Millwall in trouble again

[Super]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11619225/fa-investigates-claims-millwall-fans-used-racist-language-in-song

[WelshRobin]

Footage around of fighting outside one of the stations too, including a nasty face injury from a knife.

[BTRFTG]

If there is to be a comparative discussion what's worse, us routinely chanting at the citizens in a town with a majority asian population that they're:" Just a small town in Asia," or The Wall expressing a preference to be a member of said asian community rather than having been born in Liverpool?

Both stupidly ignorant and people in glass houses........

[Spoons]

Lovely family club Millwall...haha

[archie andrews]

been singing it for years at the scouse...….is the p word racist now?

[Pezo]

1 hour ago, BTRFTG said:

If there is to be a comparative discussion what's worse, us routinely chanting at the citizens in a town with a majority asian population that they're:" Just a small town in Asia," or The Wall expressing a preference to be a member of said asian community rather than having been born in Liverpool?

Both stupidly ignorant and people in glass houses........

Why does it have to be comparative? Both are vile and shouldn't be accepted. 

You say people in glass houses but I think you mean groups, our group is ideotic and so is there's - these 2 groups have more in common with each other than they do with me, they agree philosophicaly I just support the same sports team. 

[Redinthehead]

7 minutes ago, archie andrews said:

been singing it for years at the scouse...….is the p word racist now?

When was it not 

[Kid in the Riot]

2 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

If there is to be a comparative discussion what's worse, us routinely chanting at the citizens in a town with a majority asian population that they're:" Just a small town in Asia," or The Wall expressing a preference to be a member of said asian community rather than having been born in Liverpool?

Both stupidly ignorant and people in glass houses........

I don't think we routinely sing "small town in asia". 10-15 years ago maybe

[Chairman Mao]

4 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I don't think we routinely sing "small town in asia". 10-15 years ago maybe

The only one I can remember hearing in the past decade was 'leciester's a shithole, it smells of curry'. The worst is definitely the homophobic rubbish that is chanted at Brighton which is neither clever or funny. 

[BTRFTG]

1 hour ago, Pezo said:

Why does it have to be comparative?

My point was the attribution and finger pointing remains ' Millwall' when as you correctly highlight the type of stuff our asinine idiots come up with is just as repulsive, save few bat an eyelid.

[BTRFTG]

26 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I don't think we routinely sing "small town in asia". 10-15 years ago maybe

Sadly a section of City fans still do, along with the fortnightly accusation of consanguinity and whole sections of this isle being ****holes.

[Aaron-Bcfc]

2 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Sadly a section of City fans still do, along with the fortnightly accusation of consanguinity and whole sections of this isle being ****holes.

Deary me you surely aren’t getting offended when we sing x is a shithole or when other fans sing the same about Bristol.

I remember at Oldham fans at Boundary Park a few years back replying with “Oldham’s a shithole, we already know”. There’s a set of fans that don’t take themselves too seriously unlike yourself...

[Bristol Rob]

1 hour ago, Redinthehead said:

When was it not 

TMS used to use the term often when referring to the Pakistan cricket team, with a similar tone to how we might be called 'Brits', however this stopped when the word Paki was claimed as a term of abuse.

[RedM]

20 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

TMS used to use the term often when referring to the Pakistan cricket team, with a similar tone to how we might be called 'Brits', however this stopped when the word Paki was claimed as a term of abuse.

When I was growing up it wasn’t seen as offensive, it was actually a term of endearment, affection. People would go late evening shopping at the P shop which would be open way after the ‘lazy’ Brits had gone home at 5.30p. Thank God for the P shop many parents would say as they sent their kids along the road to get groceries, fags etc. Yes kids could be sold booze etc without question to take back to their parents.

Same with the C****** (chip shop), no McDonald’s etc back in the day, take away was a rare treat ( in my house anyway) and only the Chinese had chip shops open in the evening.

When I was very, very young I embarrassed my Dad by pointing to a man and asking why he was black. He, my Dad, hit me so hard, never forgotten that, and told me he was not black but a ‘coloured gentleman’.

So much has changed. People of my parents generation, who would be well into pension age now, still use some words and phrases which would be seen as offensive now but I don’t think they generally are racist as a whole. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/8289363/millwall-racist-stadium-closure-fa-everton/

Headline more sensationalist than the story, but basically one of the options open a partial stadium closure.

[RedRock]

Wonder on what grounds legal snowflakes determine words are unacceptable or not? 

Assume, we can take offence at the term ‘Wurzel’. It’s used in degotarory way that we're thick, carrot-crunching idiots. It’s not a term of endearment.  We’re a discriminated minority. We can’t change our accents or where we were born. 

Alternatively, let’s not be precious and be proud we’re ‘Brits’ and ‘Wurzels’. Strange isn’t it, how we’ve embrace the terms, like the ‘sheep-shagging Taffs’ have. 

Had it ripped out of me for being a Wurzel with a strange accent and just learnt to give it back with interest to the Brummies. We got along just fine - playing football, at work and social situations, and thirty years after leaving the area still count many of them as great friends. 

Mind you if everyone adopted this attitude, the legal parasites and those who want to be offended on everyone else’s behalf would lead very empty lives.

[glen humphries]

4 minutes ago, RedM said:

When I was growing up it wasn’t seen as offensive, it was actually a term of endearment, affection. People would go late evening shopping at the P shop which would be open way after the ‘lazy’ Brits had gone home at 5.30p. Thank God for the P shop many parents would say as they sent their kids along the road to get groceries, fags etc. Yes kids could be sold booze etc without question to take back to their parents.

Same with the C****** (chip shop), no McDonald’s etc back in the day, take away was a rare treat ( in my house anyway) and only the Chinese had chip shops open in the evening.

When I was very, very young I embarrassed my Dad by pointing to a man and asking why he was black. He, my Dad, hit me so hard, never forgotten that, and told me he was not black but a ‘coloured gentleman’.

So much has changed. People of my parents generation, who would be well into pension age now, still use some words and phrases which would be seen as offensive now but I don’t think they generally are racist as a whole. 

Absolutely spot on regarding the older generation, my mrs grandad doesn’t see the problem calling someone the p word and he’s totally perplexed that it’s wrong

[glen humphries]

13 minutes ago, RedM said:

When I was growing up it wasn’t seen as offensive, it was actually a term of endearment, affection. People would go late evening shopping at the P shop which would be open way after the ‘lazy’ Brits had gone home at 5.30p. Thank God for the P shop many parents would say as they sent their kids along the road to get groceries, fags etc. Yes kids could be sold booze etc without question to take back to their parents.

Same with the C****** (chip shop), no McDonald’s etc back in the day, take away was a rare treat ( in my house anyway) and only the Chinese had chip shops open in the evening.

When I was very, very young I embarrassed my Dad by pointing to a man and asking why he was black. He, my Dad, hit me so hard, never forgotten that, and told me he was not black but a ‘coloured gentleman’.

So much has changed. People of my parents generation, who would be well into pension age now, still use some words and phrases which would be seen as offensive now but I don’t think they generally are racist as a whole. 

This has got me thinking, in my group of mates we have a p word mike and black Steve, they’ve been known as those names since our school days , is this considered racist??

[Littlesh*t]

1 hour ago, Chairman Mao said:

The only one I can remember hearing in the past decade was 'leciester's a shithole, it smells of curry'. The worst is definitely the homophobic rubbish that is chanted at Brighton which is neither clever or funny. 

Why is that the worst?

All club's aim abuse/banter at other clubs. Towards city "small town In wales" " I casn't read" etc not saying it's right to do it but I think sometimes people are looking for more of a story than what is actually there

[Maltshoveller]

16 minutes ago, glen humphries said:

This has got me thinking, in my group of mates we have a p word mike and black Steve, they’ve been known as those names since our school days , is this considered racist??

I bet your mates Mike and Steve see it as nothing more than banter

But there will be loads of left wing PC types offended on their behalf 

[Mr Popodopolous]

50 minutes ago, Moor2Sea said:

Wonder on what grounds legal snowflakes determine words are unacceptable or not? 

Assume, we can take offence at the term ‘Wurzel’. It’s used in degotarory way that we're thick, carrot-crunching idiots. It’s not a term of endearment.  We’re a discriminated minority. We can’t change our accents or where we were born. 

Alternatively, let’s not be precious and be proud we’re ‘Brits’ and ‘Wurzels’. Strange isn’t it, how we’ve embrace the terms, like the ‘sheep-shagging Taffs’ have. 

Had it ripped out of me for being a Wurzel with a strange accent and just learnt to give it back with interest to the Brummies. We got along just fine - playing football, at work and social situations, and thirty years after leaving the area still count many of them as great friends. 

Mind you if everyone adopted this attitude, the legal parasites and those who want to be offended on everyone else’s behalf would lead very empty lives.

There is though a key difference historically speaking between those terms and this one.

In respect of a term like 'P***' has often been used by far right, in conjunction with physical attacks, racist stuff that kind of thng. Google "P*** bashing" perhaps. So far as I can tell, Wurzel or Taff while perhaps offensive, doesn't have the same history.

Having said that, as @RedM said a lot of the older generation just use it as shorthand, considered a term of endearment that term and similar- the "P*** shop" a prime example.

On Millwall generally, these sorts of big games seem to bring out the shall we say not great elements. Would be interesting to know how many of those chanting were regular fans and how many were those who come out for the big games and yeah cause issues.

[Super]

They really are a scummy club though. Hate everything about them.

[glen humphries]

8 minutes ago, Maltshoveller said:

I bet your mates Mike and Steve see it as nothing more than banter

But there will be loads of left wing PC types offended on their behalf 

Definitely mate, to be honest I’ve never even given it a second thought until now

[Up The City!]

1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I don't think we routinely sing "small town in asia". 10-15 years ago maybe

Only cos we have no played Leicester recently. Every time we do play them these chants occur.

[Red-Robbo]

35 minutes ago, Moor2Sea said:

Wonder on what grounds legal snowflakes determine words are unacceptable or not? 

Assume, we can take offence at the term ‘Wurzel’. It’s used in degotarory way that we're thick, carrot-crunching idiots. It’s not a term of endearment.  We’re a discriminated minority. We can’t change our accents or where we were born. 

 

I guess the point is, there was not a 70s craze for Wurzel-bashing. You are not likely to be beaten up anywhere on the basis purely of a West Country accent. 

41 minutes ago, RedM said:

When I was growing up it wasn’t seen as offensive, it was actually a term of endearment, affection. People would go late evening shopping at the P shop which would be open way after the ‘lazy’ Brits had gone home at 5.30p. Thank God for the P shop many parents would say as they sent their kids along the road to get groceries, fags etc. Yes kids could be sold booze etc without question to take back to their parents.

 

Same in my life. Things do change. Just look at some 70s sitcoms! One point I'd make is that so-called P*** shops are much more likely to be run by Sikhs or East African Hindus or Jains. Most Pakistanis coming to this country in the 50s and 60s worked in manual labour - often in factories in Yorkshire and Lancashire. Indians do tend to object to being identified as Pakistanis!

30 minutes ago, glen humphries said:

This has got me thinking, in my group of mates we have a p word mike and black Steve, they’ve been known as those names since our school days , is this considered racist??

I guess if it's self-identifying it's not a problem.  Your post made me think of a dusky skinned guy of part-Asian origin I worked with years ago in Clarks. Not sure of his real name, but he was always called "Stan" for reasons that will be apparent. He never seemed to object to it.

[Maltshoveller]

2 minutes ago, glen humphries said:

Definitely mate, to be honest I’ve never even given it a second thought until now

No need to give it a second thought - They are just nick names 

as long as your mates dont take offence its fine

[Maltshoveller]

1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I don't think we routinely sing "small town in asia". 10-15 years ago maybe

Yeah singing that is so wrong

Small Asian CITY in the midlands maybe

 

[BobBobSuperBob]

People get offended at a drop on this forum and moan but this forum is a sea of intelligence compared to the neantherdal morons on Millwalls forum

Can you imagine this forum joking and laughing about a rival fans serious injuries ?

 https://millwall-forum.vitalfootball.co.uk/threads/our-sliced-everton-mate-pictures.33874/

[054123]

1 hour ago, BTRFTG said:

Sadly a section of City fans still do, along with the fortnightly accusation of consanguinity and whole sections of this isle being ****holes.

But I genuinely think Oldham is a ****hole. I don’t think that opinion is illegal yet?

[RedRock]

7 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

It's a hard one. Generally, there have been differences historically speaking between those terms and this one.

In respect of a term like 'P***' has often been used by far right, in conjunction with physical attacks, racist stuff that kind of thng. Google "P*** bashing" perhaps. So far as I can tell, Wurzel or Taff while perhaps offensive, doesn't have the same history.

Having said that, as @RedM said a lot of the older generation just use it as shorthand, considered a term of endearment that term and similar- the "P*** shop" a prime example.

On Millwall generally, these sorts of big games seem to bring out the shall we say not great elements. Would be interesting to know how many of thgose chanting were regular fans and how many were those who come out for the big games and yeah cause issues.

Thanks for a reasoned and considered response.

I’m really struggling though as parameters are constantly changing. Struth, only a couple of weeks ago some police force seemingly decided that using their term Asian was unacceptable and described a person of interest as being ‘tanned’ FFS! 

Personally, think there are far greater  issues for us to concentrate on, whether at this match the slashing of that chaps face or the fact that the MetPolice (again) seemed to be under prepared for dealing with a 100 plus scousers mauruading around Bermondsey while at the same time resourcing the protection of a load of toffs in fancy dress illegally ripping foxes to death in the Home Counties.