Port Said Red Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Gazred said: Can't remember which pundit/presenter said it but if a member of staff from your next opposition turned up at your training ground that week an asked to come in and watch you train, the answer is obviously no, of course not. It's clearly not acceptable behaviour in this country to spy on your opponent. No rules broken though so they won't be getting a points reduction that's for sure. Not to say the FA couldn't create a rule about this though. Hang on why did @Rudolf Hucker have to attend court for his spying then? I didn't get the full story, but heard "Womens Team" and "Showers" mentioned, so that might be it. As for Steve's opinion, I don't agree with it, but it clearly is not just his beef if 12 Chairman have signed a letter to the EFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenred Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 10 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Shaun Harvey chief exec of the EFL now on- will be talking about the Spygate case I think. He doesn’t seem too bothered about it tbf, and I can’t say I blame him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 14 minutes ago, Port Said Red said: Hang on why did @Rudolf Hucker have to attend court for his spying then? I didn't get the full story, but heard "Womens Team" and "Showers" mentioned, so that might be it. As for Steve's opinion, I don't agree with it, but it clearly is not just his beef if 12 Chairman have signed a letter to the EFL. 11 chairmen/clubs I think- but so far as I can see, the only one to break cover of the letter and call for points deductions has so far as been SL. @Robbored Ironically, legally could it hinder the inquiry? SL calling for points deductions publicly during a live investigation, given MA on the EFL board. Doesn't seem the smartest move tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, Port Said Red said: As for Steve's opinion, I don't agree with it, but it clearly is not just his beef if 12 Chairman have signed a letter to the EFL. Nor do I but the point he’s making is valid nonetheless and the EFL are still looking into the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishRed Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 59 minutes ago, Davefevs said: It is useful if you spy them practicing their starting eleven which typically is done on the day or do preceding the match In general that is what happens but even then that can change before KO. Added to that once the season gets going as a coach of the opposition you are likely to have a good idea of who might replace who if they are going to change formation say, away from home, or change personal to counter your own playing style. There are some advantages but on the whole I would say they are minimal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishRed Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 11 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: 11 chairmen/clubs I think- but so far as I can see, the only one to break cover of the letter and call for points deductions has so far as been SL. @Robbored Ironmicaly, legally could it hinder the inquiry? SL calling for points deductions publicly during a live investigation, given MA on the EFL board. Doesn't seem the smartest move tbh. There would appear to be conflict of interest there. If this does go further and I doubt it will - MA May have to take no part in any discussions on potential punishments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 1 minute ago, ScottishRed said: There would appear to be conflict of interest there. If this does go further and I doubt it will - MA May have to take no part in any discussions on potential punishments Agreed- definite likelihood of conflict of interest. Would have thought MA being sidelined on that if it reaches that stage would be a given, could even be argued purely the administrators side and no clubs reps perhaps. Not quite sure how it would work in practice though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Musicworks Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 We are little old Bristol City. Who needs our opinion when they can talk to the big clubs ? We need to fly under the radar in case our players can’t cope with a bit of pressure. Yes let’s all keep the small club mentality because the only way we can get successful is if nobody in the media talks about us or to us. Our MD is on the EFL board. Our owner is getting national headlines because of the way he has transformed the club, supported a young manager through a difficult period and not wanting to play second fiddle to the money-clubs. We are a club on the up that is at last getting accepted as challenging for the Premier League, and our owner ‘embarrasses’ us by speaking out against cheats. The only cringing going on should be on the blue side because our profile has left them consigned to be forever in our shadow. Keep it up Steve ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myol'man Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 Not going to make us too popular on our next visit to Elland Road Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 6 minutes ago, myol'man said: Not going to make us too popular on our next visit to Elland Road Who cares? I haven’t been to Elland Rd in years - probably 15 - 20 at a rough guess. It was a hostile place every time I went there and I doubt it’s any different these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted January 25, 2019 Admin Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 As with the recent Warnock / Cardiff comments, is Steve commenting as his own opinion or as a voice of Bristol City FC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 10 minutes ago, phantom said: As with the recent Warnock / Cardiff comments, is Steve commenting as his own opinion or as a voice of Bristol City FC? SL owns the club and we all know that what he says goes so no doubt at all that MA will be under orders to press for strict penalty at the next EFL board meeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 1 hour ago, redsapper said: So has Leeds gained an advantage? You but they have or why do it. They’re are top so guess they have too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 45 minutes ago, Johnny Musicworks said: We are little old Bristol City. Who needs our opinion when they can talk to the big clubs ? We need to fly under the radar in case our players can’t cope with a bit of pressure. Yes let’s all keep the small club mentality because the only way we can get successful is if nobody in the media talks about us or to us. Our MD is on the EFL board. Our owner is getting national headlines because of the way he has transformed the club, supported a young manager through a difficult period and not wanting to play second fiddle to the money-clubs. We are a club on the up that is at last getting accepted as challenging for the Premier League, and our owner ‘embarrasses’ us by speaking out against cheats. The only cringing going on should be on the blue side because our profile has left them consigned to be forever in our shadow. Keep it up Steve ! Perfect. Thanks! SL has earned the right to say what he likes. He has tried to build this club the right way! If Leeds United condone cheating that about sums them up and if someone calls them out then that’s what they deserve! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiderEyed Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 9 minutes ago, Badger08 said: The guys put more money into this club than all of us put together. Can say what he likes as far as I'm concerned. Is he not allowed an opinion because he owns a football club? Wonder what the relative percentage of his income he's put in to the club though? I'd wager a lot of long term season ticket holders have invested a significantly greater percentage of their relative income than he has. Secondly, he should think about how it reflects on us. He's going on a football show as Bristol City's owner, Steve Lansdown, not Guernsey based billionaire Steve Lansdown. There's a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 Why are people getting the knickers in a twist about what lansdown has said this will be forgotten about in a month when the next outrage bandwagon everyone wants to jump on comes along, dont like it just ignore it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natchfever Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 19 minutes ago, Badger08 said: What do you mean by us? You and I, or Bristol City as a club? At the end of the day, a club has used morally wrong techniques to gain an unfair advantage. He is condemning that. Whats the problem? I'll tell you what the problem is, its because its Steve Landsdown. How exactly does it reflect badly on us? And what harm does it do to the club? Absolute jack is the answer to that. Let me ask you this. If Leeds beat us in the playoff final, and then it came out that they'd spied on how we were going to set up etc, you would be perfectly fine with that? Nothing wrong in condemning it, its going on more than once about a points deduction, when his own CEO sits on the EFL board and may therefore be in a position to influence exactly that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 41 minutes ago, REDOXO said: Perfect. Thanks! SL has earned the right to say what he likes. He has tried to build this club the right way! If Leeds United condone cheating that about sums them up and if someone calls them out then that’s what they deserve! He has the right but that doesn't mean he has to exercise it. I don't see what is gained by commenting in public. Especially since LJ has made it pretty clear he doesn't see it as a big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, chinapig said: He has the right but that doesn't mean he has to exercise it. I don't see what is gained by commenting in public. Especially since LJ has made it pretty clear he doesn't see it as a big deal. LJ isn’t paying though SL is. SL is exercising his right to stop this from happening and making sure it doesn’t happen again...Imagine you had paid 200m for something and then someone spies to gain competitive advantage over you, you would be right pissed off...Enter SL!.... If this was industry then there would be law suits and there would very definitely have been laws broken...I’m not ruling out a law suit if the EFL don’t do enough by SLs standard....The man is pissed off enough to go on national radio! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natchfever Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 10 minutes ago, REDOXO said: LJ isn’t paying though SL is. SL is exercising his right to stop this from happening and making sure it doesn’t happen again...Imagine you had paid 200m for something and then someone spies to gain competitive advantage over you, you would be right pissed off...Enter SL!.... If this was industry then there would be law suits and there would very definitely have been laws broken...I’m not ruling out a law suit if the EFL don’t do enough by SLs standard....The man is pissed off enough to go on national radio! Law suit based on what ? Law broken ? Personal loss ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 Sorry to interrupt the bitchfest - but - does anyone actually have a transcript of the interview - or even a quote or two? All I’ve read is a load of arguing over something people think he may have said? Thanks in advance anyone who actually heard the interview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 29 minutes ago, Loon plage said: Law suit based on what ? Law broken ? Personal loss ? The point was industry has industrial espionage laws that seem not to apply here However loss of league position, revenue from various forms just for starters. This could apply to all clubs in the top half of the table. As is seen by 11 clubs signing the letter Dont get confused between criminal and civil law. If SL or anyone is minded to say that we suffered loss by the unethical actions or actions that amounted to spying of a competitor then there could be a suit We will see how far SL is wishing to push it. But right now he is pissed off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 7 minutes ago, REDOXO said: The point was industry has industrial espionage laws that seem not to apply here However loss of league position, revenue from various forms just for starters. This could apply to all clubs in the top half of the table. As is seen by 11 clubs signing the letter Dont get confused between criminal and civil law. If SL or anyone is minded to say that we suffered loss by the unethical actions or actions that amounted to spying of a competitor then there could be a suit We will see how far SL is wishing to push it. But right now he is pissed off I agree on this point, football clubs are keen to be seen as businesses these days, rather than just football clubs. If this happened in a business environment, there would be legal ramifications so perhaps the argument is that the rules need to be brought into line with the modern football environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 18 minutes ago, REDOXO said: The point was industry has industrial espionage laws that seem not to apply here However loss of league position, revenue from various forms just for starters. This could apply to all clubs in the top half of the table. As is seen by 11 clubs signing the letter Dont get confused between criminal and civil law. If SL or anyone is minded to say that we suffered loss by the unethical actions or actions that amounted to spying of a competitor then there could be a suit We will see how far SL is wishing to push it. But right now he is pissed off 8 minutes ago, Port Said Red said: I agree on this point, football clubs are keen to be seen as businesses these days, rather than just football clubs. If this happened in a business environment, there would be legal ramifications so perhaps the argument is that the rules need to be brought into line with the modern football environment. https://www.businessinsider.com/europes-lack-of-trade-secret-theft-protection-laws-means-coprorate-espionage-often-goes-unpunished-2011-8?r=US&IR=T It may have changed since Summer 2011, however I'm not so sure it has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natchfever Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, REDOXO said: The point was industry has industrial espionage laws that seem not to apply here However loss of league position, revenue from various forms just for starters. This could apply to all clubs in the top half of the table. As is seen by 11 clubs signing the letter Dont get confused between criminal and civil law. If SL or anyone is minded to say that we suffered loss by the unethical actions or actions that amounted to spying of a competitor then there could be a suit We will see how far SL is wishing to push it. But right now he is pissed off I am acquainted with civil litigation, so no confusion on my part so presumably he would have to prove that Bristol City suffered a quantifiable, actionable loss as a consequence of another party (Leeds United FC) spying on them (extent and methodology to be determined). We are not talking industrial espionage here though are we, with every teams matches subject to tv coverage and few training session conducted within secure environments Could we then possibly open the door to proceedings where officials are conned by a dive which in turn changes a result and possibly promotion to the Premier League, who does SL sue then, the player the club the referee the EFL ? Cheating on the pitch is unethical is it not ? I suggest he would be better off giving the cost of such actions to local charities as it would be far better spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 8 minutes ago, Loon plage said: I am acquainted with civil litigation, so no confusion on my part so presumably he would have to prove that Bristol City suffered a quantifiable, actionable loss as a consequence of another party (Leeds United FC) spying on them (extent and methodology to be determined). We are not talking industrial espionage here though are we, with every teams matches subject to tv coverage and few training session conducted within secure environments Could we then possibly open the door to proceedings where officials are conned by a dive which in turn changes a result and possibly promotion to the Premier League, who does SL sue then, the player the club the referee the EFL ? Cheating on the pitch is unethical is it not ? I suggest he would be better off giving the cost of such actions to local charities as it would be far better spent. Good to know! The losses are rarely quantifiable this early after something is discovered which I assume you know. The problem is multiple parties are involved all of which could suffer loss. The issue won’t be necessarily that they spied on all clubs but the loss suffered by all clubs as a result of another outcome. Point being there are multiple ways this could play out and if SL is pissed off enough when he settles down. As for things that happen on a pitch yes it has always been possibly actionable and I believe it has happened. But not a good road by any means I agree. However this is not the same thing as it did not happen on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Up The City! Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 If it was discovered that he watched our training session and gained some information that helped them beat us you would all saying something completely different! I think it's a real positive MA is on the board as no doubt under instruction from SL he will be pushing the EFL to take action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 11 minutes ago, Up The City! said: If it was discovered that he watched our training session and gained some information that helped them beat us you would all saying something completely different! I think it's a real positive MA is on the board as no doubt under instruction from SL he will be pushing the EFL to take action. Immediately would weaken a case via conflict of interest concerns. If this was SL's intent, he has played his hand too early and too openly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishRed Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Immediately would weaken a case it via conflict of interest concerns. If this was SL's intent, he has played his hand too early and too openly. Totally agree, however nothing is going to come of this at all. All wind and pxss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 1 minute ago, ScottishRed said: Totally agree, however nothing is going to come of this at all. All wind and pxss Perhaps a fairly big fine for Leeds, some sort of say 3 game touchline ban for Bielsa and a suspended points penalty subject to a new rule change? A points penalty here and now? Don't see how personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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