus additions Then you work backwards with player sales, revenue rises, player departures saving wages etc. Forgot to add Fox to this list. Presumably too sacking Ainsworth and hiring Cifuentes was an unplanned cost. Otoh sacking Critchley plus compensation to Wycombe won't be repeated..but neither will the Beale inbound compensation. Departures of Ramsey and Hoos could save medium to long term but surely some loss of office compensation. The wage bill will be down, thanks in part also to less managerial changes but that £20m loss included a Profit on Disposal of £1m or so. QPR needing to halve their annual losses wouldn't be fanciful IMO. To post a £10m pre tax loss or less this year. Edited February 20 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 20 Author Report Share Posted February 20 (edited) Just checked too.. Beale- 3 year deal. Critchley- 3.5 year deal. Ainsworth- 3.5 year deal. The last 2 will have needed some kind of payoff, the latter compensation to Wycombe and did Cifuentes require any for his club? Either way, £20m pre tax was broadly in line with my expectations. Then again..re-read the article and it mentioned QPR leading Harlington. £1m rent saving albeit is this reflected in the Operating Costs? Not looked properly yet. Odd £1m saving?? Doesn't appear to be reflected anywhere either in the QPR Holdings Accounts thusfar. Edited February 20 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 21 Author Report Share Posted February 21 (edited) This Accountant on Loft For Words does think QPR could be over. https://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/queensparkrangers/forum/306577/financial-statements-analysis-(2023) I believe £7m is excessive but there is a new Foreign TV Deal for the EFL effective this year, can anyone elaborate? I've just checked and there isn't anything new, it's next season apparently. Edited February 21 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 21 Author Report Share Posted February 21 (edited) The original piece last February did have a bullish estimate about the loss falling by £5.5m in one year. The amount shaved from the loss was £4.33m give or take albeit that included a an increase of £0.8m in Profit on Disposal of Players. The net fall in wages is the key one, all very well someone saying "Oh x and y and z left, saving hit" but that takes no account of new additions and the costs albeit lower that they will incur. Edited February 21 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 21 Author Report Share Posted February 21 (edited) Ooh good piece on Loft For Words. https://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/queensparkrangers/news/61992/ My prediction is the net impact of Dieng and Dickie yielded £2.5-3m on Profit on Disposal. Probably closer to £3m. Just to also add, FFI constitutes the next 2 seasons, FFP in-season goes in March 1st not 31st which is FFI. Unless it has changed or thete is info which isn't in the public domain. I'm sure that is the way round though. *March 1st- Actual for last season and Projections for this to add to the actual for 2021-22. March 31st- If losses between X and Y, then the next 2 years worth of Forecast Numbers for accounts and P&S. Also has considerations for funding and solvency (not an issue for QPR). Edited February 21 by Mr Popodopolous 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 21 Author Report Share Posted February 21 (edited) Don't have time to post a load of screenshots but yes.. *1st March- Actual and Projected. **31st March- FFI, next 2 years. I would also add that clubs who miss 1st March deadline, should get an automatic points deduction in addition to anything that FFP may uncover. This is my view only. Some clubs were late with it in prior years, that should be a strict liability offence, -12 maybe. Because if you are late with it beyond a few days, that de facto pushes any possible In-Season assessment into the following Season and could be seen as a way to game the system. *If Losses exceed £15m after adjustments in 3 years. Edited February 21 by Mr Popodopolous 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 21 Report Share Posted February 21 @SimonD nice work! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 21 Author Report Share Posted February 21 Yes I forgot to tag but nice work @SimonD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 21 Author Report Share Posted February 21 (edited) This should be interesting, interview with Dalman and some P&S bits. https://roathboy.com/roathboy-x-mehmet-dalman-3/ I'm struggling to reconcile some of the numbers for Cardiff too or the possible numbers compared to how we were hemmed in. Moore went to Ipswich on £40-50k per week?? Edited February 21 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 21 Author Report Share Posted February 21 (edited) Cardiff and their position seems hard to explain, 6th highest wage bill in the division according to Dalman yet no restrictions medium term?? Their income hasn't been huge outside of Parachute Payments, they haven't sold players for major money for a while now. Are they running extremely cheaply in other areas. Some of his points don't align with each other. Edited February 21 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W-S-M Seagull Posted February 21 Report Share Posted February 21 35 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Cardiff and their position seems hard to explain, 6th highest wage bill in the division according to Dalman yet no restrictions medium term?? Their income hasn't been huge outside of Parachute Payments, they haven't sold players for major money for a while now. Are they running extremely cheaply in other areas. Some of his points don't align with each other. I've sent this to my Cardiff supporting friends and still they continue to say they believe they have no ffp concerns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 21 Author Report Share Posted February 21 13 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said: I've sent this to my Cardiff supporting friends and still they continue to say they believe they have no ffp concerns. Maybe they had a notably large payout from the Sala- RIP (Insurance) but that isn't recurring. The Accounts from last year will be instructive but at the same time, they are a year behind. They're due within a week or so. (Along with Arsenal and Associated Companies, Aston Villa and Associated Companies, Barnsley, Coventry and their parent, Wolves and their parent). Plus Birmingham HKSE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 21 Author Report Share Posted February 21 There seems to be confidence among some Nottingham Forest fans that they won't be docked... ... Albeit some of them seem to be conflating IFRS, GAAP also mentioned. However we in England/UK use FRS 102. I still don't see how you row back a Brennan Johnson sale from September 2nd 2023 to June 30th 2023. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 21 Author Report Share Posted February 21 (edited) Some other interesting but possibly misleading points on the thread: Some of the problems as I see it are: *Brennan Johnson is an Academy Product so his Book Value is zero or near as dammit. *A Revaluation Policy is one thing, but it has to be applied consistently to the same class of Assets. As far as I am aware, Nottingham Forest amortise and account for Player Registrations straight line like the rest of us..which may not even be so applicable here. *A Revaluation Policy for Player Registrations may not be possible anyway but it is very unorthodox. You can Impair and reverse this but again, it's barely material with an Academy Product. Player Valuations are wholly subjective anyway, I recall some importance being placed on the Active Market in the EFL Appeal v Derby too. Not sure you could class a Player Registration- an Intangible Asset- as an Inventory either. Edited February 21 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.